**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 30 03:00:50 2015 Nov 30 07:22:39 Using the Android OS and using a Nokia N900 are not mutually exclusive because the Android OS can run on the Nokia N900. Nov 30 07:22:54 not that well Nov 30 07:23:16 only 256M of mem Nov 30 07:23:37 and you should know that nowadays even 1G might be a bit low for droid apps Nov 30 07:27:33 chem|st: tmo prefix filter is a bit b0rken: if i select "fremantle maemo 5" or "chinook diablo maemo4" it wont show threads prefixed with "M4+M5" Nov 30 07:27:48 Running an Android OS application does not require running the Android OS. Maemo 5 using a Linux kernel can run an Android OS application. BlackBerry 10 can run Android OS applications even though BlackBerry 10 is based on QNX, which uses a microkernel; Linux is a monolithic kernel. Nov 30 07:28:25 brolin, still, maemo eats most of the mem, so not much left for apps Nov 30 07:31:24 I can reportedly even use flinux (Foreign Linux) to run an installation of Arch Linux on Windows NT (on x86). Nov 30 07:40:59 It would be funny to have Mac OS proper running on a PowerPC ThinkPad beside a PowerPC PowerBook running Windows NT. :-D Nov 30 07:41:22 there is a powerpc thinkpad? Nov 30 07:43:03 KotCzarny: Yes, at least one model from the mid 1990s. Nov 30 07:43:11 yeah, just google it Nov 30 07:43:34 *googled Nov 30 07:45:12 KotCzarny: There is at least one model of PS/2 notebook computer too. IBM had OS/2 running on PowerPC but I do not know if OS/2 for PowerPC actually shipped as a finished product. Nov 30 07:46:23 what was the point? what did it run? Nov 30 07:46:30 kerio, it was 1995 Nov 30 07:46:41 at that time 486 was a 'beast' in intel world Nov 30 07:47:06 and windows was just bumping to w95 Nov 30 07:48:49 The 850 weighed 10+ lbs which is pretty heavy for a notebook. Scariest of all was the price: upwards of $12 000 US$ for the 850. Nov 30 07:48:50 o.O Nov 30 07:49:30 :D Nov 30 07:49:57 no i meant the ppc one Nov 30 07:49:57 which OS did it ship with? Nov 30 07:50:09 http://ps-2.kev009.com/aixtp/tphistory.html Nov 30 07:50:34 While four operating systems were slated to be released for the machine, only two -- AIX and Windows NT -- were widely used . OS/2 eventually was released for the PowerPC, but only in a limited way and it wasn't promoted Nov 30 07:52:31 pity, powerpc was a good cpu/arch Nov 30 07:52:45 I saw (and briefly used) a Nokia N950 IRL for the first time at my local hackerspace on Saturday night. Nov 30 07:53:01 meh, maybe i've been broken by x86 but i really don't see the point of such a laptop Nov 30 07:53:13 kerio, computing on the move Nov 30 07:53:23 same point as x86 laptops Nov 30 07:53:55 but the price tag (12000usd in 1995, which translates ~10x more nowadays) killed its chances for success and adoption Nov 30 07:54:06 yeah but Nov 30 07:54:06 how did they boot? Nov 30 07:54:26 by pressing power button? Nov 30 07:55:38 what's the equivalent of the BIOS for such a system? Nov 30 07:55:52 KotCzarny: The PowerPC ISA is derived from/based on the Power ISA (POWER ISA?), which is still current. Nov 30 07:56:32 kerio, my guess is they had some firmware too Nov 30 07:57:24 http://ps-2.kev009.com/aixtp/tpcapab.html Nov 30 07:57:37 this is pretty nice, remember, it was 1995 Nov 30 07:58:29 Still no closer to finding the real cause of what ails my N900 :( Nov 30 07:58:56 jonwil, cleared the usb port? Nov 30 07:59:04 yes I used the point of a nail to do it Nov 30 07:59:11 since that was what I had handy Nov 30 07:59:34 I have none of the tools necessary to do proper diagnosis/fix on the thing though... Nov 30 07:59:39 Before BlackBerry 10, there was a clamshell/flip BlackBerry model that I am only aware of seeing IRL once, around year 2010. Nov 30 08:02:02 kerio: http://ps-2.kev009.com/aixtp/tpfirmware.html Nov 30 08:02:06 yeah, there is firmware Nov 30 08:04:52 and no I dont know anyone else who does electronics who might be able to help me with the necessary tools (screwdrivers, multimeter, soldering iron etc) Nov 30 08:19:03 I wonder how Descent proper (AKA Descent 1) for DOS (from 1994/1995) is with one of the supported VR headsets that I have never had. Nov 30 08:38:22 * jonwil is bored :( Nov 30 08:38:56 jonwil, learn dsp compiler/ arm asm and optimize stuff? Nov 30 08:39:11 that could fetch you a nice paying job too