**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 29 02:59:58 2013 Nov 29 05:07:19 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 29 09:18:38 2013 Nov 29 11:47:14 DocScrutinizer05, Opinions? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25120727 Nov 29 11:48:05 no, why should I? Nov 29 11:50:34 opinions might have been the wrong word "what do you think about it" might be beter? Nov 29 11:51:57 "Nokia released just one handset running the software, the N9-00." o.O Nov 29 12:03:11 jolla. Nov 29 12:03:24 oh yay. another not really open device. Nov 29 12:03:42 why would i choose this thing over an android device. Nov 29 12:03:44 ? Nov 29 12:21:47 indeed Nov 29 12:22:09 why would I choose any such device with that formfactor? Nov 29 12:23:18 to me the whole thing feels like Neo9 Nov 29 12:23:26 ;-) Nov 29 12:24:05 about the neo900. Are you doing the layout? Nov 29 12:25:11 How many layers do you envision it being? Nov 29 12:25:32 who will be reviewing the gerbers prior to manufacturer? Nov 29 13:55:54 No, Nikolaus (or GolDeliCo at large) does main layout work, I'm just checking it. And i'm checking the layout in the EDA tool (Eagle), checking the gerbers is pretty impossible, almost like checking .pdf without a viewer. For us the viewer is the PCB manufacturing machine, and the editor is Eagle. The proto now has a 4 layer and a 2 layer PCB, later we will need at least one 10 layer, for CPU etc Nov 29 14:15:47 I meant you view a gerber in a gerber viewer. Nov 29 14:15:51 Layer by layer. Nov 29 14:16:58 If you are checking the layou in eagle it must be getting layed out in eagle. Nov 29 14:17:08 I useually use dxdesigner. Nov 29 14:17:19 ^usually Nov 29 14:17:23 fuck it. Nov 29 14:19:04 point is, if you wanted an extra pair of eyes to look over the layout, I can. Nov 29 14:59:56 Hi, I have a question, and hope to have an honest answer. I have an N900 (which I love, but it's getting old), and I had a OpenMoko GTA02 which I've never been able to use as my daily phone (buzz problem, unstable software, poor hardware) Nov 29 15:00:32 today, my heart is balancing between the Neo900 and the Jolla, but I have money only for one, so I have to choose Nov 29 15:01:10 jolla Nov 29 15:01:24 neo900 is a year away. Nov 29 15:01:40 vi__: thanks for the answer :) Nov 29 15:01:53 they are also not really comparable.. Nov 29 15:02:10 there is also a huge gap in price.. Nov 29 15:02:27 so.. yea. neo900 is at #neo900 btw Nov 29 15:02:43 If golden delico can pull off neo900 it could well be the 'dream device'. Nov 29 15:02:58 A peice of hardware that YOU own. Nov 29 15:03:04 ^piece. Nov 29 15:03:47 it might also help to note that the openmoko blunder had nothing to do with the people now working on the neo Nov 29 15:05:29 so I think I will buy a Jolla, hope for a HW keybord Other Half, and keep an eye on #neo900 Nov 29 15:05:30 openmoko blunder? Nov 29 15:05:35 sono: what was that? Nov 29 15:06:14 vi__: old stories Nov 29 15:06:24 i don't even know the details Nov 29 15:06:36 the idea of keeping the N900 case seems great for me, because I love this form factor Nov 29 15:07:51 it depends if they are going to use the cheesey 'spacer' bodge. Nov 29 15:08:24 what is that? i am using an n900 atm btw =) Nov 29 15:08:26 I am not sure I can accept the n900 being even fatter. Nov 29 15:08:56 Read the neo900 feasibility study for the gory details. Nov 29 15:09:17 i did, but.. i don't remeber that detail very well Nov 29 15:09:24 mhm Nov 29 16:46:31 DocScrutinizer05: earlier you told me to manually download and install i2ctools because i was trying to install the usb host mode and got this error http://pastebin.com/ULgCDLyg Nov 29 16:47:00 from where