**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 20 02:59:58 2015
Jul 20 04:59:28 <bencoh> KotCzarny: https://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format (see X-Maemo-Prestarted)
Jul 20 06:28:02 <KotCzarny> bencoh: what do i change from that file? shall i disable service entirely?
Jul 20 06:28:16 <KotCzarny> or just -prestarted
Jul 20 06:29:19 <KotCzarny> hmm, commenting prestarted stopped it autmatically, nice
Jul 20 06:31:18 <KotCzarny> now,
Jul 20 06:32:30 <KotCzarny> what are possible effects of disabling the prestart? it will only launch a bit longer or mail autochecks are done by it too?
Jul 20 07:02:17 <bencoh> KotCzarny: reraid what doc said
Jul 20 07:03:26 <KotCzarny> bencoh, i do agree that trimming too much is a bad thing, but there are things that i dont use, yet, they might be important to others in some way, is it bad to ask?
Jul 20 07:04:04 <bencoh> I'm talking about what he said regarding modest and alarmd (whatever the spelling)
Jul 20 07:11:41 <KotCzarny> hmm, alarmclient: not found
Jul 20 07:12:01 <KotCzarny> installing
Jul 20 07:13:01 <KotCzarny> [root@Nokia-N900:~]# alarmclient -L|grep modest
Jul 20 07:13:01 <KotCzarny> [root@Nokia-N900:~]#
Jul 20 07:13:30 <KotCzarny> i guess it only puts things on shedule if you have any email accounts with autochecks
Jul 20 07:16:01 <bencoh> probably
Jul 20 07:22:31 <KotCzarny> not adding any contacts to the desktop shaves 5-10M of memory
Jul 20 07:31:23 <KotCzarny> microb settings don't affect browserd settings?
Jul 20 07:32:48 <gr8> hi, the Neo900 sounds awesome and it claims to care about my privacy. But what about radio triangulation? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking This is a major concern for me, in fact I don't use mobile phones for this reason. I guess the very same problem applies to the Neo900? Is it possible to disable the phone antenna and LTE and just use Wifi?
Jul 20 07:33:08 <KotCzarny> gr8: there is #neo900 channel
Jul 20 07:33:13 <gr8> oh ok
Jul 20 07:33:15 <gr8> thx
Jul 20 07:33:22 <KotCzarny> it's very specific question, you know
Jul 20 07:33:37 <gr8> the neo900 website directed me to this channel
Jul 20 07:34:14 <KotCzarny> ahm, in general, if you dont use gsm modem, you can try setting offline mode
Jul 20 07:34:32 <Humpelstilzchen> but that will disable wifi on maemo too
Jul 20 07:34:43 <KotCzarny> does it? [checks]
Jul 20 07:35:03 <KotCzarny> ahm, right, shucks
Jul 20 07:35:24 <bencoh> itt does yeah :)
Jul 20 07:35:42 <bencoh> there might be some dbus command to turn the modem off
Jul 20 07:35:45 <Humpelstilzchen> but there is are tools which can disable only gsm or only wifi
Jul 20 07:35:47 <KotCzarny> on droid 'plane mode' only disables gsm chip
Jul 20 07:36:14 <gr8> really? on Cyanogenmod it also disables Wifi
Jul 20 07:36:28 <KotCzarny> Humpelstilzchen: he asked about neo900, it might be different than n900's dbus commands
Jul 20 07:36:52 <Humpelstilzchen> KotCzarny: not really when we use the same software..
Jul 20 07:37:21 <gr8> yeah I mean if a linux kernel is running on it, it might be possible to use all linux commands, right?
Jul 20 07:37:49 <Humpelstilzchen> probably not all, might have a problem with some newer systemd ones..
