**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 13 02:59:59 2014
Apr 13 06:37:19 <Apic> A wonderful splendid fine Sunday Morning (UGT) on this sumptuous Pungenday!
Apr 13 06:37:45 <SAiF> morning.. 
Apr 13 12:15:17 <Apic> Whoops, i did it again.  ;-(
Apr 13 12:15:27 <Apic> I ruined my rootfs by installing iptables
Apr 13 12:15:28 <Apic> fsck
Apr 13 12:24:50 <Maxdamantus> How does installing iptables ruin your rootfs?
Apr 13 12:25:05 <Maxdamantus> Also, btrfs would be useful here.
Apr 13 12:25:31 <Maxdamantus> Can just take a snapshot of the rootfs before doing anything to it.
Apr 13 12:34:01 <Apic> ~flasher
Apr 13 12:34:01 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Apr 13 12:39:35 <Maxdamantus> ~rescueOS
Apr 13 12:39:37 <infobot> it has been said that rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/
Apr 13 12:39:51 <Maxdamantus> might be useful if the problem is that you're unable to boot Maemo.
Apr 13 12:40:26 <Maxdamantus> can boot into that then chroot into your install and uninstall iptables with apt.
Apr 13 12:43:06 <bencoh> I dont see why iptables alone would break maemo though
Apr 13 12:43:15 <Maxdamantus> Indeed.
Apr 13 12:48:25 <NIN101> I have it installed without any problems.
Apr 13 12:48:55 <bencoh> same here ;)
Apr 13 12:58:49 <Web-aptosid876_> Hi
Apr 13 12:59:03 <Web-aptosid876_> thinking of getting one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N810
Apr 13 13:00:35 <Web-aptosid876_> Trying to work out if it needs any proprietary blobs to work?
Apr 13 13:00:48 <Web-aptosid876_> Can I get a recent distro on it?
Apr 13 13:01:03 <Web-aptosid876_> looks like one can install a new gnu+linux system on it http://bues.ch/cms/hacking/n810-openwrt.html http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34713
Apr 13 13:01:33 <Web-aptosid876_> 1hour left! thinking of committing the sin of evilbay and buying this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokia-N-Series-N810-256MB-Wi-Fi-4-1in-Titanium-/261445511507?pt=UK_iPad_Tablets_eReaders&hash=item3cdf5de953
Apr 13 13:33:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372720#post1372720
Apr 13 13:34:34 <Web-aptosid876_> my bad you'r already on #maemo
Apr 13 13:37:55 <Web-aptosid876_> but that's all related to the neo900 not the old n900
Apr 13 13:40:05 <Web-aptosid876_> so are you trying to say for fptf "new hw platforms" includes old platforms like the n900?
Apr 13 13:40:48 <Web-aptosid876_> I thought fptf was only for neo900 and future to-be-made devices
Apr 13 13:40:59 <Web-aptosid876_> DocScrutinizer05: ^
Apr 13 13:42:55 <DocScrutinizer05> porting an OS from platform X to platform X doesn't make much sense first instance, but when you think about it, fptf will also create a more open fremantle (some call that freemantle then) for N900 as well
Apr 13 13:43:31 <Web-aptosid876_> oh, I thought n900 was going to be left to riot
Apr 13 13:43:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372752#post1372752  >>On a side note - my understanding is that our ultimate goal is to have one (or 2, but very close) distribution to be used on both N900 and Neo900.<<
Apr 13 13:44:12 <bencoh> 2 ?
Apr 13 13:44:38 <kolp> 1 each, I guess
Apr 13 13:45:07 <DocScrutinizer05> there are a few platform specific spots in fremantle that may need a tailored-to-fit distro
Apr 13 13:45:11 <bencoh> I'd personally love a really opensource fremantle/maemo/whatever it should be called
Apr 13 13:46:44 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g. Neo900 is thumb-safe, so the Neo900 "distro" might be thumb-only. Nota bene this doesn't forbid running armel binaries from maemo-extras on that thumbified Neo900 distro
Apr 13 13:47:47 <Web-aptosid876_> so in the long term can I dare expect n900 to have a far far more free software stack? and in the short term (the next 4 weeks) can I use the usb host with usb audio class devices?
Apr 13 13:48:58 <Web-aptosid876_> I assume the n810 isn't going to get fptf? - too old and low ram + slow cpu?...
