**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 26 02:59:59 2015
Sep 26 03:06:40 <Maxdamantus> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/297a533b3e621be520d44d8baf3bb72ce15c4110
Sep 26 03:06:46 * Maxdamantus wonders if that's in the power kernel.
Sep 26 03:25:10 <DocScrutinizer05> well, for sure it's not in the stock maemo kernel
Sep 26 03:26:37 <Maxdamantus> Does the stock maemo even come with that module?
Sep 26 03:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Sep 26 06:42:31 <Maxdamantus> It looks like that "registers" entry in sysfs is special to the power kernel, can't find it anywhere in the mainline history.
Sep 26 06:50:03 * Maxdamantus wonders if there's a working git repository for it.
Sep 26 06:51:37 <Maxdamantus> Ah, maybe vcs.maemo.org works but is just really slow.
Sep 26 06:54:52 <KotCzarny> um, while you are writing c program, it shouldn't require any additional bash tools
Sep 26 06:55:16 <KotCzarny> and you should implement that second part that is helping calibration too
Sep 26 06:55:53 <KotCzarny> maybe even calibration mode which would beep the audio device and poweroff
Sep 26 06:56:26 <KotCzarny> (i was going to write it myself, but no time atm :/
Sep 26 06:56:53 <Maxdamantus> I've already written it. It doesn't depend on anything.
Sep 26 06:57:08 <Maxdamantus> just needs a C compiler and a libc.
Sep 26 06:57:14 <KotCzarny> does it have loop mode too?
Sep 26 06:57:18 <Maxdamantus> Yes.
Sep 26 06:57:22 <KotCzarny> good
Sep 26 06:57:25 <Maxdamantus> https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/ada1412f3ef6ae1c440e
Sep 26 06:58:34 <KotCzarny> make it configurable (RS shouldnt be constant)
Sep 26 06:58:58 <Maxdamantus> Under what circumstances would that change?
Sep 26 06:59:23 <KotCzarny> ask doc, but his scripts use 22 for that value for example
Sep 26 06:59:43 <KotCzarny> it's estimation anyway and relies on battery age i think
Sep 26 07:00:19 <Maxdamantus> Can always just modify the program and recompile.
Sep 26 07:00:23 <KotCzarny> also, provide -h/--help and some info what it does
Sep 26 07:00:28 <Maxdamantus> Only takes a second or two on the device.
Sep 26 07:01:01 <KotCzarny> just saying if you ever wanted upload it to extras
Sep 26 15:29:14 <Wizzup> Pali: didn't make to compile your v4.2-rc2-n900 yet, it errors somewhere when compiling some (default) crypto stuff
Sep 26 15:29:18 <Wizzup> I'll try it again a bit later
Sep 26 16:17:44 <abramelin> Hello
Sep 26 16:18:00 <abramelin> Can anyone help me with something to do with the n900?
Sep 26 16:18:18 <KotCzarny> amazing, samba source is 20M packed, how come file server to need so much code
Sep 26 16:18:21 <KotCzarny> ~ask
Sep 26 16:18:22 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Sep 26 16:18:29 <KotCzarny> abramelin: ^
Sep 26 16:18:54 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: ask microsoft, they wrote the protocol and all the stupid extensions
Sep 26 16:20:24 <abramelin> Ok. I have an N900 again since a long time and I've reflashed it to the latest image, but a few things still seem outdated compared to last time. For example, in the expose thing, I can't switch to windows with q, w, e, etc. anymore, I have to press the touch screen
Sep 26 16:20:35 <abramelin> Also, I can't put my device in standby anymore
Sep 26 16:21:00 <abramelin> Are these really symptoms of an outdated system, or are they separate issues?
