**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 09 02:59:59 2015
Nov 09 03:46:10 <Oksana> On a less serious note: what about EBay Telepathy plugin? https://go.developer.ebay.com/what-ebay-api To exchange messages with other EBay members? And maybe something else, like feedback, dispute, and whatever?
Nov 09 03:48:29 <Oksana> I don't particularly like EBay, so feel free to recommend an alternative website for buying and selling (I am mostly interested in electronics)
Nov 09 04:29:11 <Oksana> Also, are there any text editors which can be synced (via plugin or something) with a website ( like https://www.fictionpress.com/ ), or output ( via plugin or something) a epub or pdf or something file, and are well-suited for writing a book (rather than  "let's turn text upside down, colour it magenta, and insert video of space shuttle launch" office work )
Nov 09 04:37:30 <Oksana> Is somebody interested in porting Maemopad+ from Diablo to Fremantle? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_MaemoPad 
Nov 09 06:15:25 <KotCzarny> oksana: google docs?
Nov 09 08:10:05 <klopsi-u3>  good morning
Nov 09 08:22:38 <Maxdamantus> Though he's gone, supposedly typesetting systems like LaTeX are meant to be good for writing books, since the layout aspects are mostly abstracted away.
Nov 09 08:23:11 <KotCzarny> oksana is a she
Nov 09 08:23:25 <Maxdamantus> or she.
Nov 09 08:23:56 <KotCzarny> most names ending in 'a' are female
Nov 09 08:24:28 <bencoh> err
Nov 09 08:31:39 <Vajb> depends of region one is from.
Nov 09 08:40:41 <Sicelo> good general rules is that there are no girls on irc
Nov 09 08:40:43 <Sicelo> :)
Nov 09 08:41:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 09 08:41:41 <KotCzarny> that's true too
Nov 09 08:45:08 <bencoh> meh
Nov 09 09:22:19 <klopsi-u3>  i only know 3 active ones
Nov 09 09:22:40 <klopsi-u3> no four
Nov 09 10:29:26 * jonwil has run out of things to work on :(
Nov 09 10:30:02 <ceene> jonwil: you could always implement textsecure on yappari
Nov 09 10:30:03 <ceene> :P
Nov 09 10:30:16 <Maxdamantus> Port the Maemo packages to Debian.
Nov 09 10:30:19 <ceene> or help me find out why whatsapp bans people who create new groups
Nov 09 10:30:26 <jonwil> I dont know the first thing about uappari or textsecure or whatsapp :P
Nov 09 10:30:38 <ceene> neither do i!
Nov 09 10:30:45 <ceene> so you could be the first of us to learn
Nov 09 10:30:47 <ceene> :P
Nov 09 10:37:11 <bencoh> isn't there a libpurple/pidgin plugin for textsecure?
Nov 09 10:39:57 <Sicelo> jonwil: possibly silly idea .. Ovi Maps wouldn't be considered practical to RE?
Nov 09 10:40:05 <jonwil> definatly not
Nov 09 10:40:29 <Sicelo> i guessed so. too big :/
Nov 09 10:40:52 <jonwil> Not unless a Gecko engine guru appears who can help understand all the Gecko APIs maps is using
Nov 09 10:41:38 <jonwil> be back soon, need to get to the shops before they shut :)
Nov 09 10:42:41 <bencoh> Sicelo: why would we do that anyway?
Nov 09 10:45:58 <Sicelo> 1) make it point to latest compatible nokia maps. 2) maybe even modify it to us N9/Here maps
Nov 09 10:46:23 <Sicelo> s/us/use/
Nov 09 10:46:23 <infobot> Sicelo meant: 1) make it point to latest compatible nokia maps. 2) maybe even modify it to use N9/Here maps
Nov 09 10:47:11 <bencoh> sure, but why do you want to use Ovi Maps?
Nov 09 10:47:21 <Sicelo> because they work :)
Nov 09 10:47:51 <KotCzarny> adding 'find address' would be nice too
Nov 09 10:47:52 <Sicelo> nokia's maps are way better than google maps for my area
Nov 09 10:48:50 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: what's find address?
