**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 03 02:59:59 2014 Jan 03 04:31:26 DocScrutinizer05: you remember my old battery issue I had last month or something like that? Jan 03 04:31:37 I think I might know what caused it in first place Jan 03 04:32:04 these springs that are used to keep the battery safe in place Jan 03 04:32:33 they kinda "scrape" the battery each time I insert it Jan 03 04:33:10 is it possible that this could have caused damage to the top part of the battery, progressively increasing it to the point that inserting it causes visible sparks? Jan 03 04:34:03 I'm a bit concerned about my other (still working) batteries if this is the case Jan 03 04:34:15 if I can somehow minimize that damage Jan 03 08:16:32 moin :) Jan 03 10:09:15 FIQ: there are spring latches at bottom of battery (bay) only, none on top Jan 03 10:11:29 it's hard to believe those spring latches could grind through the ~1mm black plastic at bottom of battery. It's actaully impossible that this happens in a way you couldn't easily detect optically and tactile Jan 03 10:17:03 it sparked at bottom of battery? Jan 03 10:17:41 FIQ: btw those latches are polished shiny smooth steel in my device. No idea how they could grind trougj plastic Jan 03 10:17:54 ShadowJK: that's what FIQ reported, yes Jan 03 10:18:02 Oh he mentioned top part though? Jan 03 10:18:02 iirc Jan 03 10:18:16 I assumed he meant part with terminals Jan 03 10:18:19 I think that's lost-in-translation Jan 03 10:24:11 What kind and size of spark anyway Jan 03 10:27:28 singulary event, not clearly and closely observed Jan 03 10:27:44 but reported to have been happened before Jan 03 10:30:13 I can't recall any better searchterms for chanlog than "spark" and maybe "explode" Jan 03 10:33:25 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:21:12 Jan 03 10:34:56 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:40:23 Jan 03 10:38:08 ShadowJK: clearly FIQ says "at the end of battery without contacts, where the hologram is" Jan 03 10:45:31 'morning Jan 03 10:45:36 I'd suspect static discharge then Jan 03 10:45:40 moinmoin xes Jan 03 10:45:57 There's label, plastic caswe, and lipo pouch to wear through. seems unlikely Jan 03 10:47:39 it seems that sometimes my devices boots up in a wrong way generating errors that no one reported so far... Mmm it's not a good thing.. Jan 03 10:47:44 ShadowJK: hardly, since a) capacity of the battery to global ground doesn't suffice and b) when there could be any discharge spark at bottom end, then the contacts at top end already discharged any static charge between N900 and battery Jan 03 10:49:00 ShadowJK: and c) any such static would already discharge via human as conductor, touching both the phone and the battery Jan 03 10:49:58 when it can't discharge that way, it definitely won't *at bottom* of battery to the spring latches Jan 03 10:51:18 if someone else is experiencing strange audio problems and syslog errors like: "mafw-dbus-wrapper[1842]: dspvdec89: couldn't allocate buffer: wrong-state" "mafw-dbus-wrapper[1842]: dspvdec66: couldn't allocate buffer: not-linked" Only poweroff and battery removed seems to cure this.. Jan 03 10:52:20 my instant thought been that the small anode of the cell is at bottom of battery and the wire used to conect it to top of battery might have a short to the large anode aka containment, or a break that sparks when getting opened/closed Jan 03 10:52:52 xes: CSSU? Jan 03 10:52:57 KP? Jan 03 10:53:03 both Jan 03 10:54:01 ask pali and fmg. I'm pretty sure they had problems with some stuff not allocating correct amount/addr of static RAM for video decoding (done by DSP) Jan 03 10:55:16 dspvdev sounds like DSP Video DECoding, and buffer == RAM, needs allocation during DSP driver init Jan 03 10:55:44 it seems a rare dsp instability. This happens on boot and then stays there until battery removed. What i obtain is no notification and call's audio redirected to the speaker (without the possibility to switch) Jan 03 10:56:05 while video and mp3 playback are working fine Jan 03 10:56:11 o.O Jan 03 10:56:20 maybe some similar problem Jan 03 10:56:43 anyway buffers for DSP need to be contiguous and on a static addr Jan 03 10:57:17 sometimes it seems I recall there's no sufficiently large