**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 30 02:59:58 2014 Jan 30 04:34:26 Google seels Motorola to Lenovo. BWAHAHAHA Jan 30 04:34:32 sells, even Jan 30 04:37:24 ds_shadof: the time HAM needs to prepare the dependencies-tree and list of applications is proportional to the total number of packages in all enabled repos (catalogs). You are NOT supposed to have extras-devel catalog enabled usually, and extras-testing is mutually exclusive with extras-devel. Jan 30 04:40:13 a little story: ~6 years back my laptop been a cf-25 with only 128MB of RAM. While openoffice worked great once it started (which took ~60s), the YaST package manager took *fourteen hours* to start up, thanks to excessive swapping Jan 30 04:42:36 package managers need to build up enormous linked lists with all packages and their dependencies, which easily is beaming the whole system into a swap hell when the list exceeds the amount of available RAM Jan 30 04:44:22 thus: 04disable all catalogs in HAM that you don't really need right now! Jan 30 04:45:14 it's still slow with only maemo-extras enabled, but not THAT slow. Will take <5min definitely Jan 30 04:46:57 freemangordon created a vastly optimized version of HAM with a speedup of factor 100 or sth like that. I hope this jewel will make it into CSSU soon Jan 30 04:46:59 GAM is frontend to apt-get? Jan 30 04:47:03 HAM* Jan 30 04:47:12 yes, actually to apt-worker Jan 30 04:48:11 plus it does additional sorting/filtering, thus hiding some packages from user that would be dangerous to install deliberately Jan 30 04:48:59 but apt-get work fast. I will disable extras-devel and extras-testing and test HAM Jan 30 04:49:42 apt-get is evidently doing less than HAM, and what it does is done in a better optimized way Jan 30 04:50:37 one huge PITA is loading and rendering all the package icons, iirc Jan 30 04:50:51 which apt is evidently not doing Jan 30 04:51:52 the real check would be aptitude vs ham Jan 30 04:51:55 since aptitude builds the tree Jan 30 04:52:03 still no icons Jan 30 04:52:24 and still no package groups like seen in HAM Jan 30 04:52:28 gnome-packagekit? :P Jan 30 04:53:21 futile effort to find matching competitors to HAM. Rather test freemangordon's speedyHAM Jan 30 04:53:39 ah Jan 30 04:53:42 I'll look into that Jan 30 05:04:54 hm i disabled Nokia Applications, Nokia System Software Updates, CSSU-testing, andextras-devel. HAM is fast like lighting Jan 30 05:21:44 lol, I wonder how you were able to disable Nokia Applications, Nokia System Software Updates, Jan 30 05:22:24 not that it does natter anymore, nothing new will ever come from those channels. They managed to nuke their own signing key Jan 30 05:22:35 matter, even Jan 30 05:23:34 you should re-enable them nevertheless, also cssu-testing repo. disabling extras-devel is completely sufficient Jan 30 05:56:27 :) Jan 30 06:04:38 There is a checkbox to enable or disable repo, Nokia repos has it too Jan 30 06:13:19 checkbox should be disabled for Nokia repos afaik Jan 30 06:13:30 nevermind Jan 30 06:15:15 actually they are currently disable-able on my system as well Jan 30 06:15:36 cssu guys messed a bit with those settings Jan 30 06:17:10 eventually cssu came with a list of rather weird repos and none of them been even deletable Jan 30 06:34:52 ok, maybe I'm mistaken and those Nokia repos always been disable-able, just not deletable Jan 30 06:36:55 so it's probably even ok to disable them, unless you run into problems with cssu updates (those *might* depend on packages from nokia repos that are not yet installed) Jan 30 06:43:14 ~seen int-ua Jan 30 06:43:16 DocScrutinizer05: i haven't seen 'int-ua' Jan 30 06:43:20 ~seen int_ua Jan 30 06:43:21 int_ua <~int_ua@ip-602f.proline.net.ua> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 5h 57m 47s ago, saying: 'PLEASE HELP! My life could depend on it'. Jan 30 06:43:31 dang! Jan 30 06:44:08 DocScrutinizer05: oh well, too late to do anything new Jan 30 06:44:11 now* Jan 30 06:44:21 sure Jan 30 06:44:43 I already did what I was able to do, 7d ago Jan 30 06:44:43 * Tekk_ needs to remember to say something