Nov 30 08:42:52 Does a PowerPC ThinkPad use PATA for the internal drive bay so that I can install a 32-GB PATA SSD (not a CompactFlash card) that I can buy on eBay from one of the two Chinas for approximately 40 USD including shipping to Canada? Nov 30 08:42:59 scsi Nov 30 08:43:15 you would need scsi-2 to whatever you wanted Nov 30 08:44:11 also, my best guess would be: 1/ scsi-2 to pata adapter, 2/ pata--msata 1.8" adapter, 3/ msata ssd Nov 30 08:44:41 32G pata ssd would be pricer than the pata--msata + msata ssd Nov 30 08:45:26 KotCzarny: Parallel SCSI to Serial ATA? Nov 30 08:45:39 ide pata Nov 30 08:47:33 but as others noted, its more of collectible value than usability one Nov 30 08:47:45 only 860 had the 1024x768 screen Nov 30 08:49:14 KotCzarny: Actually, you are suggesting Parallel SCSI to Parallel ATA to Serial ATA? 0_o Two converters/bridges instead of only one? Nov 30 08:50:12 brolin, x41 thinkpads have internal sata--ide in the chipset, but even then its better to put ide--msata converter in it and get better quality ssd Nov 30 08:50:48 also, check if you can run that big drive in the ppc tp Nov 30 08:51:08 it was before 4GB drives, and you dont know if there are any gotchas Nov 30 08:51:34 KotCzarny: ThinkPad X41 uses x86, not PowerPC. Nov 30 08:51:57 yeah, but i used it as an example of multiple conversions Nov 30 08:56:36 KotCzarny: The x86 ThinkPads I have from 1994 (755CX), 1995 (755CD), 1996 (760C) use PATA for the internal HDD bay. I guess IBM used SCSI instead of PATA (ATA at the time) because SCSI HDDs offered higher performance than PATA HDDs? Nov 30 08:56:48 yes Nov 30 08:57:16 and scsi was probably used in servers (means aix support) Nov 30 09:01:30 moin :) Nov 30 09:03:21 KotCzarny: In any case, it would be useful to be able to use the same SSD as both a PATA and SATA drive in both stationary and portable computers, including ones using a 1.8-inch drive such as the Dell Latitude X1. Is this ideal feasible in practice? Nov 30 09:03:59 x1 needs 3.3V adapter (same as x40), Nov 30 09:04:38 (Is “feasible in practice” redundant?) Nov 30 09:04:44 definitely Nov 30 09:04:47 its cheap Nov 30 09:04:53 ~5-20usd for an adapter Nov 30 09:05:13 so you may get one for laptop, one for pc, and just move msata ssd Nov 30 09:05:47 (I mean does “feasible in practice” mean the same as “feasible”?) Nov 30 09:07:25 and if you ever decide you are not using lappy anymore, there are very nice 1.8" pata/sata portable usb cases Nov 30 09:08:10 (in which you can put that msata or msata+[ps]ata adapter) Nov 30 09:15:07 * jonwil needs to stop watching food videos on YouTube, its making my hungry :( Nov 30 09:15:16 watch cats Nov 30 09:16:27 KotCzarny: Have you actually tried what you are proposing? I ask because, theoretically, a CompactFlash card (using flash memory as opposed to an HDD (CompactHDD? CompactMagnetic?)) installed on a CompactFlash↔PATA adapter board is functionally equivalent to a PATA HDD or a PATA SSD but, in practice, my Real World™ experience is that a CompactFlash card installed on a CompactFlash↔PATA adapter board does not fully work in most of the computers I Nov 30 09:16:27 tried while a PATA SSD is truly a drop-in replacement for a PATA HDD. Nov 30 09:19:49 yes, i was using pata--cf adapter in x40 as a hdd for a long time Nov 30 09:20:37 then i bough pata--msata adapter and some cheap msata ssd. x40 is faster than many netbooks on the market today Nov 30 09:20:42 *bought Nov 30 09:21:21 and problem wasnt cf not working (because it was working 100%) but iops Nov 30 09:21:46 ~0.1-10 iops for cf, and 10000-50000 iops for adapter+msata Nov 30 09:23:03 cf specs have ide(pata) mode, so it might have been card not including that part or implementing badly Nov 30 09:23:57 and problem with pata ssd is that they are much older tech and at the same time much more expensive, because there is less demand for them Nov 30 09:24:34 just browse possible msata options, then compare even slowest/oldest ones with the pata ssd you are considering Nov 30 09:25:23 one thing to note, pata--msata adapter chip i own is a bit on the lower side (~70MB/s max), but iops is where it's at if you plan to use it as an os/home drive Nov 30 09:28:10 Simultaneously caring about using old technology and still using a Nokia N900 in late year 2015 seems ironic. :-D Nov 30 09:28:21 