**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 11 02:59:59 2014
Jun 11 05:04:26 <frals> Tekk_: what connection mode did you set in fmms? some of them tries to set up the connection manually, which will disconnect the active connection, which is what you might be seeing
Jun 11 05:11:22 <Tekk_> frals: I actually got it to work with reconfiguration
Jun 11 05:11:25 <Tekk_> sorry for not mentioning
Jun 11 05:11:30 <Tekk_> seems that my issues weren't mms related though :/
Jun 11 05:13:58 <frals> cool
Jun 11 06:40:02 <kerio> frals: how did you manage to open the secondary umts connection?
Jun 11 06:51:16 <frals> kerio: icd did the heavy lifting for me iirc
Jun 11 06:51:26 <frals> i just asked for another context and it set it up if it was possible
Jun 11 08:35:38 <Psi> anyone know about n900's PCB and hardware
Jun 11 08:36:30 <Psi> my n900 isnt being detected by the PC. Ive taken it apart and cleaned it out, pcb socket mounting is intact but i did find the cracked part of a tiny SMT IC loose inside the case
Jun 11 08:40:07 <Psi> http://psi.abcom.co.nz/n900pcb.jpg
Jun 11 08:40:25 <Psi> sorry, i meant to say before, USB socket mounting is intact
Jun 11 10:43:12 <DocScrutinizer05> that SIM card looked strangely familiar ;-P
Jun 11 10:47:06 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05: more pottering https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74589
Jun 11 11:13:26 <hurrian> Agge: wow, seriously? On older systemd versions, IIRC it just yells at you in red text that you need $CONFIG_* options =Y, and then drops you to a shell.
Jun 11 11:14:24 <Agge> I am always suprised that pottering is alowed to handle computers after pulseaudio
Jun 11 11:29:09 <kerio> rofl
Jun 11 11:29:21 <kerio> init needs /proc guys
Jun 11 11:29:51 <kerio> it's not like it's literally the only thing running so it knows everything
Jun 11 11:51:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Agge: (more poettering) yes, I know - this been the bug Linus referred to in his bashing
Jun 11 11:51:22 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope, this is a related bug
Jun 11 11:51:42 <DocScrutinizer05> a nasty one
Jun 11 11:51:55 <DocScrutinizer05> poettering says it's a feature
Jun 11 11:52:07 <bencoh> yeah right, everything's a feature
Jun 11 11:52:08 <DocScrutinizer05> as usual. As with nuked /usr
Jun 11 11:52:18 <bencoh> nuked /usr ?
Jun 11 11:52:29 <DocScrutinizer05> as with obsolete and nuked udev
Jun 11 11:53:45 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: you didn't notice yet that /usr got fsckd up thoroughly, by deliberately violating the clearly described purpose of /usr, e.g. in:
Jun 11 11:53:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~optification
Jun 11 11:53:50 <infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
Jun 11 11:54:45 <DocScrutinizer05> FHS clearly stated /usr is meant to facilitate a dedicated own volume for /usr. systemd forbids this
Jun 11 11:56:12 <DocScrutinizer05> since systemd needs all crap from /usr/s?bin usually not needed during boot or on a singeuser-recovery-system
Jun 11 11:56:42 <DocScrutinizer05> so since systemd /usr must exist on rootfs, no own volume allowed anymore
Jun 11 11:56:43 <wnd> the more I hear and read about systemd, the more I dislike it. I wonder if life was/would have been any better with upstart.
Jun 11 11:58:05 <DocScrutinizer05> wnd: you probably missed the best yet: systemd does logging to a binary database, instead of a human-readable plain textfile
Jun 11 11:58:08 <wnd> also, I think Debian's move away from sysvinit was premature
Jun 11 11:58:48 <wnd> I suppose that binary database isn't even readable with hexdump
Jun 11 11:59:07 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Jun 11 11:59:08 <wnd> not that it would make things any better
Jun 11 12:07:21 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/  (/usr)
Jun 11 12:07:40 <DocScrutinizer05> >> put together by Harald Hoyer and Kay Sievers<<
Jun 11 12:13:03 <bencoh> "On Fedora the root directory contains ~450MB already" srsly ?!
