**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 29 02:59:58 2013
Dec 29 05:54:51 <natsukao1> hi
Dec 29 06:13:13 <natsukao1> i need help
Dec 29 06:13:25 <natsukao1> can anyone help me ?
Dec 29 06:14:17 <natsukao1> when i boguht in 2006 the nokia 770, there was by default its own firmware 
Dec 29 06:15:15 <natsukao1> then readin on the web i saw that were possible to gain privilegies of root, and to do became the device r&d
Dec 29 06:15:52 <natsukao1> i did and went ok, today it works again, only the battery is to change
Dec 29 06:16:09 <natsukao1> but i have an important query for you
Dec 29 06:16:55 <natsukao1> 24 december 2013 my aunt and my uncle did as gift a mobile phone mediacom mp720m
Dec 29 06:19:54 <natsukao1> after to have searched on line, i installed the packages: bosybox free; busybox installer; connectbot; f-droid; framaroot; Libre FM; OpenVPN ; Root Verifier; SuperSU; Terminal Emulator; VimTouch; VLC; Yaaic
Dec 29 06:20:35 <natsukao1> it is a mobile phone with Android 4.1, i would like to know how to set up r&d
Dec 29 06:20:56 <natsukao1> do you know how to do on Android ?
Dec 29 06:28:24 <bef0rd> r&d mode is a maemo thing
Dec 29 06:30:08 <bef0rd> on android to get root you use 1. exploits 2. unlocked bootloaders not sure what else, you have to search for your specific device
Dec 29 06:33:47 <natsukao1> eh eh
Dec 29 06:33:48 <natsukao1> :-)
Dec 29 06:33:48 <natsukao1> this is the problem
Dec 29 06:33:48 <natsukao1> seems i am the thir person in the www which is working on it
Dec 29 06:40:25 <bef0rd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85JdFgSgtWI
Dec 29 06:59:58 <natsukao1> i am replying to that short movie
Dec 29 07:29:14 <natsukao1> i know thanks to adb, and thanks to busybox, which are the specs of my hardware, then i installed cpu-z, it was only a package that is a little more complete than cat /proc/cpuinfo and cat/proc/meminfo
Dec 29 07:29:27 <natsukao1> but really does the same things
Dec 29 07:32:33 <natsukao1> i love you "dmsg"
Dec 29 07:32:46 <natsukao1> i love you "busybox"
Dec 29 11:49:15 <Sicelo> please help me with setting up Scratchbox
Dec 29 11:50:16 <Sicelo> seems to be installed ok, but now i need the Nokia binaries. I don't know how to get around set 12.1/12.2 in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Dec 29 11:50:41 <Sicelo> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer rather
Dec 29 12:01:32 <Hurrian> alright, i gotta admit it, i take back everything I said about MAFW sucking hard.
Dec 29 12:01:54 <Hurrian> after trying to go android for a few days, I simply can't.
Dec 29 12:02:21 <Hurrian> believe it or not, Android is more broken than Maemo/MeeGo is.
Dec 29 12:02:55 <Hurrian> among others, the sound pipeline just breaks when having multiple streams playing at the same time D:
Dec 29 12:03:48 <SiceloSB> you sure it's not just the android device you tested on?
Dec 29 12:04:04 <Hurrian> SiceloSB: GalaxyS2 and Note 2.
Dec 29 12:04:13 <SiceloSB> :p
Dec 29 12:04:27 <Hurrian> I usually have them sitting on my desk, either as portable internet browsers, or dev devices.
Dec 29 12:04:57 <Hurrian> before I tried them out, I had my N9 as a daily driver phone - and as a phone it is amazing.
Dec 29 12:05:29 <SiceloSB> that's great. Maemo ftw! 
Dec 29 12:05:32 <Hurrian> can't really say much for its use outside that, but you can see the amount of polish Harmattan has.
Dec 29 12:07:40 <SiceloSB> i'm still on N900, as a daily (and only) device
Dec 29 12:07:46 <SiceloSB> still loving it
Dec 29 12:10:07 <SiceloSB> Hurrian: would you be able to help me in connection with Scratchbox?
Dec 29 12:11:22 <Hurrian> SiceloSB: What issue, exactly?
Dec 29 12:11:25 <Sicelo> 11:49 < Sicelo> please help me with setting up Scratchbox
Dec 29 12:11:27 <Sicelo> 11:50 < Sicelo> seems to be installed ok, but now i need the Nokia binaries. I don't know how to get around set 12.1/12.2 in
Dec 29 12:11:32 <Sicelo> 11:50 < Sicelo> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer
Dec 29 12:11:51 <SiceloSB> can't figure out how the get the nokia binaries installed
Dec 29 12:13:53 <Hurrian> shouldn't it be up at skeiron?