nope Nov 30 09:28:23 it isnt Nov 30 09:28:34 old tech != bad tech Nov 30 09:28:56 or in other words: newer != better Nov 30 09:30:19 i still use my x40, with ssd drive its fast enough (but at the same time suffers the same fate as n900, big, overloaded websites make the browsing slower) Nov 30 09:30:23 KotCzarny: You are preaching to the choir, if I may speak in a non-literal sense. Nov 30 09:30:30 There are some obsolete technologies I wish would vanish from the face of the earth (like the fax machine and the bank cheque) but I would take a Nokia N900 over a Galaxy S6 or an iPhone 6S any day Nov 30 09:31:06 jonwil, i would take the galaxy, then sold it, then bought neo900 Nov 30 09:31:11 ;) Nov 30 09:32:25 I cant give up my N900, if I did that, I wouldn't be able to continue all the great N900 dev work I have done :) Nov 30 09:32:57 and contributing so much code and information and other stuff to this fabulous community Nov 30 09:34:08 which is why I hope I can find a way to get my USB port sorted and all the problems with my phone not powering on properly with no cable inserted solved or else I am in trouble Nov 30 09:34:20 jonwil, best part of the n900, if i write app for it, i can compile it without any changes for my laptop Nov 30 09:34:23 and vice versa Nov 30 09:34:46 I run Windows on my main PC (with a Linux dev VM for N900 works) Nov 30 09:34:57 mostly because I play and edit and mod games that dont have Linux ports Nov 30 09:35:05 jonwil, want me to send you one of my n900 spares? (if you find cheap and reliable transport) Nov 30 09:36:12 shipping anything to Australia is always expensive :( Nov 30 09:36:29 jonwil, any friend travelling to/from .eu ? Nov 30 09:36:44 dont know anyone going to Europe anytime soon, no Nov 30 09:38:44 n900 mobo with removed usb and battery port for 5usd Nov 30 09:38:45 he he Nov 30 09:39:05 if i had some soldering skills, eh Nov 30 09:39:20 jonwil: ping me 1 or 2 days before xmas eve Nov 30 09:41:01 I am going on holidays from the 20th of December to the 26th of December (visiting family for xmas) and will have basically no internet access for that time Nov 30 09:41:12 certainly no IRC or anything like that Nov 30 09:42:29 KotCzarny: You still need multiple compilers unless your notebook computer uses ARM. I chose a Geeksphone Revolution as the first replacement for my second Nokia N900 that replaced my first Nokia N900 whose microUSB connector became intermittent because I wanted to simplify my computing by using the same architecture (x86 + PCI) on my mobile (handheld) computer as on my stationary (desktop) computer. Using ARM for my stationary computer is not feasible Nov 30 09:42:29 because I need to use Windows NT for x86-32, not for x86-64 nor ARM nor any other architecture. Nov 30 09:44:14 jonwil: well, then ping me when you're back home Nov 30 09:45:59 * jonwil suspects he will probably need to sort out his N900 somehow before his holiday Nov 30 09:46:32 Otherwise I may not have use of the phone at the times I need use of the phone for important stuff (like calling the person who will be meeting me at the airport) Nov 30 09:47:11 jonwil: Internet Relay Chat without Internet connectivity? :-P Nov 30 09:48:08 I fly out on the 20th and if I dont get my N900 fixed or replaced by then I am in trouble :( Nov 30 09:51:01 It's unfortunate that differing architectures is still such a big issue with compiling software. Nov 30 09:52:34 You should be able to take the source of some random program and compile it for some random platform. Nov 30 09:52:52 which you supposedly can do easily with Go, or programs written for Plan 9. Nov 30 09:54:05 otherwise it's probably easier doing platform emulation to run a same-platform system. Nov 30 09:54:53 (which is what happens in sandbox, with a few hacks) Nov 30 09:56:57 * brolin_empey waits for KotCzarny to rejoin this channel. Nov 30 10:00:16 If they ever invent a working time machine, I would use it to go back in time and prevent Microsoft from killing Nokia Nov 30 10:04:22 bleh. Nov 30 10:04:31 chem|st: ping Nov 30 10:05:18 Oh and find a way to stop the Symbian team from doing their best to ensure Maemo doesn't gain traction in order to prop up what little ecosystem Symbian has left (or rather had left at the time) Nov 30 10:05:25 Symbian was (and is) a piece of crap Nov 30 10:06:19 :) Nov 30 10:07:42 M$ didn't really kill Nokia ... but they definitely made it quicker than it would have been (or maybe somehow Nokia would have 'healed' itself with time .. we don't know) Nov 30 10:08:21 jonwil: Even literal crap has economic value, such as in the manure/fertiliser industry. Nov 30 10:09:10 jonwil: In other words, shit literally sells. Nov 30 10:09:22 If MS hadn't done what it did, its possible Nokia could have done what some others have done and have a Maemo system underneath running some sort of Android VM to provide the ecosystem Maemo never had Nov 30 10:09:45 IIRC BlackBerry is doing something similar with its new phone Nov 30 10:10:16 brb, need to get to the shops before they shut :) Nov 30 10:12:00 one thing we dont know is the future, nokia could've made maemo big one day Nov 30 10:12:23 but from the art salamisami posted few weeks ago, it's the beaurocracy that really killed nokia Nov 30 10:12:44 infighting Nov 30 10:12:48 maemo/nits had the chance because it started as experiment with small teams Nov 30 10:14:02 it should've stayed independent Nov 30 10:14:14 nokia.ca was the only Web site I saw that used a .ca ccTLD but was reportedly hosted in Finland. Nov 30 10:14:22 and n8x0 could've had builtin gsm module Nov 30 10:14:33 but it was political decision to not to compete with symbian Nov 30 10:15:19 now imagine, n8x0 as a tablet-phone! Nov 30 10:15:23 in 2006! Nov 30 10:16:00 and i bet many people would just use it till today Nov 30 10:17:10 on another note, i've written simple symbian app in the past. it was awful experience Nov 30 10:17:23 even worse than java Nov 30 10:19:19 i wouldn't call symbian crap. yes, it was difficult to get into Nov 30 10:20:38 and one has to keep in mind its epoc roots ... they were trying to fix it in later times, but that was too late, of course Nov 30 10:21:24 its hard to fix bad initial designs/concepts without rewriting almost everything Nov 30 10:21:45 that's why m$ windows is so big and ugly Nov 30 10:22:06 and symbian gave to maemo hildon .. Nov 30 10:23:11 which appeared first in the 9500 Communicator, and went fully-touch in the 7710 Nov 30 10:26:52 KotCzarny: pong, read you, nothing I can do about it without upgrading to 5.x Nov 30 10:26:52 what i hated about first phones/devices was the lack of customizability Nov 30 10:26:53 there were very practical reasons why symbian worked the way it did. Nov 30 10:27:13 what customization did you have in mind? Nov 30 10:27:16 chem|st: looked like a simple OR somewhere, but, heh Nov 30 10:27:31 nothing 'simple' in search engine Nov 30 10:27:34 i guess i will just remove the tag then Nov 30 10:28:00 I doubt people search that way Nov 30 10:28:04 um Nov 30 10:28:09 cant remove Nov 30 10:28:14 KotCzarny: My experience trying to use a 32-GB CompactFlash card to replace a PATA HDD is that I succeeded with a ThinkPad 755CD from 1995 (80486DX4 at 100 MHz, 16 MiB of main memory, AT bus + VLB, not PCI) but not with a ThinkPad G40 from 2003 (Pentium 4-based (I think?) Celeron, 512 MiB of main memory, PCI). Nov 30 10:28:38 chem|st: i can only change it, can you remove it for me? this is the thread: talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94590 Nov 30 10:29:03 brolin: could've been bad adapter Nov 30 10:29:19 KotCzarny: where is the harm in having it? Nov 30 10:29:32 brolin: but newer bioses could also be fussy about cf card presenting as removable devices Nov 30 10:30:09 chem|st: the above reason Nov 30 10:32:40 broling: theoretically g40 and x40 share the bios, and i (and many other people) used cf+adapter as a hdd there Nov 30 10:35:25 KotCzarny: IIRC, on the ThinkPad G40, GRUB was loaded from the CF card and GRUB began to run but could not get as far as trying to boot an OS. Nov 30 10:37:22 KotCzarny: search will return nothing either way Nov 30 10:37:55 with your reason I should remove all dual tags, and that is not gonna happen Nov 30 10:38:31 chem|st: please just remove the tag from that thread Nov 30 10:40:50 brolin: hmm, seems like trouble with the grub then Nov 30 10:42:02 brolin: i remember that installing grub on another pc, or even from booted os, could lead to grub not working Nov 30 10:42:45 brolin: safest bet is to create small boot partition, and format it with -I 128 param (for ext2/3) Nov 30 10:43:16 brolin: then booting grub