**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 06 02:59:58 2013
Dec 06 03:09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope, at this procedure it will take forever, sine every new day somebody else trying to help will start from square 0 again
Dec 06 03:09:45 <DocScrutinizer05> since*
Dec 06 03:10:02 <DocScrutinizer05> thus: 
Dec 06 03:10:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Dec 06 03:10:10 <infobot> methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 06 07:03:31 <horli> I have an old n900 with broken microphone. Will the neo900 replacement for the case replace the micro, or will the n900 micro be reused? 
Dec 06 07:58:45 <DocScrutinizer05> horli: mic will be part of replacement board
Dec 06 07:59:05 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe 2 mics even ;-)  --  for stereo recording
Dec 06 08:04:46 <horli> @DocSctutinier: Thanks great news, especially fpr a musiscion like me :-) (stereo)
Dec 06 08:17:00 <DocScrutinizer05> hey! yw :-)
Dec 06 08:17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and I'm looking with a smile at 219 (+1)
Dec 06 08:19:28 <DocScrutinizer05> horli: would be silly to have this great hardware in pocket and not be able to use it for "simple" tasks like doing decent stereo recording, eh?
Dec 06 08:19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Dec 06 08:23:27 <horli> @DocSctutinier: money is on the way ... :-)
Dec 06 08:25:16 <DocScrutinizer05> many thanks for contributing :-)
Dec 06 08:28:23 <DocScrutinizer05> horli: out of interest and to do right decisions designing the hardware: would you rather use the internal (tiny maybe sub-par) standard microphones, or an external stereo microphone with integrated pre-amp, or a cable-whip and two professional mics?
Dec 06 08:30:25 <DocScrutinizer05> and what sample rate and format would you prefer to use?
Dec 06 08:32:29 <horli> well i use my n900 at the moment for recording practising sessions. so i'd youse the internal mic, because quality is not that important, although stereo is nice
Dec 06 08:32:49 <horli> for live performances i use a the moment my laptop
Dec 06 08:33:50 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks! :-)
Dec 06 08:34:31 <horli> but who knows mayne using a phone for live performances gets feasable.....
Dec 06 08:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, should be feasible, but you should use airplane mode (all RF off) for that then
Dec 06 08:36:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ideally you use the 3.5mm for a line-in like on a tapedeck or cassette recorder
Dec 06 08:37:09 <horli> well a digital mixer will always be part of the live equipment
Dec 06 08:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I can't guarantee mic input via line in will be supported at all and at decent quality
Dec 06 08:37:21 <DocScrutinizer05> great, then no problem
Dec 06 08:37:52 <horli> i do not see how one can replace this with a phone (yet :-) )
Dec 06 08:38:06 <DocScrutinizer05> would you be interested in optical digital interface?
Dec 06 08:38:16 <horli> no
Dec 06 08:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> good :-)
Dec 06 08:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> (would be pretty hard to integrate)
Dec 06 08:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> well, you know you always can use USB host
Dec 06 08:39:33 <DocScrutinizer05> to hook up any audiocard extender bo you like
Dec 06 08:39:45 <horli> yes but audacity did not run smoothly on the n900
Dec 06 08:39:55 <horli> but maybe on the neo900?
Dec 06 08:39:57 <DocScrutinizer05> (or maybe directly connect to digital mixer, if that mixer supports this)
Dec 06 08:40:11 <horli> yes the mixer does this
Dec 06 08:40:54 <DocScrutinizer05> the USB2.0 support on Neo900 should be magnitudes better than on N900 with H-E-N botch
Dec 06 08:41:10 <horli> ok, fine :-)
Dec 06 08:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> bandwidth of N900 USB hostmode is limited
Dec 06 08:42:18 <DocScrutinizer05> again, thanks for your support. Have to run, cya
Dec 06 08:42:31 <horli> thank your for your work, great!
Dec 06 08:44:44 <darkschneider> i admit that ordering a neo900 is tempting me a lot. Will it be available even after the first group is shipped?