Dec 29 12:14:24 <SiceloSB> i can't really tell which ones :$
Dec 29 12:15:42 <Hurrian> deb http://skeiron.org/repo/repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/4bc37c7c77ebe90177c050b805a8dc79 nokia-binaries ?
Dec 29 12:17:31 <Sicelo> yay! that looks like it. thanks. let me see what happens
Dec 29 12:23:59 <Sicelo> thankssss :)
Dec 29 12:24:04 <Sicelo> installing atm
Dec 29 12:28:00 <Sicelo> quick one, is it ok to put this on the wiki, or it we just don't want to get in 'trouble' with nokia?
Dec 29 13:09:06 <antithesis_> Is there a Maemo device with both a capacitive touch screen and a hardware keyboard?
Dec 29 13:09:26 <antithesis_> Or can I see a list of Maemo devices somewhere?
Dec 29 13:09:31 <Hurrian> antithesis_: if the N950 counts, then it is
Dec 29 13:09:49 <antithesis_> Why would it not count?
Dec 29 13:10:05 <antithesis_> Oh, because I can't get one for myself
Dec 29 13:10:06 <antithesis_> Hmpf.
Dec 29 13:11:22 <antithesis_> A resistive touch screen means no multi-touch, right?
Dec 29 13:11:32 <Hurrian> yep.
Dec 29 13:17:16 <SiceloSB> Hurrian: is it 'normal
Dec 29 13:17:52 <SiceloSB> Hurrian: is it 'normal' to not have XTerm when starting the UI framework with the i386 target in Scratchbox?
Dec 29 13:18:26 <Hurrian> SiceloSB: should be included, try installing the package
Dec 29 13:19:44 <SiceloSB> ok. thanks. will see. otherwise the basic UI does load :)
Dec 29 13:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> SiceloSB: possibly the latter
Dec 29 13:21:47 <DocScrutinizer05> to your quick one
Dec 29 13:22:41 <SiceloSB> ok DocScrutinizer05. i wanted to put it in the wiki. guess we'll leave it as it is
Dec 29 13:23:14 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh, who cares
Dec 29 13:23:17 <DocScrutinizer05> go ahead
Dec 29 13:26:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard all that stuff is on torrents as well, and probably also on a dozen of other mirrors
Dec 29 13:34:26 <antithesis_> Can Maemo be used primarily with the keyboard, without generally using the touch screen?
Dec 29 13:34:50 <FIQ> touchscreen is needed
Dec 29 13:35:05 <FIQ> there's unusually many keyboard shortcuts
Dec 29 13:35:25 <FIQ> compared to most hw-kbd:ed phones
Dec 29 13:35:28 <FIQ> but you can't avoid the touchscreen fully
Dec 29 13:35:28 <antithesis_> What are examples of things I can't do without the touch screen?
Dec 29 13:35:47 <FIQ> well
Dec 29 13:36:04 <FIQ> fire up programs which lack shortcuts
Dec 29 13:36:16 <FIQ> as a start
Dec 29 13:36:37 <FIQ> use the browser
Dec 29 13:36:54 <FIQ> close programs
Dec 29 13:37:17 <FIQ> (unless you go via xterm, which is silly)
Dec 29 13:37:30 <antithesis_> Nah, xterm is fine
Dec 29 13:37:31 <FIQ> etc
Dec 29 13:37:37 <FIQ> the list goes on
Dec 29 13:37:40 <antithesis_> I'll just pkill all the programs
Dec 29 13:37:45 <FIQ> xterm... for closing apps?
Dec 29 13:37:47 <FIQ> why
Dec 29 13:37:53 <FIQ> also
Dec 29 13:37:58 <antithesis_> Because it lets me avoid the touch screen
Dec 29 13:38:03 <FIQ> you can use xterm to start apps too
Dec 29 13:38:05 <FIQ> :
Dec 29 13:38:07 <FIQ> *:D
Dec 29 13:38:22 <FIQ> but applications which require TS use
Dec 29 13:38:22 <antithesis_> Can I switch between applications without using the touch screen?
Dec 29 13:38:30 <FIQ> obviously wont work w/o one
Dec 29 13:38:40 <antithesis_> What's TS?
Dec 29 13:38:45 <FIQ> Not sure - iirc there was some application which allowed you to
Dec 29 13:38:51 <FIQ> with ctrl+directions
Dec 29 13:38:57 <FIQ> touch screen
Dec 29 13:39:02 <antithesis_> oh
Dec 29 13:39:11 <FIQ> but
Dec 29 13:39:22 <FIQ> using N900 w/o touch screen
Dec 29 13:39:27 <FIQ> cripples you badly
Dec 29 13:39:36 <FIQ> any particular reason you want to do this?
Dec 29 13:39:42 <FIQ> also
Dec 29 13:39:44 <antithesis_> Because I hate touch screens. :)
Dec 29 13:39:49 <FIQ> if you have a locked SIM
Dec 29 13:39:59 <FIQ> good luck getting past PIN entry
Dec 29 13:40:14 <FIQ> not sure you can write it with the keyboard
Dec 29 13:40:35 <FIQ> but yes
Dec 29 13:40:36 <antithesis_> Can I see a list of packages available for Maemo through apt somewhere?
