**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 02:59:59 2015
Oct 29 04:46:10 <Sicelo> Oksana: yes, i didn't like Mussorgsky's results
Oct 29 04:47:47 <Sicelo> what you can do is tracker-processes -k (kills tracker without removing databases). short while later, do tracker-stats ... this seems to "remind" tracker to index. good luck
Oct 29 04:48:00 <Sicelo> or try non-tracker-based players
Oct 29 05:03:42 * Maxdamantus uses mpd./qmpc.
Oct 29 05:04:48 <Maxdamantus> s/\.//
Oct 29 05:20:19 * Oksana likes tracker... Unfortunately, tracker-stats does not help. Is there a log somewhere? When I open a non-indexed file, Media Player is fine, knows the album and the cover - but the tracker does not remember it...
Oct 29 08:02:24 <bencoh> Maxdamantus: mpd on device ?
Oct 29 08:04:15 <Maxdamantus> Yes.
Oct 29 08:26:26 <zGrr> moin :)
Oct 29 08:32:24 <klopsi-u3>  moin
Oct 29 10:28:43 <Maxdamantus> I saw it on the news this mroin.
Oct 29 10:29:09 <Oksanaa> By the way, tracker selectively avoided all ogg-and-flac files, so it is not random - it's tracker-extractor-vorbis broken by strange files somehow
Oct 29 10:36:13 <Sicelo> Oksanaa: why you like tracker?
Oct 29 10:36:34 <Sicelo> not saying you should not .. but 'everyone' hates it
Oct 29 10:44:23 <Oksanaa> Because it knows everything? I do not want to organize everything myself. Especially when metadata can store lots of info which does not translate well to filepaths
Oct 29 10:50:11 <jonwil> anyone here know anything about wpa_supplicant?
Oct 29 10:51:11 <Sicelo> Oksanaa: :)
Oct 29 10:51:21 <Sicelo> fyi, i'm not in the 'everyone' above
Oct 29 10:51:24 <Maxdamantus> jonwil: what about it?
Oct 29 10:51:37 <Maxdamantus> Whether it works on the N900? Yes.
Oct 29 10:52:04 <jonwil> there was a discussion going on the other day about using it to replace the N900 WiFi subsystem and plugging it into everything
Oct 29 10:52:44 <Maxdamantus> I'd like to do that when I get around to freeing myself from the rest of Maemo.
Oct 29 10:53:39 <jonwil> What are you doing about the tricky stuff like pulseaudio and the cellular bits?
Oct 29 10:54:16 <Maxdamantus> I'm not doing much about it atm .. "when I get around to .."
Oct 29 10:54:33 <jonwil> do you have any plans?
Oct 29 10:55:12 <Maxdamantus> Wait until another N900 appears on trademe so I can experiment with a device other than my main phone.
Oct 29 10:56:19 <jonwil> I cant imagine there are that many N900s floating around in New Zealand...
Oct 29 10:56:26 <Maxdamantus> but I'd ultimately probably try to avoid pulseaudio other than for telephony if that's required.
Oct 29 10:56:59 <Maxdamantus> (and just create a small number of alsa devices for specific things)
Oct 29 10:57:21 <jonwil> pulseaudio is necessary for proper operation of the N900 audio system in all sorts of funky ways
Oct 29 10:57:41 <Maxdamantus> I think there are basically two funky ways.
Oct 29 10:57:56 <Maxdamantus> one is telephony, the other is avoiding blowing the speakers.
Oct 29 10:58:42 <Maxdamantus> I imagine avoiding blowing the speakers is possible through a mixer in alsa.
Oct 29 10:58:59 <Maxdamantus> atm pulseaudio just goes through alsa, as usual.
Oct 29 10:59:20 <jonwil> based on my analysis of the PulseAudio blobs, there are several reasons they exist. One is the speaker protection, one is feeding audio to the cellular modem and then the rest of it is mostly a bunch of sophisticated algorithms to make the audio sound much better
Oct 29 10:59:31 <Maxdamantus> except for telephony, because there are some crazy proprietary plugins for that that don't use alsa.
Oct 29 11:00:29 <Maxdamantus> Speaking of sound, just made a pretty cool-feeling epoxy-based angle connector.
Oct 29 11:00:59 <Maxdamantus> (because you need something like that on the N900)
Oct 29 11:01:24 * Maxdamantus just hopes it isn't destroyed somehow as it cures.
