**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 04 02:59:58 2013 Dec 04 06:56:46 moin Dec 04 10:03:06 who is a secure email provider that will not read all my suff like google? Dec 04 10:03:11 ^stuff Dec 04 10:03:23 you Dec 04 10:04:56 web.de maybe Dec 04 10:05:50 they MUST NOT Dec 04 10:06:58 every government will read your email Dec 04 10:07:14 if you want to know if they do want to, run your own email service Dec 04 10:08:29 also, as you connect from the UK, RIPA will get you anyway Dec 04 10:08:42 top tip , RIPA does not apply in Germany Dec 04 10:08:47 ripa = avoid uk like the plague in general. Dec 04 10:08:54 indeed Dec 04 10:09:10 but then if you live here, they just raid your home and DEMAND the key Dec 04 10:09:16 no win situation Dec 04 10:09:22 use gnupg? Dec 04 10:09:31 US is no different either, you are in contempt of court, if you dont reveal Dec 04 10:09:52 jon_y, RIPA == give key or ggo direct to jail Dec 04 10:09:53 send useless mundane mails as white noise filler Dec 04 10:10:00 do not collect £200 , do not go over go Dec 04 10:10:24 sure they can have stuff from urandom passed through a arkov bot Dec 04 10:10:29 *markov Dec 04 10:10:38 also they will extradite their own citizens outside eu etc. Dec 04 10:10:54 what is worse, we are happy to do so Dec 04 10:11:04 especially to the US Dec 04 10:11:19 did you ever hear the phone call between the FBI and the MET ? Dec 04 10:11:20 COIN needs to be a basic school subject Dec 04 10:11:38 like a bunch of good mates Dec 04 10:11:40 COIN 101: how to twart spies Dec 04 10:11:43 it should not be like that Dec 04 10:11:53 they are foreign agents Dec 04 10:12:21 I think we should repatriate anything extradition related Dec 04 10:12:34 and never extradite anyone Dec 04 10:12:40 convict them here Dec 04 10:12:40 CounterIntelligence is fun, as long as you don't loose track of who is double/tripple/disloyal Dec 04 10:13:52 LinuxCode: you're from the UK? Dec 04 10:14:01 indeed Dec 04 10:14:07 English? Dec 04 10:14:12 but I am lucky enough to speak German Dec 04 10:14:16 Yes Dec 04 10:14:33 why ? Dec 04 10:14:38 so I heard rumors of English nationalism wanting out of the UK Dec 04 10:14:44 something weird like that Dec 04 10:14:50 nationalism ?!?!? Dec 04 10:14:53 not sure if it was a joke Dec 04 10:14:54 huh ? Dec 04 10:14:55 yes Dec 04 10:15:04 whatever that means Dec 04 10:15:06 they want their own special parliment Dec 04 10:15:16 ohhh Dec 04 10:15:19 *parliament Dec 04 10:15:20 well they should have one Dec 04 10:15:22 very unlikely. Dec 04 10:15:26 scots? Dec 04 10:15:28 You might mean Scottish instead Dec 04 10:15:34 no, English Dec 04 10:15:35 the only home nation without one Dec 04 10:15:43 the Scots too wanted their own Dec 04 10:15:49 [citation needed] :) Dec 04 10:15:52 look at it as a regional parliament Dec 04 10:15:58 not "wanted". They will have an election about that soon. Dec 04 10:16:03 jon_y, the scots have their own Dec 04 10:16:17 its all england to me anyway. Dec 04 10:16:33 the independence referendum is a totally different story Dec 04 10:17:06 I'm really curious about what the local opinion is Dec 04 10:17:16 for what ? Dec 04 10:17:33 about Scottish independence Dec 04 10:17:48 not being anywhere near the UK kind of makes it hard to find out Dec 04 10:18:32 jon_y, hard to figure out what people in Scotland will do Dec 04 10:18:38 also, the referendum is a bit of a joke Dec 04 10:18:45 jaska: England is the Southern half of Britain, minus the south west, those are welsh Dec 04 10:18:49 I have Scottish neighbours, will they be able to vote ? Dec 04 10:18:50 nope Dec 04 10:19:03 who knows, they might end up being foreigners Dec 04 10:19:05 soon Dec 04 10:19:11 to Scotland itself Dec 04 10:19:12 lol Dec 04 10:19:18 how ironic that would be Dec 04 10:19:19 hmm, perhaps Scots in England don't care too much about it Dec 04 10:19:25 ohh they do Dec 04 10:19:32 most of them want the status quo Dec 04 10:19:41 wrong Dec 04 10:19:53 * andre__ gets some popcorn and watches Dec 04 10:19:59 * jon_y too Dec 04 10:20:00 jpinx_, you are telling me my neighbours are lying to me Dec 04 10:20:02 ? Dec 04 10:20:05 yes Dec 04 10:20:08 lol Dec 04 10:20:10 OOOK Dec 04 10:20:16 only speaking for themselves Dec 04 10:20:43 of course they speak for themselves Dec 04 10:20:48 who else are they going to speak for Dec 04 10:20:50 lol Dec 04 10:20:55 jaska: are you in Scotland? Dec 04 10:20:59 uh Dec 04 10:21:03 I mean jpinx Dec 04 10:21:04 "most of them " ??? Dec 04 10:21:14 (no) Dec 04 10:21:49 jpinx, it is irrelevant anyway Dec 04 10:21:55 they dont get to vote Dec 04 10:22:04 nor does the rest of the UK Dec 04 10:22:06 nothing irrelevant about scotting idependence Dec 04 10:22:19 jpinx, did I say that ? Dec 04 10:22:23 nothing irrelevant about scottish independence Dec 04 10:22:34 * LinuxCode rolls eyes Dec 04 10:22:39 irrelevant is spellchecker :/ Dec 04 10:22:52 * jpinx rolls them back Dec 04 10:23:26 if it does happen, I wonder if the naval bases will remain exclaves Dec 04 10:23:27 * jpinx wonders how long before someone screams OT :) Dec 04 10:23:28 over 70% of the english want scotland to go independant. Over 70% of the scots want independance. However the scots would not do a thing that would make 70% of the english happy. Dec 04 10:23:48 [10:23] if it does happen, I wonder if the naval bases will remain exclaves Dec 04 10:23:48 lol Dec 04 10:23:50 vi__: you have a perfect understanding :D Dec 04 10:23:51 they will move Dec 04 10:24:13 I hope Scotland becomes independent. Dec 04 10:24:15 LinuxCode: kind of hard to move entire facilities Dec 04 10:24:25 It is the only way to break the Westminister cartel. Dec 04 10:24:27 jon_y, it will happen Dec 04 10:24:30 they'll become bases of the scottish navy :) Dec 04 10:24:47 vi__, and the Scottish Parliament will be any different ? LOOL Dec 04 10:24:53 we'll be a nuclear nation in one step :) Dec 04 10:24:57 The only downside is those douchbags in the SNP hanging around. Dec 04 10:24:58 all politicians are a corrupt selfish bunch of bastards Dec 04 10:25:07 so does the British flag need to change? Dec 04 10:25:12 especially in the UK Dec 04 10:25:15 Vote for an independant socialist scotland! Dec 04 10:25:33 LinuxCode: you want tomeet a few politicans from other countries ;) Dec 04 10:25:40 I love it how the SNP promised everyone double the pension and free child care Dec 04 10:25:49 