Dec 29 13:40:48 <FIQ> if you passionately refuse to use the touchscreen
Dec 29 13:40:55 <FIQ> you can
Dec 29 13:40:58 <FIQ> but it wont be fun
Dec 29 13:41:01 <FIQ> just saying
Dec 29 13:41:06 <FIQ> well
Dec 29 13:41:15 <FIQ> there's apt-cache search | less
Dec 29 13:41:28 <antithesis_> Yeah, but I don't have a Maemo device right now, obviously
Dec 29 13:41:54 <antithesis_> I'm looking for a smartphone to buy and my main requirement is that I can operate it with the keyboard
Dec 29 13:42:07 <FIQ> well
Dec 29 13:42:22 <FIQ> I wouldn't call maemo "usable without touchscreen"
Dec 29 13:42:30 <antithesis_> If I can install uzbl or vimprobable or some similar browser on it, I can use the browser without a touch screen
Dec 29 13:42:30 <FIQ> if that's what you're going for
Dec 29 13:42:40 <FIQ> you're looking at the wrong place tbh
Dec 29 13:42:43 <antithesis_> It depends on what programs I can install it
Dec 29 13:42:52 <antithesis_> Is there any right place for this?
Dec 29 13:43:15 <FIQ> no I mean you're probably looking at the wrong alternative
Dec 29 13:43:51 <antithesis_> Maemo is Debian-based, and Debian requires the least use of a pointer device
Dec 29 13:43:58 <ShadowJK> I don't think such a thing exists anymore
Dec 29 13:43:59 <antithesis_> That's why it seems right to me to look at Maemo
Dec 29 13:44:42 <FIQ> antithesis_: oh you're looking for an open phone specifically
Dec 29 13:44:54 <antithesis_> Yeah
Dec 29 13:45:07 <antithesis_> But the Neo900 isn't out yet and it's expensive
Dec 29 13:45:12 <FIQ> I just thought you wanted a non-touch phone, in which case S60 would probably be of more use
Dec 29 13:45:35 <FIQ> but that's stone age :D
Dec 29 13:45:37 <FIQ> anyway
Dec 29 13:45:42 <FIQ> there's lynx
Dec 29 13:45:47 <FIQ> and probably w3m as well
Dec 29 13:46:08 <FIQ> not sure if there's gui browsers that doesn't require touch screen in maemo's repositories
Dec 29 13:46:16 <FIQ> you can always make your own ;)
Dec 29 13:46:22 <antithesis_> Can I check that for myself anywhere?
Dec 29 13:46:28 <antithesis_> I'd rather port an existing one
Dec 29 13:47:45 <FIQ> you can check the repositories at maemo.org directly yes
Dec 29 13:47:50 <FIQ> if that's what you're asking
Dec 29 13:47:54 <FIQ> Also
Dec 29 13:47:59 <FIQ> System upgrades
Dec 29 13:48:09 <FIQ> i.e. equavilent of dist-upgrade
Dec 29 13:48:26 <FIQ> is strongly recommended to be done via hildon-application-manager
Dec 29 13:48:38 <FIQ> because it does some tricky stuff that apt* doesn't do on its' own
Dec 29 13:48:46 <FIQ> and it requires touch use :p
Dec 29 13:49:08 <antithesis_> I can live with that
Dec 29 13:49:55 <ShadowJK> repository.maemo.org iirc
Dec 29 13:50:33 <antithesis_> Yeah I found it
Dec 29 13:51:49 <antithesis_> Wait, can't I just emulate Debian on it?
Dec 29 13:52:02 <antithesis_> Easy Debian
Dec 29 13:54:31 <antithesis_> Is that a complete Debian system with access to all its packages?
Dec 29 13:54:43 <ShadowJK> more or less
Dec 29 13:55:55 <antithesis_> Isn't that a bit heavy for such a device?
Dec 29 13:58:20 <ShadowJK> also squeezing it into 800*480 on 3.5" area is a bit tight
Dec 29 14:00:39 <Sicelo> so looks like my Maemo is kaput inside SB. How to remove all Maemo stuff in it to reinstall nokia binaries?
Dec 29 14:02:03 <FIQ> [14:55:56] <antithesis_> Isn't that a bit heavy for such a device?
Dec 29 14:02:08 <FIQ> well it works
Dec 29 14:02:15 <FIQ> but it's a bit slow
Dec 29 14:02:29 <FIQ> if you run too itensive stuff
Dec 29 14:02:53 <FIQ> works just fine for terminal applications and/or simpler gui ones though
Dec 29 14:26:30 <antithesis_> Okay, looks pretty fucking nice to me
Dec 29 14:26:32 <antithesis_> ShadowJK: more or less
Dec 29 14:26:33 <antithesis_> Explain?