Oct 29 11:01:26 <jonwil> I can tell you that no you will not be able to deal with the speaker protection just by going through alsa
Oct 29 11:01:49 <Maxdamantus> "just by going through alsa"
Oct 29 11:01:57 <Maxdamantus> outputting to the hw device itself, no.
Oct 29 11:02:19 <Maxdamantus> but I imagine you could add a mixer in the middle that would do the sort of capping pulseaudio does.
Oct 29 11:02:31 <Maxdamantus> (just using alsa)
Oct 29 11:03:04 <jonwil> Its not that simple, trust me (says the guy who has been knee deep inside the nokia pulseaudio blobs many times)
Oct 29 11:03:37 <jonwil> Also even if you ignore cellular telephony and speaker protection, feeding audio through the speakers unprocessed would probably sound like crap
Oct 29 11:04:01 <jonwil> since you wont get all the nice stuff the Nokia blobs do to make the audio sound good on such crappy speakers as the N900 has
Oct 29 11:04:27 <Maxdamantus> I wouldn't be particularly concerned about that anyway tbh
Oct 29 11:04:43 <Maxdamantus> I don't really expect decent quality listening to speakers.
Oct 29 11:04:58 <jonwil> Not just speakers but all audio output
Oct 29 11:05:07 <jonwil> including both wired and wireless earphones
Oct 29 11:05:34 <jonwil> As the closest thing this community has to an expert on the nokia pulseaudio blobs, I can say that trying to replace them (and reinvent the wheel) is not worth the effort
Oct 29 11:05:46 <Maxdamantus> Well, they can't really make wireless earphones sound "better".
Oct 29 11:06:00 <Maxdamantus> unless they make assumptions about what "better" is.
Oct 29 11:06:49 <Maxdamantus> you should be able to send the PCM desired by the audio author over Bluetooth.
Oct 29 11:07:20 <jonwil> well I know it does something to bluetooth audio (and to FM radio too) but I dont know what
Oct 29 11:07:22 <Maxdamantus> maybe there are hardware issues regarding the DAC attached to the audio plug.
Oct 29 11:07:37 <Maxdamantus> if it does something to the Bluetooth audio, I'm inclined not to trust it.
Oct 29 11:07:48 <Maxdamantus> at least, not to trust that it does something useful.
Oct 29 11:08:19 <jonwil> as for wpa_supplicant, how would all the UI for it be handled, i.e. the UI for connecting to networks, inputting passwords for password protected networks etc?
Oct 29 11:08:31 <jonwil> Does wpa_supplicant do that or would we need something new for it?
Oct 29 11:08:47 <Maxdamantus> wpa_supplicant usually comes with wpa_gui, which works.
Oct 29 11:08:57 <Maxdamantus> It's a bit fiddly on the N900 though ime
Oct 29 11:09:20 <Maxdamantus> I'd probably just rely on invoking shell scripts.
Oct 29 11:09:48 <Maxdamantus> (fiddly because it's not designed for a touchscreen)
Oct 29 11:19:17 * Maxdamantus is currently listening to music through alsa directly.
Oct 29 11:22:28 <jonwil> getting wpa_supplicant to work is much easier than making all the bits that talk to the existing WiFi subsystem talk to the new WiFi subsystem
Oct 29 11:23:49 <Maxdamantus> I don't think there are really many bits that talk to the "WiFi subsystem"
Oct 29 11:24:19 <Maxdamantus> there's basically just the DNS server that asks to connect if something tries to do a lookup through it and it's not already connected.
Oct 29 11:24:27 <Maxdamantus> otherwise I don't think anything really cares.
Oct 29 11:28:31 <jonwil> you would be surprised, there are a few things that care
Oct 29 11:28:54 <Maxdamantus> Like what?
Oct 29 11:30:17 <jonwil> well for starters it depends if you are replacing icd2 completly or whether you just rip out the WiFi bits and write new ICD2 plugins that use wpa_supplicant to do their work
Oct 29 11:31:15 <jonwil> but there are also a few things tied into the connectivity UI that might get in the way a little
Oct 29 11:31:31 <jonwil> especially if you want/need to keep the GPRS bits unchanged and just deal with the WiFi bits
Oct 29 11:32:54 <Maxdamantus> I'd just avoid using it for connecting to WiFi.