from floppy or usb and then installing grub on mbr of the hdd Nov 30 10:43:16 I have a used Canon PowerShot G6 digital still camera, which is the last model in the PowerShot G series to use CF instead of SD card; I thought it would be novel to use a microdrive (HDD in CF card) to use magnetic non-volatile memory in a digital still camera, like the Sony DSC that used a 3.5-inch/9-cm/micro High-density flexible disc drive. Nov 30 10:43:53 microdives are slow too Nov 30 10:46:30 KotCzarny: symbian != s60 in the same way maemo != fremantle ... i found S80 to be very customizable. there was even a python-like language called OPL, which was used to do even more amazing things. Nov 30 10:47:06 of course doesn't come close to Maemo (where we have the benefit of the whole linux ecosystem) Nov 30 10:47:12 :) Nov 30 10:47:20 yeah, maemo > symbian Nov 30 10:48:39 then remember the amount of RAM on devices those days ;) Nov 30 10:49:02 symbian was the perfect productivity OS given the situation at that time Nov 30 10:49:27 that's true, but also remember first linuxes ran on 4-8MB of ram Nov 30 10:49:42 the phones had less Nov 30 10:50:20 the N-Gage had just over 10MB available, and this phone had lots of RAM for those days Nov 30 10:51:06 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_7650-288.php Nov 30 10:51:09 A woman who worked at my primary school when I was in grade 7, in year 1999 or 2000, used a Sony DSC that used a flexible disc drive; that is the only time I seen such a camera IRL. Nov 30 10:51:13 9500 had 64MB of ram Nov 30 10:52:34 and nokia 9000 (in 1996) had 8MB of ram Nov 30 10:52:59 unless we are talking about featurephones, in which case symbian == s60 or worse Nov 30 10:53:06 I mean a camera from any make/brand, not only Sony. Nov 30 10:53:39 we have 256MB on N900 .. how much of it is really useable to the user? we swap within minutes of uptime. that 7650 with 4MB RAM gave the user 3.6MB RAM the whole time :) Nov 30 10:54:45 sicelo: depends what are you using, if uis based on web content, yeah, if slim apps without the bloat? well, then 32MB is plenty Nov 30 10:54:52 not saying it is any better, haha ... but i disagree that symbian is/was crap. maybe what was wrong was for Nokia to put it on a mobile phone .. it was better for PDA type devices, like the Psion's where it came from Nov 30 10:55:42 imagine what would've happened if nokia put linux on nokia 9000 and stayed with it (without adding too much bloat) Nov 30 10:55:43 and of course, i completely agree it was outdated Nov 30 10:56:20 by the time of n900 it would be pretty much tried, tested and apps from 9000's time would still work (i guess) Nov 30 10:57:26 lol, 9000 is based on i386 cpu Nov 30 10:58:01 (AMD Elan SC450 486 but still, x86) Nov 30 10:58:59 An Intel product is an AMD. Nov 30 10:59:10 slap on second cpu for opengl and it would be perfect gaming console (wide screen, kb) Nov 30 11:00:58 chem|st: thank you Nov 30 11:01:15 KotCzarny: GLQuake from 1996? Nov 30 11:01:53 :) Nov 30 11:04:50 I recently wondered if anyone has GLQuake or another early graphics application that can scale to run at video modes (far) beyond what was possible when it was developed at UHD (“4K”). Nov 30 11:06:14 brolin, glquake doesnt have arbitrary scaling already? Nov 30 11:08:14 KotCzarny: I mean I wonder if anyone with UHD-capable hardware, which currently excludes me, has tried to run GLQuake or similar at an UHD video mode. Nov 30 11:08:29 brolin, run in a big window? Nov 30 11:08:48 even if you won't see it complete, you will see how it scales Nov 30 11:13:16 It would be impressive if a Win32 OpenGL application from 1996 can still scale up to the display standards used by hardware released almost 2 decades after the application. Nov 30 11:14:07 brolin: i think it was already impressive when quake got first rescale operation (ie. from 320ish into 1024ish) Nov 30 11:15:40 KotCzarny: the 9000 didn't use symbian :) Nov 30 11:16:19 sicelo, it was smartphones predecessor, there wasnt os for it yet Nov 30 11:16:21 :) Nov 30 11:16:26 ? Nov 30 11:17:00 there was. lol. how would a computer work without OS? Nov 30 11:17:12 GEOS is what it ran Nov 30 11:17:19 symbian was created in 1998 Nov 30 11:18:26 KotCzarny: My own build from year 2005 of the DOS version of Quake using DJGPP runs using the software renderer at up