Yeah, they are full of shit. Dec 04 10:25:59 that's an insult to shit Dec 04 10:26:11 £600 for everyone! Free childcare! Rain to be replaced with beer! Dec 04 10:26:15 makes a mature adult discussion about the benefits and problems a real scenario Dec 04 10:26:17 at least it ws digested Dec 04 10:26:18 does the Queen's position stay intact? Dec 04 10:26:30 think theid retain the figurehead mascot Dec 04 10:26:35 jon_y, for 2 years yes Dec 04 10:26:37 jon_y: that would defy the point. Dec 04 10:26:40 keep Balmoral :) Dec 04 10:26:42 hell, there are other countries where shes a mascot Dec 04 10:26:45 for 2 years? Dec 04 10:26:46 then the SNP head wants himself as president Dec 04 10:26:48 I bet you Dec 04 10:27:09 douchefag salmond. Dec 04 10:27:12 because that is what politicians do Dec 04 10:27:14 Canada, Australia and NZ still has the queen as mascot Dec 04 10:27:15 hehe Dec 04 10:27:22 mascot ?!?! Dec 04 10:27:22 thats what i meant :) Dec 04 10:27:30 I cannot wait to see what wacky bullshit they come up with next. Dec 04 10:27:34 well, the royal family is usually a mascot family these days Dec 04 10:27:36 well, Head of State in formal terms Dec 04 10:27:42 Ban the internet! Because peedos. Dec 04 10:27:46 in most countries Dec 04 10:27:47 vi__, be kind of interesting to see what would happen Dec 04 10:27:58 but then again I think it would probably be a mistake Dec 04 10:28:03 Hadrians wall will be the new Scottish firewall Dec 04 10:28:03 I keep thinking about ireland Dec 04 10:28:05 It will suck ass for the first couple of years. Dec 04 10:28:11 to keep English bots out Dec 04 10:28:15 the Celtic Tiger, that got darted down Dec 04 10:28:17 lol Dec 04 10:28:28 not that the whole of the UK is doing so well Dec 04 10:28:32 IF we can get some decent leaders and not these SNP cunts. Dec 04 10:28:45 i wonder if they will continue the orwellistanian legacy of the uk if they split Dec 04 10:28:55 what off Northern Ireland? do they still want in? Dec 04 10:29:09 in to what ? Dec 04 10:29:18 in with UK Dec 04 10:29:25 if we leave the EU we are a goner anyway Dec 04 10:29:26 NI is in UK Dec 04 10:29:27 The festering crap parade that is the UK. Dec 04 10:29:32 or are they too clamoring for independence Dec 04 10:29:40 I dread that day, I make 90% of my money from there Dec 04 10:29:49 jon_y: that is what all the 'troubles' are about. Dec 04 10:29:58 jon_y: demonstrates a lack of understand of what the UK is ;) Dec 04 10:30:03 probably end up unemployed then Dec 04 10:30:08 yes, the troubles Dec 04 10:30:24 I thought it cooled down a bit after the IRA settled down Dec 04 10:30:26 LinuxCode: define "we" Dec 04 10:30:29 You know they banned the TNG episode about irish space terrorists in the UK? Dec 04 10:30:41 we == any part of the UK Dec 04 10:30:50 if the Scots vote out, they will be out of the EU Dec 04 10:30:56 not including scotland :) Dec 04 10:30:57 no two ways around it Dec 04 10:31:03 lol. Dec 04 10:31:14 so Scotland wants out, does NI want out too? Dec 04 10:31:16 why out of eu ? Dec 04 10:31:18 If you are prepared to let greece in, scotchland will be gauranteed a place. Dec 04 10:31:23 out of UK Dec 04 10:31:32 well, it would have a downside, the price of my preferred alcohol would rise. Dec 04 10:31:33 jpinx, new countries need to apply Dec 04 10:31:35 ^guaranteed Dec 04 10:31:47 jon_y: demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of UK Dec 04 10:31:59 jpinx: I want to know more Dec 04 10:32:08 jon_y, there is one referendum Dec 04 10:32:12 Scotland in out Dec 04 10:32:13 jon_y: google it ;) too long a story for in here Dec 04 10:32:23 then there is a UK referendum, if it makes it through the Lords Dec 04 10:32:28 EU in out Dec 04 10:32:31 jon_y: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty Dec 04 10:32:33 I wonder if separatism is the new in-thing now Dec 04 10:33:01 LinuxCode: we wit the irony of scotland out but negotiating contined membership of EU and England opting out :D Dec 04 10:33:28 jpinx, how ironic it would be Dec 04 10:33:34 UK out, Scotland out by default Dec 04 10:33:46 Scotland reapplies, because that is the smart thing to do Dec 04 10:33:59 still doesn't come close to the situation that is China and the UN Dec 04 10:34:04 I think it is not going to be difficult for Scotland to stay in EU Dec 04 10:34:12 I wish the tabloid press would be forced to print truths, not fiction Dec 04 10:34:19 haha Dec 04 10:34:19 that is what is wriong with this country Dec 04 10:34:29 people believe all the bullshit Dec 04 10:34:33 all press should be banned for telling lies Dec 04 10:34:33 the sun will rise from the west long before press starts printing the truth. Dec 04 10:34:39 because they cannot think for themselves Dec 04 10:34:51 thinking is not permitted Dec 04 10:35:03 jpinx, haha yeah, UK and thinking is def not permitted Dec 04 10:35:16 especially regarding anything which involves us being spied upon Dec 04 10:35:20 beaurocracy rools KO Dec 04 10:35:21 D-Notice ftw Dec 04 10:35:21 It is what happens when you grind the education system into the dust. Dec 04 10:35:37 Create a whole generation of waiters and hairdressers. Dec 04 10:35:38 vi__, that is another one of those LIES Dec 04 10:35:51 the UK education system is not much different to Germanies Dec 04 10:35:58 it is all bullshit Dec 04 10:36:02 LinuxCode: Are D-Notices really no-questions-allowed? Dec 04 10:36:05 PISA listing, is also bullshit Dec 04 10:36:09 how much is university in Germany? Dec 04 10:36:17 vi__, ? Dec 04 10:36:25 PISA listing? Dec 04 10:36:27 Unis in germany are cheaper Dec 04 10:36:36 are they like proscription lists? Dec 04 10:36:39 PISA, ratings of schools in the world Dec 04 10:36:48 go to CHina Dec 04 10:36:49 oh ok, not related Dec 04 10:36:51 which basically is irrelevant Dec 04 10:37:05 because 99.9% of students never leave their country Dec 04 10:37:13 so who are we competing with ? Dec 04 10:37:18 and why ? Dec 04 10:37:36 In china you can work a slave job in the big city and make enough to buy a home in your village. Dec 04 10:37:44 LinuxCode: are you serious? Dec 04 10:37:51 andre__, YES Dec 04 10:37:55 In the UK buying a home is...expensive. Dec 04 10:38:05 LinuxCode, because education is about slightly more than "leaving your country", maybe? Dec 04 10:38:13 We are forced to rent from a gerneration of fucks whose pensions I already pay. Dec 04 10:38:26 LinuxCode, maybe your national