Nov 09 10:49:20 <Sicelo> another thing that could be added (once someone knows how to extract info from stored maps) is offline search 
Nov 09 10:49:40 <KotCzarny> enter city name, enter street name, enter building number, map zooms into specified address
Nov 09 10:49:54 <KotCzarny> yes, that's what i meant
Nov 09 10:50:20 <Sicelo> ok. i was surprised because it is there, just not offline
Nov 09 10:50:43 <KotCzarny> same
Nov 09 10:51:12 <KotCzarny> either they keep db online only, or its just a way to keep control
Nov 09 10:51:48 <Sicelo> it seems we have the db offline. but they didn't implement search
Nov 09 10:52:19 <Sicelo> there's a bug report for it. closed as WONTFIX because N900 is an always-connected device .. that was the 'reasoning' :)
Nov 09 10:55:49 <Sicelo> local search is definitely doable, because OM Voiceserver has something like it
Nov 09 10:56:27 <KotCzarny> hehe, sure, always connected, depends on region ;)
Nov 09 10:56:53 <KotCzarny> surely it would make those bad modem chip n900s valuable as navis
Nov 09 11:01:46 <Sicelo> you probably would have an ass of a time trying to get gps lock though. working sim (even without a-gps) helps a lot with lock
Nov 09 11:02:00 <Sicelo> ~rrlp
Nov 09 11:02:01 <infobot> rrlp is, like, the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP
Nov 09 11:02:43 <KotCzarny> i have never had gps lock, even if my modem works fine
Nov 09 11:04:10 <Sicelo> why not?
Nov 09 11:04:26 <KotCzarny> maybe i'm too impatient
Nov 09 11:04:38 <KotCzarny> but i've tried leaving it on for a few minutes
Nov 09 11:07:09 <jonwil> ok, back :)
Nov 09 11:09:12 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: try using location-test-gui
Nov 09 11:10:18 <KotCzarny> which package has it?
Nov 09 11:10:32 <Sicelo> it's standalone i believe.
Nov 09 11:11:54 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/
Nov 09 11:11:55 <KotCzarny> humm
Nov 09 11:12:37 <Sicelo> yes :) nothing depends on it by the way
Nov 09 11:12:51 <KotCzarny> also there http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/non-free/l/location-test-gui/
Nov 09 11:13:00 <KotCzarny> how come apt-get is not finding it
Nov 09 11:13:21 <jonwil> ok, so back to thinking about things I can do next for maemo that are actually possible :P
Nov 09 11:13:25 <KotCzarny> is it sdk repo?
Nov 09 11:13:33 <jonwil> yes its in the SDK repo
Nov 09 11:13:41 <KotCzarny> jonwil: make a tmo thread asking people
Nov 09 11:13:50 <KotCzarny> more read there
Nov 09 11:13:54 <jonwil> last time I did that people suggested stuff that I cant do :)
Nov 09 11:13:59 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: not sdk afaict
Nov 09 11:14:29 <Sicelo> definitely not. confirmed
Nov 09 11:14:46 <KotCzarny> sicelo, i think it is sdk repo
Nov 09 11:14:57 <Sicelo> nop
Nov 09 11:15:51 <Sicelo> $ apt-cache policy location-test-gui
Nov 09 11:16:12 <Sicelo> http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/non-free Packages
Nov 09 11:16:16 <Sicelo> but
Nov 09 11:16:32 <Sicelo> $ apt-cache policy sysklogd
Nov 09 11:16:49 <Sicelo> http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages
Nov 09 11:17:00 <KotCzarny> hmm
Nov 09 11:17:06 <KotCzarny> tools might be sdk repo
Nov 09 11:17:18 <KotCzarny> anyway, 4 satellites in view, 0 in use
Nov 09 11:17:27 <KotCzarny> cellmo: online
Nov 09 11:18:23 <Sicelo> then some patience :) you're indoors? 4 sats is a little too few?
Nov 09 11:18:37 <KotCzarny> put the n900 near the window
Nov 09 11:19:18 <KotCzarny> 5 sats, 0 in use
Nov 09 11:19:25 <KotCzarny> 7
Nov 09 11:20:07 <KotCzarny> also, that repo has sdk-fiasco-gen
Nov 09 11:22:15 <Sicelo> there is a "developer tools" repo *and* "sdk" repo
Nov 09 11:22:43 <KotCzarny> still no lock
Nov 09 11:23:19 <Sicelo> bad device :)
Nov 09 11:23:30 <Sicelo> leave it alone ..