Apr 13 13:49:04 <DocScrutinizer05> again, fremantle is not as closed as you seem to think. The closed bits are mostly apps (like calendar, dialer aso), and a number of libs (liblocation etc). None of that is needed to run a working maemo OS 
Apr 13 13:49:20 <Maxdamantus> Does thumb actually lead to things running faster (more code storable in CPU cache, less to read from storage), or is it mainly for the sake of storage limitations?
Apr 13 13:49:22 <Web-aptosid876_> and I get that
Apr 13 13:49:33 <bencoh> liblocation, libgsm, ...
Apr 13 13:49:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, a number of those
Apr 13 13:49:47 <bencoh> I wouldnt care about the first one ... but the second one is quite required ;)
Apr 13 13:49:51 <Web-aptosid876_> what do you mean by thumb?
Apr 13 13:49:56 <bencoh> arm thumb
Apr 13 13:50:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~thumb
Apr 13 13:50:07 <infobot> cssu-thumb is probably <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb
Apr 13 13:50:59 <Web-aptosid876_> thansk ok
Apr 13 13:51:04 <bencoh> do we have replacements for closed PA stuff ?
Apr 13 13:51:23 <Web-aptosid876_> PA ?
Apr 13 13:51:27 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
Apr 13 13:51:28 <bencoh> pulseaudio
Apr 13 13:51:30 <bencoh> aww
Apr 13 13:51:35 <Web-aptosid876_> arr no
Apr 13 13:51:35 <bencoh> what's missing ? gsm decoding ?
Apr 13 13:51:54 <bencoh> and audio routing plugin maybe ?
Apr 13 13:52:52 <DocScrutinizer05> gsm is probably less of a problem than we initially thought. Audio is simply re-implementing cmt-speech. The libisi stuff needs a compatibility layer that shouldn't be too hard to plumb to the higher levels in stack
Apr 13 13:53:10 <Maxdamantus> Mm, so the main advantage is apparently less swapping.
Apr 13 13:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> audio will be 100% clone of N900 in Neo900
Apr 13 13:53:53 <DocScrutinizer05> Maxdamantus: right
Apr 13 13:54:41 <DocScrutinizer05> actually with "unlimited" amounts of RAM available, armel is preferable since a few percent *faster*
Apr 13 13:55:24 <DocScrutinizer05> while thumb has smaller code 
Apr 13 13:55:38 <DocScrutinizer05> significantly smaller
Apr 13 13:55:48 <Maxdamantus> Why armel instead of armhf?
Apr 13 13:56:01 <DocScrutinizer05> because they are not compatible
Apr 13 13:56:29 <DocScrutinizer05> we wanna run maemo-extras binaries without having to rebuild them for Neo900
Apr 13 13:56:49 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Apr 13 13:58:10 <Maxdamantus> Where does the compatibility issue arise? Just in library dependencies?
Apr 13 13:58:42 <bencoh> code
Apr 13 13:58:43 <DocScrutinizer05> (audio) we could use whatever audio drivers and hardware we like, when we don't need maemo's mixer tools etc, like policy enforcer aso
Apr 13 13:58:52 <Maxdamantus> (so you'd need armhf and armel libraries for everything)
Apr 13 13:59:27 <DocScrutinizer05> Maxdamantus: basically yes, and those libraries cause apps to be not compatible
Apr 13 13:59:49 <DocScrutinizer05> again aiui
Apr 13 14:00:08 * Maxdamantus thought that was random key presses.
Apr 13 14:00:14 <Maxdamantus> "as I understand it"
Apr 13 14:00:18 <DocScrutinizer05> for meego carsten and friends discussed that a long time
Apr 13 14:01:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and since we want to use blobs the user rips out of her maemo fremantle installation on her N900, like the 3D gfx lib for opengl... no way we go armhf in Neo900 freemantle
Apr 13 14:03:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on a sidenote afaik the difference between armel and armhf is actually negligible
Apr 13 14:03:11 <DocScrutinizer05> performance wise
Apr 13 14:03:30 <Maxdamantus> Wonder if someone's made something like emul-linux-x86 but for armel libraries on armhf
Apr 13 14:03:53 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, what for?
Apr 13 14:04:01 <Maxdamantus> Hm. That seems to be a Gentoo thing.