Dec 29 14:27:51 <Sicelo> you can't upgrade some of the stuff, eg gconf2 (or smething like it)
Dec 29 15:14:54 <Sicelo|SB> :)
Dec 29 15:15:07 <Sicelo|SB> have successfully built irssi with perl support in scratchbox 
Dec 29 15:15:08 <Sicelo|SB> :)
Dec 29 15:15:28 <Sicelo|SB> unfortunately, can't seem to see how to make it work in the ARMEL target too
Dec 29 15:19:04 <FIQ> doesn't irssi already exist in repositories?
Dec 29 15:30:59 <Sicelo> FIQ: it does. no perl support though :(
Dec 29 15:32:12 <FIQ> oh ok
Dec 29 16:22:18 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: switching between programs and closing programs is easy via hw-kbd in MHD
Dec 29 16:25:22 <DocScrutinizer05> antithesis_: rather "more" than "less" :-)
Dec 29 16:26:26 <DocScrutinizer05> btw on maemo diablo (N810) you could get away without using touchscreen for almost all sitations. With fremantle they messed that up and I blamed that from beginning
Dec 29 16:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I however guess you could implement a mouse emu, to move a cursor with the cursor keys for example, and "press mouse butten2 via e.g. the spacebar
Dec 29 16:27:57 <DocScrutinizer05> or even use accelerometer based guestures to move the cursor ;-)
Dec 29 16:58:06 <antithesis_> Heh, reminds me of Dasher, an input application that can be controlled fully with the accelerometer
Dec 29 16:58:13 <antithesis_> It's interesting, but not really worth the trouble
Dec 29 16:58:20 <antithesis_> DocScrutinizer05: what's MHD?
Dec 29 16:58:35 <DocScrutinizer05> modified hildon desktop
Dec 29 16:58:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ~mhd
Dec 29 16:58:57 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
Dec 29 16:59:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ping
Dec 29 16:59:08 <infobot> ~pong
Dec 29 16:59:55 <DocScrutinizer05> MHD comes with CSSU per default, since it is used to fix several bugs/flaws in standard/stock HD
Dec 29 17:00:22 <DocScrutinizer05> it's basically the desktop manager of maemo
Dec 29 17:01:02 <antithesis_> ±CSSU
Dec 29 17:01:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Dec 29 17:01:08 <infobot> cssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Dec 29 17:01:14 <antithesis_> Thanks
Dec 29 17:01:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Dec 29 17:01:24 <infobot> from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Dec 29 17:01:28 <antithesis_> This is a hackintosh, I don't know where the tilde button is, lol
Dec 29 17:01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Dec 29 17:02:00 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: cssu
Dec 29 17:02:02 <infobot> hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Dec 29 17:02:20 <antithesis_> N810 is too weak a device for me
Dec 29 17:02:28 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Dec 29 17:04:35 <antithesis_> Serious question: how come Maemo isn't that popular? It seems a lot more capable and advanced than Android
Dec 29 17:04:44 <antithesis_> Does it have to do with marketing or something?
Dec 29 17:05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> see jrtools >>
Dec 29 17:05:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ##   OBSOLETE with CSSU, so now commented out #o#   #####
Dec 29 17:05:27 <DocScrutinizer05> # fix annoying hildon-desktop cpu hog bug
Dec 29 17:06:11 <DocScrutinizer05> antithesis_: it's not easy to port maemo to any new hw platform, due to the amount of nokia proprietary closed blobs in userland
Dec 29 17:06:44 <DocScrutinizer05> actually until 6 months ago I claimed it was impossible
Dec 29 17:08:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see
Dec 29 17:08:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ## http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html
Dec 29 17:08:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see
Dec 29 17:08:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ## http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html
Dec 29 17:08:32 <DocScrutinizer05> oops sorry
Dec 29 17:08:51 <antithesis_> Well, doesn't Nokia want it to be ported?
Dec 29 17:09:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nokia never bothered about FOSS really, and for sure had no (commercial) interest for maemo to be portable
Dec 29 17:09:36 <antithesis_> I can see why Apple is like that; they make a lot of profit by forcing people to buy their hardware. But isn't it in Nokia's advantage if more people use it?
Dec 29 17:09:58 <DocScrutinizer05> no, since Nokia also sells hardware
Dec 29 17:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> just like Jolla does
Dec 29 17:11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> so all those companies actually try to exploit/abuse FOSS/linux for their own commercial interests
Dec 29 17:11:43 <DocScrutinizer05> when they write any piece of software to better support their product, they have no motivation to make it FOSS
Dec 29 17:12:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia - driven/pushed by Quim Gill - once tried to be different regarding this
Dec 29 17:12:57 <DocScrutinizer05> but they never really arrived where they claimed to aim at
Dec 29 17:13:49 <SiceloSB_> where is QGill nowadays?