can i download the package from which is suitable for my version of os ? Nov 29 16:47:04 am new to this - can you please help Nov 29 16:52:00 i2ctools is in extras-devel http://maemo.org/packages/view/i2c-tools/ Nov 29 17:22:57 sono: Neo900 will be 2.8mm thicker than N900 - about as much as a match Nov 29 17:23:20 sono: thank you Nov 29 17:30:05 suppose i can live with that Nov 29 17:41:49 DocScrutinizer05: Neo900 is n900 + few features i think (read the website and all looks cool) bu why not provision for a dual sim ? Nov 29 17:42:38 right now thats the only feature which makes me think about ohter mobiles Nov 29 17:42:43 because the modem we currently plan to use doesn't provide this feature Nov 29 17:43:05 which is a pity Nov 29 17:43:14 since they could, hw-wise Nov 29 17:43:18 I mean - it is a feature which is now a days become very valid - Using two numbers, one for work and another for personal Nov 29 17:43:42 please understand that we can only offer what we can get Nov 29 17:43:51 i am right now carrying two phones for this purpose (with heavy heart not able to throw n900 away and purchase a dual sim smart phone) Nov 29 17:44:21 DocScrutinizer05: can i change the modem alone to a dual sim support one ? Nov 29 17:44:30 no Nov 29 17:44:35 can they customize and give me like that ? Nov 29 17:44:37 oh damn Nov 29 17:44:46 cinterion doesn't offer any dual-SIM modems Nov 29 17:45:14 then why are we going with cinterion ? Nov 29 17:45:33 because we can't get anything better that fits into Neo900 Nov 29 17:45:42 sono: i read this link that you posted and it says " Using i2cset and i2ctools may cause serious permanent HARDWARE damage to the device, use it with caution and ONLY if you know what you're doing." Nov 29 17:45:52 i mean - what kind of hardware damage ? Nov 29 17:46:07 bricking of sensors Nov 29 17:46:10 DocScrutinizer05: performance wise or dimension wise ? Nov 29 17:46:19 dimension wise Nov 29 17:47:25 initially we planned to use the Option 801 which has DSDS, but it's not available and we got the advice to look for other modem brands Nov 29 17:47:25 DocScrutinizer05: so its not safe to install i2ctools ? Nov 29 17:47:31 yes Nov 29 17:47:39 just don't mess with it Nov 29 17:47:55 yes, it's safe Nov 29 17:48:08 define messing with it please - when do i know i am crossing the line ? Nov 29 17:48:23 when you invoke it yourself ;) Nov 29 17:48:31 when you type "i2c" at beginning of a command line Nov 29 17:49:10 or when you edit the booston script that comes with H-E-N Nov 29 17:52:04 ok here http://maemo.org/packages/view/i2c-tools/ there are armel and i386 - how do i check my mobile which one should i download ? if its armel there are both devel and testing - testing is better than devel ? Nov 29 17:52:39 testing is .. testing Nov 29 17:52:45 i don't think you want to be testing Nov 29 17:52:49 as for the platform, well.. Nov 29 17:52:56 i386 is the classic PC platform Nov 29 17:53:04 arm el is for ARM processors running little endian Nov 29 17:53:11 you may take your guess ;) Nov 29 17:53:42 sono: so you are saying maemo is a PC OS ! ? Nov 29 17:53:47 oh my Nov 29 17:53:51 no.. Nov 29 17:54:01 :P pardon me with the noobish questions Nov 29 17:54:14 [23:23:03] i386 is the classic PC platform <= what do you mean by this ? Nov 29 17:54:21 just that.. Nov 29 17:54:30 intel 386 based CPUs Nov 29 17:54:41 phones today use ARM based CPUs Nov 29 17:55:03 ohh Nov 29 17:55:11 which one is better Intel or ARM ? Nov 29 17:55:15 yesw Nov 29 17:55:26 ? Nov 29 17:55:27 i think n900 is arm cortex processor Nov 29 17:55:29 yes Nov 29 17:55:32 it says so on the case Nov 29 17:57:04 :P Nov 29 17:57:12 Intel or ARM - which is good ? Nov 29 