**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 26 02:59:59 2013
Dec 26 07:45:57 <natsukao> hi
Dec 26 07:46:16 <natsukao> have you busybox for Android 4.1 ?
Dec 26 07:46:36 <natsukao> i am searchin the binary
Dec 26 10:45:08 <qwazix> my brother's N900 fails flashing during something CMT related (different every time) and half of the times it doesn't boot (I have to take out the battery, press the power button and insert the battery with the button depressed)
Dec 26 10:45:20 <qwazix> and it also shows all telephony functions are disabled
Dec 26 10:45:28 <qwazix> I guess there's no hope...
Dec 26 10:59:35 <ShadowJK> Sounds like classical modem failure
Dec 26 11:12:31 <qwazix> ShadowJK, yeah, it fell along with it's owner off a bike :(
Dec 26 11:12:56 <qwazix> I'm thinking to put it in the oven, you never know...
Dec 26 11:17:45 <ShadowJK> there's another trick that people do with bit of spring from ballpoint pen
Dec 26 11:18:13 <Hurrian> qwazix: a full oven is a bit much for a tiny board, don't you think?
Dec 26 11:18:23 <Hurrian> do you have one of those neat convection ovens?
Dec 26 11:18:54 <ShadowJK> also what does oven do with doublesided board...
Dec 26 11:19:38 <Hurrian> ShadowJK: some have the balls to lay a board on an oven raw, I prefer to use protection - mobo standoffs work quite nicely.
Dec 26 11:20:45 <Hurrian> I have an oven tray with holes drilled into it so I can mount mobo standoffs on them to support boards when baking.
Dec 26 11:32:04 <qwazix> Hurrian, no, no convection oven. I got a microwave though :P
Dec 26 11:32:36 <qwazix> I think it's beyond repair anyway so I'm willing to try anything
Dec 26 11:32:58 <Hurrian> qwazix: aww. those little things are the closest you'd get to a nicely-controlled reflow oven though :P
Dec 26 11:33:34 <qwazix> ShadowJK, that spring thing is only about the modem isn't it? Or are the boot problems also related?
Dec 26 11:33:46 <ShadowJK> dunno
Dec 26 11:33:53 <qwazix> Hurrian, I had one of those, when I was a student
Dec 26 11:34:05 <ShadowJK> my modemdead n900 do boot
Dec 26 11:34:44 <qwazix> I didn't see any reports of non-booting N900's due to modem failures so I think it's something severe
Dec 26 11:34:53 <qwazix> That's why I thought oven
Dec 26 11:36:34 <qwazix> I'll put it in the big oven along with a nice piece of ham. If it fails I'll at least eat the ham :)
Dec 26 12:08:37 <sixwheeledbeast> qwazix: have you had it apart? What kind of bike?
Dec 26 12:21:35 <darkschneider> qwazix: just to report a success. i did the spring thing and it now works.. still the thing does not fit that much well and will not last... imho if you go for spring fix, then go for a neo900. Apart that at the time i read somewhere on forums that modem issues can give other issues just for the fact that some contacts are going in and out maybe each time you move the phone (but i know those a just my 2 cents)
Dec 26 12:22:57 <sixwheeledbeast> I wouldn't rule out something coming loose inside, if violent shock has happened.
Dec 26 12:23:35 <darkschneider> yep i do agree, open and check
Dec 26 12:23:57 <sixwheeledbeast> maybe even a shield shorting something out or whatever
Dec 26 12:24:39 <sixwheeledbeast> also I would check the flasher as they maybe unrelated.
Dec 26 12:26:27 <sixwheeledbeast> I have trouble flashing on eMMC on my desktop ubuntu, for example. 
Dec 26 12:26:50 <sixwheeledbeast> s/on eMMC/my eMMC/
Dec 26 12:26:50 <infobot> sixwheeledbeast meant: I have trouble flashing my eMMC on my desktop ubuntu, for example. 
Dec 26 13:07:31 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: DO NOT EAT the ham! do not eat the N900 mobo either!