Jul 20 07:37:51 <KotCzarny> yes, unless something is stuck into binary blob
Jul 20 07:52:42 <KotCzarny> tmo jewels: gconftool-2 -s -t int /apps/osso/status-area-applet-battery/use_design_capacity 0
Jul 20 07:52:45 <KotCzarny> Above saves lot of frustration with getting completely BS values posing as correct, when battery gauge is not calibrated (at all 0 like, lost calibration data due to battery out of device for too long and dead bupbat).
Jul 20 08:35:59 <KotCzarny> wiki.maemo.org is missing a favicon
Jul 20 08:36:26 <KotCzarny> The requested URL /favicon.ico was not found on this server.
Jul 20 10:00:42 <KotCzarny> l29ah: for your battery troubles, maybe you'll find some tricks there: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1431701
Jul 20 10:12:24 <L29Ah> i don't see how it's relevant
Jul 20 10:12:43 <KotCzarny> has some battery charging magic
Jul 20 10:13:19 <KotCzarny> ie. if you cant get bme to make it work right, you can override it
Jul 20 10:58:01 <R0b0t1> sirs I am loss
Jul 20 10:58:10 <R0b0t1> where find compile repo for maemo?
Jul 20 10:58:20 <KotCzarny> that question doesnt compute
Jul 20 10:58:33 <R0b0t1> KotCzarny: I wish compile maemo
Jul 20 10:58:36 <R0b0t1> for device
Jul 20 10:58:40 <KotCzarny> whole thing?
Jul 20 10:58:48 <R0b0t1> yes, thanks
Jul 20 10:58:50 <R0b0t1> especially kernel
Jul 20 10:59:04 <KotCzarny> parts have sources, some are binary blobs though
Jul 20 10:59:12 <R0b0t1> google found dead links :\
Jul 20 10:59:16 <bencoh> you wont be able to recompile everything
Jul 20 10:59:26 <R0b0t1> which not?
Jul 20 10:59:32 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/
Jul 20 10:59:36 <KotCzarny> here be kernel
Jul 20 10:59:39 <bencoh> and there is no easy process for a scratch build
Jul 20 10:59:49 <bencoh> but anyway, see scratchbox
Jul 20 10:59:50 <KotCzarny> just apt-get install kernel-source in scratchbox
Jul 20 10:59:56 <bencoh> ~sb
Jul 20 10:59:56 <infobot> [scratchbox] a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
Jul 20 11:00:09 <R0b0t1> wait
Jul 20 11:00:13 <R0b0t1> why no crosschain?
Jul 20 11:00:18 <KotCzarny> ask nokia
Jul 20 11:00:28 <R0b0t1> crossdev no?
Jul 20 11:00:30 <R0b0t1> what breaks?
Jul 20 11:00:46 <KotCzarny> you are free to prepare your own build env
Jul 20 11:00:57 <R0b0t1> ok
Jul 20 11:01:08 <bencoh> wont be easy though
Jul 20 11:01:12 <R0b0t1> hoped past experience had found things not to do
Jul 20 11:02:06 <bencoh> there was a gsoc to port maemo to the openembedded build system
Jul 20 11:02:08 <R0b0t1> bencoh: can you be more specific?
Jul 20 11:02:15 <R0b0t1> I see
Jul 20 11:02:24 <KotCzarny> see: http://elinux.org/N900
Jul 20 11:02:28 <KotCzarny> for open/closed parts
Jul 20 11:03:14 <R0b0t1> ah I had seen
Jul 20 11:03:17 <KotCzarny> http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo
Jul 20 11:03:26 <KotCzarny> and this too, though it might be a bit out of date
Jul 20 11:04:15 <Maxdamantus> A recnt kernel is probably relatively easy to compile.
Jul 20 11:04:40 <Maxdamantus> you just need a recent gcc/binutils targeted for ARM.
Jul 20 11:04:41 <R0b0t1> Is armv7a-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-'
Jul 20 11:04:45 <R0b0t1> proper cross prefix?
Jul 20 11:05:00 <KotCzarny> weren't some n900 things dropped from mainline?