to 1280×1024 on both real hardware and in DOSBox. Nov 30 11:19:09 that's why i mentioned EPOC .. symbian was a rename of EPOC, which came from Psion PDAs Nov 30 11:19:23 GEOS has no relation Nov 30 11:21:42 in a way it was logical to use pda's os for such phone Nov 30 11:22:00 pity they didnt expected market for smartphone at the time Nov 30 11:23:09 agree :) Nov 30 11:23:56 symbian did enjoy a lot of popularity though .. nokia didn't fix the blockers in good time Nov 30 11:24:03 and it took what, 5-10 years? Nov 30 11:24:40 it seems in general people were happy with symbian^3 .. but by then it was too late to save them Nov 30 11:25:19 sicelo, android just blew everything by making it easier for people to make apps Nov 30 11:26:18 yes Nov 30 11:26:32 ^3 arrived in 2010 Nov 30 11:26:39 and, even better to allow people to share the work with the world Nov 30 11:27:15 um .. meaning? Nov 30 11:27:23 google store Nov 30 11:28:08 KotCzarny: DOOM2.EXE running on real hardware silently hangs when it tries to switch to graphics mode when run with MDA/HGC but not VGA installed because the application incorrectly assumes that the optional hardware (video controller) it requires is present. QUAKE.EXE run on the same real computer continues running even though the video subsystem of the application requires hardware that is not present. :-D Nov 30 11:28:56 brolin, nah, dos apps will always be limited to dos hardware Nov 30 11:29:23 it's the opengl opensourced ones that have a chance to look nice on 4k Nov 30 11:35:20 KotCzarny: I was not continuing the subject of running applications from the 1990s at UHD. Nov 30 11:38:44 as for dos apps, dosemu Nov 30 11:38:58 even for windows gaming gog/steam use dosemu for old games Nov 30 11:39:50 KotCzarny: You mean DOSBox, not DOSemu. Nov 30 11:55:56 right. Nov 30 11:58:16 Both the release of the Nokia N900 in late 2009 and finding in 2014 a SimCity 2000 recreation from 1997 of my hometown (homecity?) of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada were more interesting to me than having the Winter Olympic Games held in the real city IRL in early 2010. :-D Nov 30 12:04:46 KotCzarny: Where do you live IRL (geographically)? Somewhere in Europe, I gather. Nov 30 12:04:53 .pl Nov 30 12:05:56 perl.pl ? ;-) Nov 30 12:06:52 Jack Tramiel is (was) from Poland. Nov 30 12:07:09 yes Nov 30 12:07:17 he is dead now (afair) Nov 30 12:08:09 Yes, he lived from 1928 to 2012. Nov 30 12:14:49 and yes, i was in the atari team (as opposed to c64 ;) Nov 30 12:15:04 not that i had much choice, my parents bought me it Nov 30 12:18:59 his short history on the wiki is nice to read Nov 30 12:23:26 The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name Nov 30 12:23:33 hehe Nov 30 14:42:09 KotCzarny: I looked up Jack Tramiel on the English-language Wikipedia to check if I correctly remembered the years of his birth and death. I had already redd the part of the article that you pasted before I Alt+Tabbed back to my IRC client. ☺ Nov 30 14:42:22 :) Nov 30 14:42:45 i didnt know many parts of the wiki article Nov 30 14:48:12 The explanation by Jack’s son for Jack resigning from Commodore, the company Jack founded, had been added since the last time I accessed the article. I wonder what type of assets and type of use Jack meant. Nov 30 14:48:47 people maybe? Nov 30 14:55:56 I was comparing the English-language and Polish-language articles on Jack Tramiel. Apparently “data” is the Polish-language word for date, as in calendar date? How are the English-language words “datum” (singular noun) and “data” (plural noun) translated to the Polish language if “data” already means “date”? Nov 30 14:56:27 yes, date is data and data is dane Nov 30 14:57:20 i shall check what is the exact definition of datum Nov 30 14:58:26 i think there is no singular for 'dane' Nov 30 14:58:47 well, maybe 'dana' Nov 30 14:58:51 KotCzarny: In the English language, “datum” is the singular form of the plural form “data”. Nov 30 14:59:30 so, (datum, data) => (dane, dana) Nov 30 14:59:53 so, (datum, data) => (dana, dane) * Nov 30 15:02:59 word root wise it came from 'given', as when you solve some equation and have given variables Nov 30 15:04:11 KotCzarny: Are these words examples of “false friends” in the linguistic sense? In the English language, “Dane” is the demonym of Denmark, like “Pole” for Poland; “Dana” is a feminine/female given name. Nov 30 15:04:43 and given being an adjective of give (similarly dane is an adjective of dac') Nov 30 15:04:58 yes, false friend words Nov 30 15:05:09 (also my router iis acting up so sorry for typos) Nov 30 15:07:27 KotCzarny: What does “KotCzarny” mean? Nov 30 15:07:52 CatBlack, what does brolin empey mean? Nov 30 15:08:14 Is it your legal/“real” name? Nov 30 15:08:22 nope, it's a nickname Nov 30 15:10:50 KotCzarny: Heh, I thought you were addressing a user named CatBlack but I see that there is no such nick currently in this channel. I guess you meant that “KotCzarny” means “CatBlack” in the Polish language? Nov 30 15:11:14 yes, it's a literal translation Nov 30 15:12:17 and if youve ever seen my tmo avatar, you would've guessed Nov 30 15:14:57 KotCzarny: OK. I rarely use the maemo.org Web site any more because I retired my Nokia N900 in year 2014. Nov 30 15:15:08 pity Nov 30 15:15:55 if its not broken you can give a second life to it as an audio player/remote control Nov 30 15:16:19 oscp Nov 30 15:16:27 ^ Nov 30 15:16:29 :) Nov 30 15:18:03 KotCzarny: For an audio player, I use Winamp on my desktop computer driving headphones using the analog line-level audio output integrated on the motherboard. Nov 30 15:18:51 oscp also has winamp skin mode Nov 30 15:19:29 not going to preach now though because i have to run, bbl Nov 30 15:21:00 KotCzarny: I have an ATI RF remote control (transmitter) and USB receiver that I never use because I do not need them because I am near enough to my desktop computer to use the corded keyboard or corded mouse. Nov 30 15:28:59 KotCzarny: “Brolin Empey” is the first and last of my legal names: my “real” name. Nov 30 15:30:59 (As opposed to Unreal name as opposed to Quake name?) Nov 30 15:36:17 I wonder if the new company named Alphabet employs persons named Roman (or Latin) and Cyril (or Methodius)? :-D Nov 30 15:42:05 Sicelo: Offensive Security Certified Professional? I guess not. Nov 30 15:50:02 Never mind, OSCP in this context probably refers to the subject of [1]. Nov 30 15:50:02 [1] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=535bf9cf0541e359bce8d3f4553c6f82&t=94590 Nov 30 17:20:21 haha brolin_empey :p Nov 30 17:38:51 brolin, yes, oscp ALSO can use lirc as a command input Nov 30 17:39:20 in fact it's what im using at home when im doing chores and dont want to go to comp every time i want to change the track Nov 30 17:39:27 remote fits in any pocket Nov 30 17:41:02 you didn't get him :-/ Nov 30 17:41:17 sicelo, i did, just said my use case Nov 30 17:41:38 and rf remotes rock Nov 30 17:41:58 they usually allow you to control things from 10-20m and through the walls Nov 30 17:42:17 might be more with clear view Nov 30 17:43:00 which reminds me, i should add remote learning code (right now its a bit hardcoded) Nov 30 19:34:15 looks weird, sounds great .. that was on Nokia 5510 box Nov 30 19:34:17 haha Nov 30 19:37:04 * KotCzarny owns 5510 Nov 30 19:37:28 i remember. i've never seen it in RL Nov 30 19:37:29 it was working, but last time i tried to turn it on it hung when starting mp3 player :/ Nov 30 19:37:41 probably flash memory died Nov 30 19:37:45 did you have the earphone in the correct jack? Nov 30 19:38:40 as much as my english is my second language, that sentence sounded weird Nov 30 19:39:03 jack is the male part of the connector Nov 30 19:39:35 nope Nov 30 19:40:07 nope? Nov 30 19:40:43 "jack is the male part of the connector" Nov 30 19:40:46 nope :) Nov 30 19:40:49 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_%28audio%29 Nov 30 19:41:42 read it again Nov 30 19:41:44 In the US, a stationary (more fixed) electrical connector is called a "jack".