**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 15 02:59:58 2015 Dec 15 04:30:41 Oksanaa: front one? yes. rear one, no. Dec 15 04:43:55 Rear one. To be fair, I was taking like 200+ photos+videos in a single day, two days in a row Dec 15 04:44:59 Sicelo: ^ To be fair, tint is only strong at -1 or -2 exposures. And subject is unusual: bright slide projected onto a darkly-shadowed white wall Dec 15 04:52:17 * Oksanaa goes to change battery Dec 15 09:56:23 anyone here with access to an exchange server with owa enabled? can any of the browsers for N900 open/browse OWA reasonably fine? Dec 15 10:00:37 meaning .. at least to open mail... Dec 15 10:05:25 hmm, this might finally be a reason for me to install Thunderbird on my home pc .. for the Outlook connector. At work we didn't have OWA enabled for a long time, only EAS (which requires provisioning). OWA enabled now though Dec 15 10:44:00 moin :) Dec 15 10:52:02 Too bad it looks like Thunderbird may no longer exist going forward Dec 15 10:54:53 hehe, true Dec 15 10:56:08 erk! Dec 15 11:11:49 do you think icedove will survive? Dec 15 11:17:40 zGrr: no problems uning icedove ? Dec 15 11:17:43 zGrr: wheres the problem? Dec 15 11:19:30 enyc: i have no problem with icedove whatsoever. Dec 15 11:21:04 i just wonder what sort of maintainer for icedove/thunderdird would do to sort out maintenance going forward better =) Dec 15 11:21:28 enyc: i even prefer the blue pidgeon icon. Dec 15 11:21:37 enyc: my question was rather about long-term future of the project. Dec 15 11:22:03 zGrr: one wonders =) Dec 15 11:22:29 zGrr: i've seen various attempts to integrate things, trustedbird project, etc.... wonder where it is going ! Dec 15 11:22:46 some sanity has happened, FINALLY the 'extra folder columns' became built-in.... Dec 15 11:39:08 enyc: it is increasingly difficult to believe in sanity in a world that created and implemented systemd. Dec 15 11:39:38 * KotCzarny removed systemd from his armbian-jessie yesterday Dec 15 11:39:44 so far it works Dec 15 11:46:24 i'm afraid, i might be switching back to slackware one day... Dec 15 11:48:43 why not a typewriter then :E Dec 15 11:49:27 Sicelo: what about Light version? not working? Dec 15 11:50:01 KotCzarny: armbian coo not comp across that before Dec 15 11:51:19 enyc: syntax parse error, what? Dec 15 11:53:10 one of my workmates is still using slackware right from its humble beninning. Dec 15 11:53:22 zgrr: im using slackware since 4.0 Dec 15 11:54:07 KotCzarny: sorry... i was just showing interest and noting i've not comp across 'armbian' before Dec 15 11:54:37 enyc, me neither, but i bought me lamobo-r1 and had to install some linux Dec 15 14:58:41 totalizator: light what? Dec 15 14:59:13 Sicelo: last time I checked OWA was ok on n900 Dec 15 14:59:21 thanks :) Dec 15 14:59:30 will check again right now Dec 15 15:01:35 yep, seems fine Dec 15 15:02:03 thanks. will pursue this with the IT guys here Dec 15 15:02:06 ofc it is tricky to use it on such a small display Dec 15 15:02:22 true. i expect that Dec 15 15:03:05 Sicelo: but why OWA? modest is ok with exchange Dec 15 15:03:15 provisioning.. :( Dec 15 15:03:27 actually it works surprisingly well Dec 15 15:03:44 and no SMTP+IMAP/POP enabled on the server. Dec 15 15:03:45 ask your IT guys to disable it for that particular accont Dec 15 15:04:10 they complain about security policy .. i tried Dec 15 15:04:12 this is what our IT guys did for me Dec 15 15:04:57 i'll retry with them Dec 15 15:04:59 you can tell them to shove that policy... you know where Dec 15 15:05:13 haha Dec 15 15:05:21 they say shove N900 there :p Dec 15 15:05:40 if you use modest, you'll also have calendar integration and whatnt Dec 15 15:05:53 i can't connect to the WiFi .. spent days asking, proving, etc. in the end i just had to use wpa_supplicant Dec 15 15:06:25 BTW what is that for thinderbird? Dec 15 15:06:59 *thunderbird Dec 15 15:07:08 connects via OWA and makes it appear native in thunderbird Dec 15 15:07:30 i've recently read about EWS .. may want to purse that path further Dec 15 15:07:40 why not use exchange plugin? it is paid, but well, 10 euros/year is not that much Dec 15 