**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 17 02:59:59 2014 Jul 17 03:31:18 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jul 17 06:11:43 ~flasher Jul 17 06:11:44 i heard flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Jul 17 07:50:00 Hm. So dumping/restoring el-v1.db didn't fix it. Looked like it only saved one message afterwards for that person. Jul 17 07:50:13 but it saves messages for other contacts. Jul 17 07:51:43 What sort of corruption is it said to actually be? Jul 17 07:53:24 corruption because the program is stupid (so produces tables it doesn't understand), or because sqlite3 has bugs, or because the file itself corrupts (from the filesystem)? Jul 17 07:56:19 I guess another form could be where sqlite3 leaves the database in an inconsistent state if the program exits for some reason .. dunno if the rt-messaging thing does that. Jul 17 07:57:11 assuming sqlite3 doesn't use some transactional system to prevent that. Jul 17 08:11:57 Mm .. without replacing the el-v1.db file at all, just killing the process using it (so it restarted), it saved some messages that were resent (by the network—not sure how the protocol works there). Jul 17 08:13:16 Just one message. Jul 17 08:22:29 Could there be a 200-message limit? Jul 17 08:23:09 The contact has 202 for read_events in GroupCache Jul 17 08:23:35 and the last field, "CONSTRAINT factor UNIQUE(service_id, group_uid)" is 1, unlike all the others, which are 0. Jul 17 08:24:37 Maybe it intends to delete earlier messages after 200, which could be triggering some bug. Jul 17 08:33:11 Don't think so. Jul 17 08:52:03 hi Jul 17 08:52:38 my n900's clock is speeding at a rate 2min/week, is there any automatic fix for it that doesn't include ntpd? Jul 17 08:53:15 I'd love an opinion on that as well Jul 17 08:53:26 i could use cron, but maybe there is an app already done? Jul 17 08:55:18 a cron for that sounds ugly Jul 17 08:55:54 my first thought was that first i measure how fast it speeds up then fix it once per day Jul 17 08:56:25 and cron is doable, ugly but doable Jul 17 08:56:49 KotCzarny: are you sure the drifting doesn't depend on clock speeds? Jul 17 08:57:02 clock is speeding, so you'll go back in time everyday Jul 17 08:57:06 definitely sounds bad :p Jul 17 08:57:15 kerio, im not changing clock speed, at leAst im not using it actively Jul 17 08:57:20 blindly removing two minutes for each week doesn't seem like a good idea Jul 17 08:57:30 you are changing clock speed all the time Jul 17 08:57:36 between 0 and 500 Jul 17 08:57:47 kerio, but it's quite consistent that i have to fix the clock manually by 1-2 minutes every 2-3 weeks Jul 17 08:57:52 ok Jul 17 08:58:22 that's why fixing it via cron is better than me having to click it through menus Jul 17 08:58:43 and since it's required periodically... Jul 17 08:59:04 otherwise, is there any tool to get time via gsm network? Jul 17 08:59:26 there should be something like that already in the settings Jul 17 08:59:33 but it depends on your network Jul 17 08:59:39 it doesn't work at all for me Jul 17 08:59:44 (h3g italy) Jul 17 09:00:08 i'm on 'plusgsm', but automatic time never worked for me Jul 17 09:00:27 hrm Jul 17 09:00:36 weird, it worked when i enable it right now Jul 17 09:00:39 you could use gps Jul 17 09:00:43 maybe network got some upgrade Jul 17 09:00:52 gps fix is.. well.. slow? Jul 17 09:00:54 ;) Jul 17 09:01:06 but free Jul 17 09:01:17 and it works even in the middle of the sahara desert Jul 17 09:01:22 nothing is free, you pay in battery charge Jul 17 09:01:41 definitely Jul 17 09:01:52 still, weird as it is, it got time from gsm network now Jul 17 09:02:01 gsm network clock update doesnt seem to work for me either Jul 17 09:02:06 (france sfr) Jul 17 09:07:00 hrm Jul 17 09:07:16 weird there is no tool to get gsm network time/date Jul 17 09:07:35 it's not something