**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 14 02:59:59 2014
Aug 14 12:04:34 <zGrr> moin :)
Aug 14 12:08:20 <APic> Hi.
Aug 14 12:08:25 <APic> ☺
Aug 14 12:28:29 <DocScrutinizer51> moinmoin
Aug 14 13:17:14 <honestly> moin
Aug 14 13:30:06 <drathir> mornin...
Aug 14 13:30:22 <bencoh> mreow
Aug 14 14:15:37 <Ashley`> mew! ;3
Aug 14 15:26:47 <honestly> Ashley`: kitty?
Aug 14 15:29:16 <Ashley`> ^^
Aug 14 15:29:50 <honestly> :P
Aug 14 16:33:32 <kerio> :3
Aug 14 16:33:38 <APic> Gesundheit.
Aug 14 16:48:22 <honestly> my n900 is now sucking 700mA out of my anker charger battery (:
Aug 14 16:48:57 <DocScrutinizer51> fine!
Aug 14 16:51:29 <kerio> gg
Aug 14 16:51:34 <kerio> can it provide 700mA?
Aug 14 16:51:53 <kerio> unless it's smart, it's not going to complain about overamperage
Aug 14 16:51:55 <kerio> this kills the charger
Aug 14 16:51:57 <honestly> it's rated for 3A
Aug 14 16:52:00 <kerio> oh
Aug 14 16:52:05 <kerio> why the hell are you only drawing 700ma
Aug 14 16:52:48 <DocScrutinizer51> huh????
Aug 14 16:52:54 <honestly> because that's the normal current a n900 will draw when it's charging while the phone is on
Aug 14 16:52:58 <kerio> :(
Aug 14 16:53:17 <DocScrutinizer51> nfc what u r ylkng bout
Aug 14 16:53:34 <kerio> a battery
Aug 14 16:53:43 <kerio> and a charger that uses said battery
Aug 14 16:53:54 <DocScrutinizer51> that's nonsesnetlk
Aug 14 16:53:58 <kerio> honestly: did you force the wallcharger mode on the n900
Aug 14 16:53:59 <joga> a usb charger?
Aug 14 16:54:03 <honestly> kerio: no
Aug 14 16:54:04 <kerio> or does it actually follow the standard?
Aug 14 16:54:06 <kerio> neat
Aug 14 16:54:32 <bencoh> wait, there is a "wallcharger mode" ?
Aug 14 16:54:40 <joga> I've one of these http://www.ianker.com/support-c1-g228.html for some reason my n900 won't charge over the 2A port but my gf's does I think...
Aug 14 16:54:41 <DocScrutinizer51> omg
Aug 14 16:54:49 <joga> but mine's been a bit weird anyway
Aug 14 16:55:01 <kerio> bencoh: when d+ and d- are shorted, the n900 knows that i can draw up to 1A
Aug 14 16:55:05 <kerio> as opposed to usb's 500mA
Aug 14 16:55:18 <bencoh> oh, that "mode"
Aug 14 16:55:22 <DocScrutinizer51> after ENUM
Aug 14 16:55:27 <kerio> right
Aug 14 16:55:40 <DocScrutinizer51> pre ENUM only 100
Aug 14 16:56:14 <DocScrutinizer51> which is what kills deadbatrecover from USB PC
Aug 14 16:57:29 <kerio> *flatbatrecover
Aug 14 16:57:40 <kerio> deadbat is more serious than flatbat
Aug 14 16:58:07 <kerio> flat bat: http://www.bats.org.uk/data/images/publications_and_resources_images/bct_flat_bat.gif
Aug 14 16:58:12 <DocScrutinizer51> yah
Aug 14 16:58:19 <kerio> dead bat: ew why the fuck would you want to see a dead bat
Aug 14 16:59:03 <DocScrutinizer51> flat bats are rare
Aug 14 16:59:21 <DocScrutinizer51> needs a bat flttener
Aug 14 16:59:34 <DocScrutinizer51> aka car
Aug 14 16:59:52 <DocScrutinizer51> aka dimension transformer
Aug 14 16:59:59 <kerio> this kills the bat
Aug 14 17:00:10 <DocScrutinizer51> transforms 3d animals to 2d
Aug 14 17:00:18 <kerio> a projection!
Aug 14 17:00:30 <DocScrutinizer51> mercator
Aug 14 17:00:58 <kerio> why are you so cheeky?