Jul 20 11:05:26 <R0b0t1> I will attempt to build system later using that. One thing I could not find is any kind of serial terminal. Is there a debug bridge over usb or similar?
Jul 20 11:05:42 <R0b0t1> or would I need to break out the 1.8V tty pins
Jul 20 11:05:48 <R0b0t1> on my device
Jul 20 11:06:06 <Maxdamantus> I don't think something like that would be necessary.
Jul 20 11:06:26 <Maxdamantus> if you're trying to use a recent kernel, fbcon works fine.
Jul 20 11:06:40 <KotCzarny> https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking
Jul 20 11:07:05 <Maxdamantus> there's probably some USB tty gadget you could use if you want too.
Jul 20 11:07:08 <KotCzarny> also, google for openwrt port for n900, might be what you need
Jul 20 11:07:08 <R0b0t1> Maxdamantus, what do you mean?
Jul 20 11:07:09 <R0b0t1> Oh
Jul 20 11:07:16 <R0b0t1> I will probably need to supply input
Jul 20 11:07:22 <R0b0t1> device does not have on-the-go
Jul 20 11:07:40 <Maxdamantus> gadget is the opposite of OTG
Jul 20 11:07:49 <R0b0t1> yes
Jul 20 11:07:54 <R0b0t1> I have one that would work
Jul 20 11:07:56 <bencoh> KotCzarny: yeah, some stuff broke, some even got dropped
Jul 20 11:08:00 <R0b0t1> would just prefer not to solder :p
Jul 20 11:08:43 <R0b0t1> meh I will put in order for some pogo pins
Jul 20 11:18:08 <R0b0t1> hm ok
Jul 20 11:18:46 <R0b0t1> If I enable OTG on my device (n900) and set console parameter, I should have something that will work if necessary
Jul 20 11:31:08 <R0b0t1> https://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900
Jul 20 11:31:09 <R0b0t1> wooo
Jul 20 11:31:25 <KotCzarny> don't get too excited, it's not 100%
Jul 20 11:38:55 <R0b0t1> what works is sufficient
Jul 20 11:39:30 <KotCzarny> if you wish to use it only as a minicomputer without phone part, sure, it works, you can even have android working
Jul 20 11:39:42 <KotCzarny> natively
Jul 20 11:40:14 <R0b0t1> I wish to use gentoo system as host and virtualize android or maemo
Jul 20 11:40:25 <R0b0t1> Processor supports ARM TrustZone, should be possible
Jul 20 11:43:36 <KotCzarny> but you know n900 only has 256M of ram?
Jul 20 11:47:23 <R0b0t1> yes
Jul 20 11:48:12 <R0b0t1> should've seen how many VMs I got in 2gb
Jul 20 11:48:40 <KotCzarny> vm is not a problem, running fat apps is
Jul 20 11:51:06 <R0b0t1> honestly it is mostly to copy AOSP. I don't use many apps myself, but having a "working" ecosystem already is nice
Jul 20 11:51:22 <R0b0t1> AOSP telephony services*
Jul 20 11:51:38 <KotCzarny> telephone service without any audio?
Jul 20 11:52:00 <R0b0t1> if it works in maemo it will work eventually
Jul 20 12:23:49 <R0b0t1> weird
Jul 20 12:23:55 <R0b0t1> n900 dts got mainlined, yet there's no defconfig
Jul 20 12:25:21 <KotCzarny> make rx51_defconfig
Jul 20 12:25:40 <KotCzarny> read http://elinux.org/N900
Jul 20 12:57:17 <R0b0t1> yeah that doesn't exist
Jul 20 12:57:59 <R0b0t1> huh
Jul 20 14:17:43 <Luke-Jr> R0b0t1: Maemo needs >256M by itself even without virt
Jul 20 14:17:54 <Luke-Jr> and *possible* != code exists
Jul 20 14:18:02 <KotCzarny> luke, it doesnt, i still have some mem free
Jul 20 14:18:08 <KotCzarny> tiny bit, but
Jul 20 14:26:05 <endso> hm..speaking of gentoo on device..I'm surprised no one(s) [with far far more technical understanding than I that is] hasn't done antiX for arm....I think it was mentioned in their own forums once or twice about being open to it..but they don't savvy embedded from what I gather..so it was never done.