[ Nov 30 19:41:49 'in the us' Nov 30 19:42:01 In the UK, the terms jack plug and jack socket are commonly used for the respective male and female phone connectors Nov 30 19:42:12 are you, by chance, us based? Nov 30 19:42:33 well, you still understood what i meant :) Nov 30 19:42:41 :) Nov 30 19:42:45 and yes .. you're right technically Nov 30 19:46:40 but yeah, that jack thing is new to me Nov 30 19:46:55 another word i can use correctly now! ;) Nov 30 19:47:17 bencoh is someone else with 5510 iirc Nov 30 19:47:39 yeah, i remember the last time we had 5510 on the plate Nov 30 20:00:40 i like the build of the N810 though (which i've also never seen in RL) Nov 30 20:00:53 i did, its nice Nov 30 20:01:15 think of n900 made from alu Nov 30 20:01:20 all of it Nov 30 20:03:58 really beautiful Nov 30 20:06:54 n800 feels nice too, big screen, good balance Nov 30 20:07:12 and the bump in the back helps when holding it Nov 30 20:17:10 i wonder if anyone owned it in these parts Nov 30 20:18:14 if you just wanted to touch it, why not, but if you own n900 already there is no point Nov 30 20:30:16 * ds3 *heart* N800 Nov 30 20:30:50 ds3, did you know that nokia was *THAT* close to include gsm modem in n800? Nov 30 20:31:11 and its because of symbian folks that it didnt Nov 30 20:31:52 having used the N900 and obsoleting it, I have strong mixed feelings about having a modem in my device Nov 30 20:32:09 i wouldnt obsolete my n800 Nov 30 20:32:40 I think what I would like to have is a playing card sized black box with just a modem + bt or USB Nov 30 20:33:01 KotCzarny: what am I to do if all I can use on there is 2.5G (aka EDGE) Nov 30 20:33:40 ds3, i'm talking about gsm for voice, for data there is wifi/bt Nov 30 20:33:58 i dont care much for cell data (still too pricey) Nov 30 20:34:48 coverage for just 2.xG here sucks Nov 30 20:35:12 for US carriers, you need like 5bands, and 3-4 protocol support for decent converage Nov 30 20:35:14 coverage Nov 30 20:35:19 my n900 is set to 2.xG Nov 30 20:36:24 on 2.xG, I get 0 cover 50% of the time Nov 30 20:37:07 for ATT, you need the 850MHz coverage; for TMO, the AWS band became LTE Nov 30 20:37:28 hence the desire to move the modem outside Nov 30 20:37:44 and have the N900 work as a BT HSP device for voice Nov 30 20:44:24 <3 n900 and <3 n810 Nov 30 20:44:33 now trying to get a n800 Nov 30 20:44:58 n800 is basically n810 with 2x full size sd slot and without keyboard Nov 30 20:45:48 makes a nice mediaplayer Nov 30 20:46:10 wow, another potential oscp user? Nov 30 20:46:11 thats whats the n810 is being used for half the time Nov 30 20:46:55 maybe i shall update diablo packages Nov 30 20:47:22 hmm, oscp looks interesting Nov 30 20:47:59 henkjan, you might even use oscp-remote on n900 to control n8x0 connected to hifi set Nov 30 20:50:49 if you have any questions, ask, if you have any feedback, please do (and mind you, diablo package is old, i shall get around to update it tomorrow) Nov 30 20:53:14 2 full size? thought one of the N800 slots is half sized Nov 30 21:03:12 there is a little maintenance in progress into the maemo.org servers. Some service may disappear for a few seconds Nov 30 21:18:16 ds3: n800 has 2 full size sd slots Nov 30 21:18:33 n810 has 1 half size and few gigs one soldered onboard Nov 30 21:36:22 Some devices such as the ARM Cortex-A8 have a cut-down VFPLite module instead of a full VFP module, and require roughly ten times more clock cycles per float operation Nov 30 21:36:24 huh Nov 30 21:40:21 is ARM's first open source project (from its inception). The Ne10 library is a set of common, useful functions written in both NEON and C (for compatibility). The library was created to allow developers to use NEON optimizations without learning NEON but it also serves as a set of highly optimized NEON intrinsic and assembly code examples for common DSP, arithmetic and image processing routines. The code is available on GitHub Nov 30 21:40:37 (ProjectNe10) Nov 30 21:49:03 https://community.arm.com/groups/android-community/blog/2013/12/18/projectne10-fft-is-updated Nov 30 21:54:19 how about implementing xprot using libne10? Nov 30 22:01:50 nice idea Nov 30 22:37:35 KotCzarny: why should we do that? Nov 30 22:48:55 La Gomera anybody? Nov 30 22:54:06 La Gomera anybody? Nov 30 22:54:38 ~botsnack Nov 30 22:59:05 bot seems to have been offline for a few days Nov 30 23:04:45 please let me know if purl or apt are online on freenode Nov 30 23:11:51 Hi, I was here some time ago looking for help with my ban at maemo.org domain. I wrote an e-mail to stopforumspam.com, but no response so far (since 18.11.15). Now I know more about the origin of those spam entries. Whom should I address my e-mail about unbanning my IP ? Nov 30 23:20:28 t4nk738: ping chem|st! writing mails to stopforumspam doesnt help Nov 30 23:22:55 thanks Nov 30 23:25:30 chem|st: ^^^ Nov 30 23:26:33 t4nk738: /query chem|st , and provide your IP Nov 30 23:27:30 done Nov 30 23:28:19