Aug 14 17:01:01 <kerio> you're usually so serious
Aug 14 17:01:52 <DocScrutinizer51> must be southern europe holidays silliness
Aug 14 17:02:20 <DocScrutinizer51> seenlots of flying living bats here. Love them a lot
Aug 14 17:03:21 <DocScrutinizer51> and I started this lil comedy by 'deadbatrecover' which is already silly, since:
Aug 14 17:03:35 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo flatbatrecover
Aug 14 17:03:54 <DocScrutinizer51> dafaq!!
Aug 14 17:04:18 <DocScrutinizer51> :-/
Aug 14 17:04:20 <kerio> ~flatbatrecover
Aug 14 17:04:23 <kerio> oh
Aug 14 17:04:25 <kerio> ~flatbatrecovery
Aug 14 17:04:33 <kerio> D:
Aug 14 17:04:37 <kerio> ~flatbat
Aug 14 17:04:46 <kerio> oh fuck you infobot
Aug 14 17:04:49 <kerio> you're not even here
Aug 14 17:04:54 <honestly> lol
Aug 14 17:05:59 <APic> *shrug*
Aug 14 17:06:08 <DocScrutinizer05> will change soon
Aug 14 17:06:51 <APic> B)
Aug 14 17:06:56 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Aug 14 17:07:08 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo flatbatrecover
Aug 14 17:07:09 <infobot> error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required)
Aug 14 17:07:10 <infobot> flatbatrecover -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon Jul 26 02:02:58 2010 (1480 days); last modified at Fri Aug  1 20:48:27 2014 by DocScrutinizer05!~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 87 times, last by kerio, 4d 9h 50m 54s ago.
Aug 14 17:07:16 <APic> DocScrutinizer05 can fix everything ­ even reanimate the Dead.
Aug 14 17:07:33 <kerio> praise the doc
Aug 14 17:12:07 <kerio> APic: PRAISE HIM
Aug 14 17:12:22 * APic falls on his Knees and praises epic DocScrutinizer05.
Aug 14 17:12:49 <DocScrutinizer51> damnstop that!
Aug 14 17:13:29 <kerio> aww
Aug 14 17:13:31 <kerio> he's so...
Aug 14 17:13:33 <kerio> modest
Aug 14 17:13:44 <kerio> (and by that i mean slow and fat)
Aug 14 17:16:05 <APic> ☺
Aug 14 17:17:03 <kerio> i wonder if there's a way to make irssi stop sending data until you're mentioned
Aug 14 17:18:46 <APic> Probably not hard to script.
Aug 14 17:18:57 <APic> Not that hard to Patch the C Core either prolly…
Aug 14 17:19:05 <DocScrutinizer51> irssi? *sending* data?
Aug 14 17:19:37 <DocScrutinizer51> I guess you wanna talk to ShadowJK 
Aug 14 17:19:46 <DocScrutinizer51> anbout netfilters
Aug 14 17:20:25 <APic> B)
Aug 14 17:22:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: either through irssi_proxy or on the terminal itself
Aug 14 17:22:59 <kerio> for your weird-ass workflow
Aug 14 17:23:07 <kerio> where you keep your n900 locked with xchat open
Aug 14 17:25:46 <DocScrutinizer51> meh
Aug 14 17:25:49 <bencoh> actually irssi doesnt send that much
Aug 14 17:26:04 <bencoh> (well, ssh/screen/irssi at least)
Aug 14 17:26:05 <DocScrutinizer51> ZNC and netfilter rule, ask ShadowJK 
Aug 14 17:26:27 <ShadowJK> It's not the data that's the issue, it's the frequency
Aug 14 17:26:35 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Aug 14 17:26:48 <ShadowJK> 1 byte of data every 5 second consumes approximately same amount of power as 10Mbit/s data for 5s
Aug 14 17:26:49 <DocScrutinizer51> the 'kee TX alive' pinga
Aug 14 17:26:56 <bencoh> sure
Aug 14 17:27:16 <bencoh> but you dont need to send keepalives if irssi is at the other end of your ssh ;)
Aug 14 17:27:20 <DocScrutinizer51> the 'keep TX alive' pings
Aug 14 17:27:40 <DocScrutinizer51> check TCP
Aug 14 17:28:04 <bencoh> yeah, default tcp timeout is way higher
Aug 14 17:28:11 <kerio> yeah you definetely want a clean tcp connection
Aug 14 17:28:17 <kerio> does ssl have keepalives?