Jun 11 12:15:15 <DocScrutinizer05> another pile of shit created by poettering, sievers and freinds, based on an arrogant ignorance resp denial of considerations for any platform not exactly workstation. "well, on your embedded system you're free to not use systemd, it's not meant for such platforms"
Jun 11 12:15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> suuuuure
Jun 11 12:15:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~freee
Jun 11 12:15:22 <infobot> rumour has it, freee is http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296
Jun 11 12:17:11 <DocScrutinizer05> the above "rationale" also conveniently ignores that Solaris is NOT meant to work on embedded systems
Jun 11 12:18:09 <DocScrutinizer05> "Solaris did it [this bullshit], so we are urged to do same [bullshit]" is not exactly a sane approach
Jun 11 12:19:03 <bencoh> "sane" ? what's this ? can we eat it ?
Jun 11 12:19:26 <DocScrutinizer05> who doesn't understand the purpose of search path, and never heard about namespaces for mount, and unionfs, really shouldn't mess with elementary stuff defined e.g. in FHS
Jun 11 12:21:35 <DocScrutinizer05> the above "rationale" also conveniently hides away the *true* motication for all this: systemd doesn't work on a real standrad compliant linux, since systemd needs all sorts of crap to boot up the system, crap that's not to be found in /bin or /sbin but only on /usr
Jun 11 12:21:46 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: gobolinux is so pretty, though
Jun 11 12:22:09 <jaska> could go plan9 and bindmount everything to /bin?:)
Jun 11 12:22:18 <bencoh> :))
Jun 11 12:22:38 <kerio> yeah
Jun 11 12:22:45 <kerio> at that point, why bother with /usr at all?
Jun 11 12:22:49 <kerio> just put everything in /bin
Jun 11 12:31:02 <DocScrutinizer05> jaska: you don't need plan9 for that, linux mount wil do that for you
Jun 11 12:31:31 <DocScrutinizer05> who doesn't understand the purpose of search path, and never heard about namespaces for mount, and unionfs, really shouldn't mess with elementary stuff defined e.g. in FHS
Jun 11 12:36:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<kerio> just put everything in /bin))  you got that wrong, it's "put everything in / "
Jun 11 12:37:03 <kerio> oh right
Jun 11 12:37:12 <kerio> think about how easy filesystems would be if you didn't have to deal with directories
Jun 11 12:37:23 <DocScrutinizer05> why bother about such nonsense like directories at all?
Jun 11 12:37:29 <kerio> it worked for DOS 4
Jun 11 12:37:33 <kerio> or smth
Jun 11 12:37:35 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jun 11 12:37:37 <kerio> maybe DOS 3
Jun 11 12:37:41 <DocScrutinizer05> dos2?
Jun 11 12:38:16 <DocScrutinizer05> dos1  :-P
Jun 11 14:17:32 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: you don't know how hard it is to deal with people who think a world without directories is a good thing
Jun 11 14:17:42 <jon_y> "Oh we'll just tag the files"
Jun 11 14:18:22 <jon_y> do it yourself, tag everything, one at a time, on a touch screen
Jun 11 14:18:46 <jon_y> I swear futurists don't know jack shit about practicality
Jun 11 14:36:04 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jun 11 14:36:32 <DocScrutinizer05> see tracker nonsense in maemo
Jun 11 14:36:40 <DocScrutinizer05> implementing exactly this
Jun 11 14:43:45 <r00t-home> "Today, a separate /usr partition already must be mounted by the initramfs during early boot"
Jun 11 14:43:51 <r00t-home> who came up with that crap?
Jun 11 14:45:01 <Agge> pottering?