you can poll for, i think Jul 17 09:07:59 AT+CCLK? Jul 17 09:08:25 i dunno Jul 17 09:08:31 it's not a question Jul 17 09:08:43 well Jul 17 09:08:44 it's the command that modems can use Jul 17 09:08:46 sudo pnatd Jul 17 09:13:04 KotCzarny: there's no cron on maemo Jul 17 09:13:14 doc: that's easily fixable Jul 17 09:13:18 check 'alarmed' Jul 17 09:13:21 *alarmd Jul 17 09:13:26 oh no you mean the addition Jul 17 09:14:27 i can even write something like: while [ 1 ]; do fix_clock; sleep 1209600; done Jul 17 09:14:34 and run it once per startup Jul 17 09:16:38 AT+CCLK probbaly reads the modem's internal cmos clock, not the network's notion of time Jul 17 09:17:10 could be Jul 17 09:17:22 adjtime - correct the time to synchronize the system clock Jul 17 09:17:25 found it Jul 17 09:17:34 standard linux command to fix time Jul 17 09:17:35 network sends time/date via some sort of broadcast Jul 17 09:18:06 I stronly deprecate use of adjtime Jul 17 09:18:17 what do you propose instead? Jul 17 09:18:24 ntp :) Jul 17 09:18:29 mind you, i don't want to pay for network usage Jul 17 09:18:59 indeed, but first of all check what's your system's CMOS clock in relation to system clock Jul 17 09:19:03 not to mention it would have to enable network, fix time, disable network, and run periodically Jul 17 09:19:17 n900 has cmos clock? Jul 17 09:19:21 since when? Jul 17 09:19:23 :) Jul 17 09:19:23 sure Jul 17 09:19:32 every time i remove battery time is lost Jul 17 09:19:42 it even has power-up on cmos alarm Jul 17 09:20:24 you can set an alarm in maemo osso-clock and then switch down the device. Will power up in time to make alarm yell Jul 17 09:20:31 KotCzarny: it's because the backup battery is known to fail Jul 17 09:20:32 that i know Jul 17 09:20:47 kerio, then it was failed fresh from factory Jul 17 09:20:51 so how do you think that works without a cmos aka hw clock? Jul 17 09:20:56 KotCzarny: eyup, something like that Jul 17 09:21:11 doc: low power subsystem that's independent from device? Jul 17 09:21:23 but powered by the same battery and connected via gpios ? Jul 17 09:21:25 aka cmos clock ;-) Jul 17 09:21:37 :) Jul 17 09:21:38 it's just the hardware clock Jul 17 09:21:42 as opposed to the software clcok Jul 17 09:21:44 *clokc Jul 17 09:21:45 fuck Jul 17 09:21:47 ok, hwclock should work then? Jul 17 09:21:49 clock Jul 17 09:21:49 and not connected viy gpio but integrated into twl4030 Jul 17 09:21:50 yeah Jul 17 09:21:56 kerio: cluck? Jul 17 09:22:06 hwclock should work, yes Jul 17 09:22:07 once you know the correct time, hwclock --sys-to-hw Jul 17 09:22:13 modulo correct option name Jul 17 09:22:26 correct Jul 17 09:22:50 though you don't need that, I guess the maemo settings for time already does it Jul 17 09:22:51 i think it returns same time as system Jul 17 09:23:33 yup Jul 17 09:23:35 man hwclock Jul 17 09:23:56 there's that notorious /etc/adjtime file Jul 17 09:23:56 just checked and time in system changed the same moment as in hwclock -r Jul 17 09:24:40 kernel however has "11 minute mode" Jul 17 09:24:50 again, see man hwclock Jul 17 09:25:11 and man ntpd or somesuch Jul 17 09:25:36 busybox's hwclock is limited Jul 17 09:26:16 make sure you never do a hwclock --sys-to-hw on system shutdown. you only may do this when you just adjusted system time to the correct time Jul 17 09:26:43 i hever did hwclock on n900 before Jul 17 09:27:19 still i have /etc/adjtime Jul 17 09:27:40 when you garble your correction factor in /etc/adjtime file, you will be in for *really* nasty effects, like time of by centuries on every boot Jul 17 09:27:59 :) Jul 17 09:28:43 garbling that factor is easy when doing hwclock --sys2hc on a system with incorrect system time Jul 17 09:29:07 gotta try hwclock's solution in following month Jul 17 09:29:12 to see if it's viable solution Jul 17 09:29:25 that's why your initscripts MUST NOT use