Sep 26 16:21:58 <KotCzarny> newer new one can use keys to switch windows
Sep 26 16:22:05 <KotCzarny> maybe it was some extension
Sep 26 16:22:18 <KotCzarny> also, did you remember installing cssu before/
Sep 26 16:22:21 <abramelin> I don't recall installing anything speciaul for that
Sep 26 16:22:22 <abramelin> Oh
Sep 26 16:22:30 <abramelin> That might be it
Sep 26 16:22:32 <KotCzarny> ~cssu
Sep 26 16:22:33 <infobot> i guess cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
Sep 26 16:24:18 <abramelin> Yeah, thanks
Sep 26 16:27:46 <Vajb> u can select program with q,w and e if u have programs running
Sep 26 16:28:12 <Vajb> like when u press top left and see thumbnails of running programs
Sep 26 16:29:31 <Vajb> and when having keyb visible u can use arrows to switch between desktops
Sep 26 16:30:12 <abramelin> > Your system has broken packages; check the log
Sep 26 16:30:21 <abramelin> Does anyone know how to fix this? I couldn't find any logs in /var/logs
Sep 26 16:35:08 <Vajb> try apt to see what errors it gives, but don't do autoremove or dist upgrade
Sep 26 16:40:41 <abramelin> Thanks
Sep 26 16:43:28 <KotCzarny> ~maemo-repos
Sep 26 16:43:29 <infobot> maemo-repos is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
Sep 26 16:43:47 <KotCzarny> this also can help you in case of fresh install
Sep 26 17:08:14 <freemangordon> Pali: https://github.com/community-ssu/rtcom-accounts-plugin-jabber/commits/master :)
Sep 26 17:08:24 <freemangordon> I hope to finish it tomorrow
Sep 26 17:09:38 <freemangordon> one small function left, but I have to stop for today
Sep 26 17:15:38 <Pali> great
Sep 26 18:06:54 <M4rtinK> nice :)
Sep 26 18:14:52 <esaym153> heh, building perl-5.20.3 in scratchbox :)
Sep 26 18:15:44 <esaym153> lets see how n810 likes modern perl with Moose and SDK
Sep 26 18:15:56 <KotCzarny> dont run out of space
Sep 26 18:16:07 <esaym153> SDL*
Sep 26 18:16:58 <esaym153> KotCzarny: ./perl-build -j6 --test 5.20.3  /media/mmc2/perl-5.20.3   :)
Sep 26 18:17:18 <esaym153> going to find out how modern perl with Moose and SDL can run
Sep 26 18:17:30 <esaym153> don't know if SDL from cpan will even compile on this though :/
Sep 26 18:17:47 <esaym153> SDLx::App, ect
Sep 26 18:18:49 <esaym153> and even if it does, it might quickly suck up my entire 40mb of free ram
Sep 26 18:25:09 <KotCzarny> esaym153: mkdir /media/mmc2/opt; ln -s /media/mmc2/opt
Sep 26 18:25:19 <KotCzarny> then build everyting with --prefix=/opt
Sep 26 18:25:20 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 26 18:25:43 <KotCzarny> just watch out not to replace things required to boot
Sep 26 18:26:02 <KotCzarny> i meant: ln -s /media/mmc2/opt /opt
Sep 26 18:26:22 <KotCzarny> more clean/portable/manageable
Sep 26 18:26:36 <KotCzarny> also, building on poor n8x0 ?
Sep 26 18:30:09 <KotCzarny> mm, samba 2.2.12 works nicely on n900 as MyDocs server
Sep 26 18:30:25 <KotCzarny> 1.6M binary, ~2M mem used
Sep 26 18:31:32 <KotCzarny> newest samba requires some weird python modules just to build
Sep 26 18:38:37 <KotCzarny> ok, lets see if i can get anything with smb2 working
Sep 26 18:44:51 <esaym153> KotCzarny: not builing on n810, using the scratchbox sdk, building on a different machine, will then copy over
Sep 26 18:44:59 <KotCzarny> Samba 3.6 added basic support for SMB2.0. ummm-kay
Sep 26 18:46:35 <vectis> I have perl-5.22.0 on my N810. Built it on the device itself
Sep 26 19:09:00 <KotCzarny> hmm, nokia n9 for ~20usd
Sep 26 19:09:07 <KotCzarny> to buy, or not to buy
Sep 26 19:44:20 <esaym153> vectis: what you using perl to do?
Sep 26 19:44:34 <vectis> bitflu
Sep 26 19:47:20 <KotCzarny> sounds like some kind of sickness
Sep 26 19:47:31 <vectis> lol :)
Sep 26 19:48:10 <KotCzarny> 'doctor, i have a case of coldram'
Sep 26 19:52:43 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: cheap!  @ N9
Sep 26 19:53:01 <Luke-Jr> vectis: I have KDE built on the N810 itself!
Sep 26 19:53:04 <KotCzarny> wizzup, question is, is it worth getting at all?
Sep 26 19:53:12 <Sicelo> ^/sb end
Sep 26 19:53:19 <KotCzarny> luke: logs or it didnt happen
Sep 26 19:53:28 <Luke-Jr> KotCzarny: what logs?