Apr 13 14:04:28 <Maxdamantus> For migration purposes.
Apr 13 14:04:46 <Maxdamantus> isn't Debian planning on dropping armel eventually?
Apr 13 14:04:57 <Maxdamantus> Dunno.
Apr 13 14:04:57 <DocScrutinizer05> who would want to migrate from armel to armhf? and why?
Apr 13 14:05:34 <Maxdamantus> Because it's easier for binary distributions like Debian to have as few binary distributions as possible.
Apr 13 14:05:52 <DocScrutinizer05> could care less
Apr 13 14:06:28 <Maxdamantus> Exactly.
Apr 13 14:06:44 <Maxdamantus> So it's at least something of a potential issue.
Apr 13 14:06:46 <bencoh> "and since we want to use blobs the user rips out of her maemo fremantle installation on her N900, like the 3D gfx lib for opengl... no way we go armhf in Neo900 freemantle" this is why being able to rebuild everything from scratch is important ;)
Apr 13 14:07:03 <bencoh> (like SHR)
Apr 13 14:07:33 <Maxdamantus> Yep. You should migrate Freemantle to nix.
Apr 13 14:07:33 <DocScrutinizer05> you won't find a way to rebuild Nokia blobs from scratch
Apr 13 14:07:48 <DocScrutinizer05> errr wut?
Apr 13 14:08:06 <Maxdamantus> nix, the purely functional package manager.
Apr 13 14:08:09 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: yeah I was talking about the rest
Apr 13 14:08:23 <bencoh> (and to be honest I dont really want to keep nokia blobs)
Apr 13 14:08:53 <Maxdamantus> You write a package tree as an expression consisting of a bunch of "derivations", which are instructions on how to build something.
Apr 13 14:08:56 <Web-aptosid876_> I thought the audio blobs where going to get replaced?
Apr 13 14:09:01 <DocScrutinizer05> you're free to discard or ignore them, not install them to your Neo900 freemantle
Apr 13 14:09:32 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll ahve to live with ALSA then instead of PA, and probably mafw won't work with ALSA
Apr 13 14:09:32 <Maxdamantus> then when you build it, the output is a directory called something like /nix/store/892389298ekthqthkqjtk-firefox-31-armel
Apr 13 14:09:53 <Web-aptosid876_> ~mafw
Apr 13 14:09:53 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, mafw is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Media_Application_Framework_%28MAFW%29
Apr 13 14:09:54 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, I'm too busy to discuss nix
Apr 13 14:10:14 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, it's more than a small discussion anyway.
Apr 13 14:10:38 <Web-aptosid876_> jack instead of pulseaudio hehe lol'ish
Apr 13 14:10:51 <DocScrutinizer05> the goal if fptf is to give user a maemo fremantle user experience on new platforms
Apr 13 14:11:16 <Maxdamantus> and the current nix-pkgs doesn't much like cross-compiling .. has an added-later solution that works for some packages.
Apr 13 14:11:17 <DocScrutinizer05> s/if/of/
Apr 13 14:11:17 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: the goal of fptf is to give user a maemo fremantle user experience on new platforms
Apr 13 14:12:04 <DocScrutinizer05> you're free to add nix to maemo fremantle, there are other more or less crappy package managers around as alternative to HAM
Apr 13 14:12:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see how that's related to fptf or Neo900
Apr 13 14:12:38 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: I guess I could live with it
Apr 13 14:12:43 <bencoh> (no mafw)
Apr 13 14:12:54 <Maxdamantus> it was related to “this is why being able to rebuild everything from scratch is important”
Apr 13 14:12:59 <bencoh> and/or replace it (mpd love)
Apr 13 14:13:06 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's you. sorry to say you are not the benchmark for this
Apr 13 14:13:12 <bencoh> indeed
Apr 13 14:13:25 <bencoh> couldnt be any more true :)
Apr 13 14:13:43 <NIN101> I have been out of the loop for a while. There is no way to solve the KEYEXPIRED problem for http://repository.maemo.org fremantle other than setting the date back to something like 2010, right?
Apr 13 14:14:02 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: is it a problem really?