Dec 06 08:45:16 <DocScrutinizer05> that's pretty unclear yet, darkschneider
Dec 06 08:45:35 <darkschneider> (my n900 already had that antenna problem that i had to fix with springs... so it will die sooner or later)
Dec 06 08:45:46 <DocScrutinizer05> depends on success and sequel orders
Dec 06 08:46:16 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure will take several months after first batch till we do a second one
Dec 06 08:46:43 <darkschneider> :( that a bad news :( the work the preoject and the rest is simply great i have deep esteem for the guys
Dec 06 08:46:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch, yes. The modem/sim/antenna issue is the most nasty one
Dec 06 08:47:50 <darkschneider> yeah :( when i glued the things i could not even imagine it will work again...
Dec 06 08:48:02 <darkschneider> mmm several months... mmm
Dec 06 08:48:35 <DocScrutinizer05> and we have another problem: some essential components are getting increasingly hard to source
Dec 06 08:49:11 <DocScrutinizer05> the design is >4 years old, and we need to use several of those old parts
Dec 06 08:49:16 <darkschneider> the next question is, at this time of the project, if i put in the 100 will that give me the mb for sure given that the minimum number of 200 have been surpassed
Dec 06 08:49:23 <DocScrutinizer05> due to N900 compatibility and case
Dec 06 08:49:36 <darkschneider> mm, impressive, chip phase out is so fast?
Dec 06 08:49:58 <darkschneider> (i'm in aeronautical sector... here rarely anything phase out :D )
Dec 06 08:50:24 <DocScrutinizer05> darkschneider: yes, assuming we don't fail fatally this 100EUR donation will ensure we build a device "with your name on it"
Dec 06 08:51:07 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, EOL/livespan is a b*tch for consumer electronics like N900/OMAP3
Dec 06 08:51:58 <darkschneider> mmm you kind of convinced me... and the fact that the mb is german made make me hope for a better quality
Dec 06 08:52:15 <DocScrutinizer05> while the most problematic part right now is a silly 64pin Molex connector that usually cost ~30ct per unit, but is obsolete
Dec 06 08:53:26 <DocScrutinizer05> we might need to have a custom build for this connector, since it's the one where you (the user - in case of board swap) connect the display flex cable to
Dec 06 08:54:25 <darkschneider> could not imagine such a thing! a silly connector, i guess that somewhere in a chinese factory there is a forgotten box full of it
Dec 06 08:55:03 <l4m3rx> btw DocScrutinizer05, maybe it will be useful to add the project current problems on the page (as a short list... 1.Display connector, 2.Cam connector, 3...), thuo most project relayted ppl are active in TMO, maybe some1 outside the project may come up with solution .
Dec 06 08:55:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, we're asking all chinese fabs, searching for it. a tedious job
Dec 06 08:55:49 <DocScrutinizer05> l4m3rx: great idea, yes
Dec 06 08:56:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll manage to do this this weekend
Dec 06 08:57:10 <darkschneider> i have one last silly question, what they use as connector now? I mean it's obsolete cause new screens are much higher resolution and so use a wider connector or they now connect in a different way.
Dec 06 08:57:26 <DocScrutinizer05> the 64pin Molex: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/5000246471/5000246471-ND/2818746
Dec 06 08:59:09 <darkschneider> arf, yes, really tedious, i respect and thank you for your work. i have sourced from chinese fabs and i know it's a crazy job... they may tell they have it and send a completely different thing..
Dec 06 09:02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Dec 06 09:06:18 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: Good morning.
Dec 06 09:06:39 <DocScrutinizer05> morning
Dec 06 09:07:00 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: You listed 3 reasons why daisy chaining switching regulators was a poor idea.  I can recall 1.  The inefficiencies add up.
Dec 06 09:07:23 <vi__> Can you in few words say what the others were again.  So I may write it down?
Dec 06 09:10:49 <vi__> Or even point me to the channel logs?
Dec 06 09:19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> switched has higher BOM which often isn't justified, so you use LDO instead, and those work better when voltage drop is low
Dec 06 09:19:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and power sequencing is a very relevant point
Dec 06 09:20:44 <DocScrutinizer05> afk, bbl
Dec 06 09:20:51 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Dec 06 09:21:06 <DocScrutinizer05> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
Dec 06 09:21:16 <DocScrutinizer05> /topic
Dec 06 09:34:55 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: thank you.
Dec 06 09:43:22 <DocScrutinizer05> darkschneider: what do you do when they send you a 1000 of the wrong item?
