**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 06 02:59:58 2015
Dec 06 16:40:48 <KotCzarny> dammit. why couldn't upnp be simple as html browsing
Dec 06 17:38:02 <SpeedEvil>  js/xml/soap/json/xlat/xslt/oauth/ssl/...
Dec 06 17:38:22 <KotCzarny> *SIMPLE*
Dec 06 17:39:16 <KotCzarny> i know file/dir attrs might be important, but.
Dec 06 17:39:45 <SpeedEvil> yes - I was arguing that html browsing isn't very simple
Dec 06 17:40:25 <KotCzarny> speedevil, by any chance you know about upnp a/v?
Dec 06 17:40:36 <SpeedEvil> regrettably not, sorry
Dec 06 17:50:05 * Sicelo wonders what KotCzarny needs to do 
Dec 06 17:50:26 <KotCzarny> sicelo: implement upnp a/v directory browser
Dec 06 17:50:54 <KotCzarny> but without adding too much bloat
Dec 06 17:51:41 <KotCzarny> if i manage to write simple client, oscp will be able to browse and access mediaservers on the network
Dec 06 17:56:45 <Sicelo> aren't there already libraries for that? or you want to code your own?
Dec 06 17:57:01 <Sicelo> on unrelated note, this seems interesting, and cheap: http://pine64.com/
Dec 06 17:57:16 <KotCzarny> those libs are fat or c++
Dec 06 17:59:10 <Sicelo> maybe build against the libs already on device?
Dec 06 17:59:33 <KotCzarny> sicelo: oscp is multiplatform, it will have to work with different envs
Dec 06 17:59:40 <KotCzarny> including cygwin
Dec 06 18:00:42 <Sicelo> good luck :)
Dec 06 18:02:15 <KotCzarny> i wonder how much is s&h for that pine64
Dec 06 18:04:11 <KotCzarny> 19usd for quadcore with 1GB of ram is pretty sweet price
Dec 06 18:05:22 <KotCzarny> also, i'm confused, there is no way to buy it
Dec 06 18:10:05 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: nice device, i just bought a chep android table, n800 battery beats that crap
Dec 06 18:10:23 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: um?
Dec 06 18:11:06 <sunshavi> midm-k8 is the model. It is a generic one
Dec 06 18:11:34 <DocScrutinizer51> quite quiet! quit?
Dec 06 18:11:47 <sunshavi> i like the n800 dpad more than everything
Dec 06 18:12:06 <DocScrutinizer51> oops nope, just scrollback error
Dec 06 18:12:08 <KotCzarny> yes, n800 is nice
Dec 06 18:12:19 <sunshavi> good light notification, when chat or email arrives, n900 does offer smth similar to the dpad
Dec 06 18:12:46 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: 810 dpad better
Dec 06 18:13:03 <Sicelo> yeah KotCzarny. the price is really nice on that pine
Dec 06 18:13:18 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: probably, but not near my hand here on south america
Dec 06 18:13:22 <KotCzarny> sicelo: that pine is either just rounding up that website or vaporware
Dec 06 18:13:52 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm
Dec 06 18:14:22 <DocScrutinizer51> I guess 810 is easier to find than 800. But maybe I'm wrong
Dec 06 18:14:43 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: I like that pine. I hope the processor is better than the cheap allwinner or rockchip, that there is plenty here
Dec 06 18:15:05 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: isnt a53 allwinner already on that pic?
Dec 06 18:15:34 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: I have not checked carefully. Let me see
Dec 06 18:16:01 <KotCzarny> logo is similar, and model number. actually its a64
Dec 06 18:16:46 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: Yes. It is an allwinner. But perhaps Miles May vary, or with a great battery
Dec 06 18:17:29 <KotCzarny> The AllWinner A64 chip comes with four Cortex A53 Cores which are power efficient as well as powerful
Dec 06 18:18:18 <KotCzarny> a64 costs just 5$
Dec 06 18:18:28 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: n800 for me is almost a laptop replacement, I am near to port mbsync to it for reading MailDir, and is is going to be almost complete, a great bluetooth keyboard would be a nice addition, I have a video doing a hello_world app with C there
Dec 06 18:20:27 <sunshavi> another great thing about the virtual keyboard on the n800 is the toolbar, on android, there is no posibility to have smth like It. All the virtual_kbd or nothing on android
Dec 06 18:20:51 <KotCzarny> sunshavi, if you want alternative vkb, you might try xvkbd
Dec 06 18:21:14 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: on android?