contiguous chunk of RAM available Jan 03 10:57:33 probably some issue initializing dsp on boot Jan 03 10:57:38 yes Jan 03 10:58:17 iirc Pali also di some quite suspicious messjg around with PA buffer sizes Jan 03 10:58:25 messing* Jan 03 10:58:57 sth like changing chunk size from 4k to 64k or sth Jan 03 10:59:26 I got maximum nervous when hearing about that Jan 03 10:59:40 btw, i have saved the syslog of the wrong boot maybe it could help Jan 03 10:59:51 :nod: Jan 03 11:00:20 try a sort and diff, to another sane bootlog Jan 03 11:00:46 if there are any now error msgs showing up Jan 03 11:00:50 new* Jan 03 11:01:32 some sed cmds to kick out variable stuff like timestamps might help Jan 03 11:02:54 also a uniq after the sed and sort Jan 03 11:03:08 DocScrutinizer05: just done. Please could you grep your syslog by "dspvdec0"? Jan 03 11:03:13 anode/cathode is multilayer sandwich surely.. though I forget if the pouch is positive or negative Jan 03 11:03:18 will do Jan 03 11:04:27 http://privatepaste.com/0c1cef6991 Jan 03 11:05:27 thanks! Jan 03 11:05:40 grep dspv -> same Jan 03 11:06:26 IroN900:~# uname -a Jan 03 11:06:28 Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux Jan 03 11:08:24 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-community-pr Jan 03 11:08:25 mp-fremantle-community-pr: Jan 03 11:08:27 Installed: 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2 Jan 03 11:09:12 ShadowJK: yup Jan 03 11:12:51 ShadowJK: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p.74 Jan 03 11:14:09 pouch is positive Jan 03 11:20:59 btw this .prf is a nice example to give the wider public an idea how many 10000s of pages a complete doc for a device like N(eo)900 need careful scrutinization and a single line or even word you don't notice in there can break your neck Jan 03 11:22:30 it's also useful to start pondering if bme devels ever had a look into docs of this kind Jan 03 11:23:06 also: Jan 03 11:23:12 -batteryfaq Jan 03 11:23:22 ~batteryfaq Jan 03 11:23:23 i guess batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Jan 03 11:39:58 i had the bottom plastic simply fall out of the bottom of a few of my (bl-5j) batteries... but the only problem it causes is that there's not enough spring pressure and the contact becomes unreliable... so i just taped a pice of cardboard onto the bottom to fix it Jan 03 11:53:24 btw, Jolla battery comes pre overclocked to 4.35V :P Jan 03 16:17:33 people, when i use apmefo i was not able to rename the folders... so i downloaded the source code to see how/where it stores the folder names so that i can edit those straightaway Jan 03 16:18:08 this is what i found inside the source file (TODO) http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m Jan 03 16:18:08 and my apmefo is not looking the same as this http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m (2nd image) Jan 03 16:18:22 it looks old with manual select for all options Jan 03 16:18:29 the screenshot is an advanced version ? Jan 03 16:31:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ub7fc/finnish_smartphone_manufacturer_jolla_outselling/ did you hear? Jan 03 16:31:37 jolla is something i'm very concerned if it's going to suck or not Jan 03 16:34:08 read the headline but meh... need to actually see the device to have an opinion on it Jan 03 16:34:09 how do i access the opt folder or other folders from PC ? Jan 03 16:34:28 guess sshfs might work Jan 03 16:34:29 solofight: ssh? Jan 03 16:34:46 (or just some scp client) Jan 03 16:37:28 so i should run a ssh server in my nokia n900 then Jan 03 16:37:47 yep Jan 03 16:38:03 it is in the extras repo Jan 03 16:38:34 freemangordon: yeah got this link http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38820 will read, install follow and then come back if i have any issues Jan 03 16:38:37 just one more question Jan 03 16:38:43 hen i use apmefo i was not able to rename the folders... so i downloaded the source code to see how/where it stores the folder names so that i can edit those straightaway Jan 03 16:38:48 this is what i found inside the source file (TODO) http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m Jan 03 16:38:53 and my apmefo is not looking the same as this http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m (2nd