Sep 26 19:53:36 <KotCzarny> logs of build process
Sep 26 19:53:48 <Luke-Jr> Portage deletes those immediately
Sep 26 19:53:57 <KotCzarny> (but im just kidding)
Sep 26 19:54:07 <Luke-Jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n8x0/packages/
Sep 26 19:54:25 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: good q
Sep 26 19:54:34 <Wizzup> if it is 20, then still...very cheap
Sep 26 19:55:02 <KotCzarny> maybe i'll get it for porting oscp to harmattan
Sep 26 19:55:39 <vectis> Luke-Jr: how long did kde take to build?
Sep 26 20:00:33 <KotCzarny> wow, n9 has 1G of ram
Sep 26 20:03:21 <KotCzarny> ugh
Sep 26 20:03:25 <KotCzarny> non-removable battery?
Sep 26 20:03:27 <KotCzarny> wtf?
Sep 26 20:04:59 <Maxdamantus> Yay, finally recalibrated, though it says 1574 mAh, which I suspect is a bit over.
Sep 26 20:05:21 <KotCzarny> maxd: 12.5% max one cycle change for lmd
Sep 26 20:05:32 <KotCzarny> it will stabilize in few cycles
Sep 26 20:06:12 <Maxdamantus> It seems to have gone way over that.
Sep 26 20:06:13 <Luke-Jr> vectis: I forget, it was years ago.
Sep 26 20:06:28 <Maxdamantus> it was something like 1086 just before.
Sep 26 20:08:16 <KotCzarny> maxd, still, discharge, recharge, if it stays ~1500 and CI=0, then you have good battery
Sep 26 20:08:32 <Maxdamantus> 1088 → 1574
Sep 26 20:08:47 <Maxdamantus> so where does the 12.5% apply?
Sep 26 20:09:02 <KotCzarny> it applies in the opposite way
Sep 26 20:09:07 <Maxdamantus> do you mean you have to wait until it changes no more than that before you can assume it's reliable?
Sep 26 20:09:50 <vectis> Luke-Jr: I tried building qt-4.8.5 recently and the tablet shutdown after 8 days
Sep 26 20:10:11 <KotCzarny> maxd: yes, just wait few cycles
Sep 26 20:12:05 <KotCzarny> heh, bought that n9
Sep 26 20:13:12 <KotCzarny> i just hope that battery isnt glued to the phone
Sep 26 20:16:07 <Luke-Jr> vectis: qtwebkit is a problem
Sep 26 20:16:20 <Luke-Jr> vectis: I had to do the final link on a real PC with an emulator
Sep 26 20:17:34 <vectis> Luke-Jr: hmm, I might just try that.
Sep 26 20:28:06 <KotCzarny> now i'll need to hunt 770 and n950
Sep 26 20:28:13 <KotCzarny> and maybe n810
Sep 26 20:28:45 <vectis> Luke-Jr: would both setups have to be identical? ie, the same versions of ssl etc?
Sep 26 20:29:03 <Maxdamantus> You'd probably just use the same root.
Sep 26 20:29:05 <Luke-Jr> vectis: dunno, I just rsync'd the entire N810 system and ran it in qemu
Sep 26 20:29:20 <Luke-Jr> (qemu-system)
Sep 26 20:29:25 <Maxdamantus> You wouldn't even need to rsync, just sshfs and build with qemu-user.
Sep 26 20:31:05 <Maxdamantus> it's like Plan 9's concept of cpu servers.
Sep 26 20:33:35 <vectis> I didn't realise you could emulate the n810 in qemu, only scratchbox I thought (which is qemu based of course)
Sep 26 20:34:01 <kerio> you don't even need to emulate the compiler
Sep 26 20:34:08 <Maxdamantus> It's just ARM.
Sep 26 20:34:08 <kerio> although it could be simpler
Sep 26 20:34:38 <Maxdamantus> You don't generally need to emulate other hardware-specific things when building software.
Sep 26 20:35:02 <Maxdamantus> Theoretically, you shouldn't even need to emulate the CPU, but people have been stupid and made "cross-compiling" a special, difficult thing.
Sep 26 20:35:26 <Maxdamantus> Though you can, as kerio suggested, kind of easily swap in a native C compiler, at least.
Sep 26 20:35:38 <Maxdamantus> if you're using qemu user.
Sep 26 20:35:41 <KotCzarny> well, some make recipes do build some helpers that are used when compiling
Sep 26 20:36:09 <kerio> yea but you only need to qemu-user those
Sep 26 20:36:20 <KotCzarny> and thats what sb does
Sep 26 20:38:48 <vectis> Thanks for the info guys :)
Sep 26 20:40:24 <KotCzarny> drat. smbd-3.6.25 is 8.5M
Sep 26 20:40:49 * Maxdamantus got nix to build itself and git and a bunch of other things for N900/Maemo.