Oct 29 11:33:05 <jonwil> avoid using what? ICD2?
Oct 29 11:33:09 <Maxdamantus> Yes.
Oct 29 11:33:24 <jonwil> its not that simple either, lots of things are tied into ICD2
Oct 29 11:33:33 <Maxdamantus> Like what?
Oct 29 11:33:43 <jonwil> checking now
Oct 29 11:33:52 <Maxdamantus> If they are, they shouldn't be.
Oct 29 11:34:09 <Maxdamantus> It should really only affect configuration things.
Oct 29 11:34:22 <Maxdamantus> eg, the effects of changing networking options in the settings menu.
Oct 29 11:35:24 <jonwil> ok so even if we ignore connui-* (connectivity UI bits), I can see intellisyncd talking to icd2 over dbus
Oct 29 11:35:26 <Maxdamantus> When things trigger the connection dialogue to pop up, that's just the DNS server responding. You avoid that by not using whatever the system that creates /etc/resolv.conf is.
Oct 29 11:35:45 <jonwil> libconic as well
Oct 29 11:35:52 <jonwil> libconninet
Oct 29 11:35:54 <Maxdamantus> (and use a normal DHCP client that creates it, like dhcpcd or dhclient)
Oct 29 11:36:10 <jonwil> libhildonfm uses it for some reason
Oct 29 11:36:22 <jonwil> .libqicdbearer wants it
Oct 29 11:36:30 <jonwil> as does libqtbearer
Oct 29 11:36:36 <jonwil> and libqtnetwork
Oct 29 11:36:41 <jonwil> and libqtsysteminfo
Oct 29 11:36:50 <Maxdamantus> Are you just looking at this through ldd?
Oct 29 11:36:50 <jonwil> oh and wappushd
Oct 29 11:36:55 <Maxdamantus> ldd is transitive.
Oct 29 11:37:00 <jonwil> no, this is stuff talking to it via dbus
Oct 29 11:37:19 <Maxdamantus> "libqtnetwork" is talking to it?
Oct 29 11:37:21 <jonwil> I am grepping a local copy of the N900 root filesystem for anything with the string "com.nokia.icd"
Oct 29 11:37:35 <jonwil> to see anything that might be talking to icd2 via dbus
Oct 29 11:37:50 <jonwil> I think a few of these are just talking to it for status reasons
Oct 29 11:37:58 <jonwil> i.e. they are listening for a "hey, network status has changed
Oct 29 11:38:01 <jonwil> signal
Oct 29 11:38:03 <Maxdamantus> might be talking, or happens to include some particular string in its compiled code?
Oct 29 11:38:11 <Maxdamantus> I think those things are completely different.
Oct 29 11:39:52 <jonwil> these binaries also include the string /com/nokia/icd (for the dbus path) and in most cases the name of one or more methods/signals I know are on that dbus interface
Oct 29 11:40:18 <jonwil> I have been pulling N900 binaries apart for long enough to know how to tell which binaries are talking to which dbus interfaces :)
Oct 29 11:41:02 <jonwil> That said a lot of what talks to ICD2 is foss (e.g. all the QT stuff0 and the few bits that aren't can probably be handled somehow
Oct 29 11:41:52 <Maxdamantus> And since they're libraries, they probably just have methods that applications *CAN* use, but don't necessarily.
Oct 29 11:42:18 <Maxdamantus> eg, that libqtnetwork sounds like an extension of something from QT itself.
Oct 29 11:42:45 <Maxdamantus> so there are probably plain QT programs that naturally use that but not the specific Maemo functionality to do with WiFi.
Oct 29 11:42:48 <jonwil> anyhow, auditing who talks to what in the way of dbus stuff, gconf stuff and other things is what I have been doing and will be doing (see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96108 for the start of that)
Oct 29 11:43:20 <Maxdamantus> Practically, I don't think most of it would affect me.
Oct 29 11:43:29 <jonwil> probably not
Oct 29 11:43:53 <jonwil> but in this case I am thinking from the perspective of replacing the wifi subsystem with wpa_supplicant going forward for maemo in general (i.e. cssu)
Oct 29 11:43:57 <Maxdamantus> I just use a few basic things and hack things away when they prevent me from doing things the way I want to.