Dec 26 13:10:14 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: apart from that, a 5-10 min in 230°C might actually do the trick, but odds are it also might destroy your mobo
Dec 26 13:10:54 <DocScrutinizer05> going higher than 240° is strongly discouraged (and probably also not possible in a usual oven)
Dec 26 13:11:15 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure you don't get any radiation heat
Dec 26 13:11:22 <ShadowJK> mine goes ober 300 :D
Dec 26 13:11:30 <DocScrutinizer05> duh!
Dec 26 13:12:27 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: actaully you want to remove the cans' lids before doing this reflow botch
Dec 26 13:12:49 <DocScrutinizer05> which in itself is a nice practice in zen
Dec 26 13:39:36 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, thanks for advice
Dec 26 13:39:47 <DocScrutinizer05> yw :-9
Dec 26 13:39:50 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Dec 26 13:39:53 <qwazix> cans lids are the metal parts over chips?
Dec 26 13:39:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 26 13:40:09 <qwazix> :nod:
Dec 26 13:40:11 <DocScrutinizer05> the lids are ... well, the lids on the cans
Dec 26 13:40:26 <DocScrutinizer05> don't rip off the complete can!
Dec 26 13:40:29 <qwazix> yeah, just to make sure it isn't any weird jargon
Dec 26 13:40:51 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_02.jpeg
Dec 26 13:41:26 <qwazix> and of course I wasn't going to put ham with the N900, I was just joking
Dec 26 13:41:30 <DocScrutinizer05> you see two opened cans on this scan
Dec 26 13:41:39 <qwazix> yep
Dec 26 13:42:05 <DocScrutinizer05> opening up the lids is really zen for experts
Dec 26 13:42:15 <DocScrutinizer05> takes ~ 15min
Dec 26 13:42:17 <qwazix> aremt
Dec 26 13:42:27 <qwazix> aren't they three open cans?
Dec 26 13:42:43 <DocScrutinizer05> err maybe I conted incorrectly
Dec 26 13:43:05 <DocScrutinizer05> nope 2
Dec 26 13:43:21 <DocScrutinizer05> err 3
Dec 26 13:43:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, sorry
Dec 26 13:45:25 <qwazix> :nod:
Dec 26 13:46:21 <DocScrutinizer05> you *might* want to flood the whole thing with flux before baking it
Dec 26 13:46:23 <qwazix> http://play.qwazix.com/shared/n900_02.jpeg right?
Dec 26 13:46:47 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Dec 26 13:47:33 <DocScrutinizer05> actually flux might help a damn lot to make the broken solder points to join again
Dec 26 13:48:06 <DocScrutinizer05> you need SMT flux for that, very thin viscosity
Dec 26 13:48:34 <qwazix> I suppose I can find that in electronics stores?
Dec 26 13:48:47 <DocScrutinizer05> put a drop of it to every corner between a BGA chip and the PCB
Dec 26 13:49:05 <DocScrutinizer05> well, in very good electronic stores, yes
Dec 26 13:49:43 <DocScrutinizer05> the flux has to creep under the chip
Dec 26 13:50:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and you might want to think about any method to apply some gently pushing-down force to the chip
Dec 26 13:51:02 <qwazix> :nod:
Dec 26 13:51:20 <DocScrutinizer05> but maybe that's too demanding to accomplish, particularly given you mustn't apply any force that would slide the chip out of its position
Dec 26 13:52:01 <DocScrutinizer05> so tather do not do anything like this. I at least wouldn't dare to
Dec 26 13:52:07 <DocScrutinizer05> rather*
Dec 26 13:52:47 <qwazix> I think I won't. It's probably a lost cause anyway, seems to have all sorts of problems, including a busted screen connector, but I might just try reflowing just for the fun of it
Dec 26 13:53:14 <DocScrutinizer05> busted screen connector??
Dec 26 13:53:29 <sixwheeledbeast> gravity is "gently pushing down force"
Dec 26 13:53:48 <qwazix> horizontal lines on screen from time to time *if* and when it does boot
Dec 26 13:53:54 <sixwheeledbeast> ~fixribbon
Dec 26 13:53:55 <infobot> i heard fixribbon is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171
Dec 26 13:54:02 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: yeah, but given the chip is about 0.1g in mass, this doesn't really count
Dec 26 13:54:15 <sixwheeledbeast> fair enough
Dec 26 13:54:32 <qwazix> sixwheeledbeast, thx
Dec 26 13:55:00 <DocScrutinizer05> chips don't fall off the board even when holding it upside down, due to "glue" effect of any liquid incl molten solder between the PCB and the chip
Dec 26 13:55:40 <sixwheeledbeast> surface tension?