Sep 26 20:41:06 <Maxdamantus> the main difficulty was downgrading glibc, because Maemo's kernel is too old.
Sep 26 20:42:11 <KotCzarny> one positive side of old glibc is that things are smaller a bit
Sep 26 20:44:05 <Maxdamantus> I don't think that's a positive, unless it's significantly smaller.
Sep 26 20:44:38 <Maxdamantus> It's a library that should be shared by pretty much every process.
Sep 26 20:51:52 * Maxdamantus wants a system that uses content-addressed code sharing.
Sep 26 20:52:23 <Maxdamantus> so the sharing is just an optimisation from the fact that multiple programs happen to execute the same code.
Sep 26 20:53:21 <Maxdamantus> and you should be able to compile multiple programs with different source trees and have them share code that was coincidentally compiled to the same thing.
Sep 26 20:55:57 <kerio> that's what ccache does, really
Sep 26 20:56:09 <kerio> it works at the object level
Sep 26 20:56:57 <Maxdamantus> But that doesn't have anything to do with shared libraries does it?
Sep 26 21:01:23 <Maxdamantus> The point with what I'm talking about is it should be a runtime optimisation.
Sep 26 21:02:22 <Maxdamantus> and because it's content-addressing code, it shouldn't have to give up other optimisations that can't be done when conforming to ABIs.
Sep 26 21:03:27 <Maxdamantus> (again, runtime optimisations, not compile-time)
Sep 26 21:03:46 <Maxdamantus> Current C compilers are just horribly slow because of what they do.
Sep 26 21:04:23 <Maxdamantus> convert each source file to an object file, then at some point link and hope that they can fit together.
Sep 26 21:09:24 <Maxdamantus> Technology sucks.
Sep 26 21:10:33 <Maxdamantus> Biology has already made crazy "brain" things that noone understands but which seem to far surpass computers in computational power per unit volume.
Sep 26 21:17:12 <Luke-Jr> vectis: you don't need to emulate the N900, just the ARM CPU
Sep 26 21:17:26 <Luke-Jr> vectis: chroot + qemu-system
Sep 26 21:17:48 <Maxdamantus> Luke-Jr: that seems like a weird combination. Do you mean qemu-user?
Sep 26 21:17:53 <Luke-Jr> oh, yes, sorry
Sep 26 21:19:47 <Maxdamantus> and if you can't be bothered setting up binfmt, proot instead of chroot.
Sep 26 21:19:54 <Maxdamantus> (or are not privileged to)
Sep 26 21:34:13 <Tekk_> Is there an MMS application that properly handles group chats?
Sep 26 21:34:46 <Tekk_> FMMS is capable of doing multicast, but it doesn't actually keep the information so you can't reply to the group, for example
Sep 26 21:34:51 <Tekk_> unless you manually re-add everyone
Sep 26 21:41:38 <esaym153> ugh, why the heck is mmc1 and 2 mounted with noexec? How do I stop that, or remount it so it isn't?
Sep 26 21:43:41 <Maxdamantus> Maybe `mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1`
Sep 26 21:44:50 <Luke-Jr> Tekk_: I didn't even know SMS/MMS supported groups
Sep 26 21:45:21 <esaym153> Maxdamantus: I think I found it: http://www.vinc17.org/maemo/index.en.html
Sep 26 21:46:44 <Maxdamantus> Ah, Maemo 4 or something.
Sep 26 21:47:10 <Maxdamantus> That remount thing will probably also work (each time you use it)
Sep 26 21:48:21 <Maxdamantus> Oh, if the issue is partly FAT, maybe not.
Sep 26 21:48:42 <Maxdamantus> if you're using FAT, you probably have other issues too.
Sep 26 21:49:46 <Tekk_> hm
Sep 26 21:50:12 <Tekk_> Luke-Jr: actually I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it seems like other mobile OSes seem to have some sort of group chat functionality
Sep 26 21:50:15 <Tekk_> from what I've seen at least
Sep 26 22:10:12 <DocScrutinizer05> group chat for SMS/MMS? that's a brilliant function, prolly invented and implemented on their subsidized phones by the carriers. SMS has no multicast, IOW answering to a chat with a group of 200 users means you're sending 200 SMS or MMS (maybe -1 for yourself). Now *I* pay 19 cent per SMS, a lot more for MMS
Sep 26 22:10:36 <Tekk_> DocScrutinizer05: interesting
Sep 26 22:11:13 * Wizzup has free sms in .eu
Sep 26 22:11:13 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, and particularly interesting:
Sep 26 22:11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~200*0.19
Sep 26 22:11:21 <infobot> 38
Sep 26 22:12:11 <Tekk_> Well they tend to not be for large groups, to be fair :p
Sep 26 22:16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: yes, "free"
Sep 26 22:16:45 <Wizzup> as free as internet packets
Sep 26 22:16:53 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly? who donated that generous gift to you
Sep 26 22:17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> you either pay with your money or with your privacy, no matter what. I don't know of a single *free* service for sending SMS
Sep 26 22:18:14 <Wizzup> oh, sure, it costs.