image) Jan 03 16:38:58 it looks old with manual select for all options Jan 03 16:39:02 the screenshot is an advanced version ? Jan 03 16:39:06 solofight: you'd better as the maintainer Jan 03 16:39:17 not me, I am not using apfemo Jan 03 16:39:29 i am running apmefo_0.11-1_all.deb Jan 03 16:39:52 freemangordon: looks like the app does not have a maintainer since 3 years Jan 03 16:40:13 solofight: nothing I can do :) Jan 03 16:41:30 freemangordon: alright - since i was able to talk to you today.. DocScrutinizer05 told me to bug you for becoming the part of the FPTF Jan 03 16:41:50 where do i start, how can i contribute ? Jan 03 16:43:51 solofight: hmm, good questions. I guess contributing to CSSU is the easiest way Jan 03 16:44:18 solofight: or helping with n900 3.x kernel development Jan 03 16:44:27 in #maemo-ssu ;-9 Jan 03 16:44:34 yeah Jan 03 16:44:39 :-) Jan 03 16:45:46 tried to talk to you there in -ssu room for ~3 days now :P Jan 03 16:45:52 I still don't see why we need/want 3.x kernel for fremantle-neo900 Jan 03 16:46:16 DocScrutinizer05: because I don;t think we'll be able to port 2.6.28 to neo900 Jan 03 16:46:30 why not? Jan 03 16:50:38 DocScrutinizer05: when you have a minute can you please look at my question about the apmefo posted above please Jan 03 16:51:01 sorry, no comment to post Jan 03 17:33:10 Oh he mentioned top part though? Jan 03 17:33:10 iirc Jan 03 17:33:10 I assumed he meant part with terminals Jan 03 17:33:22 I mean not the part where battery charges or discharges, but the other side Jan 03 17:33:32 with these 2 metallic things to keep the battery in place Jan 03 17:34:51 There's label, plastic caswe, and lipo pouch to wear through. seems unlikely Jan 03 17:35:27 my old battery that this happened to had been used for around 4 years, and hundreds of battery swaps Jan 03 17:36:04 the black shielding (or whatever it was) was worn off, the silver thing behind it slightly as well, nothing had happened to the white below *that* though Jan 03 17:38:56 EEEEEK! Jan 03 17:39:56 didn't it occur to you that the "silver thing" is a conductor that shorts the battery to the metal of the latches? Jan 03 17:40:28 OMG Jan 03 17:41:49 I just can't think of any way on earth how to grind through a massive 1mm of black PVC or whatever plastic that is, with a metal latch that's as smooth and shiny as a mirror Jan 03 17:42:18 not with 100000 battery insers/removals Jan 03 17:43:29 didn't it occur to you that the "silver thing" is a conductor that shorts the battery to the metal of the latches? Jan 03 17:43:40 no, because I asked about this previously last year or so Jan 03 17:43:46 yes, that's what i just posted Jan 03 17:44:00 and then someone replied that there was no problem Jan 03 17:44:14 (this was way before sparks started to appear etc) Jan 03 17:45:58 what can I say? I fail to find an analogy that wouldn't sound harsh Jan 03 17:46:22 well Jan 03 17:46:33 I was concerned about when there was damage in first place already Jan 03 17:46:39 that's why I asked here about it Jan 03 17:46:51 I guess there was mis-understandings, or that the one that replied was wrong Jan 03 17:46:53 I just can't think of any way on earth how to grind through a massive 1mm of black PVC or whatever plastic that is, with a metal latch that's as smooth and shiny as a mirror Jan 03 17:48:03 DocScrutinizer05: well, I don't know of any other way it could have happened Jan 03 17:48:22 but I just opened and checked the latches... they are indeed not sharp at all Jan 03 17:48:33 if you bought that battery used, from a scum who didn't tell you that the plastic bottom of the battery fell off. And when you never ever seen an intact battery elsewhere.... Jan 03 17:49:59 there's hardly a way I could figure how you wouldn't notice such *massive* damage to your battery and start wondering if it might already explode right into your face Jan 03 17:50:58 but you told you have several batteries, no? Jan 03 17:51:02 yes Jan 03 17:51:10 both my other batteries are fully intact Jan 03 17:51:29 so I think you should notice when one of them had 1+mm deep huge dents Jan 03 17:51:52 and, as I said, I already asked about the previous (damaged) battery, but as I said, was told that it was "usual" and "not worth worrying about" Jan 03 17:52:20 