Dec 06 18:21:19 <KotCzarny> on n800
Dec 06 18:21:47 <KotCzarny> i was missing quick hide/show button and full kb layout, so i hacked xvkbd and it worked great
Dec 06 18:21:49 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: I am in love with the default virtual keyboard, 4 me nothing beats it
Dec 06 18:22:34 <sunshavi> after personalizing the toolbar. It is great for ur own needs. xvkdb has a toolbar?
Dec 06 18:22:49 <KotCzarny> xvkbd has customizable layout
Dec 06 18:23:22 <KotCzarny> o you can also add multichar sequences etc
Dec 06 18:23:40 <KotCzarny> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=164137&postcount=8
Dec 06 18:23:45 <KotCzarny> this is how i use it
Dec 06 18:24:21 <KotCzarny> also, keys have smart wheel, ie. you can long press them then select ctrl/shift etc from popup
Dec 06 18:24:22 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: I use emacs on the n800, toolbar, let mi use it as a browser, and reclaim most of the space for displaying the news, web pages or whatever Y want to wach on the n800
Dec 06 18:25:07 <KotCzarny> i shall reup the files somewhere one day
Dec 06 18:26:19 <sunshavi>  KotCzarny: I should just sacrifice one line, that's the reason for my pleasure with the toolbar (more space available). But probably I should try xvkbd too. And see by myself
Dec 06 18:26:33 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: I learned about Nokia NIT in Taipei from rasterman who brought a N800 to our openmoko appartment. Back in Europe first thing to do was get me a N810 :)
Dec 06 18:27:09 <DocScrutinizer51> then eventually Nokia announced N900 and I fell in love
Dec 06 18:27:29 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: lol, that's great. I heard about n800 on palm mailing list
Dec 06 18:27:51 <KotCzarny> n900 has no dpad on the front
Dec 06 18:28:35 <DocScrutinizer51> right
Dec 06 18:28:41 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: I have one n900 also. But for me n800 is a way better, cos of the dpad, It is turned on always on my home
Dec 06 18:29:47 <sunshavi> now, we are chatting cos my workstation is connected throught bluetooth to n800, n800 provides internet to this workstation
Dec 06 18:30:13 <Sicelo> and i first come into contact with NITs in 2010 following an boredom-induced google search for "linux phone"
Dec 06 18:30:20 <DocScrutinizer51> yes, I complained massively about Usability and GUI dudes dropping the comprehensive hotkey support and dpad on N900
Dec 06 18:31:28 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: we're also chatting because of N900 xchat is an easy going even in holiday
Dec 06 18:32:30 <sunshavi> My dream for being "environmentally friendly" is having the n800 connected to www throught an usb_ethernet adapter, and just publish a bluetooth network, turning down completely the wifi, :)
Dec 06 18:32:59 <KotCzarny> usb host mode in n8x0 is quirky :/
Dec 06 18:33:06 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: lol, that's great and funny, our digital life depends on NIT's
Dec 06 18:33:19 <Sicelo> no. our lives :)
Dec 06 18:33:22 <DocScrutinizer51> yes :)
Dec 06 18:33:24 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: i love thinkpads
Dec 06 18:33:44 <KotCzarny> but the old ones, before lenovo trashed them into current state
Dec 06 18:33:47 <sunshavi> mee too, but I just have a toshiba m35x
Dec 06 18:34:14 <sunshavi> yes, but, I have a compaq n600c, have the same kbd as thinkpads
Dec 06 18:34:30 <sunshavi> my child use the compaq n600c a lot
Dec 06 18:34:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 06 18:35:02 <sunshavi> and I did some months ago, when my powercord was lost
Dec 06 18:35:03 <KotCzarny> i have few of them in regular use, x40, x60s, x61, t61
Dec 06 18:35:12 <sunshavi> with coreboot?
Dec 06 18:35:16 <KotCzarny> x40 is the piece of engineering art
Dec 06 18:35:25 <KotCzarny> coreboot?