industry needs skillful people if you also export? "Welfare"? Dec 04 10:38:31 andre__, the comparison is rubbish Dec 04 10:38:44 Pay while I know that the same benefits will not be available by the time I roll around for retirement. Dec 04 10:38:46 oh dear this argument again Dec 04 10:38:57 comparing Germanies school system to Britain's is like comparing Apples to Pears Dec 04 10:38:59 LinuxCode: sure it is. but your argumentation is too. Dec 04 10:39:01 uni education vastly over-rated -- I know plenty of degree holders who don't know where Myanmar is Dec 04 10:39:07 although, now there it has changed to a more UK based model Dec 04 10:39:11 at least in NRW Dec 04 10:39:28 jpinx: that is bollox. Dec 04 10:39:31 andre__, I want skilled people that can fill positions here Dec 04 10:39:45 any sane person wants that Dec 04 10:39:47 LinuxCode, yeah. How is that related? Dec 04 10:39:47 I know when I played as the UK in Vicky2, I managed to bankrupted the rest of EU just by trade surplus Dec 04 10:39:54 and it came back to bite me Dec 04 10:39:55 related to what ? Dec 04 10:39:58 vi__: not bollox - I was an employer for years Dec 04 10:39:59 There is ALWAYS work for skilled, smart people. Just because your 4 year study of the history of liberal arts could not get you a job. Dec 04 10:40:09 because there were no countries able to buy my goods Dec 04 10:40:13 LinuxCode, to "99.9% of students never leave their country" Dec 04 10:40:16 and I cannot pay the welfare Dec 04 10:40:24 because they dont Dec 04 10:40:42 the point is, you cannot compare education systems Dec 04 10:40:51 because it is pointless Dec 04 10:40:53 you can compare graduates Dec 04 10:41:02 you can compare knowledge levels. Dec 04 10:41:09 jpinx, even that we could argue, some degrees in the Uk are a joke Dec 04 10:41:15 give me a chinese graduate anyday Dec 04 10:41:28 and students dont get a good education in UK unis Dec 04 10:41:34 even though we pay out of our arses Dec 04 10:41:56 most western unis courses are way to specialised now Dec 04 10:41:56 andre__, ok, so what Business Studies knowledge do Abitur students have then ? Dec 04 10:41:59 NONE Dec 04 10:42:06 Law ? None! Dec 04 10:42:08 LinuxCode, how short-sighted. Dec 04 10:42:22 You get out of uni what you put in. Dec 04 10:42:23 andre__, you cannot compare Germanies education system to the UKs Dec 04 10:42:33 FACT Dec 04 10:42:37 LinuxCode, you compare knowledge levels. Dec 04 10:42:39 I ahve been through both systems Dec 04 10:42:47 we're past comparing systems - lets compare knowledge of graduates Dec 04 10:42:48 Your shouting does not make you more right, sorry. Dec 04 10:42:49 It is an opportunity to take the next step, not a meal ticket. Dec 04 10:42:55 andre__, ok so when people say we are doing worse with Maths ? Dec 04 10:42:59 they are not comparing ? Dec 04 10:43:04 I have no idea who "we" is. Dec 04 10:43:14 UK Dec 04 10:43:19 andre__, where are you from ? Dec 04 10:43:30 I never said there is no comparing. Not sure why you write that. Dec 04 10:43:47 I said there is comparison of knowledge levels. You keep talking about comparison of school systems. Dec 04 10:44:03 school systems == education knowledge Dec 04 10:44:16 nvm the fact that germany has a 3 tier system Dec 04 10:44:20 no - education systems produce knowledge levels Dec 04 10:44:50 you can not say one system is better than another because it depends on the culture of that sociaety Dec 04 10:44:56 Hauptschul students will not have the same "knowledge base" as Abitur students Dec 04 10:45:10 jpinx, and the school system and the subjects Dec 04 10:45:14 what's up, channel needs a +q * or what? Dec 04 10:45:20 :D Dec 04 10:45:21 and the time people spend at school Dec 04 10:45:26 * jpinx ducks Dec 04 10:45:33 DocScrutinizer05, I will shut up now Dec 04 10:45:35 ;-} Dec 04 10:45:37 DocScrutinizer05: hush, its nice to read thoughts Dec 04 10:45:41 pointless to discuss anyway Dec 04 10:45:57 LinuxCode: enjoyed :) Dec 04 10:46:16 hehe Dec 04 10:46:42 more topical, any of you have a sailfish phone ? Dec 04 10:46:45 DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the entertainment platform :D Dec 04 10:47:00 and if so, do you like it Dec 04 10:47:15 I'm from a former Uk colony, the education system here tried to hard to wipe off any notion of that time Dec 04 10:47:41 the Brits? they're white and theu're evil, thats all you need to know Dec 04 10:47:47 *they're Dec 04 10:47:58 jon_y, my black friends would be insulted Dec 04 10:48:07 but we moved on ! Dec 04 10:48:15 Sailfish, nobody ? Dec 04 10:48:17 ;-| Dec 04 10:48:30 I was kind of hoping some of you would have one Dec 04 10:48:42 yeah well, this is what you get by letting uneducated ministers run the education ministry Dec 04 10:48:49 got one guy who says his mate ahs a new sailfish device, but no reports yet Dec 04 10:49:25 I was hoping to hear more of it and report back here Dec 04 10:49:41 jpinx, k ta Dec 04 10:49:49 is Sailfish GNU/Linux? Dec 04 10:50:01 emphasis on the GNU part Dec 04 10:50:04 the guys could do a better job documenting it's technical features Dec 04 10:50:13 packaging system. packages available Dec 04 10:50:16 stuff like that Dec 04 10:50:21 LOL Dec 04 10:50:22 How does one patch KDE2 under FreeBSD? Dec 04 10:50:37 andre__: wut? Dec 04 10:50:48 I serious, I need to consider if sailfish is GNU Dec 04 10:50:50 TWO? Dec 04 10:50:56 DocScrutinizer05, you missed some memes in the past. ;) Dec 04 10:51:02 or is it some HTML5 pretender Dec 04 10:51:06 * andre__ just trying to change topic to something even more offtopic Dec 04 10:51:08 there's allegedly a working developer mode, but there's no flasher, so if you need a reflash you'll have to send it back Dec 04 10:51:13 jon_y, I dont think any phone could ever be Dec 04 10:51:28 all the gsm crypto rubbish Dec 04 10:51:46 LinuxCode: can I run gcc/autotools/configure whatever on it? Dec 04 10:51:52 like I do on the desktop Dec 04 10:51:55 ShadowJK: yeah, a sad poor joke, isn't it Dec 04 10:52:10 ShadowJK, really ?!?! Dec 04 10:52:10 maemo on the n900 can, which is why I consider it GNU enough Dec 04 10:52:14 ye Dec 04 10:52:18 yes. really Dec 04 10:52:19 that is terrible Dec 04 10:52:26 indeed Dec 04 10:52:33 I do not fancy that Dec 04 10:52:36 ;-[ Dec 04 10:52:44 no flasher.. huh Dec 04 10:53:00 no flasher == no sale Dec 04 10:53:13 guess I will wait for another attempt at some phone