Dec 29 17:13:56 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea
Dec 29 17:14:36 <antithesis_> I'm pretty sure Google is making a lot of profit from Android, even though it's open-source, though
Dec 29 17:14:48 <SiceloSB_> lol antithesis_ 
Dec 29 17:14:54 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia went mad, community gone toxic, he turned away and does different stuff now, I guess
Dec 29 17:15:25 <warfare> antithesis_: Android isn't open source - all the important bits are in "Google Play services" 
Dec 29 17:15:33 <DocScrutinizer05> HI warfare!!!
Dec 29 17:15:39 <warfare> Hey DocScrutinizer05  :) 
Dec 29 17:15:40 <DocScrutinizer05> long time no see!
Dec 29 17:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> all fine at your end?
Dec 29 17:15:54 <warfare> been busy building 30C3 network :) 
Dec 29 17:15:59 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah sure
Dec 29 17:16:22 <antithesis_> Do devices ship with these bits?
Dec 29 17:16:34 <DocScrutinizer05> which bits?
Dec 29 17:16:41 <antithesis_> The important proprietary bits
Dec 29 17:16:46 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Dec 29 17:16:47 <warfare> antithesis_: Sure, if they are "Google approved" 
Dec 29 17:16:51 <antithesis_> AFAIK, you can still have a working Android system without those bits
Dec 29 17:17:42 <DocScrutinizer05> Android is a whole different annoying topic
Dec 29 17:17:48 <antithesis_> But the point is, other manufacturers use Android on their devices and Google is encouraging that, not opposing
Dec 29 17:17:59 <antithesis_> Why can't that be the case with Maemo?
Dec 29 17:18:14 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, Goggle made their business model base on a different concept
Dec 29 17:18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> but htey fsckd up linux thoroughly before that, so it's not even worth discussing the benefits of android
Dec 29 17:20:58 <FIQ> <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: switching between programs and closing programs is easy via hw-kbd in MHD
Dec 29 17:21:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia been building and selling hardware, so their approach to maemo linux been centric to their hardware. While Google started with a business model that didn't even involve Google selling hardware at all
Dec 29 17:21:14 <FIQ> MHD?
Dec 29 17:21:30 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: can you read backscroll?
Dec 29 17:21:30 <antithesis_> Already been asked
Dec 29 17:21:34 <antithesis_> lol
Dec 29 17:21:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys mhd
Dec 29 17:21:56 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: yeah I saw it
Dec 29 17:21:57 <infobot> Factoid search of 'mhd' by key (1): mhdns.
Dec 29 17:22:06 <DocScrutinizer05> weird
Dec 29 17:22:34 <FIQ> how do you switch between applications and close them?
Dec 29 17:22:37 <FIQ> assuming installed CSSU
Dec 29 17:22:45 <FIQ> IIRC it was something like ctrl+arrows
Dec 29 17:22:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo MHD is Modified Hildon Desktop. See ~CSSU and http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html
Dec 29 17:22:49 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Dec 29 17:23:04 <FIQ> but I never got it to work when trying when antithesis_ brought it up
Dec 29 17:23:20 <antithesis_> http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/catalog-reveals-nsa-has-back-doors-for-numerous-devices-a-940994.html
Dec 29 17:23:22 <antithesis_> nice.
Dec 29 17:24:48 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: see ~jrtools
Dec 29 17:25:21 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-12-29 18:05:24] <DocScrutinizer05> ##   OBSOLETE with CSSU, so now commented out #o#   #####
Dec 29 17:25:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ff
Dec 29 17:25:43 <FIQ> ~jrtools
Dec 29 17:25:44 <infobot> i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Dec 29 17:26:18 <DocScrutinizer05> # set ctl-BS to my preferred operation mode, '
Dec 29 17:26:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ##     also for CSSU!!'   ##
Dec 29 17:34:39 <FIQ> can I disable trackerd fully?
Dec 29 17:35:10 <zammy> there was an earthquake dudes
Dec 29 17:35:16 <zammy> I felt it on my skin
Dec 29 17:35:22 <zammy> just few minutes ago
Dec 29 17:35:32 <zammy> in naples near Rome
Dec 29 17:39:22 <Ashley`> hi there
Dec 29 17:39:58 <Ashley`> I have a question about making keyboard maps for Nokia N900
Dec 29 17:40:47 <Ashley`> Can I bind some key (eogonek (ę) for example) to camera shutter half-press + e?