hwclock --sys2hc on shutdown Jul 17 09:29:42 alas most linux distros do exactly that nevertheless Jul 17 09:29:52 do n900's default scripts use hwlock? Jul 17 09:29:59 I dunno Jul 17 09:30:08 prolly not in the deprecated way Jul 17 09:30:45 they will probably use hwclock --hw2sys on boot Jul 17 09:31:42 or that's all managed by closed blob nokia timed Jul 17 09:34:38 err clockd Jul 17 09:35:42 cat /etc/init.d/hwclock Jul 17 09:36:24 fuuuUUUuuuu... Jul 17 09:36:28 stop() Jul 17 09:36:28 eheheh Jul 17 09:36:29 { Jul 17 09:36:31 if test -x "/sbin/hwclock"; then Jul 17 09:36:32 echo -n 'Synching system time to hardware clock ... ' Jul 17 09:36:34 /sbin/hwclock -w Jul 17 09:36:56 gotta disable it too Jul 17 09:38:13 4 years in use and found only now? Jul 17 09:38:15 IroN900:~# hwclock;date Jul 17 09:38:16 Thu Jul 17 11:37:59 2014 0.000000 seconds Jul 17 09:38:18 Do., 17. Jul. 2014 11:37:58 CEST Jul 17 09:39:19 consistently a 1s late systime to cmos clock Jul 17 09:39:54 you could try setting systime via settings and then check if cmos clock got updated too Jul 17 09:40:14 http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1362546 Jul 17 09:40:15 immediately after, 10min after Jul 17 09:40:17 also nice Jul 17 09:40:26 wtf? why IP? Jul 17 09:40:33 dont know, google result Jul 17 09:40:47 never use google results with IP in them Jul 17 09:40:59 if im looking for info i'm now afraid Jul 17 09:41:03 and particularly don't post those links anywhere Jul 17 09:41:06 for software, yes Jul 17 09:51:07 actually, thanks to the broken bupbat, you never should use hwclock --sys2hc with adjusting function of scew factor in /etc/adjtime Jul 17 09:51:18 DocScrutinizer05: why is tmo responding to an ip address? Jul 17 09:51:27 instead of rightfully answering 404? Jul 17 09:52:01 next time you remove battery and adjust time after booting up, you will introduce an adjustment factor of ~14 years per hour Jul 17 09:52:11 doc, i rarely had to remove battery Jul 17 09:52:23 so hwtime could work Jul 17 09:52:30 assuming it gets it's data right Jul 17 09:53:59 then when you shut down your device for 10h and boot it up again, your hw clock will receive an adjustment of 140 years into the future Jul 17 09:54:38 we will see Jul 17 09:54:45 :D Jul 17 09:54:53 now figure you correct those 140 years and hwclock gets to know of it ;-P Jul 17 09:54:54 best phone ever Jul 17 09:54:59 also doubles as a time machine Jul 17 09:55:37 try to find out what the correction factor will be after you turning back system time by 140 years Jul 17 09:55:40 pity ntpdate is in extras-devel still Jul 17 09:56:14 i guess most regular debian packages should be in extras Jul 17 09:56:27 at least those console ones Jul 17 09:57:34 I tell you about correction factor: it involves time between last time you adjusted hwclock and this time you adjust hw clock, and those 140 years difference Jul 17 09:57:43 plus some more math magic Jul 17 09:57:48 KotCzarny: "ntpd -q" does the same thing Jul 17 09:58:07 DocScrutinizer05: can't you just rm /etc/adjtime? Jul 17 09:58:18 hwclock -w creates it Jul 17 09:58:21 not really since it also has TZ Jul 17 09:58:31 no, that's /etc/localtime Jul 17 09:58:32 iirc Jul 17 09:58:41 isnt timezone in /etc/timezone ? Jul 17 09:58:58 it's /etc/localtime that's a symlink to the appropriate zoneinfo file Jul 17 09:59:00 something like that is in rtc/adjfile as well Jul 17 09:59:05 which can be in /etc/zoneinfo, /usr/share/zoneinfo Jul 17 09:59:19 right, zoneinfo Jul 17 09:59:30 I usually end up copying a clean template adjtime file to the real one on each boot Jul 17 09:59:47 erm, /etc/timezone in slackware Jul 17 10:00:03 /etc/TZ in uclibc based things Jul 17 10:00:23 ntpd: not found Jul 17 10:00:24 :P Jul 17 10:01:14 --adjust Jul 17 10:01:16 Add or subtract time from the Hardware Clock to account for systematic drift since the last