Jul 20 14:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> netsplit?
Jul 20 14:51:03 * DocScrutinizer05 kicks the bot
Jul 20 14:51:20 <KotCzarny> looks like timeout
Jul 20 14:51:23 <KotCzarny> not a netsplit
Jul 20 14:51:40 <KotCzarny> ie. some server died
Jul 20 14:51:46 <DocScrutinizer05> *nod*
Jul 20 14:52:03 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, bot is online again
Jul 20 16:26:42 <Ceres> hello! connection is a bit unstable so i may ask this question again later :P(sorry about that!) Where can i find package dependencies that aren't available on any repos?
Jul 20 16:27:23 <L29Ah> ~repos
Jul 20 16:27:24 <infobot> i heard repos is deb http://mirrors.muarf.org/maemo/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./;; deb http://mirrors.muarf.org/maemo/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./
Jul 20 16:27:28 <KotCzarny> ~maemo-repos
Jul 20 16:27:28 <infobot> i heard maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
Jul 20 16:36:08 <Ceres> i should probably add that i'm on OS 2008
Jul 20 16:36:09 <Ceres> i will check the second one now
Jul 20 16:36:11 <Ceres> ok, i have all the diablo ones, and the tabletter servers must be down for a while now
Jul 20 16:36:12 <Ceres> tableteer*
Jul 20 16:36:44 <KotCzarny> yeah, tableteer went down, i have a copy locally on disk i think if you need specific packages
Jul 20 16:37:53 <KotCzarny> 145M    catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com
Jul 20 16:37:54 <KotCzarny> yeah
Jul 20 16:38:08 <Ceres> :D
Jul 20 16:38:18 <KotCzarny> dont know if its complete though
Jul 20 16:38:20 <Ceres> you sound like a life saver
Jul 20 16:38:53 <Ceres> i could make a list
Jul 20 16:39:11 <Ceres> have you considered uploading it somewhere
Jul 20 16:39:13 <L29Ah> Ceres: did you try oscp?
Jul 20 16:39:14 <Ceres> ?
Jul 20 16:39:15 <KotCzarny> if you know some nice and easy file hosting i can upload it wholly
Jul 20 16:40:05 <Ceres> i feel like i will be hated if i ask this but i dont know qhat that is
Jul 20 16:40:25 <KotCzarny> the best media player for n8x0 and n900
Jul 20 16:40:30 <Ceres> (referring to oscp)
Jul 20 16:40:41 <KotCzarny> unless you prefer media libraries, then it isnt
Jul 20 16:41:03 <KotCzarny> but if you prefer dir/file libraries then there is nothing better
Jul 20 16:41:16 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94590
Jul 20 16:42:03 <Ceres> hmmm
Jul 20 16:42:26 <Ceres> the one i can think of off the top of my head is libgcc-something
Jul 20 16:42:53 <Ceres> and some c++ related libs?
Jul 20 16:43:16 <Ceres> i only recently discovered irc so i havent tried installing again
Jul 20 16:44:03 <Ceres> uuuum wetransfer is easy to use
Jul 20 16:44:28 <Ceres> you upload what you want, share the link, and people download it
Jul 20 16:44:42 <Ceres> catch is files are kept onlinw for a week or so
Jul 20 16:44:46 <KotCzarny> checking it
Jul 20 16:47:28 <KotCzarny> shouldnt gcc be in maemo.org repo?
Jul 20 16:47:57 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/g/gcc-3.4/
Jul 20 16:47:59 <KotCzarny> yeah
Jul 20 16:48:02 <stryngs> o0o0o
Jul 20 16:48:04 <stryngs> 3.4?