Nov 09 11:23:32 <KotCzarny> 8 sats, 0 in use
Nov 09 11:24:19 <KotCzarny> how long it should take to aquire a lock?
Nov 09 11:25:17 <Sicelo> i seem to have read 12 mins is a good average for any gps. n900 does suck a bit though
Nov 09 11:25:23 <KotCzarny> o.O
Nov 09 11:25:28 <KotCzarny> 12 mins?
Nov 09 11:25:36 <Sicelo> yup
Nov 09 11:25:49 <KotCzarny> who designed that technology?
Nov 09 11:25:56 <KotCzarny> 9 sats
Nov 09 11:26:48 <KotCzarny> 10
Nov 09 11:27:10 <KotCzarny> i've read lock could be acquired with 4 sats
Nov 09 11:27:35 <Maxdamantus> all you need is a compare-and-swap, maybe a futex.
Nov 09 11:27:54 <Sicelo> yes, it can. mine locked with 2 just now (then again, i use my gps a lot now)
Nov 09 11:28:33 <KotCzarny> pn the positive note it can see sats, getting lock is another story tho
Nov 09 11:29:20 <KotCzarny> 11 sats
Nov 09 11:29:43 <KotCzarny> is precise clock a requirement?
Nov 09 11:29:50 <KotCzarny> 12 sats
Nov 09 11:31:27 <Sicelo> no idea. should not be (because gps should actually update your clock)
Nov 09 11:31:52 <Sicelo> except on n900 it doesn't work :)
Nov 09 11:31:57 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 09 11:32:00 <Sicelo> n900 - broken by design
Nov 09 11:32:20 <KotCzarny> nah, only few things broken
Nov 09 11:32:28 <KotCzarny> wow
Nov 09 11:32:34 <KotCzarny> sats 5/11
Nov 09 11:32:42 <Sicelo> locked :)
Nov 09 11:32:43 <KotCzarny> 0/12
Nov 09 11:32:45 <KotCzarny> not anymore
Nov 09 11:32:46 <Sicelo> um
Nov 09 11:32:54 <KotCzarny> but for a brief moment..
Nov 09 11:32:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 09 11:34:21 <Sicelo> lots of noise, i guess
Nov 09 11:34:41 <KotCzarny> im not in city
Nov 09 11:36:40 <jonwil> Interesting, looks like you can get more information from N900 GPS than I thought
Nov 09 11:36:47 <jonwil> like signal strength of various sattelites
Nov 09 11:36:48 <KotCzarny> most sats report 25-35dBHz carrier to noise density ratio
Nov 09 11:37:49 <KotCzarny> locked
Nov 09 11:37:50 <KotCzarny> nice
Nov 09 11:38:02 <KotCzarny> accuracy 20-80m
Nov 09 11:39:56 <Sicelo> jonwil: someone hinted that we can even update the time on N900 via GPS ... but i don't think they explained how. but it sounded like the time info is available (maybe dbus?)
Nov 09 11:42:01 <KotCzarny> if you look at location-test-gps there is time included
Nov 09 11:43:13 <KotCzarny> might be local time tho
Nov 09 11:43:31 <KotCzarny> im happy to know my gps is working, woo
Nov 09 11:43:51 <KotCzarny> 100m accuracy makes it bad for navigation tho
Nov 09 12:13:27 <jonwil> still no closer to finding something useful to do...
Nov 09 12:19:54 <zGrr> moin :)
Nov 09 12:36:22 <ceene> KotCzarny: are you indoors?