Apr 13 14:14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise, no
Apr 13 14:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> err, right
Apr 13 14:14:48 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia fscked it up and never will fix it
Apr 13 14:14:57 <NIN101> :/
Apr 13 14:15:30 <DocScrutinizer05> however keys are not a mandatory component to make the infra work
Apr 13 14:15:53 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I think whenever you run into this "key expired" it's a warning only
Apr 13 14:16:06 <bencoh> it is
Apr 13 14:16:18 <NIN101> yes, but not a nice one. 
Apr 13 14:16:22 <DocScrutinizer05> in HAM (red pill mode) there's a setting to ignore keys all together iirc
Apr 13 14:16:37 <bencoh> ignoring keys isnt all nice though
Apr 13 14:16:42 <NIN101> indeed.
Apr 13 14:18:52 <DocScrutinizer05> well, yeah, somebody might highjack nokia DNS and redirect HAM to a rogue repo that injects malware or spyware to your device, when you ignore keys
Apr 13 14:19:40 <Maxdamantus> or just highjack the DNS on the network you're using.
Apr 13 14:19:47 <DocScrutinizer05> just, everybody could already do so very easily via acme-app in maemo-extras or maemo-devel
Apr 13 14:20:41 <Maxdamantus> is GSM traffic normally encrypted?
Apr 13 14:21:00 <DocScrutinizer05> "encrypted" yeah
Apr 13 14:21:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the internet is not safe
Apr 13 14:22:41 <DocScrutinizer05> security by complication is as much snakeoil like security by obscurity is
Apr 13 14:23:02 <bencoh> and gsm has been "broken" btw
Apr 13 14:23:17 <bencoh> (but that's not really related to this)
Apr 13 14:23:37 <DocScrutinizer05> (and nobody uses GSM for data anymore, btw ;-P ) 
Apr 13 14:23:46 <bencoh> ;)
Apr 13 14:23:57 <bencoh> just for phone/sms
Apr 13 14:24:04 <jaska> gsm data? as in csd?:D
Apr 13 14:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard there's that new thing caled UMTS
Apr 13 14:24:20 <bencoh> no kidding ? too new for me :p
Apr 13 14:24:24 <DocScrutinizer05> some call it 3G
Apr 13 14:24:33 <bencoh> pretty sure its a rumor
Apr 13 14:24:36 <bencoh> even more so, a myt
Apr 13 14:24:38 <bencoh> myth*
Apr 13 14:25:04 * Maxdamantus used it for data the other day.
Apr 13 14:25:07 <jaska> i use gprs/edge occasionally
Apr 13 14:25:20 <jaska> i keep my n900 on 2g by default
Apr 13 14:25:26 <bencoh> same here
Apr 13 14:26:29 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, but the threat from somebody intercepting your GSM data OTA connection is marginal compared to same guys simply intercepting all data on next vulnerable cisco server in your carrier's network, or anywhere
Apr 13 14:27:31 <bencoh> yup
Apr 13 14:27:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see NSA (or a hacker with the powers to do so) actually developing a fake nokia fremantle repo to inject malware to N900
Apr 13 14:28:28 <DocScrutinizer05> anybody doing this *really* must have resources he *needs* to waste on nonsense
Apr 13 14:29:28 <Maxdamantus> Security through obscurity.
Apr 13 14:29:28 <DocScrutinizer05> feels like burglary by digging a hole through earth
Apr 13 14:29:39 <Maxdamantus> or maybe unpopularity.
Apr 13 14:29:43 <bencoh> actually that kind of stuff could be part of a larger project
Apr 13 14:29:46 <Maxdamantus> which might be described as obscurity.
Apr 13 14:29:48 <SAiF> to be true.. A lot of my friends havent even seen a n900 other than mine.. no offence
Apr 13 14:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Apr 13 14:30:11 <bencoh> ("let's infect droids, iThings, then symbians, maemo, [...]")
Apr 13 14:30:14 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody generally knows wtf is N900
Apr 13 14:30:58 <Kilroo> There are actually two people where I work who have them.
Apr 13 14:31:12 <Kilroo> Me, and the former Freerunner user who got interested after he saw mine.
Apr 13 14:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL, somebody planning a multi-million USD plot to infect a userbase of 30k using a dead OS (sorry but that's it)... sounds like a silly science fiction
Apr 13 14:31:41 <Kilroo> I haven't been carrying mine lately though.
Apr 13 14:32:00 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: :)
Apr 13 14:32:31 <Kilroo> Largely because I haven't felt like bothering to get another belt case for it since the last one broke off of the clip for the fourth time.