based on linux that is not android Dec 04 10:53:18 well, they were already excluded by the lack of a suitable input device. Dec 04 10:53:35 LinuxCode: most importantly, GNU enough Dec 04 10:53:51 don't want a BSD userland where it is a pain to build existing software Dec 04 10:53:55 jon_y, well, as I said, if you want gsm, you are stuffed Dec 04 10:54:25 even though a5x is totally broken Dec 04 10:54:39 LinuxCode: I don't mind proprietary bits Dec 04 10:55:09 the important part is that it is able to function well enough to GNU standards in the userland Dec 04 10:55:39 n900 is pretty alright even though the proprietary bits are there Dec 04 10:58:13 jon_y, I have no idea what they are up to Dec 04 10:58:21 why I was asking here Dec 04 10:59:04 the question is not if I can make RMS happy, I don't care. The question is if I can use my knowledge, gather new *useful* knowledge, and do/achieve what I want Dec 04 10:59:12 I hope one day, mobile hardware will just be a device like a pc mainboard Dec 04 10:59:37 do I want to mess with GSM stack? HELL NO! Dec 04 10:59:44 DocScrutinizer05, heheh Dec 04 11:01:19 look, i'm using HDD since err 30 years now. I *never* thought about messing with the firmware in there Dec 04 11:01:57 as long as the damn thing works and speaks proper protocol at interface Dec 04 11:02:03 You had an HDD in 1985? Dec 04 11:02:19 I *used* Dec 04 11:02:19 500K and big as a fridge? Dec 04 11:02:24 yes Dec 04 11:03:34 well, actually back then they already had 50MB and were only 25kg and size of two or 3 shoe boxes Dec 04 11:04:27 except for the 10MB *swappable* dis stacks called "pot" Dec 04 11:05:22 those were really units size of a huge fridge Dec 04 11:05:36 speaking of messing with hdd firmware.. someone booted a mmuless linux kernel on a hdd controller Dec 04 11:05:45 there was a guy that made liux run on his HD's arm cpus Dec 04 11:05:50 yeah Dec 04 11:05:52 that same Dec 04 11:06:08 hello Dec 04 11:06:10 I know Dec 04 11:06:26 far worse, somebody could putexploit code on there and hide it, then it reinfests your machine Dec 04 11:06:40 even though you reinstalled the machine Dec 04 11:06:46 it would just keep coming back Dec 04 11:06:51 yes, if somebody has access to your HDD to put it there Dec 04 11:06:53 until you flash the HD firmware Dec 04 11:07:26 they should put a write protect jumper on drives Dec 04 11:07:46 actually a good idea Dec 04 11:07:55 Or in the mobile phone hidden inside qualcomm chip. Dec 04 11:08:04 for modem however... you ever booted from your modem? Dec 04 11:09:13 thus I don't give a xxx about the GSM "firmware" Dec 04 11:09:30 DocScrutinizer05, yeah Dec 04 11:09:37 just an api to something be good Dec 04 11:09:47 then we could all install our distribution of choice Dec 04 11:09:51 it's way less concerning to me than for example the firmware on the uSD card embedded flash controller Dec 04 11:09:57 and use it how we use our pcs Dec 04 11:10:11 grr; or in the n900 modem :) (it's capable of running an entire symbian phone on its own) Dec 04 11:10:43 yes Dec 04 11:10:59 I iwsh they would scrap a5/1 and a5/3 for a pki based system Dec 04 11:11:06 Neo900 will have a master off switch Dec 04 11:11:09 for modem Dec 04 11:11:15 cool Dec 04 11:11:18 Neo900 ? Dec 04 11:11:23 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Dec 04 11:11:33 Neo900! Dec 04 11:11:36 matrix new n900 version ofc Dec 04 11:11:52 dark glasses Dec 04 11:11:54 interesting Dec 04 11:11:56 version Dec 04 11:12:00 DocScrutinizer05, cheers for that! Dec 04 11:12:06 * LinuxCode bookmarks Dec 04 11:12:24 bookmark DAT: neo900.org Dec 04 11:13:07 and spread the word Dec 04 11:13:22 neo is the hero spread that Dec 04 11:13:26 the fact you didn't hear of it yet shows the need to do so Dec 04 11:13:59 we're still short of 787 "preorders" Dec 04 11:14:14 DocScrutinizer05, I shamefully must admit, I have not kept track of much mobile-ish lately Dec 04 11:14:21 http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone Dec 04 11:14:26 agent smith900 is still building it self? Dec 04 11:14:41 grr: please bin that crap Dec 04 11:14:42 but a mate of mine is looking to upgrade his N900 Dec 04 11:14:45 I will let him know Dec 04 11:14:49 grr: it's ridiculous Dec 04 11:14:56 also, I would slowly like to upgrade myself too Dec 04 11:15:15 smith900 is not ridicoulus Dec 04 11:16:17 even a complete symbian running on N900's BB5 modem couldn't do any harm to your local data and linux system at large Dec 04 11:16:33 not even just spy your data Dec 04 11:17:08 I wait for smith900 version Dec 04 11:17:21 what it could do: same like a featurephone (with GPS) in your other pocket Dec 04 11:17:27 what about android phones? Dec 04 11:17:59 I suppose droid is more possible and compatible Dec 04 11:18:09 DocScrutinizer05, you should write a blog on mobile security stuff Dec 04 11:18:26 you have a wealth of information Dec 04 11:18:48 which would be very beneficial to the greater community Dec 04 11:18:52 so what? all MINE! ;-P Dec 04 11:19:33 doc|home: I admit I haven't read the whole wiki, but can you tell me if the neo900 is going to be something I can screw into my old n900 case? Dec 04 11:19:49 DocScrutinizer05: ^^ Dec 04 11:20:26 * jpinx is in the throes of choosing a new android replacement for the n900 Dec 04 11:20:43 jpinx, MEH Dec 04 11:21:03 I used my old P800 for 6 years Dec 04 11:21:17 I will ruff it out with the N900 Dec 04 11:21:23 until something comes along Dec 04 11:22:29 I got a cheep'n'cheerful chinese android tablet to learn android. Al I learnt was that I don't like it :( Dec 04 11:23:36 jpinx: http://neo900.org/faq#complete Dec 04 11:26:18 jpinx: http://neo900.org/#about Dec 04 11:30:39 DocScrutinizer05: thanks :) At last an update and a home for my spare n900 :D Dec 04 11:31:09 yw Dec 04 11:31:55 we need another 787 supporters who demonstrate they're willing to order a unit, by donating 100+EUR Dec 04 11:32:14 we need those to make stuff cheaper and better Dec 04 11:32:35 we already reached minimum to make sure we can *build* the thing Dec 04 11:33:02 well, I'm redundant, it's all on the website, really Dec 04 11:35:28 reading..... Dec 04 11:36:03 and still you can be part of the very exciting initial project phase where you can actually *change* things by your comments and suggestions Dec 04 11:37:45 your brilliant idea might make the difference Dec 04 11:37:50 I'm still a bit wondering about