Aug 14 17:28:32 <DocScrutinizer51> even when UMTS itself doesn't send ACK (which I guess it foes)
Aug 14 17:28:35 <bencoh> you can even put your laptop to sleep and wake it a few hours later and see your ssh session come back to life
Aug 14 17:28:44 <kerio> fair enough
Aug 14 17:28:51 <bencoh> ssh on 2G is fine here at least
Aug 14 17:29:01 <bencoh> (battery-wise ... and user experience wise as well)
Aug 14 17:29:13 <kerio> is there a netfilter way to only do data bursts?
Aug 14 17:29:18 <DocScrutinizer51> 2G is fine
Aug 14 17:29:24 <DocScrutinizer51> 3G is a hog
Aug 14 17:29:29 <kerio> also, can you enable/disable that on screen lock/unlock
Aug 14 17:29:31 <DocScrutinizer51> ask ShadowJK 
Aug 14 17:30:23 <DocScrutinizer51> for each data in, you'll send an ACK or sth on several OSI levels
Aug 14 17:30:50 <DocScrutinizer51> and that single package keeps 3G TX active for10s
Aug 14 17:31:03 <DocScrutinizer51> or 5, or 15
Aug 14 17:31:04 <bencoh> exactly, when you send/receive data :)
Aug 14 17:31:12 <ShadowJK> Just having a TCP connection open doesn't consume any significant amount of power
Aug 14 17:31:24 <bencoh> if ssh has nothing to tell you and you have nothing to tell, everything's fine ;)
Aug 14 17:31:42 <ShadowJK> tcp keepalives default to off almost everywhere
Aug 14 17:32:13 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: I'm talking of ACKs
Aug 14 17:32:30 <bencoh> acks dont cost much, since you're already sending/receiving
Aug 14 17:32:43 <ShadowJK> Well your phone is going to be transmitting whether there are ACKs on IP level or not
Aug 14 17:33:10 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: some nokia phones have a way to disable hspa
Aug 14 17:33:14 <bencoh> (it costs when your link is lossy ... but then you want data to go through :)
Aug 14 17:33:29 <DocScrutinizer51> bencoh: nope
Aug 14 17:33:41 <bencoh> nope what ?
Aug 14 17:34:54 <kerio> nope
Aug 14 17:37:13 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: exactly what I said
Aug 14 17:38:35 <DocScrutinizer51> data in means sending. So to make sending less frequent you bundle your inbound-to-mobile data into bursts on proxy. U use netfilters for that
Aug 14 17:40:13 <DocScrutinizer51> you trigger out of pace flush of buffer and temporary reduction of bundling window to 1s down from 60 when your proxy finds highlights in data
Aug 14 17:41:51 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: wasnt it you who had a netfiler script for that?
Aug 14 17:42:12 <DocScrutinizer51> (without the nifty highlight detecting)
Aug 14 17:42:30 <ShadowJK> yes
Aug 14 17:42:50 <ShadowJK> just iptables -j DROP on the proxy server for a little while
Aug 14 17:44:30 <DocScrutinizer51> iptables, ipchains, netfilters, I wonder how many names this stuff had already
Aug 14 17:45:17 <DocScrutinizer51> DROP?
Aug 14 17:45:24 <kerio> tcp is cool
Aug 14 17:45:28 <kerio> it'll deal with it
Aug 14 17:45:40 <DocScrutinizer51> wouldn"t that lose data?
Aug 14 17:45:45 <kerio> of course not
Aug 14 17:46:05 <kerio> REJECT would close connections
Aug 14 17:46:07 <kerio> DROP is silent
Aug 14 17:46:12 <kerio> packets get dropped
Aug 14 17:46:22 <kerio> which means "rate too high, try again more slowly plz"
Aug 14 17:46:53 <DocScrutinizer51> which is sth freenode prolly won5 do, eh?
Aug 14 17:47:57 <kerio> it's how tcp *works*
Aug 14 17:48:01 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, I'm 40m from atlantic ocean here, shouldn't worry aout TCP flooding
Aug 14 17:48:16 <kerio> yeah if there's some flooding just throw it in the ocean
Aug 14 17:48:23 <kerio> seriously tho
Aug 14 17:48:36 <kerio> dropping packets when the rate's too high is how tcp adjusts the transfer rate
Aug 14 17:48:50 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah
Aug 14 17:49:05 <kerio> there MUST be no adverse effects to dropping packets for a bit
Aug 14 17:49:16 <DocScrutinizer51> until you TX stack gets a timeout on missing ACK
Aug 14 17:49:21 <kerio> well ok
Aug 14 17:50:07 <ShadowJK> TCP tp Mars wouldn't work because of the latency, but maybe a tenth of the way to mars
Aug 14 17:51:13 <DocScrutinizer51> qhat we're talking here? max distance to mars (roundabout 15min)?