Jul 20 16:48:10 <stryngs> why so early?
Jul 20 16:48:15 <KotCzarny> stryngs, diablo is old
Jul 20 16:48:18 <stryngs> Ah
Jul 20 16:48:25 <stryngs> didnt pay attention =)
Jul 20 16:48:37 <KotCzarny> ceres: what's your apr config?
Jul 20 16:48:48 <KotCzarny> apt
Jul 20 16:50:01 <KotCzarny> tableteer had some closed binaries with specific licenses, rest was in regular diablo repo
Jul 20 16:50:24 <Ceres> uuuum
Jul 20 16:51:23 <KotCzarny> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free
Jul 20 16:51:36 <KotCzarny> you should have this one for most of the nokia provided stuff
Jul 20 16:51:45 <KotCzarny> erm
Jul 20 16:51:47 <KotCzarny> wrong link
Jul 20 16:53:06 <KotCzarny> hmm
Jul 20 16:53:07 <Ceres> are you asking me to send you my sources? :P
Jul 20 16:55:27 <KotCzarny> how can i check the source repo of the package that is installed on the system?
Jul 20 16:55:42 <KotCzarny> and by source i mean from where it was downloaded
Jul 20 16:56:32 <Ceres> got DC'd, didn't see it if you replied
Jul 20 16:56:32 <Ceres> :P
Jul 20 16:57:40 <KotCzarny> ceres, as a side note, gcc is not meant to be installed on the device, only for sdk. if you want ondevice devel you have to be cautious and add sdk repo
Jul 20 16:58:05 <KotCzarny> so i guess you can safely comment the tableteer repos
Jul 20 16:58:13 <Ceres> ok this is frustrating, i'm getting DC'd all the time
Jul 20 16:58:38 <KotCzarny> use some shell?
Jul 20 16:58:55 <Ceres> if you guys are still here and willing to help i will ask you again when i'm off work!
Jul 20 16:59:14 <KotCzarny> sure, but take a note ^
Jul 20 16:59:16 <Ceres> sorry for this but the internet sucks here -_-
Jul 20 16:59:33 <Ceres> i'm logging all this so it's cool! ^_^
Jul 20 17:00:00 <Ceres> thanks for everything so far! :)
Jul 20 17:00:08 <Ceres> later~!
Jul 20 17:00:12 <KotCzarny> cya
Jul 20 17:08:19 <KotCzarny> hmm, how to translate http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/ into apt entry?
Jul 20 17:08:45 <KotCzarny> it tries to add /dists/ everytime
Jul 20 17:11:00 <KotCzarny> ok, it's for sdk. nvm
Jul 20 17:11:15 <Pali> https://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror
Jul 20 17:12:29 <Pali> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ maemo4.1.2/sdk free non-free
Jul 20 17:12:29 <Pali> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ maemo4.1.2/tools free non-free
Jul 20 17:12:34 <Pali> KotCzarny ^^^
Jul 20 17:13:06 <KotCzarny> pali, thx, but i just realized that repo is for sdk (ie. scratchbox)
Jul 20 17:13:20 <Pali> yes it is sdk & tools repo
Jul 20 17:13:30 <Pali> all repos are on apt-mirror page
Jul 20 17:16:11 <KotCzarny> pali: added to [[Repository]] page
Jul 20 17:57:22 <KotCzarny> hmm, according to http://pinoutsguide.com/CellularPhones-Nokia/nokia_bl-4j_battery_pinout.shtml, bl-5j has a 100kOhm on bsi
Jul 20 18:12:45 <ShadowJK> Sounds approximately right, if I remember correctly
Jul 20 18:12:55 <KotCzarny> someone said 75 recently
Jul 20 18:13:03 <KotCzarny> not that it matters much
Jul 20 19:12:12 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc it's more like 75k
Jul 20 19:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on temperature
Jul 20 19:13:07 <KotCzarny> http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Nokia_BL-5J_battery
Jul 20 19:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I helped Pali to create a table temperature-vs-resistance once
Jul 20 19:13:16 <KotCzarny> another page claiming its 100k
Jul 20 19:13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> so? is it relevant?