what was usual??? that a battery has a hole in it? Jan 03 17:52:55 no... that the plastic had droppen off Jan 03 17:53:03 OMG! Jan 03 17:53:08 i had the bottom plastic simply fall out of the bottom of a few of my (bl-5j) batteries... but the only problem it causes is that there's not enough spring pressure and the contact becomes unreliable... so i just taped a pice of cardboard onto the bottom to fix it Jan 03 17:53:12 ^ seems it happened him too Jan 03 17:53:39 seems he's pretty ignorant about what's electricity and how it works Jan 03 17:53:59 (he commented in here earlier today) Jan 03 17:55:31 "hey, that power cable on my vacuum cleane rhas meters where the copper is exposed. Only probelm I ever seen is that it doesn't roll up into the device automatically, at least not that smoothly" Jan 03 17:57:00 and yeah, a piece of cardboard works for isolating electricity Jan 03 17:57:43 maybe not as good as plastic, but doesn't mean that the battery is fine to operate without any such isolation to avoid shorts Jan 03 17:58:46 "hey, that power cable on my vacuum cleane rhas meters where the copper is exposed. Only probelm I ever seen is that it doesn't roll up into the device automatically, at least not that smoothly" --- "thus I took some scotch tape and wrapped it around that copper. Nothing you need to worry about, really!" ;-P Jan 03 17:59:20 DocScrutinizer05: well, I don't know that much about a battery's internal structure - hence why I've always asked in here about my earlier problems Jan 03 17:59:21 "I **never** had any problem with it" Jan 03 17:59:48 you however *never* mentioned that the plastic is missing Jan 03 17:59:56 yes I did Jan 03 18:00:06 uhuh Jan 03 18:00:11 way ago in here Jan 03 18:00:18 and, as I said, I already asked about the previous (damaged) battery, but as I said, was told that it was "usual" and "not worth worrying about" Jan 03 18:00:22 thus I didn't even mention it Jan 03 18:00:37 regarding sparks Jan 03 18:00:38 *shrug* Jan 03 18:00:50 sorry I can't help Jan 03 18:01:25 I'm a bit concerned if I exposed myself to severe danger, but I don't think I could have done it better with my limited knowledge Jan 03 18:02:42 I'm out, I dunno how to handle such incident/problem Jan 03 18:03:03 well, currently I don't own any damaged batteries Jan 03 18:03:28 I'm sorry if I made you concerned about my sanity Jan 03 18:03:39 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:20:13 Jan 03 18:04:14 I don't see any missing plastic mentioned there Jan 03 18:09:38 found my earlier reference http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-02-18.log.html Jan 03 18:10:13 implying that there was no problem with missing plastic Jan 03 18:10:18 that's why I never mentioned it Jan 03 18:10:21 sorry Jan 03 18:15:02 * DocScrutinizer05 slaps woody Jan 03 18:21:46 * DocScrutinizer05 tries to figure what damage will have been done to N900 by such type of massive short circuit Jan 03 18:23:36 for sure could fry the battery gauge shunt resistor Jan 03 18:46:01 ~flash Jan 03 18:46:02 rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 03 18:51:10 o.O "This maemo.org page got discontinued, please call your local Nokia customer care." that's nice of them Jan 03 18:59:12 please use skeiron instead Jan 03 19:01:26 or rather complain at nokia Jan 03 19:02:42 and consider sharing all content via P2P Jan 03 19:03:16 ~pr131 Jan 03 19:03:17 i guess combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Jan 03 22:04:22 question is, is the battery protection circuit on high side or low side :-) Jan 03 22:16:07 It's ok I have a copy for myself. Would a mass complaint to nokiasoft actually do anything? Jan 03 22:16:25 doubtfull Jan 03 22:40:03 well Jan 03 22:40:21 haven't N900 reached EOL according to nokia anyway? Jan 03 22:40:29 (i.e. end of life, end of support) Jan 03 22:40:51 though I wonder if they would be willing to suggest mirrors Jan 03 22:49:56 this isn't about N900. Maemo has been passed over to HiFo. Jan 03 22:50:20 ~beasttweaks Jan 03 22:50:21 methinks beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts Jan 03 23:27:01 seems this thread got bumped http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82039 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 04 02:59:58 2014