Dec 06 09:43:41 <darkschneider> scream a lot
Dec 06 09:43:46 <DocScrutinizer05> send back and ask for money back?
Dec 06 09:43:54 <DocScrutinizer05> jump from your roof?
Dec 06 09:44:12 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, thought as much
Dec 06 09:44:16 <darkschneider> it's more likely they give back the money without taking the stuff (it happens)
Dec 06 09:44:28 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Dec 06 09:45:01 <darkschneider> but sadly really :( screaming is part of it :( (and i hate to... but looks like it's a cultural stuff)
Dec 06 09:45:08 <DocScrutinizer05> but probably usually you simply have to find new money to waste it on next company to send you another crap
Dec 06 09:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, screaming AT THEM
Dec 06 09:45:37 <darkschneider> yes, that i mean
Dec 06 09:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> that gives me hope
Dec 06 09:45:51 <darkschneider> really, go on and on
Dec 06 09:46:04 <darkschneider> if you make few opposition they thing "in the end he is happy"
Dec 06 09:46:10 <darkschneider> thing/think
Dec 06 09:46:36 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly related to the chinese thing with "no" not existing
Dec 06 09:46:47 <darkschneider> probably :D
Dec 06 09:47:15 <DocScrutinizer05> so when you tell them "I'm disappointed" they don't even understand what you say, since they never before heard
Dec 06 09:47:36 <darkschneider> but i on that i love more japanese attitude. They do anything so the thing is so perfect that you can't say no... does not happen with chinese products :D
Dec 06 09:47:58 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Dec 06 09:48:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard on Japanese when you ask for a reasonable thing they can't deny it
Dec 06 09:48:31 <darkschneider> "disappointed" is not there, too soft. Disappointed = happy i think they think "in the end he got the product and we got the money, so it's good"
Dec 06 09:48:42 <darkschneider> no they can't :D
Dec 06 09:49:22 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe we can ask some japanese supplier for the molex stuff
Dec 06 09:49:58 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, I'm 60min late
Dec 06 09:50:00 <darkschneider> if you have them custom made, do that
Dec 06 09:50:03 <darkschneider> laterr :)
Dec 06 09:50:04 <DocScrutinizer05> l8rs, o/
Dec 06 09:50:08 <darkschneider> thanks for your work
Dec 06 09:50:10 <darkschneider> :)
Dec 06 09:50:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Dec 06 09:53:25 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Dec 06 10:05:39 <DocScrutinizer05> darkschneider: thanks!
Dec 06 10:06:07 <darkschneider> eheh, welcome :P if it worked, i'll record that it worked one time more :P
Dec 06 10:15:19 <Sicelo> Activesync on fremantle.. does it have a 'ver' negative effect on battery? (like skype perhaps)
Dec 06 10:17:26 <Sicelo> *very
Dec 06 11:08:23 <vi__> Sicelo: Not really.
Dec 06 11:08:58 <vi__> But be careful...removing *may* brake the n900 ability to connect to ovi suite.
Dec 06 11:09:19 <Sicelo> i don't use windows :P
Dec 06 11:09:25 <vi__> Weel then!
Dec 06 11:09:30 <vi__> ^well
Dec 06 11:09:32 <Sicelo> so i guess i'm safe..
Dec 06 11:09:49 <Sicelo> using MfE with Outlook.com, just for testing.. works ok
Dec 06 11:09:59 <vi__> It has a funny package name.
Dec 06 11:10:14 <vi__> MfE won't work without activesync surely.
Dec 06 11:10:46 <Sicelo> which package name referring to?
Dec 06 11:12:17 <vi__> I cannot remember.  I recall it has a '0' in the title. :/
Dec 06 11:12:30 <vi__> It is not named activsync.
Dec 06 11:13:18 <Sicelo> ah, yes, lol.. i remember it too.. lemme find it
Dec 06 11:14:00 <Sicelo> as-daemon-0
Dec 06 11:14:06 <vi__> That is the one!
Dec 06 13:52:36 <grr> moin ;)
Dec 06 20:48:22 <ccxN> so, what's today recommended sources.list content for reasonably recent packages?