similar if he ever goes on an extended vacation Jan 30 06:44:49 ah Jan 30 06:45:27 I planned to do more now, and I'm concerned about int_ua Jan 30 06:45:41 oh, it was serious? Jan 30 06:45:49 yes, definitely Jan 30 06:46:01 Ukraina, Maidan Jan 30 06:46:05 oh Jan 30 06:46:11 yeah, that may not go so well :/ Jan 30 06:46:19 I'll keep an eye out Jan 30 06:48:30 it's kinda "official" that Janucovic and police cooperate with (or *are*) the local mafia Jan 30 06:53:40 it's tale-telling that military already stated that they *never* will act against Ukrainian people Jan 30 06:54:21 that's good Jan 30 06:54:55 DocScrutinizer05: is it though? I'm not certain of the situation ukraine but that seems to be pretty standard with the modern revolutions Jan 30 06:55:48 Tekk_: I wouldn't say having people dead is standard in europe Jan 30 06:55:56 well, this isn't an arabian country Jan 30 06:56:10 freemangordon: no, I'm saying about the military declaring that Jan 30 06:56:18 talking* Jan 30 06:56:59 umm, in ex soviet it always been military in the end. Often Russian military Jan 30 06:57:14 that finally stopped any revolution Jan 30 06:57:46 we seen it in GDR, in Poland... Jan 30 06:58:26 Hungary? Jan 30 06:58:48 I'm poor at history Jan 30 06:59:10 don't ask me. the american system isn't known for being great at subjects that aren't america :) Jan 30 06:59:15 (and not great at that either..) Jan 30 06:59:43 all those communism countries always military been a tool of government, not a second government of its own like in arabian countries Jan 30 07:00:51 or rather, the primary government *been* the military basically Jan 30 07:01:18 DocScrutinizer05: I guess you talk about the past Jan 30 07:01:26 yeah, sure Jan 30 07:01:49 evidently with Gorbatchow that changed Jan 30 07:02:22 though, who knows what is the real situation in ex-USSR countries besides the people living there Jan 30 07:02:52 not me, for sure :) Jan 30 07:03:06 nevertheless for "european" countries it's quite remarkable when military publicly states it will not obey certain orders that may come from government Jan 30 07:03:26 yeah Jan 30 07:06:35 In russia probably the military guy stating such thing would get shot 1 day later. In some arabian countries probably the government would get shot one day later Jan 30 07:07:38 ~ping Jan 30 07:07:39 ~pong Jan 30 07:07:41 what does it mean that something I said here is displayed in this window and not in the logs.. Jan 30 07:07:47 or rather - in russia it will get shot before doing so :) Jan 30 07:08:02 *he Jan 30 07:08:18 SAiF: it either means you started line with a space, or you did a /action Jan 30 07:08:31 aka /me Jan 30 07:08:57 which also doesn't count as "saying sth" Jan 30 07:09:15 I didnt do both.. may be my xchat client is running weird Jan 30 07:09:24 hmm Jan 30 07:09:28 possibly Jan 30 07:09:38 connection issues Jan 30 07:10:00 your local irc client always echoes your own posts Jan 30 07:10:05 hmm.. may be.. Jan 30 07:14:10 gorbachew traitor, murderer of hundreds of thousands peoples . Opinion of 99.999999% people in Russia. And stop your dreaming about Russina military. You just wrong in everything Jan 30 07:21:30 uhuh, didn't know I had anything to stop. My dreams are rarely ever about military. Maybe *you* just wrong about *me*? Jan 30 07:22:32 lost in translation? Jan 30 07:23:17 I just said Gorbachew evidently not been the head of military Jan 30 07:26:05 and I'm pretty sure Putin wouldn't allow TV to send a report about it when he liquidates a army guy who publicly says "military won't obey Putin when he orders this or that to military" Jan 30 07:26:55 what of both statements been incorrect? Jan 30 07:31:35 it tather seems in Russia even journalists have a short lifespan when they don't follow official rules about what and how to report Jan 30 07:31:42 rather* Jan 30 07:34:57 guess who's able to get Polonium to poison dissidents and politicians that are on the list of persona non grata of Russian gvmt Jan 30 08:42:06 guys, I need a lamp stack and phpmyadmin on the n900 Jan 30 08:42:56 any fast ways to get it or I should install