Dec 29 17:41:45 <Sicelo> FIQ: i should think yes.. but then you will not see anything in Media Player, Photos, etc
Dec 29 17:44:40 <zammy> 9km SW of campobasso deep 10km and magnitude 5 and more
Dec 29 17:44:52 <zammy> to me all is fine
Dec 29 17:44:56 <zammy> thanks to god
Dec 29 17:45:04 <zammy> but well felt
Dec 29 17:45:59 <kerio> zammy: my mom was telling me about it
Dec 29 17:46:14 <zammy> you know the datas now
Dec 29 17:51:32 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: antithesis_: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/media/MHD_demo_20090108_001.mp4
Dec 29 17:52:37 <FIQ> <Sicelo> FIQ: i should think yes.. but then you will not see anything in Media Player, Photos, etc
Dec 29 17:52:40 <FIQ> this is not an issue
Dec 29 17:52:44 <FIQ> because I never used these
Dec 29 17:53:14 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: trackerd.conf
Dec 29 17:53:44 <DocScrutinizer05> should offer sufficent ways to reduce or completely stop trackerd from indexing
Dec 29 17:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> re *.mp4 above, sorry for messed up mimetype. You prolly will need to download the file to playback from local storage
Dec 29 17:56:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Ashley`: I doubt that works
Dec 29 17:56:40 <DocScrutinizer05> cam trigger is not a good modifier key for key mappings
Dec 29 17:56:46 <Ashley`> Why not?
Dec 29 17:56:58 <Ashley`> It is unused when not in camera app
Dec 29 17:57:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^
Dec 29 17:57:24 <Ashley`> and camera app doesn't need keyboard, I think
Dec 29 17:57:37 <DocScrutinizer05> unlike vol+/- which are F7/8 iirc, cam trigger is completely unknown to kbd drivers
Dec 29 17:57:46 <Ashley`> Ah
Dec 29 17:57:49 <Ashley`> ok.
Dec 29 17:57:55 <Ashley`> :c
Dec 29 17:59:02 <ShadowJK> Also proximity and camdoor are unknown to kbd :P
Dec 29 17:59:08 <DocScrutinizer05> *maybe* you could come up with a method that would detect cam trigger activation and execute some binary that loads a different keymap
Dec 29 17:59:31 <Ashley`> DocScrutinizer05, pressing that key shows up in dmesg
Dec 29 17:59:41 <Ashley`> I'll try
Dec 29 17:59:47 <DocScrutinizer05> but you will want to male sure that the standard keymap gets loaded eventually ;-)
Dec 29 18:00:04 <Ashley`> yeah, I know :P
Dec 29 18:00:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Ashley`: you probably can get the event from dbus or at least from HAL
Dec 29 18:00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> no need to grep dmesg
Dec 29 18:00:59 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: wow, ty for the hints @ ctrl+BS-setup
Dec 29 18:01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Dec 29 18:01:10 <FIQ> this was far more powerful than I thought
Dec 29 18:01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, pretty convenient
Dec 29 18:01:46 <FIQ> but I have some trouble with roll-backward, it seems to have trouble deciding wtf to do with it
Dec 29 18:01:53 <Ashley`> DocScrutinizer05, hmmm there is dbus event for it
Dec 29 18:01:56 <FIQ> oh well, just the "roll forward" option is probably enough for what I'll use mostly
Dec 29 18:02:03 <Ashley`> DocScrutinizer05, thanks :)
Dec 29 18:02:12 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Dec 29 18:02:42 <FIQ> oh
Dec 29 18:02:45 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: the trick is to hold down either BS or ctrl, and push-release the other button of both
Dec 29 18:02:47 <FIQ> I think I see the issue with roll-backward
Dec 29 18:03:03 <FIQ> there's no "stop" before it goes into repeat-key
Dec 29 18:03:23 <FIQ> and thus, just mildly pressing ctrl makes programs switch way too much
Dec 29 18:03:39 <DocScrutinizer05> push-and-hold: ctrl, BS. Release: ctrl
Dec 29 18:03:45 <DocScrutinizer05> all in 0.5s
Dec 29 18:04:09 <DocScrutinizer05> then push-release ctrl will scroll backwards
Dec 29 18:04:19 <FIQ> yes I know, but
Dec 29 18:04:31 <FIQ> if I push ctrl, applications like to scroll a lot more than just once
Dec 29 18:04:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ugh
Dec 29 18:04:48 <DocScrutinizer05> too fast key repeat
Dec 29 18:04:48 <FIQ> this is not the case with backspace hold
Dec 29 18:05:09 <FIQ> there's no delay before key repeat triggers for ctrl
Dec 29 18:05:11 <FIQ> it seems
Dec 29 18:05:16 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Dec 29 18:05:18 <FIQ> unlike for BS
Dec 29 18:05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I had no problems
Dec 29 18:05:32 <FIQ> (roll-forward works just fine for me, not roll-backward, that's where issues arise)
Dec 29 18:05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Dec 29 18:05:46 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
Dec 29 18:08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, you noticed you also can select with "qweasd" and close with shift-qweasd
Dec 29 18:08:25 <FIQ> yeah I saw that
Dec 29 18:08:29 <FIQ> in the comments
Dec 29 18:08:34 <FIQ> of jrtools
Dec 29 18:09:10 <FIQ> will it adjust if I have, say 8 applications open?