Dec 06 18:35:33 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway afk again. expired my allowed online aka work worry time
Dec 06 18:35:54 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Dec 06 18:35:55 <sunshavi> right, coreboot, a free bios, that let Unix improve boot time
Dec 06 18:36:07 <DocScrutinizer51> ohmy
Dec 06 18:36:11 <KotCzarny> ahm, would love to, but it requires tools i dont have
Dec 06 18:46:13 <sunshavi> there is a how to for t60 of x60, if memory does fails me
Dec 06 18:46:29 <sunshavi> replace(of|or)
Dec 06 18:46:46 <sunshavi> thinkpads are coreboot friendly
Dec 06 18:46:46 <KotCzarny> yes, but it requires hardware tool, ie. you cant flash chip from any os because bios locks it
Dec 06 18:47:00 <KotCzarny> once you do it, you can reflash it without the tool
Dec 06 18:47:38 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: right.
Dec 06 18:48:11 <KotCzarny> unless they found a way
Dec 06 18:54:42 <sunshavi> let me find the article
Dec 06 18:54:49 <KotCzarny> https://www.coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x60/Installation
Dec 06 18:54:51 <KotCzarny> just reading
Dec 06 18:55:02 <sunshavi> https://blogs.fsfe.org/the_unconventional/2015/05/08/coreboot-t60-raspberry-pi/
Dec 06 18:56:05 <sunshavi> even, I remember i mailed the author. A very nice person. btw
Dec 06 18:57:28 <KotCzarny> i think they worked it around
Dec 06 18:57:31 <KotCzarny> nice
Dec 06 19:04:12 <KotCzarny> but windows doesnt boot with coreboot, he he
Dec 06 19:11:12 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: lol
Dec 06 19:12:49 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: do you own an n810?
Dec 06 19:36:13 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: 2
Dec 06 19:37:03 <sunshavi> :o, that's great, I have 2 n800 too
Dec 06 19:37:17 <sunshavi> Do You use it regularly?
Dec 06 19:39:26 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: 2
Dec 06 19:40:55 <DocScrutinizer51> or was it 3?
Dec 06 19:41:58 <DocScrutinizer51> then I got me 3 N900 before I got another few dozen of them
Dec 06 19:42:06 <sunshavi> lol, Do You program with it?. Just with the device alone, not ssh, or kbd
Dec 06 19:42:24 <sunshavi> lol, I just have one N900, but I would like to have one more
Dec 06 19:43:09 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51 replace-string("or kdb"|"or bluetooth kbd")
Dec 06 19:43:23 <DocScrutinizer51> huh?
Dec 06 19:44:08 <sunshavi> lol, Do You program with it?. Just with the device alone, not ssh,
Dec 06 19:44:09 <sunshavi>            or bluetooth kdb. Resending again corrected
Dec 06 19:44:50 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm not a full time sw developer (any more)
Dec 06 19:45:49 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm getting old, so resorting to management mainly
Dec 06 19:46:12 <DocScrutinizer51> plus a tad of hw development
Dec 06 19:46:36 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Dec 06 19:47:02 <DocScrutinizer51> damn bot scheduler :-(
Dec 06 19:48:00 <DocScrutinizer51> ns info infobot
Dec 06 19:48:07 <DocScrutinizer51> grrr
Dec 06 19:51:37 <Win7Mac> hi
Dec 06 19:51:39 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: last thing I did for maemo development was h-e-n
Dec 06 19:51:59 <Win7Mac> is it correct to distinguish between binary + installable/executable?
Dec 06 19:52:21 <Win7Mac> or better to seperate those in terms?
Dec 06 19:53:11 <Win7Mac> niary needs to be compiled, right?
Dec 06 19:53:19 <Win7Mac> *binary
Dec 06 19:55:13 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Dec 06 19:56:01 <DocScrutinizer51> executable could also be script
Dec 06 19:57:53 <Win7Mac> thanks doc, btw, if you engage in maemo development, you may get rewarded, Council is planning a CC... hence I'm asking
Dec 06 19:59:04 <Win7Mac> and we'd love to have a Neo category, just not sure how that could be any different from N900...