apache2 php5 and mysql seperately Jan 30 08:43:09 and configure them Jan 30 19:27:48 http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Nokia-Ja-wir-entschluesseln-HTTPS-aber-wir-spitzeln-nicht-1781327.html Jan 30 19:57:52 dang, the english version is obviously already cleaned out from servers Jan 30 19:59:54 http://web.archive.org/web/20131206192143/http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Nokia-Yes-we-decrypt-HTTPS-but-we-don-t-spy-1782169.html Jan 30 20:00:49 thanks! :-) Jan 30 20:01:10 does it anyhow applies to N900/maemo? Jan 30 20:01:45 * RST38h makes a sound, like martian clearing throat afterdrinking human blood Jan 30 20:06:10 t3st3r: no Jan 30 20:08:13 btw, quite old: 11.01.2013 12:10 Jan 30 20:08:26 1y Jan 30 20:09:15 t3st3r: I can't speak for opera though Jan 30 20:09:45 I don't care about opera :) Jan 30 20:10:10 the opera turbo mode might Jan 30 20:18:28 http://www.opera.com/privacy#turbo Jan 30 20:53:14 why is opening the first page dog slow with (stable cssu) microbi? Jan 30 20:54:03 i mean, it takes minute or so to actually start loading stuff Jan 30 20:57:49 this sounds like DNS/resolver problem Jan 30 20:58:26 This sounds lik AdBlock also Jan 30 20:58:35 s/lik/like/ Jan 30 20:58:35 hxka meant: This sounds like AdBlock also Jan 30 20:58:47 yeah Jan 30 20:58:51 forgot Jan 30 20:59:15 or AdBlock enabled and killing your system with mega-swapping Jan 30 20:59:44 Adblock is absolutely unbearable Jan 30 20:59:48 ~adblock Jan 30 20:59:56 ~abp Jan 30 21:00:06 ~listvalues adblock Jan 30 21:00:10 Factoid search of 'adblock' by value returned no results. Jan 30 21:01:43 does vanilla cssu have adblock? Jan 30 21:02:10 i havent installed it Jan 30 21:02:35 No Jan 30 21:02:38 hmm...I think I've always used adblock but haven't noticed it does bad things, how does the mega-swapping happen? Jan 30 21:02:38 and all browsing after the fist page is just fine Jan 30 21:03:05 no other app than browser suffers this Jan 30 21:03:26 or is that why I sometimes kill hildon-home because it takes a few seconds after turning display off to be able to do things Jan 30 21:03:35 *turning display on Jan 30 21:03:35 (this) ssh connect is always snappy Jan 30 21:04:38 I have noticed that sometimes if I give a url, it just seems to wait there, but if I focus the address bar again and press enter it actually goes to the url Jan 30 21:05:01 ive noticed that too Jan 30 21:05:03 haven't bothered to find out why Jan 30 21:05:06 but this is different Jan 30 21:05:45 it actually gets to the page if you wait for that minyte or so Jan 30 21:06:24 joga: the sqlite db is too large Jan 30 21:07:40 TTilus: try IP address instead of URL Jan 30 21:09:26 ah, lemme try Jan 30 21:13:33 made no difference, the same one minute delay before starting to receive stuff, after fist page load (succesful or not) everything works fine Jan 30 21:16:04 gotta go sleep, continuing tomorrow with fresh brain Jan 30 21:17:14 DocScrutinizer05, re: adblock you mean? Jan 30 21:19:07 yep Jan 30 21:19:46 ~listkeys adbloc Jan 30 21:19:48 Factoid search of 'adbloc' by key (1): bladblocks. Jan 30 21:21:04 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#AFTER_FLASHING Jan 30 21:31:54 hmm, https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-10.log.html#t2012-06-10T23:41:33 Jan 30 21:42:37 ~abp Jan 30 21:45:26 ~adb Jan 30 21:46:58 Android Debug Bridge? :P Jan 30 21:50:33 nah Jan 30 21:50:43 apple desktop bus? ono... Jan 30 21:50:54 had that joke as well in irclog, based on fmg's typo Jan 30 21:51:04 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-10.log.html#t2012-06-10T23:20:28 Jan 30 21:51:10 (not the typo) Jan 30 21:52:30 https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-10.log.html#t2012-06-10T23:58:44 is the typo Jan 30 21:53:22 WOW, I've forgotten how fast is microb, damn, stupid ADP Jan 30 21:54:46 ~abp is '' WOW, I've forgotten how fast is microb, damn, stupid ADP'', https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-10.log.html#t2012-06-10T23:58:44 Jan 30 21:54:46 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Jan 30 21:57:21 