time the clock was set or adjusted. See discussion below. Jul 17 10:01:38 as long as you don't use that, everything fine I guess Jul 17 10:03:31 or even always use --noadjfile plus other needed parameters for -utc or whatever Jul 17 10:03:56 btw. hwclock is ran only on boot Jul 17 10:04:10 so it's not the 2min/2weeks b0rking factor Jul 17 10:05:05 hmm? Jul 17 10:05:17 it's not ran via cron or anything Jul 17 10:05:24 cat /etc/init.d/hwclock Jul 17 10:05:32 so it won't fix/change the time on running device Jul 17 10:06:00 unless one would calibrate it and run it periodically Jul 17 10:06:12 which is going back to cron resolution Jul 17 10:06:16 yup, that's why I suggested to check if your RTC is more accurate than sysclock, which quite usually is the case Jul 17 10:06:37 my rtc is synced with system time Jul 17 10:07:16 then you probably have something like "automatic time by GSM" enabled Jul 17 10:07:21 nope Jul 17 10:07:49 could it be that some system package syncs time from rtc periodically? Jul 17 10:07:50 then nothing in system SHALL sync hw clock to sysclock on a regular basis Jul 17 10:08:07 it's your guess or you've checked all the code? Jul 17 10:08:10 *from* RTC, that may actually be Jul 17 10:08:31 no, that's mere deduction Jul 17 10:08:35 ~2119 Jul 17 10:08:36 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Jul 17 10:09:06 ~rtc Jul 17 10:09:06 hmm... rtc is implemented transparently unless sa1100-rtc is loaded. hwclock unnecessary. Jul 17 10:09:16 actually I think sysclock simply stalls when CPU goes into deep suspend Jul 17 10:09:39 but then rtc should deviate from systime Jul 17 10:09:52 could it be that something syncs time when waking up? Jul 17 10:09:57 which it does for me, by 1s Jul 17 10:10:05 yes, of course Jul 17 10:10:16 1s could be ioport access delay or something Jul 17 10:10:24 as its consistent Jul 17 10:10:29 check in a week to confirm Jul 17 10:10:48 not when the later invoked system time is 1s *behind* Jul 17 10:12:04 I seem to recall that on a true suspend a linux system reads out RTC, calculates difference to sysclock, and resets the sys clock to RTC+difference on resume Jul 17 10:12:26 so it's not exactly a sync Jul 17 10:12:45 and for sure no adjustment of RTC Jul 17 10:12:46 s/sync/adjust/ Jul 17 10:13:10 but again, that's for true suspend-to-ram etc Jul 17 10:13:20 which maemo isn't supposed to do Jul 17 10:13:31 one would have to check kernel patches for n900 Jul 17 10:13:58 n900 uses armel, right? Jul 17 10:13:58 nevertheless maemo / omap3 stops master system clock when CPU goes idle, so obviously sysclock will stall as well Jul 17 10:14:07 armel, right Jul 17 10:14:50 there's aslo an adjust field for sysclock Jul 17 10:14:57 somewhere in kernel Jul 17 10:15:13 that's what hwclock uses probably Jul 17 10:15:19 to make all jiffies and whatnot have better accuracy Jul 17 10:15:21 as adjtime is a linux c call Jul 17 10:15:46 5,2 adjtime yes Jul 17 10:15:53 sth like that Jul 17 10:16:29 but it only operates for drift in master system clockgenerator (28MHz?) Jul 17 10:16:49 so only adjusts sysclock accuracy while sysclock actually running Jul 17 10:18:35 I gather a PM kernel has patches to read out RTC pretty frequently to update sysclock after master-CPU-clock(damn the ambiguity between clock=watch and clock=oscillator) got stopped for a second or an hour Jul 17 10:20:55 KotCzarny: anyway, two facts seem to hold true: nothing in system should adjust the RTC unless you set time manually or from external higher stratum source (e.g. GPS, GSM, ntp) Jul 17 10:21:15 yeah, 'nothing SHOULD' Jul 17 10:21:33 but apparently time drifts noticably Jul 17 10:21:34 and you probably can set up ntp in a way to frequently adjust sysclock to RTC Jul 17 10:22:11 and obviously the /etc/init.d/hwclock stop is BS Jul 17 10:22:31 it only has a chance to b0rk the time on reboot Jul 17 