Dec 26 13:56:00 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: when you got symptoms like broken-ribbon then that aslo might be caused by pins of SoC came off the PCB
Dec 26 13:56:12 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: yep that#s probably the term
Dec 26 13:56:19 <qwazix> might be, haven't opened up the thing yet
Dec 26 13:56:20 <DocScrutinizer05> plus adhesion
Dec 26 13:57:39 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: anyway, try reflow with flux. when fail, it still makes a good base for GTA04-NeoN
Dec 26 13:58:07 <DocScrutinizer05> unless LCD itself or digitizer got damaged
Dec 26 13:58:22 <qwazix> no digitizer and lcd are fine
Dec 26 13:58:35 <sixwheeledbeast> swap the display module over with a known ok one first? You need to open it up first really.
Dec 26 14:02:01 <qwazix> btw what is cmt?
Dec 26 14:05:15 <DocScrutinizer05> cell modem telephony - dunno
Dec 26 14:05:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1400717&postcount=234  related. Mentions boot failing
Dec 26 14:08:02 <qwazix> flashing was failing on cmt in various stages. Finally I managed to flash fw but failed on cmt erase afterwards
Dec 26 14:09:26 <qwazix> how do I unplug the uSD daughterboard? Just pull?
Dec 26 14:11:46 <DocScrutinizer05> NOOOO
Dec 26 14:11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't detach it!
Dec 26 14:12:43 <qwazix> wrong words, I don't want to detach it
Dec 26 14:12:53 <qwazix> I want to make it look like your photo
Dec 26 14:13:02 <DocScrutinizer05> it's fixed by sticky tape to the top of the cans underneath, and the ribbon at the edge of mobo running to daughterboard is fixed and delicate and not fixable
Dec 26 14:13:05 <qwazix> i.e. not sandwiched on the mobo
Dec 26 14:13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> the sticky comes off when carefully pulling it up
Dec 26 14:13:33 <qwazix> ok thx
Dec 26 14:13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> try to make the DS sticky stay on black rubber
Dec 26 14:14:04 <DocScrutinizer05> helps a lot on later reassembly
Dec 26 14:14:39 <qwazix> can next to vibrator can't be opened?
Dec 26 14:14:41 <DocScrutinizer05> cover the sticky with alu foil
Dec 26 14:15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> there are some modules that look similar to cans but can't get opened, yes
Dec 26 14:15:30 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yeah, and this is actually a can that has no lid
Dec 26 14:16:01 <qwazix> indeed removing the lids requires zen mastership
Dec 26 14:16:24 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg
Dec 26 14:17:23 <DocScrutinizer05> in center you see RAPUYAMA modem chip
Dec 26 14:17:54 <DocScrutinizer05> the icon lower right is a lobster (= rapuyama aiui)
Dec 26 14:18:56 <DocScrutinizer05> also you see I failed to keep the DS sticky with black rubber
Dec 26 14:19:30 <qwazix> :nod:
Dec 26 14:19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> not that this DS sticky is really needed to ensure proper operation of device
Dec 26 14:20:09 <DocScrutinizer05> it's probably just for manufacturing to keep the daughterboard in place
Dec 26 14:20:10 <qwazix> I opened up all cans in this side and I can't see any visible damage
Dec 26 14:20:21 <DocScrutinizer05> you won't see damage
Dec 26 14:20:42 <DocScrutinizer05> I never jeard of a chip breaking into pieces ;-)
Dec 26 14:20:46 <DocScrutinizer05> heard*
Dec 26 14:20:53 <qwazix> is really needed or it's *not* really needed? :confused:
Dec 26 14:21:06 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not needed
Dec 26 14:21:45 <qwazix> I covered it with foil anyway, but I doubt stickiness will survive the oven
Dec 26 14:21:51 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not like if it was needed
Dec 26 14:22:07 <qwazix> camera can be removed?