Nov 09 12:36:31 <KotCzarny> yup
Nov 09 12:36:36 <ceene> any gps that locks indoors is a pretty damn good gps
Nov 09 12:36:53 <KotCzarny> well, i've put n900 just beside the window
Nov 09 12:37:12 <ceene> in my experience, n900's is a great gps with bad software behind ;)
Nov 09 12:37:18 <KotCzarny> but when i was on the vacations i tried n900 lock outdoors too
Nov 09 12:37:21 <KotCzarny> near the lake
Nov 09 12:37:32 <KotCzarny> it didnt work (or i didnt wait long enough)
Nov 09 12:37:48 <ceene> there's clear-gps-cache
Nov 09 12:38:10 <ceene> it's a closed source executable i found somewhere on tmo
Nov 09 12:38:18 <ceene> and it solves some problems
Nov 09 12:38:47 <ceene> sometimes some bad data gets stuck and gps' cache needs to be flushed
Nov 09 12:39:05 <ceene> if that happens you won't get a lock unless you clear the cache
Nov 09 12:39:24 <ceene> it's not something that happens frequently at all, but may happen
Nov 09 12:40:28 <Jack64> Is there a way to have the clock sync via GPS? It's handy for me cause I don't have a SIM card on my N900
Nov 09 12:41:58 <ceene> there should be
Nov 09 12:42:10 <ceene> the thing is nokia opted not to use gpsd
Nov 09 12:42:49 <ceene> but if there's a way to get gps' datetime you can set time from that
Nov 09 12:43:17 <ceene> if n900 used gpsd, we could use ntp or chronyd as is done on normal linux systems
Nov 09 12:43:47 <Jack64> right
Nov 09 12:44:11 <ceene> jonwil: maybe you want to RE libgps or whatever and make a layer on top of gpsd, so we can use normal things and still use maemo specific api
Nov 09 12:44:18 <Jack64> but if there is a way, is it via a menu item or some binary?
Nov 09 12:46:35 <ceene> i guess it's via some application
Nov 09 12:48:14 <ceene> jonwil: a gpsd driver would be needed to read nmea messages (don't know if some existing one would work as is) and a library that implements maemo's gps api by reading gpsd data, which is exposed via shm or via libgpsd
Nov 09 12:49:33 <jonwil> The best way forward with this would be (IMO) to write something that talks to liblocation (N900 GPS library) and then talks to gpsd as a gpsd plugin
Nov 09 12:50:05 <ceene> i'd rather have gpsd talk directly with the hardware
Nov 09 12:50:12 <ceene> just seems more natural
Nov 09 12:50:37 <jonwil> Its not that simple, the GPS hardware on N900 is quite complex
Nov 09 12:50:52 <jonwil> plus the AGPS stuff (handled by location-proxy) is a pain to deal with too
Nov 09 12:51:15 <ceene> i don't know how gpsd manages agps, if it does
Nov 09 12:52:21 <KotCzarny> for starters even normal gps mode would be nice
Nov 09 12:52:36 <ceene> also, having gpsd talk with the hardware and present the maemo api would allow easy porting of maemo to another hardware
Nov 09 12:53:34 <ceene> your idea would only let us use gpsd on n900, which is a very good thing in itself, but incomplete
Nov 09 12:54:11 <jonwil> On the N900 the GPS hardware is just another interface on the cellular modem and you talk to it in the same way with phonet/isi packets
Nov 09 12:54:19 <jonwil> http://www.cncmods.net/files/pn_location_isi.h is the header file matching the GPS stuff on the N900
Nov 09 12:55:53 <jonwil> There is a low-level library called liblas that builds and sends specific packets
Nov 09 12:58:08 <jonwil> Then we have daemons called location-daemon and location-proxy that use liblas to talk to the chip via liblas
Nov 09 12:59:25 <ceene> too much complexity for so little :s
Nov 09 13:00:15 <jonwil> then liblication talks to location-daemon over dbus
Nov 09 13:00:44 <jonwil> its complex because it has to handle AGPS (location-proxy exists to act as a conduit between AGPS SUPL server and cellular modem)
Nov 09 13:01:25 <jonwil> And it has to provide other info than just GPS coordinates
Nov 09 13:01:41 <jonwil> like strength levels for the satellites it can see
Nov 09 13:02:01 <ceene> but that is solved with nmea messages by any other gps
Nov 09 13:03:01 <jonwil> blame Nokia for making it so complicated
Nov 09 13:03:09 <ceene> yep
Nov 09 13:05:02 <Sicelo> i seem to think jacekowski said time *is* already available on N900 via gps ... but i don't know where you can 'catch' it
Nov 09 13:08:22 <jonwil> Whats better about using GPS for time, cellular network provides time just fine
Nov 09 13:08:30 <jonwil> Or is this for cases where you have no SIM or no service?