10:22:33 cargo cult coding Jul 17 10:24:11 read what I wrote, about when to expect RTC getting adjusted, and patch /etc/init.d/hwclock stop. Then get a alarmed job that does a hwclock --hctosys once a day Jul 17 10:24:11 offtopic, can i remap eur key to | Jul 17 10:24:37 ~kbd Jul 17 10:24:37 Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ Jul 17 10:24:49 ~leete kbd Jul 17 10:25:04 damn, why can't i recall that factoid name Jul 17 10:25:21 ~keyboard Jul 17 10:25:22 methinks keyboard is The main input device on PCs, it consists of all the letters in the alphabet and the numbers 0 through 9. Usually, especially on computer keyboards, there are extra keys like cursor keys and function keys. Jul 17 10:25:24 kerio to the rescue! Jul 17 10:25:32 ~remap Jul 17 10:26:06 i wat Jul 17 10:26:14 leete kbd mapping Jul 17 10:26:15 ~vikbd Jul 17 10:26:19 btw. infobot is wrong, my keyboard doesn't have all keys from MY alphabet Jul 17 10:26:19 or something Jul 17 10:26:23 sth like that Jul 17 10:26:24 it was vi___'s keyboard layout Jul 17 10:26:43 KotCzarny: your alphabet is wrong, then! Jul 17 10:26:53 localizations hell Jul 17 10:26:55 as usual Jul 17 10:27:07 ~listkeys vi kbd Jul 17 10:27:09 Factoid search of 'vi kbd' by key returned no results. Jul 17 10:27:13 ~listkeys vi*kbd Jul 17 10:27:15 Factoid search of 'vi*kbd' by key (1): vi-kbd. Jul 17 10:27:25 ~vi-kbd Jul 17 10:27:25 rumour has it, vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping Jul 17 10:27:59 ~#maemo kbd is see vi-kbd Jul 17 10:28:00 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jul 17 10:28:03 ~kbd Jul 17 10:28:04 methinks vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping Jul 17 10:28:21 once and for all now Jul 17 10:28:29 ;-P Jul 17 10:28:50 you have just removed old info: Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ Jul 17 10:29:06 ~_default kbd Jul 17 10:29:07 Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ Jul 17 10:29:40 hrm Jul 17 10:29:49 i have to recompile kernel to use that map? Jul 17 10:29:57 nope! Jul 17 10:29:59 :-o Jul 17 10:30:04 good Jul 17 10:30:09 looked like so for a moment Jul 17 10:30:52 'sup Jul 17 10:30:54 >>WARNING! This article assumes you have read the main article on remapping keyboard!<< Jul 17 10:31:40 >>You need to edit this file on your N900: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51<< Jul 17 10:32:06 Do not place the copy in the nokia_vndr folder or it will stop your phone from booting Jul 17 10:32:10 :P Jul 17 10:32:16 this is more important Jul 17 10:32:17 ;) Jul 17 10:32:49 **the copy** Jul 17 10:33:07 yeah, and how editors usually make backups of edited files? Jul 17 10:33:37 you're not suposed to use such editor on system files Jul 17 10:33:45 not true Jul 17 10:33:57 vi IS the unix editor for system files Jul 17 10:34:11 though on linux it usually makes no backups Jul 17 10:34:35 and I never seen vi do a filename~ or whatever in hte dir of the editied source by defualt Jul 17 10:35:09 still, i usually make a copy with .orig extension before i start to break things Jul 17 10:35:34 tjere's quite a number of dirs in a linux system that are not tolerant to creating bogus files in them Jul 17 10:35:42 I do get .file.swp when editing something with vim.. Jul 17 10:36:00 DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer05 vi creates a .$FILENAME.swp by default Jul 17 10:36:29 that's a pretty bad behavior Jul 17 10:36:55 why? You shouldn't use files that begin with . in a glob search. Jul 17 10:37:05 eh?? Jul 17 10:37:44 how's that paradigm related to e.g. etc/rc3/* ? Jul 17 10:38:00 ls /etc/rc3/* Jul 17 10:38:02 doesn't list dotfiles Jul 17 10:38:20 I bet init is pretty happy about that Jul 17 10:38:35 init shouldn't load files that begin with a dot Jul 17 10:38:45 shouldn't Jul 17 10:38:46 and AFAIK, it doesn't. Jul 17 10:38:47 pff Jul 17 10:39:17 it's generally a poor idea to mess in system dirs with tools you don't completely understand how they work Jul 17 10:41:08 and I don't think I feel tempted to read the source of whatever kbd mapping related code to know if it will care about /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/.