how the additional 2mm in height will look like :/ Dec 04 11:38:08 (I saw the pic in the FAQ) Dec 04 11:38:09 at very least you'll understand why every single bit looks the way it does Dec 04 11:38:12 DocScrutinizer05: FairPhone ? www.fairphone.com Dec 04 11:38:32 a hoax Dec 04 11:38:54 it's also using "unfair2 chips, since there are no other ones Dec 04 11:40:14 k Dec 04 11:40:28 actually afaik they build a pretty uninspired and annoying featurephone design built from "toxic" chips and assembled in some european country like Neo900 into a 2green" case made of recycled plastic Dec 04 11:40:29 rofl fairfone Dec 04 11:41:10 or sth like that Dec 04 11:41:27 it's so boring I never bothered to watch the site a second time Dec 04 11:42:33 sure, they don't assemble the PCB at foxcon_china, like apple does, but so do we: we build the Neo900 in Bavaria Dec 04 11:42:58 yay germany Dec 04 11:43:33 neo900: the finest phone of the alps Dec 04 11:43:53 we use german modem module (cinterion [== siemens]) Dec 04 11:44:10 the finest modem module of the alps! Dec 04 11:44:42 a citreon??? Dec 04 11:44:50 lol Dec 04 11:44:52 That is a french modem. Dec 04 11:45:01 With dodgy electrics and crazy suspension. Dec 04 11:45:17 check your spelling, that's Citroen Dec 04 11:45:29 ;-P Dec 04 11:45:39 my smelling sucks. Dec 04 11:47:10 your selling smacks? Dec 04 11:47:30 Yes, 2 for 1 euro. Dec 04 11:47:39 Alternatively try one of these gorillas, they are milder. Dec 04 11:48:27 two bottles please! Dec 04 11:49:52 that's 500. You can also pay with credit card Dec 04 11:50:31 with credit card? ok, makes 25 diners or 20 amex Dec 04 11:50:34 Oh excellant. Dec 04 11:50:43 6549 8843 6652 9956 Dec 04 11:50:53 acc: 02458694 Dec 04 11:51:03 SC: 00-54-82 Dec 04 11:51:14 SEC: 386 Dec 04 11:51:28 one Dec 04 11:51:32 Name: I. P. Freely Dec 04 11:51:32 DocScrutinizer05, did you see what I suggested Dec 04 11:52:02 please hurry up Sir! other customers waiting. You owe me another 24 amex cards Dec 04 11:52:39 oh sorry, 19 amex Dec 04 11:52:41 I said just cookoo Dec 04 11:52:50 cookoo watch Dec 04 11:53:08 hmm? Dec 04 11:54:13 you might want to watch the relevant videos of OHSW Dec 04 11:54:21 it's only for android and iOS... i'd say let's make it for maemo too Dec 04 11:54:48 I think that's GTA04B8 Dec 04 11:55:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbfT-Qqw1M&noredirect=1 Dec 04 11:55:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExEgaIsfVeM&noredirect=1 Dec 04 11:58:15 DocScrutinizer05: Imagine I have a chain of switching regulators. The first (reg1) is at 90% efficiency. The second (reg2) is at 80% efficiency and the third (reg3) is at 70% efficiency. The regulators are in a chain. That is reg3 is powered from reg2 which in turn is powered from reg1. How do I calculate the efficiency of the whole chain? Could you suggest what I may read to better understand the overall efficiency of the system? Dec 04 11:59:56 zamn900: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ExEgaIsfVeM#t=2226 Dec 04 12:01:48 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25201195 Dec 04 12:01:55 vi: Dec 04 12:02:07 ~0.9*0.8*0.7 Dec 04 12:02:07 0.504 Dec 04 12:02:33 That simple huh. Dec 04 12:02:50 There is specific proof German education is better than UK education. Dec 04 12:03:35 generally such design is *strongly* deprecated though Dec 04 12:03:54 yeah it sounds like heating elements :) Dec 04 12:04:16 What architecture is considered better? Dec 04 12:04:17 and id guess the efficiency varies over load Dec 04 12:04:30 My example was very simplified. Dec 04 12:04:51 only needed when stage one is 10kV->1kV, stage two 1kV->100V, stage3 100V->5V Dec 04 12:05:35 while 5V->10kV is generally done with only one stage Dec 04 12:06:02 I need 12V>5V>3.3V>2.5V>1.8V>1.1V>0.9V Dec 04 12:06:36 The system currently uses ~8-10W Dec 04 12:06:51 then get switch converters that create 5,3.3,2.5,1.8,1.1,0.9 from 12 Dec 04 12:07:21 Space is of the utmost importance. Dec 04 12:07:36 Are you suggesting a converter for each voltage? Dec 04 12:07:40 you can use a mixed design with e.g. a LDO creating 1.8 from 2.5 Dec 04 12:08:38 for low power needs LDO might be the better choice, and those you opperate at minimum voltage drop that's sufficient to make the LDO regulate decently Dec 04 12:09:04 but *switch* converters you never daisy chain Dec 04 12:10:12 mmm. Dec 04 12:10:23 I need ~230mA@1.8V Dec 04 12:10:57 ~(2.5-1.8)*0.23 Dec 04 12:10:58 0.161 Dec 04 12:10:59 ~0.23*(3.3-1.8) Dec 04 12:11:00 0.345 Dec 04 12:11:05 Watt Dec 04 12:11:23 loss Dec 04 12:11:26 for LDO Dec 04 12:11:29 in heat. Dec 04 12:11:37 at 3.3V in 1.8V out Dec 04 12:11:47 Sales always want you to invent some new magiic. Dec 04 12:12:06 tell sales to fsck themselves Dec 04 12:12:21 rofl Dec 04 12:12:54 no really, sounds like their fs is corrupted, fsck needed Dec 04 12:13:03 Why can't I daisy chain switching regulators? Is it due to output ripple? Dec 04 12:13:38 there are several reasons, but one of them is the calculation as done above Dec 04 12:13:50 ~0.8*0.7*0.6 Dec 04 12:13:52 0.336 Dec 04 12:14:49 *input* inrush and noise/ripple is another Dec 04 12:15:19 overall regulation instability issues a third Dec 04 12:15:28 * vi__ credits DocScrutinizer05 beer account with 1 credit. Dec 04 12:16:36 then a (often) *very* relevant issue is power-up/down *sequencing* Dec 04 12:17:27 with parallel converters you can sequence then as you like and need. for serial ones it's trivial to see you can't Dec 04 12:18:12 a 12V,5V,3.3V device might need 5V first, then 3.3V, and only then 12V Dec 04 12:18:43 otherwise really nasty things may happen during power-up/down Dec 04 12:19:31 you need to carefully evaluate the power-up/down sequence requirements of your device Dec 04 12:20:04 That is a very good point. Dec 04 12:20:27 otherwise from lockup to erasing HDD to escaping blue magic smoke everything can happen Dec 04 12:23:42 I'd say you check which powerrails to pick to make up for 90% of your power consumption. Those are candidates for dedicated switch converters. The rest can get done by LDO Dec 04 12:24:27 from any conventient available power source that's powered up already when you need it for input of your target voltage rail Dec 04 12:25:06 for a typical PC that would be 12V, 5V, 3.3V Dec 04 12:25:40 (maybe -12V too, since that needs tricks anyway, without a switch converter) Dec 04 12:26:17 any