Jul 20 19:14:10 <KotCzarny> only if one builds own battery
Jul 20 19:14:29 <KotCzarny> i guess for direct dc input without battery both values would work
Jul 20 19:14:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jul 20 19:15:45 <DocScrutinizer05> 100.1k
Jul 20 19:15:49 <Pali> yes, DocScrutinizer05 provided data for temperature table
Jul 20 19:16:00 <DocScrutinizer05> says my KeySight
Jul 20 19:16:05 <Pali> and then on internet I found exact formula for that
Jul 20 19:16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> on a random battery labeled like it was a BL-5J
Jul 20 19:16:58 <KotCzarny> how much on bp-5l (if you have one)
Jul 20 19:19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> 100.0k on 2nd BL-5J99.9k on 3rd. And sorry what Pali and I did was temperature sensor iin N900, not BSI
Jul 20 19:22:31 <KotCzarny> hmm, i wonder if bme could invalidate capacity for big capacity in l29ah case because of mismatching bsi coded one
Jul 20 19:22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> BP-5L? nope. BP-4L I got
Jul 20 19:23:22 <KotCzarny> bp-5l was in 770 and n800
Jul 20 19:23:32 <KotCzarny> (also e61/e62/n92)
Jul 20 19:23:38 <KotCzarny> and 9500
Jul 20 19:24:17 <DocScrutinizer05> BP-4L: 120,2k
Jul 20 19:24:46 <DocScrutinizer05> (N810)
Jul 20 19:24:51 <KotCzarny> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9789
Jul 20 19:24:52 <KotCzarny> hmm
Jul 20 19:24:53 <povbot> 04Bug 9789: Mugen battery: HAL not getting correct capacity and current states
Jul 20 19:25:29 <KotCzarny> 2.4Ah in mugen is 105k
Jul 20 19:25:58 <DocScrutinizer05> BME isn't made to detect different batteries by BSI
Jul 20 19:26:08 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Jul 20 19:27:10 <KotCzarny> read that bug report, it's quite interesting
Jul 20 19:27:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it *is* capable to detect a so called "test battery", and possibly even a second breed maybe called debug
Jul 20 19:27:56 <DocScrutinizer05> KotCzarny: I'm absolutely sure I've already read every interesting maemo bug :-)
Jul 20 19:28:01 <KotCzarny> :)
Jul 20 19:31:11 <DocScrutinizer05> KotCzarny: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9789#c4
Jul 20 19:31:14 <povbot> 04Bug 9789: Mugen battery: HAL not getting correct capacity and current states
Jul 20 19:31:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~joerg
Jul 20 19:31:24 <infobot> hmm... joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org
Jul 20 19:31:48 <KotCzarny> i didnt get that far yet
Jul 20 19:31:56 <KotCzarny> reading few things at the same time
Jul 20 22:19:52 <Luke-Jr> why does the power kernel not support ACLs+xattrs for ext4? :/
Jul 20 22:23:02 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jul 20 23:43:17 <Luke-Jr> meh, no ext4-without-journal anyway
Jul 21 00:24:04 <Luke-Jr> KotCzarny: fwiw, there is currently no reasonable way to do Gentoo/N900 due to all stage3s using glibc 2.20 which requires too-new kernel :<
Jul 21 01:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> nasty
Jul 21 01:57:26 <Luke-Jr> crap
Jul 21 01:57:30 <Luke-Jr> I accidentally rm /dev/*
Jul 21 01:57:36 <Luke-Jr> will a reboot restore it?
Jul 21 02:49:06 <ZetaR> Luke-Jr: Should do it. See 'man udev' for more info on /dev
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 21 02:59:58 2015