Nov 09 13:08:45 <KotCzarny> jonwil, cell time doesnt work for me
Nov 09 13:08:54 <jonwil> why not?
Nov 09 13:08:58 <KotCzarny> dont know
Nov 09 13:09:02 <KotCzarny> it just doesnt work
Nov 09 13:10:19 <jonwil> do you have things set properly under "date and time" in control panel?
Nov 09 13:10:32 <jonwil> i.e. the "update automatically" box ticked?
Nov 09 13:10:36 <jonwil> If you dont, cell time wont work
Nov 09 13:11:14 <Sicelo> or your operator doesn't send it
Nov 09 13:11:19 <KotCzarny> yup
Nov 09 13:11:37 <KotCzarny> default after reflash is automatic network time
Nov 09 13:11:47 <KotCzarny> but it doesnt work for me
Nov 09 13:11:50 <jonwil> there is a dbus command you can run to determine for sure what, if anything, your operator is sending
Nov 09 13:13:03 <KotCzarny> magic phrase?
Nov 09 13:14:26 <jonwil> dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_network_time_info
Nov 09 13:14:32 <jonwil> Run that as root on your N900
Nov 09 13:14:35 <jonwil> and see what it spits out
Nov 09 13:16:02 <KotCzarny> apparently it returns proper values
Nov 09 13:16:27 <jonwil> ok, so go to "control panel" and then "time and date" and what do you see?
Nov 09 13:16:51 <Sicelo> nice
Nov 09 13:17:07 <KotCzarny> right now i have it disabled because i disabled it manually, but after flash/rebooting its ticked
Nov 09 13:17:56 <KotCzarny> how often that automatic setting is called?
Nov 09 13:18:00 <jonwil> if you tick it then close the control panel what exactly happens?
Nov 09 13:18:19 <jonwil> Sometimes I find that setting the time and date manually then ticking the automatic box makes things work
Nov 09 13:18:54 <KotCzarny> nothing because time was already set 
Nov 09 13:20:07 <Sicelo> Jack64: try gpsrecorder for setting time from gps :)
Nov 09 13:20:24 <Sicelo> bug 10163  last comment
Nov 09 13:20:25 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10163 GPS does not automatically set time of device.
Nov 09 13:24:15 <bencoh> is there some hook script when connecting to wifi/gprs?
Nov 09 13:26:05 <Sicelo> guess you'd have to create your own ..listen via dbus?
Nov 09 13:35:20 <jonwil> dont know of any easy way to listen for gps activation via dbus
Nov 09 13:50:25 <Sicelo> by the way, can one boot own distro on the jolla?
Nov 09 14:34:28 <zGrr> On the Jolla tablet?
Nov 09 14:36:54 <Sicelo> that, or the phone...
Nov 09 14:37:05 <KotCzarny> ~wiki jolla
Nov 09 14:37:10 <infobot> At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the company|the smartphone|Jolla (mobile phone)|the tablet|Jolla Tablet|other uses}} {{Use mdy dates|date=July 2012}} {{Infobox company |name = Jolla Oy |logo = |caption = |type = Private |traded_as = |industry = Mobile devices, Consgaumer Electronics/Devices |predecessor = MeeGo team from Nokia |foundation = Pirkkala, Finland ({{Start date|2011|03|29}}) |founder = {{u
Nov 09 14:37:25 <KotCzarny> oh well
Nov 09 14:46:24 <bencoh> Sicelo: they run a modified android kernel
Nov 09 14:46:30 <bencoh> with some libhybris adaptation
Nov 09 14:46:34 <bencoh> afaict
Nov 09 14:47:14 <Sicelo> oh gosh! why?
Nov 09 14:47:34 <bencoh> because qualcomm
Nov 09 14:47:48 <bencoh> and gfx drivers and that kind of stuff
Nov 09 14:48:06 <KotCzarny> o.O
Nov 09 14:48:45 <bencoh> I haven't looked into that for quite some time so maybe I'm wrong and that was for another device/design, but iirc that's how it works
Nov 09 14:49:20 <bencoh> I know for sure that's how sailfishos works for community ports
Nov 09 14:49:25 <bencoh> (on nexus*)
Nov 09 14:57:35 <zGrr> Sicelo:  i guess, it will be much easier with the Jolla Phone, than with Jolla Tablet. I only guess, because i don't know because i still wait for my jolla tablet.