other voltages like 2.3V, 1.8V etc usually can be done by LDO fron either 5V or 3.3V Dec 04 12:26:28 whichever is better siuted Dec 04 12:26:49 hi dos1 Dec 04 12:26:52 can i get gpio happening with the nopp Dec 04 12:26:58 n900 Dec 04 12:27:07 err, rephrase Dec 04 12:27:27 gpio *happening*? Dec 04 12:27:39 i have seen some andoid phones hacked for raspi kind of things with gpio pins Dec 04 12:27:48 last time I joined a happening is decades ago ;-) Dec 04 12:28:07 what Dec 04 12:28:17 yes, you can access and control GPIO in N900, via sysfs Dec 04 12:28:24 you know what i mean, please stop being pedantic Dec 04 12:28:36 please find your humour! Dec 04 12:28:53 * LinuxCode pendantically goes to bed Dec 04 12:28:56 nn ;-} Dec 04 12:29:02 n8 Dec 04 12:29:28 DocScrutinizer05, thanks again for that link Dec 04 12:29:31 where and what sort of pinots are there? Dec 04 12:29:32 yw Dec 04 12:29:47 ~schematics Dec 04 12:29:47 hmm... schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Dec 04 12:30:36 maybe this phone is too rare actually. Dec 04 12:31:05 i already have all the schematics Dec 04 12:31:14 maybe get a less rare one then? when you can wait a while, i may suggest Neo900 Dec 04 12:31:50 not exactly less rare, but at least fresh from the factory (in 6 months) Dec 04 12:31:51 i saw the plans for that but i serriously think i'll be about 40 if it comes out Dec 04 12:32:23 I wish I was 40 when it comes out ;-P Dec 04 12:32:27 you seriously think it'll happen? there isn't even a prootype Dec 04 12:32:42 BZZZZ false Dec 04 12:32:44 it's in the early prototyping phase Dec 04 12:33:08 there are 300+ GTA04 out in the field, since >1 year Dec 04 12:33:55 you mean the one that eplaces the n900 guts Dec 04 12:34:07 hmm? Dec 04 12:34:10 or just that huge thing they already made Dec 04 12:34:19 I mean GTA04 replaces GTA02 guts Dec 04 12:34:38 i mean the neo900 Dec 04 12:34:42 and so did you Dec 04 12:34:43 and we base Neo900 on GTA04, closely Dec 04 12:35:41 but ther is no working neo900 proototype Dec 04 12:35:49 so we already *have* ~300 prototypes Dec 04 12:36:11 you seen what Nokia's prototypes look like? Dec 04 12:36:14 those are totally different devices Dec 04 12:36:23 our GTA04 is a beauty against that Dec 04 12:36:34 ok a working neo900. ther isn't one. Dec 04 12:36:42 so what? Dec 04 12:36:45 again, pedanticc Dec 04 12:36:50 we started 1 month ago Dec 04 12:36:56 we? Dec 04 12:37:01 again, you start annoying me Dec 04 12:37:10 ~joerg Dec 04 12:37:10 hmm... joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer Dec 04 12:37:45 that's ok, i will be done taking a shhit asoon and go back to building my drum machines Dec 04 12:38:01 do whatever you like Dec 04 12:38:35 but i'm done with taking shit from you Dec 04 12:39:14 ok. so you actually think there will be neo900ms for sale in 6 months. Dec 04 12:39:23 . Dec 04 12:39:30 damit Dec 04 12:39:32 ? Dec 04 12:40:42 how come there isn't a working example yet? 6 months sounds too short when tit doesn't actually even exist yet Dec 04 12:43:57 k. bye. Dec 04 12:51:07 I was on my n900 and couldn't see anything. DocScrutinizer05, don't get all butthurt because I have no idea who you are Dec 04 12:51:58 I don't come here. so I don't know. but I would like to ask you about the neo900 Dec 04 12:53:47 I know the gt04 is working but that's not the same as the neo900, it's like saying "we've got the wristwatch computer prototype working, it's based on the same thing but it's the size of a dinnerplate" Dec 04 12:54:56 no, the both designs are like 95% identical Dec 04 12:55:03 just differnetly shaped Dec 04 12:55:31 ok working example of neo900 Dec 04 12:55:37 not the gt04 Dec 04 12:55:40 which been the originating aspect of this project Dec 04 12:56:22 also who is we? I ask these questions because I do not know Dec 04 12:56:41 http://neo900.org/faq#who Dec 04 12:56:43 and I wish to. Dec 04 12:57:21 will it fit in the n900 case? Dec 04 12:58:03 http://neo900.org/news-0005-phase-i-results-ohsw-showcase Dec 04 12:58:26 called "mechanical evaluation" Dec 04 12:59:03 because I have two, and I'm nearly about to break out the second one and retire the first Dec 04 12:59:26 first one is nearly all busted up from being my main phone for the whole tiem I've had any type of smartphone Dec 04 12:59:30 and I love it. Dec 04 13:00:05 apart from that pxt app not working, and the OMweather has stopped working too :/ Dec 04 13:00:31 in australia it shows the wrong day, has anyone reported this bug yet? Dec 04 13:01:01 I'm using foreca and dunno about OMweather Dec 04 13:01:55 but yes, reports sum up about OMweather dead Dec 04 13:03:36 ok Dec 04 13:03:46 I'm installing foreca to see if that works Dec 04 13:03:57 is 6 months realistic? Dec 04 13:04:04 we hope so Dec 04 13:04:19 is the fm transmitter and ir port kept? Dec 04 13:04:27 those are two of the best functions Dec 04 13:04:39 as usual, it's just an estimation that might see bumps in the road Dec 04 13:04:53 you hvae $25k to play with apparently Dec 04 13:05:02 http://neo900.org/specs Dec 04 13:06:40 that is very cool. Dec 04 13:06:57 I'll have to wait about 3 years for a second hand one though. more than likely. Dec 04 13:07:24 they might be hard to find second hand Dec 04 13:07:27 if I'm to keep out of debt and finish my other projects Dec 04 13:07:35 those who buy one *really* want it Dec 04 13:07:45 I Really want it but it's also a really high price Dec 04 13:07:56 higher than the original n900 Dec 04 13:08:12 yes, but alas we can't do much about the price, except hoping for more customers Dec 04 13:08:38 the original N900 been sold in the 100k volumes, in first 4 weeks Dec 04 13:08:50 they're tough to find now Dec 04 13:08:56 with 100k batch, we could be cheaper than N900 Dec 04 13:09:25 that would require 100k people wanting it ANDwith the money up front/in advance for it Dec 04 13:09:55 yes, since our kitty doesn't have the chips to do that Dec 04 13:10:12 lots of people don't follow through with things. Dec 04 13:10:29 or some billionaire who thinks it's a fun project to watch before he dies Dec 04 13:10:49 my next few year plan relies on me staying debt free but completing several big goals Dec 04 13:11:12 yeah, I know that Dec 04 13:11:20 this allows pretty spartan living, I might have to keep the n900 in service Dec 04 13:11:42 a billionaire seeing the awesome potential in something is a bit like hoping for