Apr 13 14:32:47 <NIN101> a decent hacker doesn't need multi-million USDs to gain some kind of access to maemo and replace some packages with some evil things?
Apr 13 14:32:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah I know that :-/
Apr 13 14:33:15 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: via DNS hijacking? really?
Apr 13 14:33:28 <NIN101> no, owning the server directly.
Apr 13 14:33:36 <DocScrutinizer05> feasible for a targeted attack
Apr 13 14:33:55 <DocScrutinizer05> to a single user
Apr 13 14:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> those are carried out via more comfortable attack vectors though, usually
Apr 13 14:34:58 <Kilroo> Thank you, now I'm picturing a recliner labeled "attack vector."
Apr 13 14:35:06 <DocScrutinizer05> like simply manipulating the device directly after breaking in your flat when your device sits there charging, and you are under the shower
Apr 13 14:36:25 <DocScrutinizer05> owning the server opens up all sorts of attack vectors and nothing your keys could do against that
Apr 13 14:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> who pwned the server also owns the signature private keys, usually
Apr 13 14:38:01 <DocScrutinizer05> or they simply inject another binary or even sourcecode to the build service, so it doesn't show to public interface. then they wait for next repo update
Apr 13 14:38:20 <NIN101> yep. 
Apr 13 14:39:55 <DocScrutinizer05> lemme put it this way: thanks to the expired key which can't get updated you definitely won't see *any* package updates from the nokia fremantle repos anymore
Apr 13 14:40:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm rather concerned how long you see the repos themselves
Apr 13 14:40:37 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually Nokia will simply shut them down
Apr 13 14:41:09 <NIN101> is repository.maemo.org under nokia control?
Apr 13 14:41:26 <DocScrutinizer05> that's a good question. Rather not
Apr 13 14:41:54 <DocScrutinizer05> but downloads.maemo.nokia.com (or similar) is
Apr 13 14:42:27 <DocScrutinizer05> repository.maemo.org is basically under control of awesome maemo techstaff
Apr 13 14:42:52 <DocScrutinizer05> read: warfare, merlin1991 aso
Apr 13 14:42:56 <NIN101> so, theoretically it would be possible to simply create a new key and sign the stuff with it? 
Apr 13 14:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> theoretically yes, but how would you deploy that new key to the devices?
Apr 13 14:43:37 <NIN101> yeah :-).
Apr 13 14:44:26 <DocScrutinizer05> you only could do that when you had a valid key to sign the new key with it
Apr 13 14:44:45 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia missed the latest point in time to do that
Apr 13 14:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> *before* the old key expired
Apr 13 14:45:30 <Kilroo> I wonder if there's anyone at Nokia who cares a little.
Apr 13 14:45:56 <DocScrutinizer05> we spotted another still valid key they also have deployed to all devices, they could use that valid key to sign the new repo key to deploy it. But Nokia rejected that 
Apr 13 14:46:31 <NIN101> did they give a reason?
Apr 13 14:46:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Kilroo: hardly
Apr 13 14:46:54 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: (lack of) competence
Apr 13 14:47:03 <NIN101> I see.
Apr 13 14:47:34 <Kilroo> You're probably right, but I like to imagine some poor neat-freak sap who works in a mailroom or something who would be upset by it just because it's sloppy.