Sep 26 22:18:20 <Wizzup> it's just 'unlimited' for very little money
Sep 26 22:18:24 <Wizzup> and: tmobile
Sep 26 22:18:32 <DocScrutinizer05> usually you get "200 FREE sms for only 19.99 per month" or sth like that
Sep 26 22:19:14 <Wizzup> no, it's unlimited, just like my 3g (64kb/s 'unlimited')
Sep 26 22:20:12 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and bs like "group SMS app" are made to lure you into those offers
Sep 26 22:20:38 <Wizzup> never saw that
Sep 26 22:21:07 <Maxdamantus> so 20 GiB a month.
Sep 26 22:21:15 <Wizzup> I just did not want to worry about extra costs in .eu
Sep 26 22:26:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it a typical offer of our "up-to" times
Sep 26 22:27:24 <DocScrutinizer05> "up to 16 Mbit/s, up to 3 GB/month, up to 300 free SMS per month"  NO LESS than 29 EUR per month
Sep 26 22:30:40 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I can make unlimited calls (in my own country), texts (eu), and internet (eu) for not that much moneh
Sep 26 22:30:43 <DocScrutinizer05> at least O2 changed their standard procedure a few years ago: formerly when the 30 days prepaid data volume*period expired, they switched to charging a 19ct per started minute*MB. Now they actually have the decency to simply stop the data traffic
Sep 26 22:30:43 <Wizzup> money*
Sep 26 22:30:46 <Wizzup> seems like a decent deal for me.
Sep 26 22:31:09 <Wizzup> I prefer to pay for some service and not be bothered by just how much they would ask for a single sms/text.
Sep 26 22:31:17 <Wizzup> Because 19ct is bloody ridiculous
Sep 26 22:31:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, depends on your usage pattern, often it's actually OK
Sep 26 22:31:45 <Maxdamantus> 3 GB is enough to send far more than 300 messages through other protocols.
Sep 26 22:31:56 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: great, now I just need to find a free sms bridge
Sep 26 22:32:09 <Wizzup> Oh wait... it was included in the internet package anyway
Sep 26 22:32:12 <Maxdamantus> Stupid limits based on marketing rather than technical issues.
Sep 26 22:33:42 <Maxdamantus> Commerce sucks.
Sep 26 22:33:54 <Maxdamantus> Everything sucks.
Sep 26 22:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: the providers calculate the prices on average usage. You may (or may not) profit from their offers when you're significantly above average. Unless your provider has additional 'fair use' terms that limit your service nevertheless as soon as you exceed what they think is "average" and thus "fair" usage
Sep 26 22:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> 64kbit/s is pretty much ridiculously useless "internet" access
Sep 26 22:38:46 <Maxdamantus> (that's 20 GiB/mo)
Sep 26 22:38:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it would serve me right for IRC
Sep 26 22:38:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Maxdamantus: so what?
Sep 26 22:39:25 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: even if I pay more, a constant price makes me feel better
Sep 26 22:39:37 <DocScrutinizer05> it only takes two weeks to download the new installation DVD iso?
Sep 26 22:39:38 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: useless? I have my ssh whereever I go :) 
Sep 26 22:39:42 <Wizzup> And I travel in .eu quite a lot
Sep 26 22:40:09 <Wizzup> buying 'internet access' per country or per 'MB' is already more expensive, and still a one time thing
Sep 26 22:40:23 <Wizzup> as an experiment I also have 64kbit/s in my home country, and it's been just fine so far.
Sep 26 22:40:39 <Wizzup> I don't know what you do over 3g - but I just use ssh, and sometimes check some trains.
Sep 26 22:40:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm just saying there's no such thing like "free SMS". They been free (as in beer) when they were invented, back in the 1990s
Sep 26 22:40:54 <Wizzup> sure, for the provider
Sep 26 22:41:02 <Wizzup> I'm not saying it's not all a big scam
Sep 26 22:41:05 <Wizzup> :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 27 02:59:59 2015