Dec 26 14:22:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, you must remove it
Dec 26 14:22:34 <qwazix> sounds dangerous
Dec 26 14:22:46 <DocScrutinizer05> needs insertion of very thin steel sheets on all 4 sides
Dec 26 14:23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> to open the latches inside socket
Dec 26 14:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course you need to find a way to remove (or protect) the black plastic frame incl rubber on daughterboard
Dec 26 14:24:36 <DocScrutinizer05> also domesheet
Dec 26 14:25:49 <DocScrutinizer05> then I hope your mobo is fine for reflow
Dec 26 14:26:36 <qwazix> camera removed, but I bent one pin
Dec 26 14:26:44 <DocScrutinizer05> :-/
Dec 26 14:27:09 <qwazix> no, it's not a pin
Dec 26 14:27:17 <DocScrutinizer05> a latch I guess
Dec 26 14:27:19 <qwazix> it's one of those things on the sides
Dec 26 14:27:20 <qwazix> yea
Dec 26 14:27:25 <qwazix> *yeah
Dec 26 14:27:49 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure to bend it out of the way before reassembling
Dec 26 14:28:23 <DocScrutinizer05> you prolly won't get it into original shape again, but then it's not absolutely needed
Dec 26 14:28:34 <qwazix> I bent it back in place, almost
Dec 26 14:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> there are 3 other latches afaik
Dec 26 14:29:16 <DocScrutinizer05> so first priority is "keep it out of the way"
Dec 26 14:29:35 <qwazix> ok
Dec 26 14:29:48 <qwazix> two lids to go
Dec 26 14:32:20 <DocScrutinizer05> you might want to cover all obvious plastic parts with alu foil to protect them a little bit
Dec 26 14:32:31 <qwazix> ok lids gone
Dec 26 14:33:22 <qwazix> now do you think foil is enough to protect domesheet?
Dec 26 14:34:57 <DocScrutinizer05> actually wrap half the mobo into alu, the "right" half has no parts that would need reflow
Dec 26 14:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> domesheet no
Dec 26 14:35:13 <DocScrutinizer05> has to get removed
Dec 26 14:35:36 <DocScrutinizer05> it's absolutely _not_ heat resilient
Dec 26 14:35:37 <qwazix> ouch
Dec 26 14:36:24 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh careful peel off might allow reusing it
Dec 26 14:37:00 <DocScrutinizer05> a tad ow increased temperature (40..50°C) may help while peeling it off
Dec 26 14:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> of*
Dec 26 14:37:36 <DocScrutinizer05> don't bend it more than maybe 30° while peeling off, or it will get damaged
Dec 26 14:38:39 <DocScrutinizer05> (on the bright side you can get replacement for domesheet and easily apply it)
Dec 26 14:39:11 <DocScrutinizer05> take care about the LEDs under the upper silver sticky!
Dec 26 14:39:25 <DocScrutinizer05> don't break them off the PCB!
Dec 26 14:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> err, outside is actually white
Dec 26 14:40:11 <DocScrutinizer05> not silver
Dec 26 14:40:45 <qwazix> I peeled it off, who knows if I destroyed it :P
Dec 26 14:40:52 <qwazix> leds are intact
Dec 26 14:41:16 <DocScrutinizer05> if it's not bent or otherwise lost shape, it should be fine
Dec 26 14:41:40 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly the clickdiscs need to stay unbent
Dec 26 14:41:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and keep the sticky intact
Dec 26 14:42:11 <DocScrutinizer05> place the whole sheet on a clean plastic surface maybe
Dec 26 14:42:23 <DocScrutinizer05> so it doesn't attract dust etc
Dec 26 14:42:44 <DocScrutinizer05> or place it into a closed box, sticky facing up
Dec 26 14:43:46 <qwazix> safely tucked in a box
Dec 26 14:43:47 <DocScrutinizer05> have a look at those LEDs, must be the weirdest LED I ever seen :-)
Dec 26 14:44:05 <qwazix> yeah
Dec 26 14:44:12 <qwazix> just some white monolith
Dec 26 14:44:15 <DocScrutinizer05> 0.33mm thick, side view
Dec 26 14:44:45 <qwazix> indeed, but they do their job quite alright
Dec 26 14:45:11 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I just wonder how they managed to make those things shine to the side
Dec 26 14:45:12 <qwazix> (I wouldn't believe they were all on the top from the light distribution on keyboard
Dec 26 14:45:46 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the domesheet light spreader does a good job
Dec 26 14:46:03 <DocScrutinizer05> age old known principle though
Dec 26 14:46:29 <DocScrutinizer05> light comes out from the white dots
Dec 26 14:46:45 <DocScrutinizer05> which are printed all over the domesheet
Dec 26 14:46:58 <DocScrutinizer05> the more dots, the more light
Dec 26 14:48:12 <DocScrutinizer05> so they manage to get same amount of backlight to each key, by placing more7larger dots under the keys that are farther from the LEDs
Dec 26 14:49:55 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: ypu should make sure your oven is actually only 240° and not maybe 260 or higher
Dec 26 14:49:56 <qwazix> nice, didn't know that
Dec 26 14:50:28 <qwazix> http://play.qwazix.com/shared/_DSC5011.JPG
Dec 26 14:50:42 <DocScrutinizer05> chips have a damn narrow window between solder temeprature and damage temperature
Dec 26 14:50:46 <qwazix> http://play.qwazix.com/shared/_DSC5011.JPG
Dec 26 14:51:16 <qwazix> any household solvent I might use for flux?