Apr 13 14:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> that other key is in the vault of another subdivision of Nokia and that subdivision isn't willing to cooperate. Or somesuch
Apr 13 14:51:48 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: (repository.maemo.org) NB this repo has no "key expired" problem afaik
Apr 13 14:52:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but you can't deploy a new key for downloads.maemo.nokia.com via maemo-extras
Apr 13 14:53:49 <DocScrutinizer05> or at least I think you can't, if only for the reason that there's not a single package that every user got installed from maemo-extras so you could ship an update to that package and thus deploy the key
Apr 13 14:55:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and since Nokia isn't going to rebuild and sign the base fremantle repo, there's no use in further pursuing this issue. We rather need to find a solution for the time when nokia repos vanish completely
Apr 13 14:55:46 <bencoh> yup
Apr 13 14:55:51 <DocScrutinizer05> which I'm rather sure the will, sooner rather than later
Apr 13 14:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> they*
Apr 13 14:57:55 <DocScrutinizer05> there been approaches to prepare for that event, like skeiron, but recently HiFo thinks Nokia will magically resurrect maemo when only HiFo and whole community plays nice
Apr 13 14:59:47 <DocScrutinizer05> btw we didn't hear of any progress or any activity at all regarding negotiations between HiFo and Nokia, for the last ~ 5 months. I wonder how long till there's some report form HiFo to community about state of things
Apr 13 15:01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> but those negotiations are so SEKRIT that obviously not even a "this week 2 mails" note is allowed
Apr 13 15:02:12 * DocScrutinizer05 doubts it would be even a "this month one mail" note though
Apr 13 15:04:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the e.V founding seems also lost in the voids of time, I ca't recall I've seen anything happening since that foundation meeting
Apr 13 15:05:50 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc there been some letter mentioned that been meant to get sent around to all inaugural e.V. members to get signed by them. So far nobody even asked me for my mail address
Apr 13 15:07:05 <Sicelo> you're not going to be a member :p
Apr 13 15:07:28 <DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
Apr 13 15:08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> then why the fuck are they bashing/pestering me with "are you willing to sign those papers??? dickhead!"
Apr 13 15:08:37 <NIN101> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12632 cert expried b2w
Apr 13 15:08:39 <povbot> 04Bug 12632: Fremantle CSSU testing apt repository is signed by diablo gpg key
Apr 13 15:08:49 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: I know
Apr 13 15:09:09 <DocScrutinizer05> but that's not my business anymore
Apr 13 15:09:24 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik techstaff tries to fix that
Apr 13 15:10:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, wasn't it the time of the year another council (and HiFo?) election was pending?
Apr 13 15:12:23 <NIN101> ok seems most of repostiory.maemo.org is good (extras etc.). My problem was community-testing, which is signed by an expired key. 
Apr 13 15:13:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall we had a decision in very first council meeting of this current term's council where we agreed upon doing council election a month or so early to keep it in sync with the HiFo election pending after a year or whatever the term for that entity
Apr 13 15:13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: cssu-testing?
Apr 13 15:14:15 <DocScrutinizer05> or maemo-testing?
Apr 13 15:14:19 <NIN101> DocScrutinizer05: http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/
Apr 13 15:14:46 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, I don't know the true URLs of all our repos by heart
Apr 13 15:16:27 <DocScrutinizer05> is this maemo-extras|*TESTING*|devel or CSSU-Testing?
Apr 13 15:16:40 <NIN101> CSSU testing afaik.
Apr 13 15:16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ---> merlin1991
Apr 13 15:17:01 <NIN101> ok. thx.
Apr 13 15:23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to remember the guys planned to deploy a fresh key quite a while ago - maybe around xmas - and I think they did. Maybe they missed to use it to sign the last CSSU-T version with it, which would actually make sense since you can't sign a distro update with a key you deploy in that distro update
Apr 13 15:25:18 <bencoh> right :)
Apr 13 15:25:22 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Apr 13 15:25:53 <bencoh> hmm I should build/package memlockd some time
Apr 13 15:26:09 <bencoh> (hate it when mce stuff gets swapped)
Apr 13 15:28:23 <DocScrutinizer05> mce gets swapped out? shouldn't happen I guess
Apr 13 15:30:27 <bencoh> either mce or something powerbutton depends on
Apr 13 15:32:02 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, HD I guess
Apr 13 15:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> simply the window manager
Apr 13 15:32:54 <bencoh> might be
Apr 13 15:33:13 <bencoh> would tklock depend on it ?
Apr 13 15:33:16 <DocScrutinizer05> this device has too few RAM
Apr 13 15:33:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Apr 13 15:33:41 <bencoh> true ;)
Apr 13 15:33:49 <DocScrutinizer05> tklock? the process, the message, the function?
Apr 13 15:34:43 <DocScrutinizer05> tklock is an action taken by mce aiui
Apr 13 15:35:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and triggered via HAL and dbus, I guess. shouldn't be related to swap in any way
Apr 13 15:35:26 <bencoh> that's exactly the one I'm referring to
Apr 13 15:35:34 <DocScrutinizer05> as long as you're talking about the slider button
Apr 13 15:35:59 <bencoh> hmm, the 2-push powerbutton one
Apr 13 15:36:11 <bencoh> dunno who handles it though
Apr 13 15:36:23 <bencoh> (I think it is mce but ...)
