**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 03 03:00:00 2014
Oct 03 06:30:51 <kerio> q
Oct 03 08:21:35 <brolin_empey> Months ago (already at least 1 year ago?), someone in this channel mentioned a model of pocket computer with converged telephony capability that ran the Android OS and had an integrated hardware keyboard.  It was not a myTouch but I cannot even remember the brand name.
Oct 03 08:23:09 <brolin_empey> And no, it was not the Nokia N900 with NITdroid. :-P  It shipped with the Android OS pre-installed.
Oct 03 08:27:15 <brolin_empey> Trying to find something that far back in my log is difficult with Quassel.  I should use an IRC client that uses plain text log files but switching IRC clients again is never my top-priority task.
Oct 03 08:34:25 <Luke-Jr> brolin_empey: pdadb might help
Oct 03 08:51:35 <bencoh> brolin_empey: some motorola maybe
Oct 03 08:51:46 <bencoh> I think there are still a few with hwkbd
Oct 03 13:34:49 <stryngs> Does anyone know why python-scapy only install for python 2.5 on maemo?
Oct 03 13:39:23 <Wikiwide> Maybe, python 2.6 is fine, too. Python 2.7 is a bit different. But that's from reading about scapy-python2.7 troubles on Windows...
Oct 03 13:40:48 <stryngs> Um...  That still doesnt say why?
Oct 03 13:48:37 <kerio> stryngs: because that's what python-scapy installs the library for
Oct 03 13:48:55 <stryngs> right, so its because it was built that way, scapy...
Oct 03 13:48:59 <stryngs> it was built for 2.5
Oct 03 13:49:10 <stryngs> i see usr/share/python-support/python-scapy.public line 1 says 2.5
Oct 03 13:50:28 <stryngs> kerio: So is it a safe bet to assume anything in the repo for python is pretty much for 2.5?
Oct 03 13:50:39 <kerio> yes
Oct 03 13:50:49 <stryngs> Heh, why not 2.7? 
Oct 03 13:50:59 <stryngs> And why is it not listed as such under the control file?
Oct 03 14:06:22 <sixwheeledbeast> brolin_empey: have you tried the search option on mg.pov.lt ?
Oct 03 16:11:46 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast: No.  I expected someone to mention a channel log on the Web;  I did not mention such a log because I badly needed to relocate myself to my bed.
Oct 03 16:33:21 <brolin_empey> Luke-Jr: bencoh: sixwheeledbeast: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:QWERTY_mobile_phones&oldid=604823474 may help too.
Oct 03 18:34:34 <FatPhil> \o hands up who thinks the internet connection manager is pants, in particular if it's remembered lots of access points 
Oct 03 18:43:50 <sixwheeledbeast> yep but it's closed
Oct 03 18:59:43 <freemangordon> FatPhil: Hi man, where you've been? Are you ok?
Oct 03 19:03:21 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: is that iapd?
Oct 03 19:04:29 <sixwheeledbeast> icd2?
Oct 03 19:04:55 <freemangordon> oh, yeah
Oct 03 19:05:14 <freemangordon> or rather - "oh,  maybe" :)
Oct 03 22:24:29 <FatPhil> freemangordon: It's been a crazy year. Job situation went from ups to lows to ups again.
Oct 03 22:24:58 <FatPhil> Now I'm working for a company with 3 full time developers, so the pressure is higher than ever
Oct 03 22:30:02 <freemangordon> FatPhil: glad you're employed again. Honestly, I have no idea how will I react (and feel) if I lose my job.
Oct 03 22:32:04 <FatPhil> Had some good beer-tourism trips while I was unemployed, but that can't last for ever
Oct 03 22:33:49 <freemangordon> FatPhil: just gimme enough money and I can try to make it last forever :)
Oct 03 22:34:05 <freemangordon> or at least while I am alive
Oct 03 22:34:16 <ShadowJK> What kind of stuff do you guys do for a living?
Oct 03 22:34:43 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: well, I am principal SW engineer
Oct 03 22:35:09 <freemangordon> that means that I do everything - from goding to architecting, to QA, etc
Oct 03 22:35:16 <freemangordon> *coding
Oct 03 22:36:11 <FatPhil> Had a month (february, I *think*) where pretty much every night I was in a different hostel. I really got disoriented. Several mornings I woke up, saw the ceiling, and thought "where the fuck am I?!?!"
Oct 03 22:37:08 <FatPhil> Now back working for an open source project again, as a paid job, which is about perfect when it comes to me.