infobot: no, abp is '' WOW, I've forgotten how fast is microb, damn, stupid ADP'', https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-10.log.html#t2012-06-10T23:55:10 Jan 30 21:57:22 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jan 30 21:59:52 it actually even behaves faster with all those flash ads with animations than with ADB Jan 30 23:00:21 spammers seem to pull up some odd pages on wmo. They make for interesting reading, like "random page" but with rollback :P http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org Jan 30 23:22:42 sixwheeledbeast: yeah, I wonder if we should disable anonymous edits. But then, we know they just create random accounts to spem, even harder to spot in "recent changes" Jan 30 23:23:00 spam* Jan 30 23:36:02 wiki? Jan 30 23:36:24 can't you ban ip? Jan 30 23:40:38 already done Jan 30 23:40:57 but that doesn't help much Jan 30 23:48:14 captcha? Jan 30 23:57:49 OMG, there is one, and it ASKS TO ADD TWO NUMBERS Jan 30 23:58:16 Computers are better at adding then people Jan 30 23:59:20 s/then/than/ Jan 30 23:59:21 hxka meant: Computers are better at adding than people Jan 31 00:04:33 make the subtrackt then :) Jan 31 00:04:53 subtract* Jan 31 00:06:15 first week add, second week subtract, third week multiple, fourh week divide, fifth week compute x^y, sixth week take logarithm base x of y, seventh week compute factorial of, eight week integrate an equation over the interval of the two numbers given.... Jan 31 00:07:21 http://xn--80afpi2a3c.xn--p1ai/matan_captcha/ Jan 31 00:08:04 hxka, you just need to add a time limit to it :) Jan 31 00:08:20 makes it even worse for humans...heh Jan 31 00:08:46 actually that integral isn't too bad, once you start transcendentals... Jan 31 00:08:48 and for extra credit we give them a locial paradox Jan 31 00:10:27 9th week... prove p=np or p!=np Jan 31 00:12:17 That won't be easy to evaluate Jan 31 00:16:08 :D Jan 31 00:17:06 ecc3g: Soriously though, it's actually easy to crack too: http://habrastorage.org/storage/f5dcff11/3f1f3245/68f7aa53/62544407.png Jan 31 00:17:42 after that they have to beat a verified human at goo or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa Jan 31 00:18:53 watch out or the captcha gets replaced by an interrogation by me ;-P Jan 31 00:19:38 :) Jan 31 00:19:38 I don't know what the big websites do these days Jan 31 00:19:56 I've had everything from recaptcha to "animal captcha" to questions I've changed daily Jan 31 00:20:09 they _beat_ the questions (seen on logs) Jan 31 00:20:29 http://thepcspy.com/kittenauth/ Jan 31 00:20:50 dont most still use googles recaptcha? Jan 31 00:20:55 I include that in "animal captchas", and the one I tried (no that) is mostly beaten Jan 31 00:20:58 *not that Jan 31 00:21:17 yeah, but recaptcha is useless these days Jan 31 00:21:48 iirc allot of the "beaten" by computer are actualy just cheap indians that solve them Jan 31 00:22:20 possibly Jan 31 00:22:35 otherwise we may be on the 22th century Jan 31 00:22:57 at some point I should try to ask "Show why P!=NP" to the bots Jan 31 00:23:44 you might be able to use that by asking questions about obscure western culture but that would lock out allot of real peaple of you are succesful Jan 31 00:24:10 you have to keep on changing the questions to fresh questions unfortunately Jan 31 00:24:26 the problem with most sysadmins is that they want one solution and never have to play with it again Jan 31 00:24:27 or have a realy big database of them Jan 31 00:24:30 which will never work Jan 31 00:24:31 no Jan 31 00:24:39 large database will not work Jan 31 00:24:46 it has to be infinitely large Jan 31 00:24:51 well I do ask questions about obscure videogames (since community is about games) Jan 31 00:25:19 doc could have it ask maemo specif questins Jan 31 00:25:27 yet the `indians' seem to solve them at their first try Jan 31 00:28:16 what about counting the number of squares hidden in somthing like this http://www.donrelyea.com/hilbert_mod/helipad_proto_big.gif Jan 31 00:28:36 that should at least confuse the realt computers Jan 31 00:28:46 btw at