Apr 13 15:36:46 <DocScrutinizer05> that one is obviously also talking to window manager resp HD, for displaying the powerbutton menu
Apr 13 15:37:53 <DocScrutinizer05> somebody might want to fix that, so the menu only pops up after doubleclick timeout and only one powerbutton click detected in that time window
Apr 13 15:38:57 <DocScrutinizer05> as it's now I bet it invokes the display-menu action instantly on first click, and that brings stuff to a grinding halt for the time swap happens
Apr 13 15:39:08 <bencoh> might be
Apr 13 15:39:13 <bencoh> makes sense actually
Apr 13 15:41:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I never use powerbutton doubleclick for tklock
Apr 13 15:42:07 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I consider it risky to enable that
Apr 13 15:42:28 <DocScrutinizer05> a power button doubleclick happens easily to my device
Apr 13 15:42:37 <DocScrutinizer05> when in pocket
Apr 13 15:43:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, it still locks on doubleclick, but it doesn't unlock
Apr 13 15:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I never use it, I only use the slider switch
Apr 13 15:44:03 <DocScrutinizer05> aka tklock switch
Apr 13 15:45:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I frequently use power button to watch the clock on lockscreen
Apr 13 15:47:45 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: I only use it to lock, not to unlock
Apr 13 15:47:58 <bencoh> and lockswitch is a pain (at least for me) to operate
Apr 13 15:57:48 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL! [2014-04-13 Sun 13:11:02] <pursuivant> Fix Bug 316097 - copying or moving folder to one of its own subfolders should never be possible
Apr 13 15:57:52 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/316097 was not found.
Apr 13 15:58:44 <DocScrutinizer05> last time I seen this been in linux extfs arounf kernel 0.99
Apr 13 17:35:17 <jdoles> How can I manage a playlist for an N900? The UI on the phone seems terrible to do that. I am now on a Linux machine and I could create a playlist there, but I think there are some conditions for the files to be generated.
Apr 13 18:19:57 <Sicelo> jdoles: the Media Player should recognize playlists without a problem
Apr 13 20:37:34 <NIN101> can somebody provide an output of "ls /etc/ssl/certs | wc -l" on the N900?
Apr 13 20:49:29 <bencoh> NIN101: 0
Apr 13 20:49:41 <NIN101> bencoh: thx.
Apr 13 20:50:06 <bencoh> seems a bit odd though
Apr 13 20:51:14 <NIN101> my openssl in maemo is kinda broken.
Apr 13 20:56:16 <bencoh> it is kinda broken everywhere anyway
Apr 13 20:56:36 <NIN101> haha :-). 
Apr 13 20:56:55 <NIN101> mine doesn't manage to verify any website though.
Apr 13 20:58:23 <bencoh> sad
Apr 13 20:58:49 <bencoh> actually I was talking about default cert path and where does openssl look at verif time
Apr 13 20:59:41 <bencoh> it seems that it doesn't check /etc/ssl/certs by default
Apr 13 21:02:15 <NIN101> openssl version -a gives the path
Apr 13 21:02:55 <NIN101> which on maemo gives /usr/lib/ssl for me, which has symlinks back to /etc/ssl/
Apr 13 21:03:30 <bencoh> does it work then ?
Apr 13 21:03:37 <NIN101> no, it can't verify any website.
Apr 13 21:03:44 <bencoh> havent been able to make openssl -verify work on debian
Apr 13 21:05:24 <NIN101> for example, "openssl s_client -connect encrypted.google.com:443" returns "verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate".
Apr 13 21:06:58 <bencoh> same on debian
Apr 13 21:12:56 <NIN101> hmm, indeed. odd.
Apr 13 22:28:55 <grummund> Hi all, i don't know where else to ask this...
Apr 13 22:29:21 <grummund> my N900 is giving 'double beeps' periodically
Apr 13 22:29:40 <grummund> battery is showing 95%
Apr 13 22:30:02 <grummund> what's it trying to tell me?
Apr 13 23:12:04 <Maxdamantus> grummund: try looking at dmesg
Apr 13 23:13:03 * Maxdamantus would imagine it might mean a missed call though.
Apr 13 23:13:18 <Maxdamantus> Dunno. Haven't had many phone calls since getting mine.