Oct 03 22:37:50 <ShadowJK> Speaking of beer-tourism, I want to get my hands on Stallhagen 1843. A few years ago, divers off of the coast of Aaland discovered a shipwreck laden with hundreds of bottles of champagne, and a few bottles of beer
Oct 03 22:38:59 <ShadowJK> Those beer bottles were distributed to laboratories for analysis, and now they believe they've recreated it :-)
Oct 03 22:39:18 <FatPhil> Stallhagen have made a beer from the yeast sample, yes
Oct 03 22:39:27 <ShadowJK> Well
Oct 03 22:40:04 <ShadowJK> They found that bacteria played just as big a role as yeast
Oct 03 22:40:37 <ShadowJK> And that hops was not used for bitter and not for aroma
Oct 03 22:41:25 <ShadowJK> The yeasts present were very diverse, suggesting spontaneous wild yeast fermentation :)
Oct 03 22:42:31 <ShadowJK> I dunno, but it sounds like the reccreated beer is actually brewed in belgium, with a controlled wild yeast mix and bacteria strains, and sold under Stallhagen brand?
Oct 03 22:42:45 <FatPhil> I've not seen it on sale
Oct 03 22:42:50 <ShadowJK> Yes
Oct 03 22:43:38 <FatPhil> A friend visited me from Finland just today -and brouhgt a Stallhagen beer. Alas it was just their strong lager.
Oct 03 22:43:47 <ShadowJK> On their website they only say that it's currently available on Viking (A passenger/cruise ship company)
Oct 03 22:43:55 <FatPhil> I know viking line
Oct 03 22:44:20 <ShadowJK> It wouldn't surprise me if it was actually brewed in Belgium
Oct 03 22:44:55 <FatPhil> I never use them to go to Finland as the times of their boats are bollocks. However, if that's true, I'll hit a viking line boat next time I travel
Oct 03 22:45:28 <FatPhil> By "Belgium", you men "Proef"?
Oct 03 22:46:01 <ShadowJK> When I spoke to Stallhagen's brewmaster last year, he was apalled at the "boom" of sours, saying his fellow brewers were risking contaminating their plants "forever"
Oct 03 22:46:30 <ShadowJK> So, it wouldn't surprise me if he would refuse to use bacteria :)
Oct 03 22:47:29 <FatPhil> All of the sours are just "chuck in a packet of Brett"
Oct 03 22:48:15 <ShadowJK> Do I mean lambic?
Oct 03 22:48:57 <FatPhil> lambic is a sour with a blend of yeasts including brett, but also some lactobacillus and other flora
Oct 03 22:49:33 <ShadowJK> Yeah I think he was very averse of letting lactobacillus anywhere near his stuff
Oct 03 22:49:38 <FatPhil> sorry #maemo, /me's a beer nerd
Oct 03 22:50:21 <ShadowJK> But mind, though I had never heard of it, Stallhagen had apparently had a big contamination incident months prior to that
Oct 03 22:50:23 <FatPhil> With modern closed fermentation vessels, there's little risk, as they're steam-cleaned, and nothing carries from bew to brew.
Oct 03 22:51:24 <FatPhil> which is the opposite of how it works in traditional lambic breweries, such as Cantillon, who depend on the flora living in their building
Oct 03 22:51:45 <freemangordon> ~topic
Oct 03 22:52:06 <freemangordon> ~infobot: topic is beer
Oct 03 22:52:18 <freemangordon> ~ping
Oct 03 22:52:18 <infobot> ~pong
Oct 03 22:52:21 * FatPhil loves "wild" ales where the sourness comes from the terroir of the individual breweries, and sneers upon those who just "chuck in a Bret cube"
Oct 03 22:52:51 <ShadowJK> Well :)
Oct 03 22:53:05 <FatPhil> Anyway, if you hate the connection manager, as I do. This is what I wrote yesterday:
Oct 03 22:53:37 <FatPhil> WlanClear at http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/
Oct 03 22:54:00 <ShadowJK> Since Chinook, which was the first maemo I used, I've liked the connection manager. It works better than any windows, android, or jolla device I currently own. :-)
Oct 03 22:54:24 <FatPhil> You would not believ how slow the connections manager is when you have about 60 APs
Oct 03 22:54:26 <freemangordon> FatPhil: are you aware that ARM hexrays has leaked?