Dec 26 14:51:21 <DocScrutinizer05> niiice, I only have terribly crappy photos
Dec 26 14:51:27 <qwazix> s/solvent/liquid/
Dec 26 14:51:27 <infobot> qwazix meant: any household liquid I might use for flux?
Dec 26 14:51:29 <DocScrutinizer05> no way
Dec 26 14:51:40 <DocScrutinizer05> flux != solvent
Dec 26 14:52:51 <qwazix> then I'll not do the actual baking today, try to visit an electronics shop in the center of the city tomorrow
Dec 26 14:53:42 <qwazix> should I pre-heat the oven?
Dec 26 14:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, sure
Dec 26 14:54:01 <DocScrutinizer05> for at least 30 min
Dec 26 14:54:35 <qwazix> is there a point trying without flux?
Dec 26 14:54:50 <DocScrutinizer05> SMT flux is a hightech product composed from antioxidant, organic acids and passivating resin
Dec 26 14:55:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I wouldn't
Dec 26 14:55:12 <DocScrutinizer05> you have no second try
Dec 26 14:55:30 <sixwheeledbeast> wow, they are the keyboard LED's cool
Dec 26 14:55:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Dec 26 14:55:52 <DocScrutinizer05> weird little critters
Dec 26 14:56:02 <DocScrutinizer05> couldn't fine exactly those
Dec 26 14:56:07 <DocScrutinizer05> for Neo900
Dec 26 14:56:25 <qwazix> ok then, adventure over for today :-) gonna get something to eat.
Dec 26 14:56:28 <DocScrutinizer05> found a tiny bit larger RGB LEDs though :-)
Dec 26 14:56:33 <qwazix> many thanks!
Dec 26 14:56:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Dec 26 14:56:43 <DocScrutinizer05> a pleasure
Dec 26 14:56:46 <sixwheeledbeast> clever design really, oh I read on #neo900 about RGB :)
Dec 26 14:58:20 <sixwheeledbeast> It will have to be a good electronics shop to have SMT flux
Dec 26 14:58:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Dec 26 14:59:27 <sixwheeledbeast> It wouldn't be available in any electronics shop over here. only online.
