**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 04 02:59:59 2015 Jun 04 05:25:39 sixwheeledbeast: Yes, I got later version from extras-devel. http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace/ The one in SDK links to maemo5.0 repository - is it normal, or not? Looks like it's normal, just the naming is a tad confusing: Fremantle SDK vs maemo5.0 Jun 04 08:29:34 https://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/log/ i wonder what devices are they targeting Jun 04 08:47:54 https://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem rings a bell ? ;) Jun 04 09:04:13 mkay, i got qemu-user working on a haswell thing; screw distcc, screw musl, all hail paludis Jun 04 09:04:38 tho the glibc patch from easydebian doesn't look promising Jun 04 10:20:27 yeah the patch doesn't work for 2.20 Jun 04 12:47:32 Hello. Jun 04 12:47:47 Can I write Maemo programs in Haskell? Jun 04 12:48:04 yeah if you succeed at compiling ghc Jun 04 12:48:41 Okay, so basically if I compile GHC for ARM, I'm good? Jun 04 12:49:15 roughly (apart from the potentially missing sw deps) Jun 04 12:49:18 JamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits Jun 04 12:49:22 for a particular arm for a particular glibc for a particular float abi Jun 04 12:49:36 Okay. Jun 04 12:49:40 the n900 does neon doesn't it Jun 04 12:49:45 ~scratchbox Jun 04 12:49:45 it does Jun 04 12:49:45 it has been said that scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB Jun 04 12:49:46 it does Jun 04 12:49:51 then just target armhf neon Jun 04 12:49:53 not too hard Jun 04 12:49:54 JamesJRH: ↑ Jun 04 12:50:00 Wizzup: no hf Jun 04 12:50:04 what Jun 04 12:50:05 maemo is softfp Jun 04 12:50:27 well, you can run armhf binaries on the maemo kernel in a chroot at least, afaik, but ACK @ softfp Jun 04 12:50:30 tmyk Jun 04 12:51:26 L29Ah: Cool!!! Jun 04 12:52:16 L29Ah: That could help me in trying to port NixOS to ARM maybe (for the BeagleBone Black, initially). Jun 04 12:52:21 report your results, i wondered about ghc on maemo as well Jun 04 12:52:35 port nixos to openrc plz :] Jun 04 12:53:17 What's that? Jun 04 12:53:18 checking for ghc... no Jun 04 12:53:18 configure: error: GHC is required. Jun 04 12:53:23 trying to build ... ghc. Jun 04 12:53:57 I dont like the sound of it Jun 04 12:54:01 and it's not even funny Jun 04 12:54:15 yeah you need ghc to build ghc Jun 04 12:54:20 because it is written in ghc Jun 04 12:54:43 yeah, but ... not including a way to build a minimal ghc to bootstrap it is silly Jun 04 12:54:57 L29Ah: Okay, that's not something I'd be able to do. I'm a novice. You could ask on the nix-dev mailing list if you want OpenRC support. Jun 04 12:54:59 you can cross-bootstrap it Jun 04 12:55:17 L29Ah: sure, but meh Jun 04 12:55:19 I know practically nothing about init systems. Jun 04 12:55:23 wont work with scratchbox Jun 04 12:56:03 why not? Jun 04 12:56:15 wont work with autobuilder* Jun 04 12:56:15 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/CrossCompilation Jun 04 13:13:55 12:49:18 < Wizzup> JamesJRH: maemo is just debian linux with some added bits ← Sure, but what I'm not so sure about it how to move beyond console applications written in Haskell. What APIs is a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell? Jun 04 13:14:29 anything that works on your device is allowed Jun 04 13:14:43 maemo is dead so you shoudn't matter about such stuff ;) Jun 04 13:14:50 s/matter/worry/ Jun 04 13:14:50 L29Ah meant: maemo is dead so you shoudn't worry about such stuff ;) Jun 04 13:17:14 That's cool what infobot just did, though if it's going to take up an extra line, why not correct the full line in the first place? Jun 04 13:17:54 in my brain or how? Jun 04 13:18:34 JamesJRH: cant do that with irc :) Jun 04 13:21:16 L29Ah: Like rather than me saying ‘s/APIs is/APIs are/’, only for infobot to then go and repeat the whole lot again, I could save a line by just doing it myself straight-off: … What APIs are a ‘Maemo application’ allowed to assume, and how to I interface those from Haskell? Jun 04 13:21:17 JamesJRH: maemo's main GUI framework is