the lottery Dec 04 13:11:56 we're not hoping Dec 04 13:12:19 we're telling you the bitter truth: we can't change the price Dec 04 13:12:21 people with that much money often have it because they're disgusting greedy people who have RUINED the lives of many to get it Dec 04 13:12:22 you can Dec 04 13:12:27 by ordering Dec 04 13:12:35 well I just told you I can't. Dec 04 13:12:36 DocScrutinizer05: from my ownexperience you don't really get traction until you have a working device Dec 04 13:12:39 is there any estimate on the timetable so far Dec 04 13:12:52 there is a paper device Dec 04 13:13:02 bullshit Dec 04 13:13:08 doesnt look paper-y to me Dec 04 13:13:12 yep Dec 04 13:13:27 a working neo900 Dec 04 13:13:28 paper doesn't answer "OK" to "AT" Dec 04 13:13:30 nobody has seen one yet Dec 04 13:13:39 not that other device Dec 04 13:13:42 the youtube shows the concept but not a working device Dec 04 13:13:53 it doesn't matter if it's LIKE the n900, it's not the neo900 Dec 04 13:13:58 Gear_: you're starting to annoy me again. I tld you we started one month ago! Dec 04 13:14:44 it's like a project on protoyping board, it looks big and stupid and people don't get it unless they already know what you're building Dec 04 13:14:48 this is a "kickstarter" project, NOT a product presentation of $BIG-CORP Dec 04 13:14:58 ok. Dec 04 13:15:23 "the only true successor to the n900" etc sort of suggests more Dec 04 13:15:40 UHUH Dec 04 13:15:55 or at least leaves me hoping for more. and I own a couple of these things. Dec 04 13:16:18 we're only responsible for what we write, not for what you think when reading it Dec 04 13:16:33 I don't think I'm annoying you, you're geting annoyed anyway Dec 04 13:17:05 jpinx is asking the same stuff, as would just about anyone interested in this Dec 04 13:17:45 * jpinx isn't asking anything - just pointing out the experience from projects in the past Dec 04 13:18:01 if there isn't goign to be a working example of one UNTIL the first batch of them has been paid for in advance and then made, it's kind of sounding like that console thing which took years and people were disappointed with Dec 04 13:18:42 I had to pay the whole costs of research and prototype building before I could demonstrate what I invented and could sell it to users Dec 04 13:18:44 jpinx, yeah like anything on prototype board, it doesn't matter what it can do, poeple don't give a shit until it's packaged Dec 04 13:19:15 Gear_: you missing the point Dec 04 13:19:55 not really, I'm commenting on the packaging. doc said "there already is a prototype" but it's giant and chunky and not a neo900 Dec 04 13:20:03 your problem, we can't invent the time machine Dec 04 13:20:37 it does not have to be packaged and pretty - it just need to show the components that will be used all stuck together and actually working Dec 04 13:20:39 if this whole thing relies on people paying in advance FOR the neo900 how is it going to be more than a very niche geek thing for existing n900 owners willing to fork out over a grand Dec 04 13:21:18 isn't "there is no working example" kind of exactly what we're both saying Dec 04 13:21:24 and that's *exactly* what it is, KTNXBY Dec 04 13:21:35 DocScrutinizer05: if you have a clunky but working device - make a youtube of it Dec 04 13:21:59 they did, with that paper model thing, it's incredibly clunky. it looks nothing like the n900 Dec 04 13:22:00 jpinx: damn, we will do that as soon as we have that, we're not idiots Dec 04 13:22:05 they have cutout paper shapes Dec 04 13:22:10 that they put into the n900 Dec 04 13:22:22 ok Dec 04 13:22:34 Gear_: stop spreading lies and WATCH THE DAMN PRESENTATION!!! Dec 04 13:22:46 I did, you showed that gt04 Dec 04 13:22:53 BULSHIT! Dec 04 13:22:57 then you showed cutout paper shapes being stuck into the n900 Dec 04 13:23:02 BULSHIT! Dec 04 13:23:12 ok this is what I saw, which presentation are you talking about, and why are you so worked up about it Dec 04 13:23:27 [2013-12-04 13:57:21] will it fit in the n900 case? Dec 04 13:23:28 [2013-12-04 13:58:03] http://neo900.org/news-0005-phase-i-results-ohsw-showcase Dec 04 13:23:35 there is no WAY some simple questions could get you this fucking worked up Dec 04 13:24:00 yes there is, when they got answered and answers ignored by you Dec 04 13:24:49 does that look like PAPEr to you? Dec 04 13:25:00 and that does anything? Dec 04 13:25:07 so STOP SPREADING DAMN LIES! Dec 04 13:25:15 spreading lies? Dec 04 13:25:23 I'm fucking asking questions in #maemo Dec 04 13:25:29 and WATCH THE GODDAMN 60MIN PRESENTATION! Dec 04 13:25:29 you're flipping the hell out Dec 04 13:25:41 heh Dec 04 13:26:13 what exactly are you doing with the $25k already given to you Dec 04 13:26:24 *SIGH* Dec 04 13:26:43 there's no way I'm going to buy one now. why are you typing in caps? are you actually this furious that someone is asking questions Dec 04 13:26:46 http://neo900.org/faq#money Dec 04 13:27:07 when there's no way you're buying one then SHUT UP! Dec 04 13:27:35 torll! Dec 04 13:27:42 troll even Dec 04 13:27:50 I'm not anymore Dec 04 13:27:53 now that I know you'r e Dec 04 13:28:00 involved and this is your response to simple questions Dec 04 13:28:15 Telling people to shut up is just childish. Dec 04 13:28:16 RTFM is my answer to stupid questions Dec 04 13:28:37 so is flipping the HELL out and typing in caps Dec 04 13:28:53 you are basically screaming at a potential customer for asking where the the working example is Dec 04 13:29:07 well, I can also announce a kickban for next lie spread by you Dec 04 13:29:16 this is the text equivalent of screaming into my face. do you think I'm likely to invest now... Dec 04 13:29:39 who the fuck is spreading lies Dec 04 13:29:41 are you delusional Dec 04 13:29:45 I am asking questions Dec 04 13:29:45 you ARe NO potential customer, you yourslf said exactly that 2 lines up Dec 04 13:29:50 well, I said there are only paper shapes Dec 04 13:30:02 s/I/you/ Dec 04 13:30:03 anYc meant: well, you said there are only paper shapes Dec 04 13:30:06 you are a troll annoying me Dec 04 13:30:23 I have only seen paper shapes Dec 04 13:30:31 while I got a device to develop instead of discussing with you about BS Dec 04 13:30:33 I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything Dec 04 13:30:43 ok, go and develop it Dec 04 13:30:49 I cannot wait to see a working one Dec 04 13:31:09 I cannot wait you shut up