Jun 11 14:45:18 <r00t-home> poEttering
Jun 11 14:46:51 <r00t-home> a few kb of their explanation... http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/
Jun 11 15:21:56 <DocScrutinizer05> a few kb of rubbish
Jun 11 15:42:08 <DocScrutinizer05> Nota Bene! freeDESKTOP.org  -- already the URL gives it away: this stuff gives a fart about anything not desktop, like embedded systems or servers or... you name it
Jun 11 15:47:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I could suffer a blood rush when I read that nonsense. Seems the authors not even ever heard of runlevels
Jun 11 15:48:40 <bencoh> actually some people want to get rid of it (runlevels)
Jun 11 15:48:41 <DocScrutinizer05> *of course* /usr/ is supposed to get mounted before system cranks up into multi-user or even network runlevel. That however doesn't mean that system will fail to boot into single-user when no /usr available
Jun 11 15:49:29 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, Poettering and Sievers are notorious to want to get rid of averything they don't really understand
Jun 11 15:49:43 <DocScrutinizer05> see ALSA, see sysV-init
Jun 11 15:50:09 <bencoh> :)
Jun 11 15:50:13 <DocScrutinizer05> actually, see unix(-compatibility)
Jun 11 15:50:26 <bencoh> is it friday already btw ? :)
Jun 11 15:50:41 <DocScrutinizer05> feels like
Jun 11 15:50:53 <DocScrutinizer05> virtual Friday
Jun 11 15:53:38 <DocScrutinizer05> at least Poettering and Sievers faithfuly follow >>"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer<<
Jun 11 15:54:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~freee
Jun 11 15:54:13 <infobot> somebody said freee was http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296
Jun 11 15:54:43 <DocScrutinizer05> note the beer bottle ;-P
Jun 11 16:10:55 <Agge> ~flasher
Jun 11 16:10:56 <infobot> from memory, flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jun 11 16:18:01 <b_> this lack of phone is bs. If I leave the n900 I trade everything I have and love on the n900 for a faster working device. It's the only phone I can use now without having to meddle with it to get what I want out of it
Jun 11 16:19:32 <Agge> ~initrd.img
Jun 11 16:19:41 <Agge> :(
Jun 11 16:20:05 <sixwheeledbeast> ~listkeys initrd
Jun 11 16:20:07 <infobot> Factoid search of 'initrd' by key (7): maybe it has something to do with initrd, it ;; so what about the initrd, what ;; afaik initrd ;; reason i'm thinking initrd ;; i have no initrd, and hte system ;; initrd ;; initrd+pivot_root.
Jun 11 16:23:31 <DocScrutinizer05> Agge: ???
Jun 11 16:23:41 <DocScrutinizer05> we have no initrd on maemo5
Jun 11 16:23:54 <DocScrutinizer05> rescueos is using an initrd
Jun 11 16:23:58 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Jun 11 16:24:07 <Agge> yeah it is that one I was looking from
Jun 11 16:24:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rescueos
Jun 11 16:24:18 <infobot> methinks rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/
Jun 11 16:24:38 <Agge> guessing I extrakt the initrd from the img
Jun 11 16:24:58 <DocScrutinizer05> for what purpose?
Jun 11 16:26:08 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui the whole rescueos is only an initrd and nothing more
Jun 11 16:26:42 <DocScrutinizer05> an initrd NOLO loads to RAM and executes it
Jun 11 16:26:50 <kerio> eyup
Jun 11 16:26:53 <DocScrutinizer05> from USB, to RAM
Jun 11 16:27:02 <kerio> it's literally just kernel and initrd
Jun 11 16:27:04 <Agge> ok. need conteeny to read abot it
Jun 11 16:27:05 <kerio> both loaded to ram
Jun 11 16:27:26 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: right, I forgot about the kernel
Jun 11 16:57:48 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05: sould I use the rescue img instade of initrd.img in this comand  "flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" ?
Jun 11 17:26:11 <Agge> got rescueos started on the phone that do alredy work. but no change to the one that dident work got this output on the non funktoning http://bpaste.net/show/363705/ 
Jun 11 17:31:34 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that looks pretty good
Jun 11 17:32:08 <DocScrutinizer05> NOLO seems to work
Jun 11 17:32:36 <DocScrutinizer05> you might face some hw problem
Jun 11 17:34:06 <DocScrutinizer05> compare your output to the one you got for working N900
Jun 11 17:34:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess they are identical
Jun 11 17:34:57 <bencoh> "well, that looks pretty good" "you might face some hw problem" that's .... :]
Jun 11 17:36:30 <DocScrutinizer05> what can I say? the pastebin looks perfectly OK
Jun 11 17:36:52 <Agge> yeah and the working one boots into rescueos
Jun 11 17:37:22 <DocScrutinizer05> when the device "doesn't work" I guess it must have other problems with peripheral hw that defeat proper system init
Jun 11 17:37:42 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g. broken display connector flex cable
Jun 11 17:38:00 <Agge> any idea if it is posible to copy all data from it with usb or somthing?