Oct 29 11:44:10 <jonwil> since that has all sorts of positives
Oct 29 11:44:48 <Maxdamantus> most of my usage atm is ssh, mpd/qmpc, Opera, camera-ui
Oct 29 13:06:10 <Sicelo> on another note, my 2nd N900 does not "see" headphones/headset/tv-out when connected. however dmesg shows that the associated gpio gets activated
Oct 29 13:09:35 <bencoh> most probably software then
Oct 29 13:12:59 <Sicelo> i think so too. probably should just reflash. lazy though
Oct 29 13:13:16 <Sicelo> where's stryngs with community image?
Oct 29 13:13:54 <Sicelo> let me install dbu-monitor meantime
Oct 29 13:18:36 <Sicelo> bencoh: might actually be hardware :)
Oct 29 13:19:04 <Sicelo> 2nd N900 shows "ButtonPressed" event in dbus, which doesn't show on other N900
Oct 29 13:19:45 <KotCzarny> if you reflash you will know
Oct 29 13:19:49 <KotCzarny> for sure
Oct 29 13:34:39 <Sicelo> not keen on reflash. will test jack properly in the evening, with multimeter
Oct 29 14:57:48 <Sicelo> i
Oct 29 17:26:06 <xes>  /autosetbuffer add core.weechat localvar_set_save_history all
Oct 29 17:28:00 * xes destroys the mouse
Oct 29 17:28:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Oct 29 17:28:38 <KotCzarny> always reselect after pasting to clear the buffer
Oct 29 17:30:27 <xes> yep... or cut the mouse's tail
Oct 29 17:30:36 <xes> ;)
Oct 29 17:30:58 <KotCzarny> some buggers went tailless
Oct 29 17:31:34 <KotCzarny> borgmouses with the red glowing eye
Oct 29 17:31:54 <xes> now there is another one without tail..
Oct 29 17:36:42 <xes> anyway, using at the same time VirtMachines capturing mouse, guake self hiding terminal and weechat with mouse support seems to grant a good level of mess
Oct 29 17:37:16 <KotCzarny> alwaysreselect, always
Oct 29 17:43:37 <klopsi-u3>  never thought of doing that
Oct 29 20:03:49 <Oksanaa> Tracker is quite broken somewhere. I hide all ogg files except one, and it still refuses to index it
Oct 29 20:04:19 <KotCzarny> maybe it doesnt know about ogg format
Oct 29 20:08:06 <Oksanaa> Well, I have to purge-and-install-again ogg-support, then. Media player plays it, but tracker does not index it
Oct 29 20:09:13 <Sicelo> did you have another nick in the past, before Oksanaa?
Oct 29 20:09:52 <Oksanaa> There is tracker-extractor-vorbis, and when called manually, tracker-extract does understand ogg file
Oct 29 20:10:32 <Oksanaa> Oksanaa is mobile. Oksana is desktop. Wikiwide is main nick, rarely used. And there is also Anasko ...
Oct 29 20:11:55 * Oksanaa was probably using Wikiwide in the past
Oct 29 20:12:03 <Sicelo> yea :)
Oct 29 20:14:26 <KotCzarny> oksana, but it refuses one particular ogg file? (ie. there are ogg files that tracker indexes when available?
Oct 29 20:22:44 <Oksanaa> Nay, any ogg file
Oct 29 20:23:20 <KotCzarny> then the problem is narrowed to ogg support in tracker
Oct 29 20:24:00 <Oksanaa> Yes, and it's frustrating. It was working before I tried to mess with media art in Mussorgsky
Oct 29 20:24:25 <KotCzarny> i just disabled tracker
Oct 29 20:24:27 <KotCzarny> and use oscp
Oct 29 20:24:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Oct 29 20:35:41 <Oksanaa> tracker-extract works, so what's the problem with indexing, I do not get...
Oct 29 20:37:33 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=853235&postcount=14
Oct 29 20:37:36 <KotCzarny> related?
Oct 29 20:37:55 <Oksanaa> tracker-update-ontology is nice command to know...
Oct 29 20:38:42 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=902329&postcount=17
Oct 29 20:40:28 <KotCzarny> thread ends at this post, wonder if OP's problem was fixed by it
Oct 29 20:42:26 <Oksanaa> May be related. Hopefully, r4ei"stallig ogg-support will fix it once and not break it again
Oct 29 20:46:53 <Oksanaa> Hooray! It works! Now, how do I convert mp3 into ogg?