Dec 06 20:00:40 <kerio> what's a CC
Dec 06 20:00:44 <Win7Mac> There is the idea of category "Free it" (backport, replace or supersede closed packages)
Dec 06 20:00:55 <Win7Mac> Coding Competition
Dec 06 20:01:19 <Win7Mac> 2016
Dec 06 20:03:28 <DocScrutinizer51> doing real work is a full time job. No spare time for applying to any contests. YMMV
Dec 06 20:05:51 <sunshavi> DocScrutinizer51: what is h-e-n "hostmode?"
Dec 06 20:06:34 <Win7Mac> Do you see a way how a CC could support fpft?
Dec 06 20:06:50 <DocScrutinizer51> I could 0ply with h-e-n, or fmg with thumb, both mission accomplished despite everybody incl gurus and Nokia said 'mission impossible'
Dec 06 20:07:02 <DocScrutinizer51> sunshavi: yep
Dec 06 20:07:27 <sunshavi> nice, time to go out with the family
Dec 06 20:11:10 <DocScrutinizer51> but then I have absolutely no spare time and no interest in applying in any CC, and aiui same for fmg
Dec 06 20:11:51 <Sicelo> would there even be a competition with FMG/Jonwil present? unfair advantange :)
Dec 06 20:12:29 <jonwil> We need all the devs we can get
Dec 06 20:12:44 <jonwil> Neo900 software stack/FPTF is not going to be easy
Dec 06 20:14:27 <Win7Mac> if there's a way to support those efforts in a CC, we'd love to
Dec 06 20:14:52 <Win7Mac> if it's a matter of category, we'll find a way
Dec 06 20:14:54 <KotCzarny> maybe there should be categories
Dec 06 20:15:03 <KotCzarny> RE, apps, scripts
Dec 06 20:15:11 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm a mentor to fptf, at best. Actually I'm irrelevant. So ask the ones who are involved please
Dec 06 20:15:53 <Win7Mac> KotCzarny, again, we'd love to have a Neo category, just not sure how that could be any different from N900...
Dec 06 20:16:02 <Win7Mac> and there is the idea of category "Free it" (backport, replace or supersede closed packages)
Dec 06 20:16:32 <KotCzarny> neo will profit from anything freed in n900
Dec 06 20:16:47 <Win7Mac> sure
Dec 06 20:16:57 <DocScrutinizer51> there are only 3 competitors in that: fmg, pali, jonwil 
Dec 06 20:17:04 <Win7Mac> ;)
Dec 06 20:18:04 <jonwil> Not even sure what package I would pick to do for such a contest
Dec 06 20:18:16 <KotCzarny> jonwil, all of them
Dec 06 20:18:18 <KotCzarny> ;)
Dec 06 20:18:20 <jonwil> all the stuff worth cloning has largely been done (or is too hard to do)
Dec 06 20:18:57 <Win7Mac> well, if they need a device and that'll help achieving what's needed that'd be a good reason to support one of you 3
Dec 06 20:20:00 <Sicelo> jonwil needs it
Dec 06 20:20:07 <Win7Mac> if not, that'd indeed be quite pointless
Dec 06 20:20:31 <Win7Mac> jonwil needs what?
Dec 06 20:20:35 <Sicelo> device
Dec 06 20:20:45 <Win7Mac> which?
Dec 06 20:20:50 <jonwil> My current N900 is having USB problems that I hope to resolve soon
Dec 06 20:21:04 <jonwil> I have a lead on someone who can hopefully do the USB repair
Dec 06 20:21:28 <Sicelo> Win7Mac: what other devices are available?
Dec 06 20:21:28 <KotCzarny> jonwil, if it succeeds i bet you can easily get another n900 with broken port and repair 
Dec 06 20:21:54 <jonwil> if I can get my current N900 working, I wont need another N900
Dec 06 20:21:59 <jonwil> My current one would be fine
Dec 06 20:22:10 <KotCzarny> jonwil, having devel unit is handy
Dec 06 20:22:11 <Win7Mac> Sicelo, nothing yet, we need a fundraiser for that
Dec 06 20:22:41 <jonwil> If this repair doesn't work then I need to look at what the next step is
Dec 06 20:23:12 <jonwil> but yeah in any case I have no idea what to clone next
Dec 06 20:23:19 <KotCzarny> jonwil, package to australia is ~20usd
Dec 06 20:23:36 <Win7Mac> jonwil, so yes, you need + deserve a device...