hildon, which is heavily based on gtk Jun 04 13:21:24 Okay! Jun 04 13:21:31 qt4 is also available on the platform Jun 04 13:21:54 I see. Is Hildon preferred? Jun 04 13:21:55 (actually hildon is roughly gtk with some specific stuff) Jun 04 13:22:13 hildon is "native", and has a smaller memory footprint Jun 04 13:22:34 I remember now that at some point in the past there was a switch from Qt to Gtk. Jun 04 13:22:40 Okay. Jun 04 13:22:52 but a lot of apps use qt, so you can go for it as well Jun 04 13:22:59 I like Gtk. Jun 04 13:23:27 qt is the main framework for meego/harmattan Jun 04 13:24:36 Though even then, I haven't yet made a GUI application in Haskell in Gtk or anything, so I should probably start with a desktop Gtk application and then see if it'll work for Hildon, or what I need to do to make it work. Jun 04 13:25:28 ah so you actually wanted to say "stfu" Jun 04 13:25:50 What? Jun 04 13:26:43 Oh. To what? Jun 04 13:26:49 To who, sorry? Jun 04 13:26:56 To infobot? Jun 04 13:27:33 I guess so. Jun 04 13:27:48 But I still think it was cool. :-] Jun 04 13:31:28 But I was saying that, if anything, it's actually easier to up-arrow and edit my previous message than to type ‘s/old thing/new thing/’, so I might as well do it myself, if the substitution is preferred, because, say, not everyone understand sed notation. Jun 04 13:31:49 understands* Jun 04 13:32:52 I only do the sed notation to avoid clutter; personally I'd rather edit the line. But then I guess this is just something I don't like about IRC. Jun 04 13:33:57 But there are many things I do like about IRC, otherwise I wouldn't have been using it for years. :-) Jun 04 13:35:13 s/././g Jun 04 13:35:19 ah so you actually wanted to say "stfu" Jun 04 13:35:20 s/././g Jun 04 13:35:24 infobot: come on Jun 04 13:36:48 What are you trying to do? Make it repeat everything? Jun 04 13:40:37 Huh, I've just notice that there's another mistake in that corrected line (“how to I”) that I could have corrected at the same time if I'd have seen it. I hate mistakes. >:-( Jun 04 13:41:03 move to agda Jun 04 13:41:07 noticed* damn'[4~it! Jun 04 13:42:28 I give up. My Internet's being too slow right now and using Irssi over SSH don't deal with bad Internet very well at all. Jun 04 13:42:56 doesn't* Jun 04 13:49:19 My WAN latency is averaging twice as long as normal right now, but with sustained peaks of a few seconds. It's probably just because I'm awake in the day for once, whereas I'm usually nocturnal. Looking at the pings, I can practically see when someone else on the network downloads something for a few seconds. :-/ Jun 04 13:50:46 Well, nearby in the network, that is; this side of wherever the bottleneck is. Jun 04 13:58:10 JamesJRH: might wanna try mosh Jun 04 13:58:51 So, in theory, I should be able to port NixOS to ARM for the Neo900, port Hildon and Dalvik to NixOS, and rewrite my application, Hexiano, in Haskell and Hildon. Jun 04 13:59:24 Sorry, this is following on from a conversation that started in #neo900. Jun 04 13:59:35 With some but not all people here. Jun 04 13:59:42 Hexiano is: https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.gitorious.jamesjrh.isokeys Jun 04 13:59:49 kerio: Yes, I plan to. Jun 04 14:00:13 JamesJRH: anything that brings us away from scratchbox is welcome Jun 04 14:00:31 why do you hate scratchbox? Jun 04 14:00:31 What? Jun 04 14:00:59 I was just told about Scatchbox, and, at a glance, it looks like a good thing. Jun 04 14:01:12 Scratchbox* Jun 04 14:01:12 if would be a good thing if it was even remotely maintained Jun 04 14:01:35 a huge part of what it does is replicate the running environment of the n900 on a computer Jun 04 14:01:44 which is something that we'd get "for free" with nix, right? Jun 04 14:02:09 huh? Jun 04 14:02:23 not entirely true Jun 04 14:02:23 you get this for free everywhere Jun 04 14:02:42 with qemu-user (: Jun 04 14:02:56 and some work Jun 04 14:03:02 *lots of work Jun 04 14:03:02 ("""some""") Jun 04 14:03:12 ;) Jun 04 14:03:16 what work? Jun 04 14:03:21 i don't see no work Jun 04 14:03:26 whereas nix *guarantees* that you'll have