Dec 29 18:09:16 <FIQ> to mimic taskswitcher's window I mean
Dec 29 18:09:23 <FIQ> s/window/interface/
Dec 29 18:09:23 <infobot> FIQ meant: to mimic taskswitcher's interface I mean
Dec 29 18:09:32 <FIQ> i.e. qwer for first 4, asdf for bottom 4
Dec 29 18:09:44 <FIQ> let's see
Dec 29 18:10:01 <DocScrutinizer05> which makes amaizing sense considering that when app doesn't know about ctrl-Q, you can send a close-window event via ctrl-(BS+Q)
Dec 29 18:10:21 <antithesis_> DocScrutinizer05:  thanks
Dec 29 18:10:25 <antithesis_> That's the kind of shit I like
Dec 29 18:10:30 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Dec 29 18:10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> me too
Dec 29 18:11:17 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: can I make it remember window order from activity?
Dec 29 18:11:28 <FIQ> rather than from opening order
Dec 29 18:12:01 <FIQ> hm
Dec 29 18:12:05 <FIQ> strange
Dec 29 18:12:26 <DocScrutinizer05> it sorts by activity already, afaik
Dec 29 18:12:29 <FIQ> it seems like when I open taskswitcher, what I just had open ends up last in the list
Dec 29 18:12:39 <FIQ> and the one I had 2nd opened appears first
Dec 29 18:12:46 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Dec 29 18:13:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ctrl-BS always switches back to last task opened
Dec 29 18:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> active
Dec 29 18:13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> switch back and forth between two windows is a breeze
Dec 29 18:19:18 <FIQ> hm
Dec 29 18:19:36 <FIQ> would be convenient if N900's menu could be used as a runner
Dec 29 18:19:54 <FIQ> (and preferably be easily accessible too without touch :p)
Dec 29 18:22:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, I pondered long and often about augmenting MHD to take a kbd shortcut to jump from taskswitcher to appstarter menu, and there use cursor keays to move around a highlight that gets selected when pressing enter or space key
Dec 29 18:24:20 <FIQ> would be nice if you could just type the name, or at least something close to it (xc<enter> for xchat for example)
Dec 29 18:24:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, also a nice idea, but that thing is easy to implement
Dec 29 18:25:01 <DocScrutinizer05> just an app that does this for you
Dec 29 18:25:11 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't need to get integrated into HD
Dec 29 18:25:18 <FIQ> mhm
Dec 29 18:25:19 <FIQ> makes sense
Dec 29 18:25:50 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe such thing already exists
Dec 29 18:26:19 <DocScrutinizer05> quickstarter or whatever
Dec 29 18:26:35 <DocScrutinizer05> check apps, package interface
Dec 29 18:26:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~pkg
Dec 29 18:26:39 <infobot> somebody said pkg was http://maemo.org/packages/
Dec 29 18:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> search for start, or launch
Dec 29 18:27:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I never checked
Dec 29 18:27:57 * FIQ searched runner
Dec 29 18:28:31 * DocScrutinizer05 curses his internet, his NATs/routers (plural!), his KDE, and generally everything internet
Dec 29 18:29:17 <DocScrutinizer05> for unclear reasins refreshing of e.g. tmo windows takes forever, plus 5 times hitting F5
Dec 29 18:30:11 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly rlated to friggin DNS
Dec 29 18:30:31 <FIQ> powerlaunch seemed to have what I looked for (kinda, don't know how it exactly worked), and then it's just for diablo :p
Dec 29 18:30:37 <DocScrutinizer05> stupid DHCP
Dec 29 18:32:53 <FIQ> hm, found something, but when actually looking for what it was, I found this interesting TMO thread as the only source of information of what it actually did: "[processstarter] wont start"
Dec 29 22:01:22 <ShadowJK> I discovered a dns issue in my setup today
Dec 29 22:01:35 <ShadowJK> Primary dns was typoed to 127.0.1.1
Dec 29 22:02:03 <ShadowJK> So everything not recently accessed too 5 seconds for 127.0.1.1 to timeout before asking secondary dns server. :)
Dec 29 23:27:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: you know they hack eMMC controller firmware now?
Dec 29 23:27:53 <ShadowJK> nop
Dec 29 23:28:14 <DocScrutinizer05> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2096045
Dec 29 23:28:28 <ShadowJK> Some samsung microsds that bunniestudios decapped contained an ARM core inside :)
Dec 29 23:28:58 <DocScrutinizer05> M3
Dec 29 23:29:08 <DocScrutinizer05> M4?