Dec 06 20:23:41 <jonwil> If anyone wants to suggest anything to clone, feel free
Dec 06 20:24:37 <KotCzarny> jonwil, there is a page for that?
Dec 06 20:24:53 <DocScrutinizer51> jonwil: )next step) ... is contacting me in a query, around or after xmas
Dec 06 20:24:56 <jonwil> there are too many packages left, its hard to know what is worth cloning or not
Dec 06 20:25:59 <KotCzarny> calendar maybe
Dec 06 20:26:01 <jonwil> anyhow, tomorrow I will know if my current N900 is fixable or not
Dec 06 20:26:15 <KotCzarny> quite a few people look for a way to synch it
Dec 06 20:26:27 <jonwil> There are already efforts to replace calendar
Dec 06 20:26:35 <jonwil> plus I have no interest in it myself (dont use it)
Dec 06 20:27:14 <Sicelo> qalendar is almost 100% clone+upgrade of stock calendar
Dec 06 20:27:34 <KotCzarny> sicelo, can it synch with popular *davs ?
Dec 06 20:28:32 <Sicelo> no. works basically exactly the same as stock. so simplest synch is activesync
Dec 06 20:30:09 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: i'd say sync is not really a calendar 'problem' ... as one will also want/need to sync contacts, etc. there are specific sync solutions
Dec 06 20:36:50 <Sicelo> i would like my N900 to 'get' Internet from my old phone via bluetooth. if you know a working/simple guide to achieve this, pleas share.
Dec 06 20:37:22 <Sicelo> meantime i'm researching on tmo, although most of the threads are more on N900 supplying internet connection
Dec 06 20:37:38 <KotCzarny> hmm, i would look for generic bluez instructions
Dec 06 20:37:42 <KotCzarny> PAN etc
Dec 06 20:38:13 <KotCzarny> does n900 have such modules?
Dec 06 20:38:30 <freemangordon> iirc, yes
Dec 06 20:38:40 <KotCzarny> then it should be doable
Dec 06 20:38:43 <DocScrutinizer51> hi freemangordon 
Dec 06 20:38:54 <freemangordon> though it is not PAN, but NAP(?)
Dec 06 20:39:01 <freemangordon> or something similar
Dec 06 20:39:03 <KotCzarny> O.o
Dec 06 20:39:06 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: hi
Dec 06 20:44:31 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: according to the posts/google, there should be a bluetooth dun "client" application somewhere. but can't find it. prolly disappeared out of repos in some mysterious way
Dec 06 20:44:51 <KotCzarny> it couldnt disappear
Dec 06 20:45:05 <KotCzarny> unless the whole repo went away
Dec 06 20:46:47 <KotCzarny> https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN
Dec 06 20:48:29 <KotCzarny> and https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN sepcifically
Dec 06 20:50:35 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: found it ... seems it was never in official repos, but in matan's private repo (which is still available)
Dec 06 20:50:49 <Sicelo> http://my.svgalib.org/~matan/repo/binary
Dec 06 20:50:51 <KotCzarny> doc mirrored matan's repo
Dec 06 20:50:52 <KotCzarny> afair
Dec 06 21:37:19 <Petros> hello everyone!
Dec 06 21:38:08 <Petros> i am a computer science student and i just got my n900
Dec 06 21:39:11 <Petros> i want to learn how to port stuff like linux distributions to this device
Dec 06 21:39:22 <Petros> how should i get started?
Dec 06 21:39:43 <Petros>  
Dec 06 21:41:31 <Wizzup> stick around, can answer later
Dec 06 21:42:12 <DocScrutinizer51> reflash, get muarf repos, get CSSU
Dec 06 21:43:40 <DocScrutinizer51> and congrats
Dec 06 21:52:00 <Petros> ill try to stick around :P
Dec 06 21:53:01 <Petros> if my battery runs dry ill be back in a few days ;)
Dec 07 00:09:11 <jonwil> Freemangordon: ping
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 07 02:59:58 2015