Dec 06 20:50:26 <ccxN> py2.6+ would be nice
Dec 06 21:26:41 <kerio> ccxN: extras-devel, community-testing
Dec 06 21:26:44 <kerio> the usual
Dec 06 21:26:56 <kerio> note: it's not actually recommended
Dec 06 21:33:00 <ccxN> kerio: which mirrors? last time I've set it up the official were down
Dec 06 21:38:19 <kerio> last time
Dec 06 21:38:24 <kerio> not this time
Dec 07 00:05:53 <lufu> When I buy a battery like the PolarCell online it won't arrive fully charged, will it?
Dec 07 00:23:53 <lufu> I would like to know since my n900 doesn't start atm but I can't flash it either since the battery is not fully charged.
Dec 07 00:24:46 <nox-> ~flatbatrecover
Dec 07 00:24:46 <infobot> Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!.
Dec 07 00:24:58 <nox-> ~bootloop
Dec 07 00:24:58 <infobot> well, bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing.
Dec 07 00:32:06 <lufu> It seems I'm in a bootloop.  I can't just buy a new battery and use that for flashing, since it probably won't be fully charged, right?
Dec 07 00:34:05 <nox-> well probably makes more sense to buy an external charger...
Dec 07 00:34:27 <nox-> (tho id have to check myself which ones are ok)
Dec 07 00:36:30 <lufu> I was hoping to avoid that since I don't think I'll need it ever again.
Dec 07 00:38:11 <nox-> ~recover
Dec 07 00:38:12 <infobot> A utility which automates some steps to undelete a file.. URL: http://users.linuxbox.com/~recover/
Dec 07 00:38:18 <nox-> hm
Dec 07 00:38:44 <nox-> wasnt there also some way to boot a working small rootfs via other means?
Dec 07 00:38:49 <nox-> ~rootfs
Dec 07 00:38:49 <infobot> rootfs: the content of the storage volume mounted under /, on NAND mtd5 partition. Also called "the system", since it's all the files forming the linux core system (except the kernel itself). Reflash rootfs from COMBINED (see ~flashing). Also see ~bootloop
Dec 07 00:39:16 <nox-> DocScrutinizer05, ping
Dec 07 00:39:48 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
Dec 07 00:40:16 <nox-> what was that rootfs booted via usb thing or so?
Dec 07 00:40:29 <nox-> so he can charge...
Dec 07 00:40:30 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rescueos
Dec 07 00:40:30 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/
Dec 07 00:40:34 <nox-> ah
Dec 07 00:41:41 <nox-> (might want to add that to the bootloop factoid? :)
Dec 07 00:42:19 <lufu> Thanks nox- and DocScrutinizer05... I'll try that.
Dec 07 00:42:26 <nox-> good luck :)
Dec 07 00:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal bootloop
Dec 07 00:43:26 <infobot> "#maemo bootloop" is "when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing."
Dec 07 00:44:19 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, #maemo bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS
Dec 07 00:44:19 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Dec 07 00:44:45 <nox-> thx :)
Dec 07 00:45:24 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, #maemo bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.
Dec 07 00:45:25 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Dec 07 00:48:28 <nox-> btw will neo900 be able to charge w/o working rootfs?
Dec 07 01:18:36 <lufu> nox-: Yay, it's already charging... :)
Dec 07 01:18:53 <nox-> \o/
Dec 07 01:50:20 <DocScrutinizer05> nox-: we'll see
Dec 07 01:50:33 <DocScrutinizer05> nox-: obviously N900 *can* do
Dec 07 01:51:19 <nox-> as we've seen yeah but its still a bit tricky :)
Dec 07 01:51:31 <DocScrutinizer05> nox-: isn't the question more like: can we flash it when battery empty?
Dec 07 01:51:37 <nox-> or that
Dec 07 01:51:58 <nox-> or can it run from usb power w/o battery?
Dec 07 02:01:49 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: Neo900 will only have 200 produced units as it stands?
Dec 07 02:06:14 <DocScrutinizer05> 250 min as of right now
Dec 07 02:07:00 <DocScrutinizer05> nox-: if feasible, we will make sure it can
Dec 07 02:07:18 <DocScrutinizer05> what never will work is modem without battery
Dec 07 02:07:58 <nox-> ok
Dec 07 02:08:00 <nox-> bbl
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 07 02:59:58 2013