Oct 03 22:54:54 <FatPhil> freemangordon: not been paying attention to anything low level for a while
Oct 03 22:55:03 <ShadowJK> FatPhil, well from my point of view, I'm happy if it can handle 2 APs... which most other stuff fails at :-(
Oct 03 22:55:15 <freemangordon> well then, AR hexrays is out in the wild
Oct 03 22:55:21 <freemangordon> *ARM
Oct 03 22:55:40 <freemangordon> and it is beautiful 
Oct 03 22:55:51 <FatPhil>   good stuff
Oct 03 22:56:14 <ShadowJK> the irc app on jolla has frustrating feature where it tears down connection and reconnects if I move from AP1 range to AP2 range
Oct 03 22:56:53 <ShadowJK> my xchat setup on N900 (and N810) seamlessly roams between APs, and mobile interwebs :D
Oct 03 22:59:06 <ShadowJK> Dunno if Linux Desktop if fixed now, but back in 2009 when I obtained N900, trivial things like static IP was impossible through network manager
Oct 03 22:59:41 <FatPhil> there were many flaws with the n900. Least bad is where I place it.
Oct 03 23:00:03 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: well, on ubuntu (12.04 and 14.04) those work pretty much ok
Oct 03 23:00:14 <FatPhil> I have enough spares to last me for a decade. I doubt anything better will appear in the next decade
Oct 03 23:00:28 <freemangordon> FatPhil: install cssu-thumb at last, please
Oct 03 23:00:45 <FatPhil> freemangordon: I am obn cssu-thumb
Oct 03 23:00:50 <freemangordon> oh :)
Oct 03 23:01:08 <ShadowJK> I've sometimes left N900 at home
Oct 03 23:01:18 <ShadowJK> But I find myself needing it
Oct 03 23:01:23 <freemangordon> FatPhil: and still not satisfied? 
Oct 03 23:01:24 <FatPhil> last time we talked, probably last yeaer when I was at Samsung, I put it on my primary device. 
Oct 03 23:01:25 <ShadowJK> .. and bringing it with me again
Oct 03 23:01:38 <FatPhil> and it works *great*
Oct 03 23:01:51 <freemangordon> :)
Oct 03 23:01:53 <freemangordon> thanks
Oct 03 23:02:27 <FatPhil> I'm trying to persuade my g/f to convert to it, but she can't even get onto the plain CSSU at the moment. Repo problems
Oct 03 23:03:52 <FatPhil> "I think I'm sorted", she now says
Oct 03 23:04:21 <freemangordon> FatPhil: comeon, bring her here. i will convince her :)
Oct 03 23:04:43 <freemangordon> no, really there is a big diffference
Oct 03 23:05:59 <freemangordon> ~fptf
Oct 03 23:06:00 <infobot> i heard fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
Oct 03 23:06:05 <FatPhil> One *HUGE MOTHERFUCKING NEGATIVE* of whatever I'm runnning now is that it takes about 3 hours for the camera to start after sliding the ens cover.
Oct 03 23:06:10 <FatPhil> +l
Oct 03 23:06:22 <freemangordon> whaaat?
Oct 03 23:06:37 <FatPhil> 3.2.1. opening slider now
Oct 03 23:07:01 <FatPhil> view appears now
Oct 03 23:07:05 <freemangordon> 6 seconds
Oct 03 23:07:20 <freemangordon> (for HD video)
Oct 03 23:07:22 <FatPhil> OK, not three hours, maybe about 15-20s
Oct 03 23:07:27 <FatPhil> still
Oct 03 23:07:45 <freemangordon> swap on uSD?
Oct 03 23:08:40 <FatPhil> swaps says mmcblk0p3, and it's not much used
Oct 03 23:08:40 <ShadowJK> Grabbed my N900, about 5s
Oct 03 23:08:57 <freemangordon> that is about normal
Oct 03 23:09:06 <ShadowJK> I did notice myself that the new camera thing starts slower than the original nokia
Oct 03 23:09:15 <FatPhil> g/f's previous standard nokia image would be 3s.
Oct 03 23:09:17 <freemangordon> my uptime right now is about 5 days
Oct 03 23:09:33 <freemangordon> (a little bit more)
Oct 03 23:09:36 <ShadowJK> 22 days
Oct 03 23:09:59 <freemangordon> but this it my only phone
Oct 03 23:10:11 <FatPhil> this thing, I can go to the bar, get another beer, queue for a piss, pass out, get back to my table, go to the bar and ask "has anyone seen my phone", before the camera wakes up
Oct 03 23:10:49 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: latest cssu-testing or -thumb? 