Dec 26 14:59:47 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588408/Stannol-Flussmittelstift-Fine-Fluxer-350-830333Inhalt-8-ml?queryFromSuggest=true
Dec 26 15:01:20 <DocScrutinizer05> do NOT use http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588583/Stannol-Loetwasser-Nr-1V-114033-Flussmittel-Typ-311-A-Inhalt-50-ml?ref=searchDetail and similar corrosives
Dec 26 15:02:17 <DocScrutinizer05> rather flux explicitly rated for SMT: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588753/Edsyn-FLUXI-Flussmittel-Pinselflasche-FL-112-FL112-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-34-RO-L0-VOC-frei-Inhalt-30-ml?ref=searchDetail
Dec 26 15:03:15 <qwazix> ouch, I'd rather donate 30eur to Neo900 project really, than wasting it on something which might never work
Dec 26 15:03:30 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588766/Edsyn-FLUXI-Flussmittel-Pinselflasche-FL-19-222-FL19222-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-33-Inhalt-30-ml?ref=searchDetail
Dec 26 15:04:17 <qwazix> hmm that's more manageable. Let's see if they ship to greece
Dec 26 15:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/812062/Stannol-No-clean-Flussmittelstift-830322-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-33-Inhalt-10-ml?ref=searchDetail
Dec 26 15:05:22 <qwazix> ugh, I don't understand a thing
Dec 26 15:05:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/828718/Edsyn-No-clean-Flussmittelstift-FL-88-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-34-Inhalt-10-ml?ref=searchDetail
Dec 26 15:06:32 <qwazix> this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flux-pen-Stannol-MINI-FLUXER-500-6B-NO-CLEAN-for-solar-cells-/281192379808?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item41785f35a0
Dec 26 15:06:43 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I recommend the latter one
Dec 26 15:07:13 <DocScrutinizer05> Edsyn-No-clean-Flussmittelstift-FL-88-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-34
Dec 26 15:09:51 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, the one for solar cells is too agressive for SMT
Dec 26 15:10:06 <qwazix> how can I distinguish those who are ok for this job?
Dec 26 15:10:46 <sixwheeledbeast> qwazix: I can't read greek but maybe some here? https://www.inter-shop.gr/commerce/catalog/index.php?cPath=116_129
Dec 26 15:11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> when they get advertised for "SMT/SMD no-clean"
Dec 26 15:11:36 <qwazix> I found these http://www.skroutz.gr/c/961/spare-parts.html?from=catspan&keyphrase=flux but I have no idea which one
Dec 26 15:11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> or F - SW 26 (DIN EN 29454 / 1.1.2.A)
Dec 26 15:12:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.ebw.gr/el/Product/11615/REBALLING-KIT-RB910
Dec 26 15:13:09 <sixwheeledbeast> "SMT Flux Liquid" looks promising
Dec 26 15:13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> F130 LIQUID FLUX BGA SOLDERING REBALLING REPAIR 50ml ειδικό υγρό για κολλήσεις και...
Dec 26 15:14:03 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, thanks I'll get one of those
Dec 26 15:14:13 <qwazix> the one sixwheeledbeast pointed at seems okay too
Dec 26 15:14:58 <sixwheeledbeast> Reballing one sounds more appropriate 
Dec 26 15:15:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Features:
Dec 26 15:15:02 <DocScrutinizer05> 50ml ROHS
Dec 26 15:15:03 <DocScrutinizer05> Low Residue
Dec 26 15:15:05 <DocScrutinizer05> No-Clean rework Flux
Dec 26 15:15:06 <DocScrutinizer05> Low viscosity can penetrate under the BGA
Dec 26 15:15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly what we want
Dec 26 15:16:04 <DocScrutinizer05> 50ml suffices for 3 human lifes
Dec 26 15:16:06 <qwazix> ok perfect
Dec 26 15:16:12 <DocScrutinizer05> but meh
Dec 26 15:16:15 <qwazix> I also know that store is trustworthy
Dec 26 15:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> for a reference: you'll need <0.1ml for that job
Dec 26 15:17:52 <qwazix> :nod:
Dec 26 15:18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> but for that stuff it's packaging and handling that creates the cost
Dec 26 15:18:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and probably a 50mL glass is cheaper than a 1mL syringe
Dec 26 15:18:39 <qwazix> yeah
Dec 26 15:18:52 <sixwheeledbeast> maybe be handy to have a dropper or syringe for application?
Dec 26 15:19:06 <qwazix> I have one of those
Dec 26 15:19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> toothpick
Dec 26 15:19:18 <DocScrutinizer05> q-tip
Dec 26 15:19:21 <qwazix> and lots of those :P
Dec 26 15:20:01 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno if q-tip is an imternational brand
Dec 26 15:20:13 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like...
Dec 26 15:20:19 <qwazix> it isn't
Dec 26 15:20:32 <qwazix> nobody knows it here
Dec 26 15:20:37 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Dec 26 15:20:43 <DocScrutinizer05> but you do?