Aug 14 17:51:39 <ShadowJK> Oh I see, 5 minutes by default, reconfigurable thgouh RFC 5482.. though that one is newer than N900 :)
Aug 14 17:51:45 <DocScrutinizer51> or minimum which is maybed 1min
Aug 14 17:52:20 <kerio> there's that big of a difference? :O
Aug 14 17:52:34 <DocScrutinizer51> pff sure
Aug 14 17:52:34 <kerio> oh of course there is
Aug 14 17:52:35 <kerio> i'm dumb
Aug 14 17:52:44 <kerio> opposite sides of the sun
Aug 14 17:52:49 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Aug 14 17:53:10 <kerio> why can't these fucking dumb planets just rotate around the sun every 24 hours
Aug 14 17:53:23 <DocScrutinizer51> lol
Aug 14 17:53:50 <honestly> why is the power draw going down to under 100mA o.O
Aug 14 17:53:59 <honestly> while it's still charging
Aug 14 17:54:01 <DocScrutinizer51> because that would cause really nasry climate on earth
Aug 14 17:54:28 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly: please ask better questions
Aug 14 17:54:34 <honestly> okay, let me try
Aug 14 17:55:14 <honestly> how much power does the n900 typically use when all peripherals (gps, 3g, etc.) and the screen is turned off?
Aug 14 17:55:20 <kerio> very little
Aug 14 17:55:24 <ShadowJK> 6,A
Aug 14 17:55:28 <ShadowJK> 4-6mA
Aug 14 17:56:06 <honestly> well, the phone modem is on
Aug 14 17:56:15 <ShadowJK> USB connected counts as peripheral activated in some circumstances too :)
Aug 14 17:56:34 <DocScrutinizer51> indeed
Aug 14 17:56:53 <DocScrutinizer51> eating up to 80mA
Aug 14 17:56:55 <ShadowJK> modem in standby doesn't add too much
Aug 14 17:57:12 <DocScrutinizer51> some 15mA usually
Aug 14 17:57:29 <DocScrutinizer51> err more like 10
Aug 14 17:57:54 <DocScrutinizer51> ~power
Aug 14 17:57:54 <infobot> i guess power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
Aug 14 17:59:29 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly: also please check what means CCCV charging
Aug 14 18:00:43 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly: and keep in mind that USB has 5V which get *transformed* into 3.x to 4.2V for battery charging
Aug 14 18:01:16 <honestly> ah
Aug 14 18:02:58 <DocScrutinizer51> with an efficiency of 80 to 95percent
Aug 14 18:03:20 <APic> =)
Aug 14 18:04:47 <DocScrutinizer51> and the bq27200 logs are on battery level
Aug 14 18:04:54 <DocScrutinizer51> not USB
Aug 14 18:13:58 * DocScrutinizer51 notes that there's no easily found wiki page about charging and bme (hw level) and bq24150
Aug 14 18:16:46 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wiki cccv
Aug 14 18:16:48 <infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=cccv&go=Go
Aug 14 18:18:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: why can't we
Aug 14 18:18:17 <kerio> like, as a species
Aug 14 18:18:21 <kerio> make batteries that charge at 5V
Aug 14 18:18:57 <ShadowJK> It's chemistry, not numerology
Aug 14 18:19:12 <kerio> i didn't ask you!
Aug 14 18:19:17 <DocScrutinizer51> exactly
Aug 14 18:19:42 <DocScrutinizer51> actually electrochemical volyage ?
Aug 14 18:20:20 <DocScrutinizer51> why would you want batteries that charge at 5V?
Aug 14 18:20:23 <ShadowJK> even if it existed, it wouldn't take long before someone maade electronics run at 4V/8V instead of 5V
Aug 14 18:20:54 <ShadowJK> So you could LDO comfortably on the battery voltage ;D
Aug 14 18:20:54 <DocScrutinizer51> that would be pretty annoying since then USB voltage doesn't suffuce
Aug 14 18:22:15 <DocScrutinizer51> for now a simple buck converter suffices to charge LiIon from USB
Aug 14 18:23:02 <DocScrutinizer51> with LiXy Voltage higher than 4.2V you need a buck-boost
Aug 14 18:23:53 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-P
Aug 14 18:24:11 <APic> 8☺
Aug 14 18:24:18 <APic> What is Channel Mode +C in FreeNode?