Oct 03 23:10:57 <ShadowJK> -thumb
Oct 03 23:11:11 <freemangordon> ok
Oct 03 23:11:25 <freemangordon> and what was the stock camera start time?
Oct 03 23:11:30 <FatPhil> while I was at Nokia, anything less than a month was considered unacceptable uptime. (Amongst the kernel team)
Oct 03 23:11:32 <ShadowJK> No idea. :-)
Oct 03 23:11:53 <ShadowJK> FatPhil, I never managed a month with stock kernel
Oct 03 23:12:01 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: see :)
Oct 03 23:12:02 <ShadowJK> The I/O stall bug always hit me before that
Oct 03 23:12:11 <ShadowJK> It still hits me
Oct 03 23:12:17 <ShadowJK> but not as often
Oct 03 23:12:45 <ShadowJK> iirc before previous reboot, I was at around 90 days
Oct 03 23:12:48 <FatPhil> OK, I've got 21.2011.38.38-1Tmaemo9.1+thumb1, flavour: testing here
Oct 03 23:12:56 <freemangordon> FatPhil: sorry, but I don;t think n900 was ever testd as it should be
Oct 03 23:13:02 <freemangordon> yep, the latest
Oct 03 23:13:22 <ShadowJK> freemangordon, I would say stock camera starts up in 2s :-)
Oct 03 23:13:28 <freemangordon> really?
Oct 03 23:13:36 <FatPhil> by design, yes
Oct 03 23:13:58 <freemangordon> hmm, maybe we should spit on nicolai then :)
Oct 03 23:14:11 <FatPhil> In the kernel team some of us did get 90 day uptimes during the "use it as your daily device" testing period
Oct 03 23:14:14 <ShadowJK> Nicocam certainly feels much heavier
Oct 03 23:14:43 <freemangordon> well, it does more things as well
Oct 03 23:14:55 <freemangordon> not that I say that 2x uptime is ok
Oct 03 23:15:49 <ShadowJK> FatPhil, the IO stall thing is very werid
Oct 03 23:15:59 <ShadowJK> Were you guys ever aware of it?
Oct 03 23:16:04 <ShadowJK> or tracking it...
Oct 03 23:16:14 <freemangordon> but here we hit the problem with the lack of manpower
Oct 03 23:16:49 <ShadowJK> Despite nicocam starting slower, I would still rather have N900 for that critical picture taking, than Jolla
Oct 03 23:16:53 <FatPhil> manpower is not the solution to most problems. it's part of the problem in some companies.
Oct 03 23:17:00 <ShadowJK> lol
Oct 03 23:17:01 <ShadowJK> so true
Oct 03 23:17:27 <freemangordon> are you sure ? 
Oct 03 23:17:31 <ShadowJK> Well
Oct 03 23:17:38 <ShadowJK> There's optimal manpower
Oct 03 23:17:55 <FatPhil> optimise to redce deadwood
Oct 03 23:17:56 <ShadowJK> Less is worse, more is worse
Oct 03 23:17:58 <freemangordon> with on y one man chasing all the bugs for the last.. lets say an year?
Oct 03 23:18:17 <freemangordon> really, check on gitorious
Oct 03 23:18:30 <FatPhil> if you inherit a large codebase, all bets are off
Oct 03 23:18:41 <ShadowJK> Last reboot of my N900 was caused by "spurious emmc I/O error"
Oct 03 23:18:48 <ShadowJK> haha, for sure
Oct 03 23:18:48 <FatPhil> which is why simple programs that do one thing well are vital
Oct 03 23:19:10 <freemangordon> here https://gitorious.org/community-ssu
Oct 03 23:19:11 <FatPhil> which is why systemd is the sperm of satan
Oct 03 23:19:39 <ShadowJK> I'm sort of happy I am no longer in software, but then again, I find the same issues in my current $work as well
Oct 03 23:23:26 <FatPhil> pressure in a 3-dev company is as high as it's ever been. Latest target is to do what 2 fortune-500 companies and an Ivy-league university spent 1000-man-years on, and do it better.
Oct 03 23:23:35 <FatPhil> I have 6 weeks.
Oct 03 23:24:00 <FatPhil> so I'm working tomorrow. 
Oct 03 23:24:04 <FatPhil> night all
Oct 03 23:27:46 <sixwheeledbeast> ~slay systemd
Oct 03 23:27:46 * infobot brandishes Excalibur!  "With this sword, I vanquish thee, systemd!"  apt lops off systemd's head.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 04 03:00:00 2014