Apr 13 23:14:28 <grummund> it's not missed call
Apr 13 23:15:16 <grummund> also, Profile is on silent
Apr 13 23:17:58 <grummund> it's the kind of alert you'd exepect from a device that was dying, e.g. lo batt alert.
Apr 14 00:00:14 <grummund> doh! it wasn't the N900 it was the dect phone on the desk next to it </slap forehead>
Apr 14 01:20:44 <DocScrutinizer05> double-beeps, sounds like inbound SMS. But those should stop after 2 double beeps
Apr 14 01:21:33 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, how often I said "I should read backscroll  bottom up instead of top down"
Apr 14 01:41:33 <Luke-Jr> DocScrutinizer05: there's no winning; it gets confusing going bottom up often :/\
Apr 14 01:41:51 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Apr 14 01:42:42 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I should do post-it notes for replies I find I wanna send, while reading top down til bottom
Apr 14 01:43:45 <DocScrutinizer05> does wtf emoticons?
Apr 14 01:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf :/\
Apr 14 01:43:57 <infobot> usage: wtf <foo>.
Apr 14 01:44:03 <Luke-Jr> that was a typo for :/ 
Apr 14 01:44:05 <Luke-Jr> ☺
Apr 14 01:45:35 <DocScrutinizer05> *sigh*, dunno if I ever felt such a severe burnout like I currently do
Apr 14 01:46:00 <Luke-Jr> ?
Apr 14 01:46:11 <DocScrutinizer05> seriously considering to sell my complete IT and get a pony
Apr 14 01:46:27 <DocScrutinizer05> or a bat, or a cat
Apr 14 01:46:40 <Luke-Jr> I consider that probably once or twice a year :x
Apr 14 01:47:14 <Luke-Jr> except I'm usually thinking more like cow and plants, to be a farmer
Apr 14 01:47:16 <Luke-Jr> :p
Apr 14 01:47:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Apr 14 01:47:49 <DocScrutinizer05> or simply become a monk
Apr 14 01:48:00 <Luke-Jr> lol
Apr 14 01:48:12 <Luke-Jr> I don't have that kind of self-discipline XD
Apr 14 01:48:35 <DocScrutinizer05> though, even those use IT nowadays, for managing their finances
Apr 14 01:49:30 <Luke-Jr> well, at the current rate, the internet is just going to die soon enough anyway
Apr 14 01:49:42 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if those momks who never speak are allowed to IRC ;-P
Apr 14 01:49:55 <Luke-Jr> the other day over 1/3 of the trans-atlantic backbone traffic was a DDoS attack against a gratis service I help run
Apr 14 01:50:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I might consider helping a bit on that dieing
Apr 14 01:50:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I had an idea about an NZP virus today
Apr 14 01:50:26 <DocScrutinizer05> NTP
Apr 14 01:50:42 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh!
Apr 14 01:50:48 <DocScrutinizer05> 1/3?
Apr 14 01:50:50 <DocScrutinizer05> dang!
Apr 14 01:51:07 <Luke-Jr> yeah, very annoying and hard to mitigate
Apr 14 01:51:28 <Luke-Jr> although we managed to survive it since one of the other guys has upstream access to most of the US backbone routers
Apr 14 01:51:39 <Luke-Jr> basically uploading a whitelist of known user IPs to them all
Apr 14 01:51:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.digitalattackmap.com/#anim=1&color=0&country=ALL&time=16104&view=map
Apr 14 01:51:51 <DocScrutinizer05> yesterday?
Apr 14 01:52:07 <Luke-Jr> it's been ongoing for like 1-2 months now; I don't recall which day reached 1/3
Apr 14 01:52:30 <Luke-Jr> probably more like a week ago
Apr 14 01:53:04 <DocScrutinizer05> which of the streams in that map is it?
Apr 14 01:53:32 <DocScrutinizer05> UDP; misuse?
Apr 14 01:56:49 <Luke-Jr> pretty sure it's all TCP at this point
Apr 14 01:57:15 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, that URL is messed up
Apr 14 01:57:40 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.digitalattackmap.com/
Apr 14 01:58:15 * DocScrutinizer05 hates dynamic "CNAMES"
Apr 14 01:58:28 <DocScrutinizer05> or forwards or whatever that is
Apr 14 01:58:42 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't create bookmarks that make sense
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 14 03:00:00 2014