Oct 29 20:49:43 <Oksanaa> And, as metadata editor, Mussorgsky is horrendously limited, I think. Audio:ReleaseDate, Audio:TrackNo , for example
Oct 29 20:58:46 <KotCzarny> um
Oct 29 20:58:56 <KotCzarny> converting lossless formats is a bad idea
Oct 29 20:59:53 <KotCzarny> also, you can post to that thread or to notify cssu people (if you use cssu) and/or notify ogg-support people
Oct 29 21:00:15 <KotCzarny> also, my google skills rock
Oct 29 21:02:01 <Oksanaa> ogg-support works... Until I break it by messing with media art
Oct 29 21:03:01 <Oksanaa> will likely post to that thread, yes
Oct 29 21:07:29 <Sicelo> tracker-extract is in N900?
Oct 29 21:08:12 <Sicelo> ah, i see
Oct 29 21:50:48 <Sicelo> freemangordon: i want to reinstall 720p support. however, hitting a snag with Preparing to replace omap3-dsp-hd-codecs 0.3.8-7+0m6 (using omap3-dsp-hd-codecs_0.3.8-7+0m6_armel.deb) ...
Oct 29 21:50:52 <Sicelo> --23:46:49--  https://qa9recEP:*password*@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/rm680/omap3-dsp-hd-codecs_0.3.8-7+0m6_armel.deb
Oct 29 21:54:42 <jonwil> downloads.maemo.nokia.com no longer exists
Oct 29 21:54:45 <kerio> rip
Oct 29 21:54:58 <jonwil> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1467566&postcount=112 has details of a mirror you can use
Oct 29 21:55:08 <jonwil> its what I am using on my N900 right now
Oct 29 21:55:28 <Sicelo> have extracted the files .. and editing the preinstall script .. it's hardcoded for that URL
Oct 29 22:03:52 <Oksana> Hardcoded is no-good...
Oct 29 22:04:02 <freemangordon> Sicelo: just check what preinst or posinst does (dpkg -x)
Oct 29 22:04:10 <freemangordon> and do that by hand
Oct 29 22:08:06 <bencoh> jonwil: muarf.org doesn't host any harmattan mirror
Oct 29 22:08:19 <bencoh> (I really feel stupid for not doing so)
Oct 29 22:08:38 <jonwil> its good that we have a mirror of the fremantle nokia repos
Oct 29 22:08:54 <jonwil> otherwise it would be impossible to reinstall any of the stock packages if you needed to for some reason
Oct 29 22:09:14 <bencoh> it's "good enogh", but I really wish I mirrored harmattan and older Maemos as well
Oct 29 22:10:06 <bencoh> Sicelo: do you have a copy of omap3-dsp-hd-codecs_0.3.8-7+0m6_armel.deb or do you need it?
Oct 29 22:12:14 <Sicelo> i would like to have it. thanks
Oct 29 22:13:07 <Sicelo> i can see omap3-dsp-hd-codecs_0.3.9-6+0m6_armel.deb
Oct 29 22:13:32 <bencoh> wow, my only copy is on my n900... anyway, looks like there's still a copy around on the internet :)
Oct 29 22:13:37 <Sicelo> btw, harmattan mirror exists :) http://maemo-repos.com/apt-mirror/all-mirror/n9mirror/
Oct 29 22:15:38 <Sicelo> bencoh: the 0.3.9 should work on N900?
Oct 29 22:15:52 <bencoh> no idea
Oct 29 22:16:44 <bencoh> might as well ask freemangordon after his night of sleep :)
Oct 29 22:17:32 <Sicelo> will use 0.3.8 to be on safe side. i should be sleeping too, haha
Oct 29 22:19:39 <bencoh> oh, btw ... .debs are attached to tmo post
Oct 29 22:19:48 <bencoh> (?)
Oct 29 22:20:14 <Sicelo> not hd-codecs... always thought so too
Oct 29 22:20:19 <Sicelo> it's just a script
Oct 29 22:20:35 <bencoh> ah, nevermind, right
Oct 29 22:23:40 <Sicelo> part of my problem with videos was .. i had hd-codecs installed, but something restored original libgstdsp.so to original state
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 30 02:59:59 2015