Dec 04 13:31:10 figuratively, just in case you think I'm spreading lies about my inability to wait Dec 04 13:31:53 uh, either make me, or stop the textual equivalent of screaming in the face at the top of your lungs of people who are asking about this fucking project Dec 04 13:32:12 it's almost as if there's something wrong with you. AND the project. Dec 04 13:32:33 Gear_: either be constructive and help - or bugger off Dec 04 13:32:46 nm, handled that Dec 04 13:33:24 ok thanks Dec 04 13:33:51 pure self defense ;-) Dec 04 13:34:04 heartrate 180 Dec 04 13:34:53 back to more productive work Dec 04 13:34:56 o/ Dec 04 13:35:18 * DocScrutinizer05 waves Dec 04 13:42:01 * jpinx gently suggests to DocScrutinizer05 a really simple timeline on a single webpage giving progress reports Dec 04 13:43:07 when clicking on "Phase1" at neo900.org you get that progress report, and we don't publish any timelines we don't know by ourselves yet Dec 04 13:43:47 more a timeline of "progress to date" -- not predictions Dec 04 13:43:53 DocScrutinizer05: reminds me of my boss at work Dec 04 13:43:59 there's also latest copy of newsletter at bottom of neo900.org page Dec 04 13:44:04 gee I don't know about project timeline Dec 04 13:44:22 so I'm going to make one arbitrary one up on the spot Dec 04 13:44:29 DocScrutinizer05: seriously -- too many places to look Dec 04 13:44:37 since they *must* want a timeline Dec 04 13:44:56 oh seriously, top and bottom of page are too many places to look at Dec 04 13:44:59 ? Dec 04 13:45:14 3 days here, another few days there, some slack space for unforseen events etc Dec 04 13:45:50 News Dec 04 13:45:51 Phase I results - OHSW showcase Dec 01, 2013 Dec 04 13:46:10 is that recent enough a status report? Dec 04 13:46:28 or do you need to know when I take my lunch break? Dec 04 13:46:30 seriously - neo900.org depends on scripts from all over the place Dec 04 13:46:59 no, it uses scripts but we made sure it does NOT depend on them Dec 04 13:47:19 if you find a feature that's really missing without scripts, please holler Dec 04 13:47:45 but maybe you want to discuss this with dos1 Dec 04 13:48:06 he's responsible for the web appearance Dec 04 13:48:07 maybe a "blog"/"news" link in the top row would be helpful Dec 04 13:48:26 err, I see a link "news" theer Dec 04 13:48:28 dos1: is in here ? Dec 04 13:48:53 which scroll down the page to "News" Dec 04 13:48:57 see above Dec 04 13:49:10 OOPS, called media Dec 04 13:49:23 Right, that's not correct Dec 04 13:49:29 top of the page shows Dec 04 13:49:29 Neo900 About Features Donate Media Dec 04 13:49:29 FAQ Specs Contact Subscribe Dec 04 13:49:40 should read "News", not "Media" Dec 04 13:50:03 dos1: ^^^ please fix that Dec 04 13:51:10 also I think it would deserve the first place after "Neo900" but that might be subjective Dec 04 13:52:37 people want to know WHAT is it before they read news they don't have context for Dec 04 13:53:37 ok - I don't want to get into webdesign, but it's really not easy to read on my n900 over gprs Dec 04 13:54:03 yeah, that's for sure a huge downside of this polished design Dec 04 13:54:20 the page is huge :( Dec 04 13:54:28 it's pretty heavy and depends on huge screen Dec 04 13:54:40 * jpinx prefers KISS Dec 04 13:55:22 which gives us tons of flames about stupid old ugly design from those who browse it on their desktop PC Dec 04 13:55:31 (KISS) Dec 04 13:55:50 klick on "Donate!" and you see "KISS" ;-) Dec 04 13:56:18 so we know both ends and the comments we receive about it Dec 04 13:56:36 really -- the opening page of any website should be very small and contain links to the heavyweight and the kiss versions Dec 04 13:57:03 really - you are welcome to provide improvements Dec 04 13:57:50 this website wasn't made from big money. It's made by somebody who is doing that in his spare time Dec 04 13:58:18 and I think it's beautiful for that Dec 04 13:58:51 trying toit might look good on a big screen, but it's really hard to use on my n900 Dec 04 13:59:08 and TBH we're not interested in customers that need a pretty website to appreciate the product Dec 04 13:59:17 hmmm Dec 04 14:00:25 the website needs to transport the *idea* to 90% of visitors in a blink of the eye Dec 04 14:00:26 if the device is only available to people with a bigscreen PC - that would be sad Dec 04 14:00:56 jpinx: yes, we will ask for a printout of "sysinfo" Dec 04 14:01:06 the blink of an eye needs a very lightweight page Dec 04 14:01:35 anyway -- good luck with your project - I hope you manage it ok :) Dec 04 14:01:35 * DocScrutinizer05 gets terribly bored about this afternoon on #maemo Dec 04 14:02:47 washing the dishes is always the most boring part of dinner :) Dec 04 14:03:11 dos1: PRETTY PLEASE take out the #maemo channel from the IRC web portal hotlink! Dec 04 14:05:53 >>IRC - #neo900 on Freenode (look for DocScrutinizer and/or dos1)<<(http://neo900.org/contact) >>DocScrutinizer05, don't get all butthurt because I have no idea who you are<< ([2013-12-04 13:51:07] ) Dec 04 14:07:28 luckily we seen max 5 of that category so far Dec 04 14:07:48 amazingly low troll-count Dec 04 14:18:12 freemangordon: ping Dec 04 14:30:57 Wychodzi Dec 04 14:32:01 oh, thought that meant "bye" Dec 04 15:27:59 anybody from CANADA? Dec 04 15:39:30 probably Dec 04 15:41:29 ~ping Dec 04 15:41:29 ~pong Dec 04 15:42:01 Doc, you are from, Romania? right? Dec 04 15:43:23 he's german Dec 04 15:43:49 I dont know why I thought he was a romanian.. :) Dec 04 15:44:22 yeah some old memories.. Dec 04 18:16:16 on my last n900 now :/ Dec 04 18:21:57 ShadowJK, did you kill the others? Dec 04 18:23:09 yes Dec 04 18:23:21 cellmo failure on previous 4 or 5 Dec 04 18:23:26 I've lost count Dec 04 18:32:56 4 potential Neo900's then. Dec 04 18:34:56 what Dec 04 18:36:06 haha.. Dec 04 18:38:41 if only the mobo's are faulty the rest can be used for Neo900 Dec 04 18:41:40 cellmo? Dec 04 18:42:00 (You murderer.) Dec 04 19:25:51 oh :) Dec 04 19:25:58 lufu; cellular modem Dec 04 19:38:40 thx Dec 04 22:14:30 /msg NickServ identify sosmar Dec 04 22:15:09 try again Dec 04 22:15:28 lol Dec 04 22:19:24 hunter2 Dec 04 23:12:51 o.O Dec 04 23:14:24 and that's why you do identify only in freenode.net (aka server) window ;-) Dec 04 23:21:43 tzzz, not even changed his goddamn password! Dec 04 23:21:52 :-P Dec 04 23:22:00 I did for him now **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 05 02:59:58 2013