Nov 09 14:59:15 <zGrr> Sicelo:  but then, why would you even want to boot your on distro on jolla phone?
Nov 09 15:01:09 <Sicelo> why would i not? :)
Nov 09 15:01:15 <Sicelo> i can do it on N900
Nov 09 15:02:19 <zGrr> Sicelo:  but n900 is (more or less) open platform. jolla phone is as open as soviet union once was. 
Nov 09 15:03:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 09 15:04:07 <Sicelo> haha. it's a pity though
Nov 09 15:05:18 <zGrr> It should be different with jolla tablet, but then i expect them to completely lock it with uefi crap. 
Nov 09 15:06:16 <Sicelo> N900 won't last forever .. we may love it  & its hw kbd .. but at some point we will be basically forced to move on. looks like we'll go back to feature phones after all
Nov 09 15:06:18 <Sicelo> :)
Nov 09 15:06:33 <zGrr> i have the same problem.
Nov 09 15:06:57 <Jack64> Sicelo: thanks for the gpsrecorder tip, just "apt-got" it :)
Nov 09 15:07:10 <KotCzarny> sicelo: stock up on n900s then!
Nov 09 15:07:12 <Sicelo> yw Jack64.
Nov 09 15:07:15 <KotCzarny> i have 3.5 already
Nov 09 15:07:19 <zGrr> hopefuly dragonbox pyra would come out before my n900 dies. or neo900
Nov 09 15:07:30 <Sicelo> not all of us can afford to stock up :(
Nov 09 15:07:40 <KotCzarny> i bought them as cheap as ~25usd
Nov 09 15:07:41 <Sicelo> i have 2 and already feel blessed
Nov 09 15:07:58 <KotCzarny> one has to watch local classifieds sites tho
Nov 09 15:08:16 <zGrr> KotCzarny:  REALLY? where?
Nov 09 15:08:29 <KotCzarny> zgrr: olx.pl 
Nov 09 15:08:37 <Sicelo> bout my 2nd for USD14 :)
Nov 09 15:08:41 <bencoh> "It should be different with jolla tablet" you mean, with a locked intel plateform? :p
Nov 09 15:09:12 <KotCzarny> bencoh, confusing marketing is the best marketing
Nov 09 15:09:13 <Sicelo> but .. can't see others, so not much luck anymore. besides, even $14 is a lot of money here
Nov 09 15:09:32 <KotCzarny> sicelo, still, its much cheaper than neo900
Nov 09 15:09:47 <Sicelo> of course. i don't even dream of that in wild dreams
Nov 09 15:10:12 <zGrr> bencoh:  since the hardware is fairly open - more or less generic intel it should be easy to install more or less anything you want, right?
Nov 09 15:10:21 <bencoh> dunno
Nov 09 15:10:30 <bencoh> depends on what you want to do with too
Nov 09 15:11:42 <zGrr> bencoh:  but i suppose, they would want to lock it to prevent owners from installing anything they want. how can they do that? with uefi of course! secure boot or whatever they call this shit. 
Nov 09 15:12:20 <bencoh> something like that yeah
Nov 09 15:15:24 <Sicelo009N> as long as i can run linux on it, and have as much of the hardware working
Nov 09 15:19:17 <Sicelo> /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_network_time_info
Nov 09 15:23:04 <zGrr> Sicelo:  well, it probably can run linux, but you might not be able to install linux. 
Nov 09 15:23:44 <zGrr> but there are no jolla tablets yet. 
Nov 09 15:24:25 <zGrr> except these 200 or so prototypes, they generously sent to some people. 
Nov 09 15:25:16 <zGrr> KotCzarny:  very interesting site, this olx.pl
Nov 09 15:26:18 <zGrr> KotCzarny:  you can get a broken n900 in very good shape for 80zł. 
Nov 09 15:26:36 <bencoh> "broken"
Nov 09 15:26:37 <bencoh> ?