the same versions of everything Jun 04 14:03:32 bringing everything together Jun 04 14:04:00 like make a tarball and move it or what? Jun 04 14:07:17 L29Ah: toolchain integration (at the very least) Jun 04 14:07:42 huh? Jun 04 14:08:04 you have a toolchain available in virtually any distro Jun 04 14:08:24 kerio: I don't know how much that applies to architectures though unfortunately. I've met-up with the core Nix developers at the last 2 FOSDEMs and I'm not convinced about the determinism wrt. architectures. Nevertheless, Nicolas Pierron in particular advocates not cross-compiling, but I don't understand why cross-compiling has to be any worse than native. Scatchbox may be the missing piece here. Jun 04 14:08:48 it's not worse Jun 04 14:08:58 I strongly believe it's "better" by the way, but meh :) Jun 04 14:08:58 Scratchbox* Jun 04 14:09:13 I dont understand this "native build" trend Jun 04 14:09:34 JamesJRH: check out http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch.html (; Jun 04 14:09:52 bencoh: Me too, in terms of efficiency on another architecture. Are there other reasons for cross-compiling being better? Jun 04 14:10:02 er, wrong link Jun 04 14:10:03 http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch-pr.html Jun 04 14:10:04 well I do understand that some people are lazy and dont want to mess with the complications of a crossbuild (and a suitable crossbuild system), and that now that they're given powerful devices, they just want to build on it, but ... Jun 04 14:10:08 still, *meh* Jun 04 14:10:25 compiling *on* a n900 is definetely a lot more painful than compiling on a modern pc Jun 04 14:11:09 yeah it's a stopper for modern huge C++ apps Jun 04 14:11:15 compiling on debian/n900 is slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly Jun 04 14:11:26 s/slow/dead slow/ Jun 04 14:11:27 bencoh meant: compiling on debian/n900 is dead slow, but "easy". compiling on maemo/n900 is slow and painful because SDK has never been integrated properly Jun 04 14:13:02 hmm, glibc-2.20 calls uname and looks if it sucks Jun 04 14:13:27 and a gentoo ebuild says the 2.6.32 requirement is due to nptl Jun 04 14:13:35 14:10:03 < L29Ah> http://exherbo.org/docs/multiarch-pr.html ← Hey, yeah! Nix needs to catch-up in this area!!! Again, this could be the missing link. Jun 04 14:13:41 i wonder if everything will break apart if i just remove it Jun 04 14:15:14 removing what ? Jun 04 14:15:21 the check Jun 04 14:15:35 read the patches Jun 04 14:16:04 i've read the url that was posted there, it's no good at worst or does effectively the same at best Jun 04 15:24:17 oh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contected to the main flex cable or something and not soldered? Jun 04 15:24:33 s/contected/contacted/ Jun 04 15:24:34 ecc3g meant: oh weird.. how is the earphone speaker connected on the n900, it looks like it's just touch contacted to the main flex cable or something and not soldered? Jun 04 15:28:20 yeah it's on spring contacts Jun 04 15:28:47 fsck this is probably why my earphone doesnt work anymore Jun 04 15:30:13 "sounds" like a fairly common problem just like the usb port breaking. Jun 04 15:34:05 sounds like a lot easier one Jun 04 15:38:27 true Jun 04 17:05:32 ~pr131 Jun 04 17:05:33 hmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Jun 04 17:43:37 Oksana: Probably not normal, (I would assume it should only be in SDK) but best to ask someone more in the know, fmg or merlin. Jun 04 17:44:46 * sixwheeledbeast looks at the time and realises it's probably 3am in Oksanaland Jun 04 18:03:52 my n900 has a few screws loose. Jun 04 18:32:49 zsh: segmentation fault chroot . /bin/bash Jun 04 18:32:49 fuck yeah no free glibc-2.20 for me Jun 04 18:36:17 2.19 seems like the last one supporting older kernels Jun 05 00:59:53 Anybody knows who panais is? He msg-ed me at 3 at night, asking how to change username (on maemo.org or talk.maemo.org , presumably) Jun 05 01:10:35 Not registered with NickServ. Okay, he visited #neo900 recently... From Cyprus, likely. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 05 02:59:59 2015