Jun 11 17:38:30 <DocScrutinizer05> rescueos is supposed to offer a USB console and also export the fs
Jun 11 17:38:42 <DocScrutinizer05> but don't ask me how to enable either
Jun 11 17:39:06 <Agge> broken dispay connector sounds posible. had some problem with the digitilizer
Jun 11 17:39:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I never used/tested rescueos so far
Jun 11 17:39:29 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's exactly what it looks like
Jun 11 17:39:47 <DocScrutinizer05> the device is known to not come up without display
Jun 11 17:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly some driver blows chunks
Jun 11 17:40:14 <Agge> is that hard to fix?
Jun 11 17:40:15 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even X11
Jun 11 17:40:40 <DocScrutinizer05> err, not really. You need a new flex cable (~7EUR) and replace it
Jun 11 17:41:02 <Agge> from what I found the usb suport needs to be enabled after it starts :(
Jun 11 17:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes it's even just one of the connectors that's not properly seated
Jun 11 17:41:06 <Agge> aha nice
Jun 11 17:41:26 <Agge> think it was that with the digitilicer
Jun 11 17:42:16 <DocScrutinizer05> but the B2B connector at end of flex connector from screen to main PCB is crap, a 3 layers of more or less flexible PCB soldered together to form a sandwich
Jun 11 17:42:23 <DocScrutinizer05> bend it and byebye
Jun 11 17:43:57 <DocScrutinizer05> the solder joints snap open and the display acts up, or even the whole device doesn't come up anymore and acts "funny"
Jun 11 17:44:28 <kerio> solid engineering
Jun 11 17:45:23 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 11 17:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/n900-flex-cable.html
Jun 11 17:45:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ebay has better offers, but I'm too lazy now
Jun 11 17:46:25 <Agge> thank you
Jun 11 17:56:09 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=n900+flex+cable&_nkw=nokia+n900+flex+cable
Jun 11 17:56:23 <kerio> ^ not too lazy, but a liar
Jun 11 17:57:05 <Agge> thanks Doc
Jun 11 17:57:32 <Agge> nice that parts like that is still avalible :)
Jun 11 18:04:53 <Agge> DocScrutinizer05: looks like it is the conector. managed to enable usb mass storage on the N900 without  the screen starting :)
Jun 11 18:07:25 <DocScrutinizer05> fine
Jun 11 18:07:44 <Agge> Nice to know what is wrong :)
Jun 11 18:07:52 <Agge> Thanks for all help
Jun 11 18:11:27 <DocScrutinizer05> yw :-)
Jun 11 19:29:23 <tkai> join #freakshow
Jun 11 20:05:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, #freakshow is the right channel for him ;-P
Jun 11 20:30:35 <elias_a> Mrcrab does not to give N9 firmware files at the moment and skeiron.org does not seem to exist anymore. Any source for firmware files?
Jun 11 20:46:08 <elias_a> False alert. Nokia servers still work. :)
Jun 11 20:58:04 <DocScrutinizer05> how long?
Jun 11 21:18:53 <kerio> how long must we sing this song?
Jun 11 21:19:07 <kerio> how long? how long?
Jun 11 21:57:06 <sixwheeledbeast> skeiron, what's skeiron but an northwesternly wind ;)
Jun 11 22:59:33 <DocScrutinizer05> a faint memory maybe
Jun 12 01:02:40 <mtnman> hello
Jun 12 01:03:24 <mtnman> where is a good place to get a trusted copy of rootfs for flachi
Jun 12 01:03:40 <mtnman> for flashing n900
Jun 12 01:14:44 <mtnman> anybody home?
Jun 12 01:20:25 <mtnman> hello
Jun 12 01:21:35 <DocScrutinizer05> hello
Jun 12 01:21:49 <DocScrutinizer05> copy of rootfs?
Jun 12 01:22:10 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe use this? ->
Jun 12 01:22:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined
Jun 12 01:22:14 <infobot> well, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jun 12 01:23:27 <DocScrutinizer05> you also might be interested in
Jun 12 01:23:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ~emmc
Jun 12 01:23:32 <infobot> hmm... emmc is magnet:?xt=urn:btih:402fb5cc8a48ecbc18a77c9cf70d869a775bcf53&dn=RX-51%5F2009SE%5F10.2010.13-2.VANILLA%5FPR%5FEMMC%5FMR0%5FARM.bin or https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4105928/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.torrent, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin
Jun 12 01:23:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and
Jun 12 01:23:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flasher
Jun 12 01:23:39 <infobot> it has been said that flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jun 12 01:27:06 <mtnman> thanks doc ill check it out
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 12 02:59:59 2014