Nov 09 15:26:50 <zGrr> KotCzarny:  maybe it could  be used as a "body donor" for neo900 mainboard?
Nov 09 15:27:21 <zGrr> or for parts
Nov 09 15:42:48 <KotCzarny> usually broken == bad usb port
Nov 09 15:44:03 <KotCzarny> also, sometimes you can get pretty much working device with bad sw or simple to fix
Nov 09 15:44:49 <KotCzarny> one of n900 i bought cheaply was 'no sd card/camera button not working'. fix was just replacing back cover
Nov 09 15:45:32 <KotCzarny> so if one looks quite often can get good one cheaply
Nov 09 19:46:24 <Oksanaa> Nokia N900 is calling itself BCM2048B0 Initialization Configuration. Whyever...
Nov 09 20:32:41 <Sicelo> omg! there's even an 'ex-council
Nov 09 20:32:48 <Sicelo> omg! there's even an 'ex-council cloak 
Nov 09 20:32:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 09 20:34:09 <KotCzarny> how about owner/n900 cloak?
Nov 09 21:06:26 <Sicelo> Oksanaa: yes, the name occasionally changes. comes from the bluetooth
Nov 09 21:22:19 <Oksanaa> Thank you!
Nov 09 21:24:48 <Sicelo> bug 8563
Nov 09 21:24:50 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8563 Device ID reset to "BCM2048B0 Initialization Configuration"
Nov 09 21:40:46 <Oksana> Not sure what steps, either. Should be noted that microUSB is broken (so nothing charger-related, unless the device sees phantoms), and I wasn't using bluetooth (though I did accidentally switch on FM transmitter from hildon-status-menu which may or may not be related... they are on the same chip)
Nov 09 21:42:57 <Sicelo> i think it's just a hiccup when loading the driver/module. fails to read the name set before possibly
Nov 09 21:53:45 <Oksana> Yes. But it is difficult to reproduce...
Nov 09 22:30:03 <Oksana> Did anybody ever create a libre osso-icons-theme , to replace osso-icons-default ? http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
Nov 09 22:31:24 <Oksana> To be fair, 1000+ files is a lot, even if each file is just a tiny icon
Nov 09 22:31:46 <klopsi-u3> i designed icons for a game, it took a lot of time
Nov 09 22:33:04 <Oksana> There are like 20 different sizes, so having SVG icons would make process easier (unless you want to manually fight against resize-blur)
Nov 09 22:34:20 <Oksana> Though if I take just 48x48 size, there are almost 500 files
Nov 09 22:36:04 * Oksana wonders if anybody would like something this archaic for Notes icon... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/P_writing_icon.svg/48px-P_writing_icon.svg.png
Nov 09 22:38:03 <klopsi-u3>  Oksana is it important to get replacement icons?
Nov 09 22:40:08 <Oksana> Not urgent, but it would be great to reduce the list of closed packages by creating a free alternative
Nov 09 22:41:19 <Oksana> Like, there are lots of free hildon-themes to choose from...
Nov 09 22:41:57 <klopsi-u3> i have distrust of themes, they seem to break things
Nov 09 22:44:31 <Oksana> Hmm, I am going to try out some of them, and maybe, wake up the maintainers?
Nov 09 22:44:44 <Oksana> They cannot fix it if they don't know what's broken
Nov 09 22:45:01 <klopsi-u3> true
Nov 09 22:45:47 <klopsi-u3> the only problem i have with the n900 is browsing the web
Nov 09 22:45:51 <jonwil> There are closed packages that would be far more useful to replace with open packages than osso-icons-default
Nov 09 22:47:15 <Oksana> Yes, just a thought. If there is somebody good with icons and design, but not programming, they could take up something like icons theme, and it would introduce them to debian packaging and the like...
Nov 09 22:47:52 <jonwil> true
Nov 09 22:48:03 <jonwil> but that's a lot of icons :)
Nov 09 22:48:43 <Oksana> Yes. They include mimetypes icons, too, in this package...
Nov 09 23:26:45 <klopsi-u3>  Oksana i appreciate wanting things open sourced, but i can't personally help with that one, my art skills aren't good enough
Nov 10 00:31:21 * jonwil wishes there were more people in this community with reverse engineering skills
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