Aug 14 18:24:29 <APic> Ah gosh, i'll look it up on teh™ Intarwebs
Aug 14 18:25:08 <APic> CTCP-Block, ok
Aug 14 18:25:15 <DocScrutinizer51> actually voltage is so marmelade, it's just about Wh/kg resp /volume
Aug 14 18:25:18 <APic> So my Smiley came through in yellow?
Aug 14 18:26:02 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Aug 14 18:28:08 <DocScrutinizer51> but anybody abusing channel colors too much is begging for a kick
Aug 14 18:28:19 <Humpelstilzchen> why?
Aug 14 18:28:50 <DocScrutinizer51> because it alreadybeen a discussion to enable colors at all
Aug 14 18:29:26 <APic> lol
Aug 14 18:29:28 <DocScrutinizer51> and your wird char for example doesn't make it to my client
Aug 14 18:29:32 <APic> ic
Aug 14 18:30:38 <DocScrutinizer51> colors are kinda deprecated on irc
Aug 14 18:31:11 <DocScrutinizer51> I hardly could see that smiley
Aug 14 18:31:20 <APic> Oh
Aug 14 18:31:33 <APic> You did not mean the Smiley by „weird Char”.
Aug 14 18:31:50 <DocScrutinizer51> no, I meant Humpelstilzchen 
Aug 14 18:32:18 <DocScrutinizer51> I guess that been a faied 'color'
Aug 14 18:32:26 <DocScrutinizer51> failed even
Aug 14 18:33:03 <APic> It was Blink.
Aug 14 18:33:20 <DocScrutinizer51> whatever... gibberish here
Aug 14 18:35:06 <DocScrutinizer51> fsk wikipedia which doesn't know CCCV either
Aug 14 18:35:52 <DocScrutinizer51> but FSFE is Farmacias sin Fronteras Espania
Aug 14 18:36:07 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-P
Aug 14 18:40:15 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly: you want to rea about LiIon battery charging using ConstantCurrent ConstantVoltage charging concept
Aug 14 18:40:25 <DocScrutinizer51> read*
Aug 14 18:50:54 <honestly> I don't, I just want to know whether my n900 is performing inside safe parameters :P
Aug 14 18:51:18 <DocScrutinizer51> it always does
Aug 14 18:51:56 <DocScrutinizer51> otherwise Nokia wouldn't dare to sell it
Aug 14 18:51:56 <APic> =]
Aug 14 18:51:59 <APic> True.
Aug 14 18:52:19 <DocScrutinizer51> unless you overclock it
Aug 14 18:52:27 <honestly> sometimes things break
Aug 14 18:52:34 <DocScrutinizer51> no
Aug 14 18:52:37 <honestly> such as the usb receptacle (:
Aug 14 18:52:45 <DocScrutinizer51> actually not this way
Aug 14 18:54:09 <DocScrutinizer51> and it doesn't make sense to come to this palce and ask about random numbers to verify that nothing is broken
Aug 14 18:54:51 <DocScrutinizer51> as long as you don't face obvious trouble, just assume all is fine
Aug 14 22:22:31 <useretail> hello, is anyone here alive?
Aug 14 22:23:12 <kerio> nope
Aug 14 22:23:14 <kerio> we're all dead
Aug 14 22:23:41 <kerio> waiting on the rapture
Aug 14 22:23:50 <useretail> how to play mp3 file instead of microphone output during call?
Aug 14 22:24:04 <kerio> mh, have you tried just playing it?
Aug 14 22:24:14 <kerio> apart for that, i'm not entirely sure
Aug 14 22:24:25 <kerio> there's ways to record the audio call, so there's probably a way to also redirect it
Aug 14 22:25:18 <useretail> no, i haven't tried it, but i don't think person will hear it
Aug 14 22:27:05 <useretail> is there a way to detect the moment when someone picks up the phone during call?
Aug 14 22:27:41 <useretail> i mean does n900 detects that somehow?
Aug 15 00:58:07 <Bambi_BOFH> I'm looking to start playing around with maemo but I see http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php has 'gone away'. Should i be mirroring all the development related files in case they are pulled from their various hosting repositories or can i assume they will be available in to the future?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 15 03:00:00 2014