17:57:52 devel means still developers are adding code to it ? and testing means a version which developer completed has come for end user testing ? Nov 29 17:58:07 no, quite the opposite Nov 29 17:58:10 so testing is better than devel ? Nov 29 17:58:11 oh Nov 29 17:58:13 testing is developers testing thins Nov 29 17:58:23 devel is for ? Nov 29 17:58:35 devel is just tools Nov 29 18:00:22 uh no Nov 29 18:00:23 damn it Nov 29 18:00:25 devel is anything anybody provided, in testing are packages that are moved from devel to there, to get approval to move to extras Nov 29 18:00:28 i got it wrong of course Nov 29 18:00:39 sorry, i am only devoting about 5% to irc Nov 29 18:00:49 so testing is a subset of devel Nov 29 18:00:55 the repositories are described here: http://repository.maemo.org/ Nov 29 18:01:34 usually you go for extras, and when a package isn't there you get it from extras-devel Nov 29 18:01:43 if you know what you're doing Nov 29 18:02:05 in this case you do know what you're doing: you are following my advice ;-) Nov 29 18:04:09 DocScrutinizer05: if testing is subset of devel - then its more refined and safe right ? Nov 29 18:04:25 no, only extras is safe Nov 29 18:04:39 often devel has newer version than in testing Nov 29 18:04:43 next to extras is testing and finally devel ? Nov 29 18:04:43 devel is where actual work takes place Nov 29 18:04:50 testing is where we find a stable version Nov 29 18:04:55 to finally go into extras Nov 29 18:05:22 testing is for approval of quality Nov 29 18:05:23 so what i asked initially is correct - testing is much better than devel wrt stability right ? Nov 29 18:05:35 not for already quality approved apps Nov 29 18:05:51 for quality approved apps goes to extras Nov 29 18:05:54 correct ? Nov 29 18:05:56 yes Nov 29 18:05:58 I gave a neighbor access to my wlan, is there a way I can check what he's doing like which servers he's contacting? Nov 29 18:06:07 so il download i2ctools from testing now ? Nov 29 18:06:18 Win7Mac: try airodump Nov 29 18:06:24 or sth like that Nov 29 18:06:29 Win7Mac: get out of here - try the trick somewhere else Nov 29 18:07:02 DocScrutinizer05: he is got into his neighbors and asking ways to hack - and you are helping him Nov 29 18:07:04 oh my god Nov 29 18:08:12 so il download i2ctools from testing now ? Nov 29 18:08:15 Win7Mac: unless your router has a way to monitor traffic, it's not really simple Nov 29 18:08:36 otherwise you could define your own PC as gateway for the WLAN Nov 29 18:08:38 no, I dont wanna read what he is doing, just where he's going. If he does criminal stuff, I might be responsible after all, because i granted him access... Nov 29 18:08:53 so all traffic gets routed via PC and of course can get monitored Nov 29 18:09:01 Win7Mac: why give such a suspect access in the first place ? Nov 29 18:09:21 he might plant a worm in your network and get all your passwords and bank acc details Nov 29 18:09:23 he's my neighbor and a nice guy Nov 29 18:09:34 check your NAT sessions, they often are listed with far end IP Nov 29 18:09:39 Win7Mac: if hes a nice guy why suspect him ? Nov 29 18:09:45 he's a DAO, quite like me... Nov 29 18:09:53 DAO ? Nov 29 18:10:02 DAU Nov 29 18:10:08 even worse Nov 29 18:10:08 Data Access Object ? Nov 29 18:10:14 DAU ? Nov 29 18:10:39 dumbest assumable user /DAU/ Nov 29 18:10:49 (thaks ding) Nov 29 18:10:53 DocScrutinizer05: so il use the testing version of i2ctools now to manually install in my n900 ? Nov 29 18:10:55 thanks Nov 29 18:11:01 yes Nov 29 18:11:05 go ahead Nov 29 18:11:22 it's absolutely irrelevant which version you use, but you need ARM version **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 30 02:59:59 2013