some point I gave up and blocked all @hotmail addresses Jan 31 00:28:58 but then "the indians" moved to @gmail Jan 31 00:28:58 That won't be ever solved by a real human Jan 31 00:29:14 you couldent use that image it is just example of the type of image Jan 31 00:29:49 Use pictures that have psychodelic effects that only affect humans... :D Jan 31 00:29:57 you make som bigger more obius squares on it thin use it or you use triangels Jan 31 00:30:10 is this a sad or an happy picture? :) Jan 31 00:30:29 that could work Jan 31 00:31:00 unfortunately the number of these kinds of pictures are limited... I mean the pictures that if you look at it funny the pictures move... of course a computer will never see it move Jan 31 00:31:37 hi javispedro! :-) Jan 31 00:31:49 helo! Jan 31 00:32:02 ecc3g: How would you use it as captcha? Jan 31 00:32:17 ecc3g, iirc you can "decode" this images by using a filter on it Jan 31 00:32:17 dunno... but it would be an interesting concept Jan 31 00:34:34 I like mine sad http://www.who.int/dg/lee/tributes/media/who_Dr_LEE_funeral002.JPG . happy http://filovican.moobis.se/files/2013/12/christmas-presents-under-tree.jpg idea Jan 31 00:34:55 it would be hard to get good computer reading on a big database of those images Jan 31 00:35:27 how about a IRC auth? Jan 31 00:35:31 give the user 6 old images and 4 new and ask them to clasify it Jan 31 00:35:41 ;-P Jan 31 00:36:03 IRC auth? you have to login to IRC, try to convince admin of website so that he lets you in? :) Jan 31 00:36:16 inda Jan 31 00:36:19 kinda Jan 31 00:36:30 convince anybody that you're real Jan 31 00:36:54 would probably nag the shit outa whole channel Jan 31 00:37:06 well at least it is a scalable solution Jan 31 00:37:20 you know that "dating" scam bots have "passed" turring test Jan 31 00:37:29 ouch Jan 31 00:37:46 this is the right moment to link to http://www.itslenny.com/ Jan 31 00:37:48 I guess that's because the testers did NOT Jan 31 00:37:59 true :) Jan 31 00:39:03 an (asterisk?) voice-based chatbot Jan 31 00:39:42 they tested it on telemarketers. some of them didn't realize until 10min in the conversation. Jan 31 00:40:23 this despite the fact the bot is actually just a series of recordings played in sequence (with some silence detection to know when to answer, I think) Jan 31 00:40:31 lol. sure that they warent a bot? some telemarketing kompany have begun usig sale bots Jan 31 00:47:40 those guys at least have a rediculus sales video http://www.nucaptcha.com/ lol Jan 31 00:52:00 I think the tricj with lenny is you don't understand a word of what "he2 says Jan 31 00:52:10 lol Jan 31 00:52:54 well it's one of those that will just randomly change the topic Jan 31 00:53:19 in this case, the random topic changes are justified by his old man persona Jan 31 00:53:39 which imho is not a bad idea =) Jan 31 00:54:25 the "ducks" recording is terribly funny =) Jan 31 00:56:00 wow, it just occurs to me that I'm commercially busy in a domain with colliding interests to maemo and thus shouldn't be in council at all Jan 31 00:57:14 even worse: I dunno if I already been in this conflict during last elections and didn't disclose the fact Jan 31 00:57:46 I thought the only council conflict of interest was being in the Nokia itself... Jan 31 00:58:07 lemme check Jan 31 00:59:22 >>Nominees with a professional interest in Maemo, such as working for Nokia - or any other company involved in Maemo-related software development - must declare their interest when advertising their nomination. Failure to do so may result in the Nokia Community Manager, or the outgoing Council, declaring their nomination invalid and so bar them from standing in the current election.