Dec 29 23:30:53 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil: ^ should be interesting for you too
Dec 29 23:30:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I really start giggling when thinking about RMS and his FSF-certified laptop that for sure also has at least 2 or 3 controllers that are considered "chips" but actually can change their firmware
Dec 29 23:35:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: (127.0.1.1) sounds pretty much similar to my problem, judging by symptoms. OTOH I think 127.x.x.x is all supposed to be LOCALHOST
Dec 29 23:37:45 <DocScrutinizer05> actually localhost (servernames and uppercase don't go together well)
Dec 29 23:38:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I learned the hard way when trying to name a server L2.domain.tld
Dec 29 23:39:02 <Hurrian> whoa, that's pretty cool - they put ARM cores in eMMCs now?
Dec 29 23:39:04 <DocScrutinizer05> which broke munin
Dec 29 23:39:20 <kerio> Hurrian: it's cheaper than shipping perfect flash chips
Dec 29 23:39:21 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Dec 29 23:39:31 <Hurrian> looks like SSD-style wear leveling has hit the low-end :D
Dec 29 23:39:56 <DocScrutinizer05> always did
Dec 29 23:40:02 <ShadowJK> Hurrian; well
Dec 29 23:40:41 <ShadowJK> CF, SD, uSD have had arm cores and other uCs for 5-10 years
Dec 29 23:41:11 <ShadowJK> Kingston actually has a controller desgiend from scratch, but they rarely use it, and it sucks
Dec 29 23:41:59 <Hurrian> Counting down to when people use them as complete system-on-package...
Dec 29 23:42:47 <ShadowJK> Oh, that exists
Dec 29 23:43:23 <ShadowJK> wifi+linux system in a SD card form factor, iirc
Dec 29 23:43:56 <Hurrian> those WiFi SD cards run Linux?
Dec 29 23:45:02 <ShadowJK> "electric imp"
Dec 29 23:47:44 <Hurrian> wow, there are ARM cores in everything now...
Dec 29 23:50:13 <ShadowJK> worth keeping in mind that arm scales very small
Dec 30 00:30:04 <b1101> there isn't a buy/sell n900 thing in this channel right ?
Dec 30 00:31:34 <ShadowJK> it's probably a bit low volume for that
Dec 30 00:33:01 <b1101> How much should I pay for a mint n900 with all accessories ? Looking at one on ebay. I've already contributed to the neo900 project, but can't stand using android anymore. I want my rights back :).
Dec 30 00:33:57 <ShadowJK> I would personally pay 150 without accessories
Dec 30 00:34:13 <ShadowJK> maybe 200
Dec 30 00:36:01 <b1101> I like that this one is legitimate. Good pics show it's made in finland and all. I purchased a fake months ago, and was really upset.
Dec 30 00:40:25 <bef0rd> they could use legit pics and fake device though
Dec 30 00:40:35 <bef0rd> I guess ebay/paypal protects you from that
Dec 30 00:41:43 <b1101> ya, ebay is usually on the customers side
Dec 30 00:45:45 <ShadowJK> The main batch were actually made in Korea, iirc
Dec 30 01:14:56 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: indeed.
Dec 30 01:16:53 * SpeedEvil sighs and wishes he had the energy to do stuff that required coherent thought for more than a few minutes a day.
Dec 30 01:18:11 <SpeedEvil> (Hence lack of doing interesting stuff like paying more attention to neo900 or proper involvment with jolla, or...) 
Dec 30 01:22:39 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 30 01:23:20 * ShadowJK has spent his past 2 or so weeks of time off work mostly in bed silently cursing himself for not getting anything useful done
Dec 30 01:27:20 <b1101> ^in the same situation
Dec 30 02:09:12 * SpeedEvil has had his AC for ~2 weeks or so, and been unable to install it.
Dec 30 02:10:27 <SpeedEvil> On a more sort-of-on-topic point - it raises the other issue (which is not strictly required but is made easier) - attacks based on fuzzing responses from the card - not data, but return codes, and packet formats.
Dec 30 02:25:31 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: AC?
Dec 30 02:28:01 <SpeedEvil> Air conditioning - for heating. Heat pump - COP 5.7 - to make it so I can actually heat this place to a reasonable level.
Dec 30 02:28:19 <SpeedEvil> (10C in here) 
Dec 30 02:29:12 <FIQ> iirc only prototype N900s were made in finland?
Dec 30 02:31:51 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds about right
Dec 30 02:33:43 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: I think a heating should improve your activity
Dec 30 02:33:53 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: It doesn't.
Dec 30 02:34:17 <DocScrutinizer05> at 10°C I also wouldn't be able to concentrate on anything
Dec 30 02:34:30 <SpeedEvil> I'm on the sofa in a nice warm electric blanket.
Dec 30 02:34:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, but that also automatically immobilzes you
Dec 30 02:35:04 <SpeedEvil> Actually too hot at the moment. The problem is that I wobble when I get up to do anything, and my head is feeling packed by cotton wool. 
Dec 30 02:35:24 <DocScrutinizer05> dang
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 30 02:59:58 2013