$FILENAME.swp Jul 17 10:41:56 i thinks its not about filenaming Jul 17 10:42:02 but just scanning files in dir Jul 17 10:42:09 exactly Jul 17 10:42:11 if it uses a POSIX wildcard, it won't pick it up. Jul 17 10:42:18 and looking for code blocks that match Jul 17 10:45:02 anyway, good chat. Jul 17 10:45:08 'later. Jul 17 10:45:22 :-) Jul 17 10:46:27 btw NOKIA_vndr and POSIX? really now? ;-P Jul 17 10:47:27 anyway thanks for pointing at the general posix rule regarding that. didn't know such rule exists Jul 17 10:48:50 moin :) Jul 17 10:54:00 hey, people... my second n900's usb eventually broken. can I transfer contacts to n810? (while battery still alive) Jul 17 10:54:40 damn usb connectors Jul 17 10:54:51 noray: bluetooth? Jul 17 10:54:56 wifi? Jul 17 10:55:03 sd card? Jul 17 10:55:49 yes, I can transfer abook.db, but is format compatible? Jul 17 10:55:52 I can scp it. Jul 17 10:55:58 lol, after reboot it shows more battery than before Jul 17 10:56:05 I guess db format is incompatible. Jul 17 10:56:19 export contacts to .vdb ? Jul 17 10:56:37 or .vcard Jul 17 10:56:45 dont remember what is the standard Jul 17 10:57:06 hm, vdb keeps all contacts in one file? Jul 17 10:57:35 what i meant, is there an option in phonebook to export contacts to file? Jul 17 10:58:15 woo-haaah! i have tilde mapped to blue-z and pipe to blue-c Jul 17 10:58:32 now i can type shell commands like a pro! Jul 17 11:00:13 yeah, you can export contacts as .vcard Jul 17 11:00:29 it should be one file Jul 17 11:00:38 but you can also zip it or cat it into one file Jul 17 11:00:47 and import anywhere Jul 17 11:00:51 even on adroid etc Jul 17 11:01:06 unless n810 doesn't know about .vcard Jul 17 11:01:15 then just parse it to the format it knows Jul 17 11:01:22 or look for vcard importer Jul 17 11:03:05 btw. you should try bluetooth method first though Jul 17 11:04:42 thank you Jul 17 11:04:42 though i cant see to massively send all contacts via bt Jul 17 11:06:45 that's called sync Jul 17 11:07:31 when i see 'sync' i think that it will delete some data Jul 17 11:08:29 send data, receive data, sync Jul 17 11:08:48 are the tree options to chose from, in "Sync" Jul 17 11:08:54 under settings Jul 17 11:09:16 three* Jul 17 11:09:17 where is this sync option? Jul 17 11:09:23 in settings Jul 17 11:09:33 contacts->settings? Jul 17 11:09:38 no Jul 17 11:09:45 unintuitive! Jul 17 11:10:16 why? how are calendar entries related to contacts? Jul 17 11:10:35 how are calendar entries related to settings? Jul 17 11:11:02 via "Sync" Jul 17 11:11:12 :-P Jul 17 11:11:15 settings relate to app idelogically, not to the data Jul 17 11:11:16 :P Jul 17 11:11:30 that's why it's unintuitive Jul 17 11:11:41 and he clearly meant contacts Jul 17 11:11:47 not calendar entries Jul 17 11:11:47 good enough for me Jul 17 11:11:53 send patches to Nokia! Jul 17 11:13:07 and sorry, there is no option to only sync birthdays of all contacts between 30 and 40 years old Jul 17 11:13:41 bah Jul 17 11:14:01 i never enter birthdays on my phone Jul 17 11:14:17 though i often enter street names in username field Jul 17 11:14:27 ok, we will create a special version for you that doesn't sync birthdays then Jul 17 11:16:30 btw you also could use default backup app to create a set of tarballs that also contain contacts in vcard format Jul 17 11:16:48 it wont be any use for n810 though Jul 17 11:16:50 right? Jul 17 11:16:59 I never tried it Jul 17 11:18:38 it's probably easy enough to extract the plain vcard files from the tarball, to import them on 90% of existing PDA-alike devices Jul 17 11:19:01