Dec 26 15:20:57 <qwazix> but my parents used to live in the US so they use the brand name as product name
Dec 26 15:21:17 <DocScrutinizer05> so you know what I am talking about
Dec 26 15:21:23 <qwazix> yep
Dec 26 15:21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Dec 26 15:21:41 <sixwheeledbeast> cotton buds/swabs is the non brand name
Dec 26 15:22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dip into flux once, then service all chips on the mobo, you don't need a second time dipping it into flux
Dec 26 15:22:12 <sixwheeledbeast> that's what they are called here
Dec 26 15:22:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Dec 26 15:22:44 <qwazix> we're calling them batonettes
Dec 26 15:22:52 <qwazix> french origin or sth
Dec 26 15:23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> the amount of flux it soaks while dipping is sufficient for 30 jobs
Dec 26 15:23:33 <qwazix> okay
Dec 26 15:24:11 <qwazix> now I really got to go eat something, cya later
Dec 26 15:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I should do same
Dec 26 15:24:27 <DocScrutinizer05> so yeah, cya
Dec 26 15:24:32 <teotwaki> DocScrutinizer05: 'later
Dec 26 15:24:45 <teotwaki> DocScrutinizer05: have a good one, hope you don't mind the topic change.
Dec 26 15:24:57 <DocScrutinizer05> no problem
Dec 26 15:35:02 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)
Dec 26 15:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> F-SW33 or F-SW34 rating
Dec 26 15:36:57 <DocScrutinizer05> aka 1.2.3 or 2.2.3
Dec 26 15:38:05 <DocScrutinizer05> and "No-Clean" = <3% solids
Dec 26 15:48:29 <sixwheeledbeast> Any concern about using the oven for a lamb joint afterwards? 
Dec 26 15:58:36 <DocScrutinizer05> WOW  learning something new every day >>Very thin layer of zinc can be used for joining aluminium parts. The parts have to be perfectly machined, or pressed together, due to the small volume of filler metal. At high temperature applied for long time, the zinc diffuses away from the joint. The resulting joint does not present a mechanical weakness and is corrosion-resistant. The technique is known as diffusion soldering.<<
Dec 26 16:02:20 <M4rtinK> interesting :)
Dec 26 16:03:17 <M4rtinK> IIRC soldering/welding aluminium is kinda complicated
Dec 26 16:05:31 <DocScrutinizer05> complicated, yes. Impossible, no
Dec 26 16:05:54 <sixwheeledbeast> TIG and a skilled welder, for large items anyway.
Dec 26 16:05:56 <DocScrutinizer05> unlike magnesium alu isn't listed as "not solderable"
Dec 26 16:07:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and actually you frequently see alu bike frames soldered/welded together
Dec 26 16:08:56 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the T in TIG?
Dec 26 16:09:45 <sixwheeledbeast> Tungsten Inert Gas
Dec 26 16:10:00 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, we call that stuff Wolfram, so WIG here
Dec 26 16:11:18 <sixwheeledbeast> aka GTAW tungsten is non consumable electrode unlike MIG
Dec 26 16:11:24 <DocScrutinizer05> btw guess what the name OSRAM means ;-)
Dec 26 16:12:03 <DocScrutinizer05> if you wonder about the first two: OSmium
Dec 26 16:14:30 <sixwheeledbeast> clever, I didn't even know it was a German company
Dec 26 16:35:31 <darkschneider> mm so it's OSmium Random Access Memory :D
Dec 26 16:36:14 <darkschneider> (sorry, was a too tempting joke for the 26 of December)
Dec 26 17:03:15 <sixwheeledbeast> I'd expect better from you darktailor
Dec 26 20:58:20 <Win7Mac> a little late, but very merry christmas to #maemo :)
Dec 26 21:02:11 <sixwheeledbeast> o/ Win7Mac
Dec 26 21:03:03 <Win7Mac> o/ 6wheely...
Dec 26 21:21:24 <merlin1991> hbib: so still no issues?
Dec 26 21:39:39 <hbib> merlin1991: nope, everything works fine :)
Dec 26 21:39:48 <hbib> and the new battery applet is nice ...
Dec 26 23:08:07 <antithesis_> Can I install any package that's available for PCs using Debian, on a Maemo device?
Dec 26 23:18:16 <sixwheeledbeast> antithesis_: Do you mean install any Debian package in Maemo?
Dec 27 01:13:46 <antithesis_> sixwheeledbeast yeah
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 27 02:59:58 2013