<< Jan 31 01:00:07 now if only I knew if Neo900 group is involved in sw development Jan 31 01:00:30 but eventually we plan to Jan 31 01:00:33 this was written basically for Nokia employees and contractors Jan 31 01:00:44 *shrug* Jan 31 01:01:07 I think it's a sufficient reason to step down Jan 31 01:01:27 obviously, if you read it like a lawyer, then, by virtue of having developed maemo-related software, *I* would also need to declare "my interested". Jan 31 01:01:30 *interest Jan 31 01:01:53 so maybe it needs changing Jan 31 01:03:19 tbh I'm fed up at times Jan 31 01:04:26 ... fully comprehensible Jan 31 01:05:10 I step down, HiFo nominates juiceme as woody's successor, problem solved radically Jan 31 01:05:20 though I must say that I was obviously wrong in my bet with woody Jan 31 01:05:34 #harmattan is pretty much dead while maemo is still thriving Jan 31 01:05:47 so if woody shows up again I owe him some money Jan 31 01:06:07 obviously, you are all to blame for keeping maemo alive :) Jan 31 01:06:13 j/k s/blame/congratulate/ Jan 31 01:06:24 :-S Jan 31 01:07:13 meanwhile it rots from all sides Jan 31 01:07:43 there's no way around that. Jan 31 01:08:20 but obviously a lot of ways to speed that process up significantly Jan 31 01:08:24 but a certain level of rot may even be desirable to `continuist' types Jan 31 01:09:16 spreading frustration is a very effective means Jan 31 01:09:56 and seems now *I* am doing that, passing along the frustration I had to take the last weeks Jan 31 01:11:33 I seem to recall I chatted with woody and we agreed that Rob failed to understand that maemo is no product but a project Jan 31 01:11:46 can't be longer than 1 year ago Jan 31 01:13:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1409516#post1409516 " maemo is not a FOSS project. It's is a commercial product with a number of FOSS elements interwoven." Jan 31 01:13:29 he is right Jan 31 01:13:57 well, unless you got the trademark from nokia, I've not been up to date with news :) Jan 31 01:13:58 he been right as long as Nokia-maemo existed Jan 31 01:14:53 back in the oldie days _maemo.org_ was the project Jan 31 01:14:57 from that POV "maemo" is a trademark, and a part of a domain name, the 2nd level domain Jan 31 01:15:07 and nothing more Jan 31 01:15:28 but this is just language lawyering Jan 31 01:16:10 maemo.org is CC-BY-SA and a FOSS project. Always been Jan 31 01:16:38 I don't give a shit about Nokia's trademark or product Jan 31 01:17:02 since the product actually been the maemo hardware platform Jan 31 01:18:10 maemo.org the content, of course. Not the URL Jan 31 01:18:27 (take into account that woody _loves_ discussing. Remember my early "civilized conversations" with him re harmattan vs fremantle) Jan 31 01:18:44 sure Jan 31 01:19:43 but I don't love "discussing" with him anymore Jan 31 01:20:15 every second sentence is mere nonsense Jan 31 01:20:55 on the level of "...which proves the moon is NOT made of cheese like YOU said" Jan 31 01:21:46 when you ask him where this been said, you don't get an answer Jan 31 01:22:36 instead he starts to explain to you that you can't fetch parts of the moon for your pizza Jan 31 01:26:33 and maemo the OS is linux in my book, thus GPL == FOSS Jan 31 01:26:51 *cough* Android Jan 31 01:27:31 and no nvidia driver or closed maemo-dialer changes the fact that linux is not owned by nokia Jan 31 01:27:50 so the discussion is that he argues there are nokia (c) binaries on *.maemo.org, and you disagree? Jan 31 01:28:03 well, I suppose its true a ls -lR would show that :) Jan 31 01:28:04 the FOSS parts in maemo >> Nokia blobs Jan 31 01:28:19 take away all the blobs and it's still maemo, and still FOSS Jan 31 01:28:28 possibly Jan 31 01:28:42 but it is important imho what's the status of the blobs Jan 31 01:29:08 the status of the blobs is: Nokia rather burries them. So we're already busted Jan 31 01:29:13 regarding that Jan 31 01:29:28 but none of the blobs ever been hosted on maemo.org Jan 31 01:29:49 something I wanted to say btw Jan 31 01:30:14 (except that unspeakable stage thing for the nokia.com akamai server farm. But that's stopped since long already) Jan 31 01:30:25 what jonwil calls "reverse engineering" is mostly basically decompiling existing (c) binaries Jan 31 01:30:47 obviously, nokia being over, no one is going to say a word Jan 31 01:31:17 but they obviously violate clean room requirements and would be rejected by most upstreams **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 31 02:59:58 2014