15:08:09 where? you mean thunderbird? Dec 15 15:08:12 yes Dec 15 15:08:25 i'll look at it too :) Dec 15 15:08:44 gimme a minute to check how was it called Dec 15 15:08:56 i basically gave up .. but interest rekindled now that there's this about OWA .. so will look at tis stuff again Dec 15 15:09:23 the best thing is to make your exchange admin to enable imap at the server. Dec 15 15:09:38 they don't want to :) Dec 15 15:10:17 they usualy don't want to do that. they are evil bastards motherfuckers. Dec 15 15:10:19 zGrr: international organization .. i'm in insignifacant africa, with insignificant N900. network is controlled from USA Dec 15 15:11:33 they were probably told at one of microsoft brainwashing sessions never to do that. Dec 15 15:11:48 zGrr: I though to so as well, but started after using exchange with modest, I was pleasantly surprised Dec 15 15:11:59 *after started Dec 15 15:12:10 and you know what happens when you start asking too much .. they start watching your every move as if you want to hack their network Dec 15 15:12:21 the only bad side is the speed Dec 15 15:12:26 yeah. you were brainwashed too. Dec 15 15:12:30 it takes ages to download an attachment Dec 15 15:12:54 it is not slow as such. Dec 15 15:13:06 zGrr: no, keep in mind I put ubuntu on my corporate laptop and I am in position to keep it that way :) Dec 15 15:13:08 webmail ftw! Dec 15 15:13:17 also, they removed provisioning for my account ;) Dec 15 15:13:19 (but the simple one, not overloaded js hell) Dec 15 15:13:42 now ays.. webmail sucks Dec 15 15:13:52 +1 Dec 15 15:14:12 it has typically moron admins, who don't have a clue how to make exchange to behave properly. Dec 15 15:15:17 the only "problem" I have with that setup is that I have to login to OWA from time to time to change my AD password ;) Dec 15 15:15:30 i have competent admins on site and our 40k+ server behaves well and is responsive. Dec 15 15:15:46 zGrr: lucky you Dec 15 15:16:05 but they are just as evil as other microsoft zombies. Dec 15 15:16:18 no, i am not lucky. Dec 15 15:16:19 "competent admin" is a kind of animal rarely to be seen Dec 15 15:16:56 i was made to switch to windows on monday. i am not lucky at all. Dec 15 15:17:16 just run virtualbox or something on it? Dec 15 15:17:21 in fullscreen mode Dec 15 15:17:57 zGrr: what for (windows)? corporate policy? Dec 15 15:18:30 in $bigcompany I was forced to keep windows as main os as well Dec 15 15:18:32 at* Dec 15 15:18:40 perverted network admins "modernized" the infrastructure so i cannot connect anywhere from anything else than windows. Dec 15 15:19:08 I eventually installed debian in vbox and do pretty much everything from there Dec 15 15:19:16 :) Dec 15 15:19:34 switches wouldn't get me through if i'm not windows. Dec 15 15:19:42 weird, I have no problem connecting to whatever I need to from my linux (smb, RDP, what else) Dec 15 15:19:49 cant you mangle packets? Dec 15 15:19:53 WHAT?!? Dec 15 15:20:04 ours control what software you run .. they run audit often Dec 15 15:20:09 i can investigate. Dec 15 15:20:18 those guys are crazy? Dec 15 15:20:38 802.1x+whatever windows-specific/proprietary auth protcole, probably Dec 15 15:20:52 and/or with windows domain check Dec 15 15:21:10 zGrr: which country is that, to remember to keep away? Dec 15 15:22:06 even my ip phone (separate with it's own mac) stops working and gets disconnected when i boot my desktop pc to linux. Dec 15 15:22:06 or it is $bigcompany Dec 15 15:22:08 or running windows on vm and making it acting as a proxy Dec 15 15:22:25 KotCzarny: that'd be a bit tricky, but yeah Dec 15 15:22:27 zgrr, maybe its just a simple dhcp check Dec 15 15:22:31 fscking son of the prostitute. Dec 15 15:23:11 try enabling firewall and static ip (or making dhcp request disguising as windows) Dec 15 15:23:21 no probs with dhcp i can connect to it an get proper ip assigned. Dec 15 15:23:29 I highly doubt it's just dhcp :) Dec 15 15:24:27 maybe admins are just eveils and specifically disable connectivity when dhcp request isnt windowsish Dec 15 15:24:59 and portscan Dec 15 15:25:05 thats why firewall Dec 15 15:25:10 much as i hate MS myself, for enterprise "control" .. it's unbeatable if you're a control freak (which is what MS admins usually are, haha) Dec 15 15:25:38 sicelo, i bet you linux/unix is also powerful at that Dec 15 15:25:39 ;) Dec 15 15:25:58 maybe even more because you can easily write your own apps Dec 15 15:26:32 zgrr, they might also check if the machine just connecting is running windows services Dec 15 15:26:45 bencoh: you're right. that is 802something proprietary auth protocol crap. Dec 15 15:26:54 :) Dec 15 15:26:56 not really .. MS has made it their business for years. we don't have that much control in linux .. not yet. of course we could have it Dec 15 15:27:01 KotCzarny: ^^ Dec 15 15:28:00 freemangordon: it's in poland. not worth coming here. at least for the time being. Dec 15 15:28:15 zGrr: next step is "how do I retrieve the fucking certs / creds / tokens" :) Dec 15 15:28:23 zgrr, i thought you were in .de Dec 15 15:28:33 (and/or protocol, if it really is a custom implem) Dec 15 15:28:52 it could well be eap/peap/standard stuff Dec 15 15:28:56 tiny vm with proxy could solve the problem Dec 15 15:29:08 kot: sometimes i use de ip, sometimes i use uk one. Dec 15 15:29:40 zGrr: yeah, too cold for my taste :) Dec 15 15:30:34 freemangordon: it's too cold for me too. Dec 15 15:32:20 freemangordon: so we have small-time fascist admins here, small-time fascist managers and even small-time fascist government recently. Dec 15 15:32:34 :) Dec 15 15:32:43 Hiltler risen from the dead Dec 15 15:32:44 come here (Bulgaria), we have a couple of cold months during the winter, but it is ok for the rest of the year :). Salaries for developers are pretty much ok (>800 euros for junior with no experience), esp compared with the life standard :) Dec 15 15:33:01 zgrr, lets not go into politics, its the dumpster Dec 15 15:34:35 whatever. it's not that bad, since you don't get fired for using linux and don't get to jails for talking politics. unlike some other places, i know. Dec 15 15:34:49 hehe Dec 15 15:40:15 Sicelo: it is exquilla (the plugin). There are some politics around it AFAIK, but it works Dec 15 15:47:58 i think, there is quite usefull application that can connect to exchange server using owa protocol and acts as a imap server. some of my mates were using it. Dec 15 15:49:43 freemangordon: i've heard some good things about working in bulgaria. Dec 15 15:51:19 well, it is ok if you work for a $bigorg or as a developer. For the rest it is not ok. Dec 15 15:52:51 But in SW business it is really sweet, lots of people left bulgaria for the last ~15 years and those who remain are treated very carefully :) Dec 15 15:53:15 freemangordon: they told me that if the project manager tells you to do some stupid things you can opelnly laught it out and even would be allowed to do the things properly, which is not that common elsewhere. Dec 15 15:54:47 oh, yes, PMs are usually to take the dirty part of the work (mails, phone calls, meeting) but they are not in charge of "execution". They act more like assistants than managers Dec 15 15:55:26 those who "manage" are usually engineers, not real PMs Dec 15 15:56:55 Actually you can even tell your "boss" he wants you to make something stupid and refuse. Or rather propose a way to do it better. Ofc it depends on the company, but usually devs are listened to Dec 15 15:57:27 toldya, devs become to rare to lose one Dec 15 15:58:28 I guess it depends on the kind of "dev" as well Dec 15 15:58:32 sure Dec 15 15:58:41 (you're not a web/frontend/html "developer" ;) Dec 15 15:58:42 I don;t talk junior devs here Dec 15 15:59:48 it depends on the size of the company too, but I guess it is not different from elsewhere Dec 15 15:59:58 i will definitely consider bulgaria in my future endeavours. :) Dec 15 16:00:01 probably not that much Dec 15 16:00:14 (different from other countries) Dec 15 16:00:38 ymmv for that kind of things :) Dec 15 16:00:55 zGrr: I am looking for developers right now, consider it if you plan to move in the next couple of months :D Dec 15 16:01:14 haha Dec 15 16:02:14 not in the next couple of months. i still have some projects to finish Dec 15 16:02:44 offtopic, building crosscompiler (gcc) for distcc is pita Dec 15 16:03:01 simple --host/--target don't cut it out Dec 15 16:03:14 talking about gcc - could someone try to build gcc for SB? Dec 15 16:03:41 like 4.9 or so Dec 15 16:03:44 hmm, which gcc and what do you mean by "for SB"? :) Dec 15 16:03:58 bencoh: >=4.9 Dec 15 16:04:04 for SB I mean debs Dec 15 16:04:08 build a cross x86->arm gcc and have it play nice with SB? Dec 15 16:04:09 freemangordon: i thought you've built 4.7.2 for thumb, or you just used ready made package? Dec 15 16:04:48 KotCzarny: 1. it is not packaged and 2. it was not me to build it but some UK guy I forgot the nick of Dec 15 16:05:08 freemangordon: humm, still, it was fully functional Dec 15 16:05:17 cant we track him down and pinpoint his location? :D Dec 15 16:05:18 some slackware or other exotic distro guy Dec 15 16:05:38 KotCzarny: yes, it is, but it is from 2012 Dec 15 16:05:40 (search and dest....err no, not that far) Dec 15 16:06:16 latest produce even more optimized code Dec 15 16:06:24 for ARM that is Dec 15 16:06:36 freemangordon: is it different than "just building a crosscompiler and .deb packages"? Dec 15 16:06:40 wouldnt mind hardfp for everything Dec 15 16:06:47 bencoh: yes, it is Dec 15 16:06:48 (binutils, mpfr, gcc, the usual stuff) Dec 15 16:06:58 freemangordon: in which way? :) Dec 15 16:07:10 you do that, but you have to consider that all those should be statically linked Dec 15 16:07:18 ah Dec 15 16:07:20 also, glbc is very old Dec 15 16:07:35 you need to provide the correct root and whatnot Dec 15 16:07:40 hmm, I'm not too worried about glibc, but dunno Dec 15 16:08:03 you should be, as glibc headers are part of the toolchain ;0 Dec 15 16:08:06 I'm more worried about gcc being written in C++ nowadays Dec 15 16:08:06 * ;) Dec 15 16:08:26 (a subset, but still) Dec 15 16:09:36 freemangordon: wait, are we talking about replacing glibc as well? Dec 15 16:09:37 last time i tried to hack native gcc into scratchbox i've discovered how deeply it cheats and overrides things Dec 15 16:09:52 or are you talking about libgcc/stdc++ Dec 15 16:10:34 what I talk is that glibc headers are part of the toolchain and you must include SB headers/libs in the newly built toolchain Dec 15 16:10:56 while compiling it from the host OS Dec 15 16:11:01 freemangordon: having howto could save some gray hair later Dec 15 16:11:04 and that's tricky Dec 15 16:11:22 libc6-dev in SB? Dec 15 16:11:41 KotCzarny: there are(were) some instructions around the inet Dec 15 16:12:11 freemangordon: havent found any for maemo/sb to create new gcc pkg Dec 15 16:13:34 http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/toolchain.html#AEN85 Dec 15 16:14:27 diablo era Dec 15 16:14:35 or even chinook Dec 15 16:15:03 here's another one http://henkjan.net/?page_id=355 Dec 15 16:17:57 while at that, i wouldnt mind native gcc packages Dec 15 16:18:32 what for? running gcc under qemu wouldn't be fun Dec 15 16:19:01 for building single packages i can wait (and do it on device) Dec 15 16:19:18 and yes, i've tried running native gcc under qemu Dec 15 16:19:41 (i even hacked current qemu in place of the old sb one) Dec 15 16:19:51 why do they all want to build on device *sigh* Dec 15 16:20:15 bencoh, because having native gcc + gcc could make it quite fast Dec 15 16:20:25 s/+ gcc/+ distcc/ Dec 15 16:36:07 oh, wow, my gcc crossdev just built, wonder if it works Dec 15 16:56:32 http://preshing.com/20141119/how-to-build-a-gcc-cross-compiler/ Dec 15 16:56:56 pretty nice guide for creating toolchain from scratch (though i only need gcc for xdev distcc) Dec 15 17:52:35 i love my banana (r1) ! Dec 15 17:53:07 pity it doesnt have sleep states to reach ~10-30mA Dec 15 17:53:17 would make a perfect portable Dec 15 17:54:43 imagine: wifi, sata, 5x gigabit eth, touchscreen, 8000mAh battery! Dec 15 18:37:54 woo-hoo, i have working distcc for arm compilation Dec 15 20:50:12 I remember, there was not only scratchbox based sdk, but filesystem, tar file, which could be unpacked, and then it would be possible to chroot there with binfmt_misc enabled. Dec 15 20:50:32 does anyone remember the file location? Dec 15 20:51:33 could it be scratchbox2 ? Dec 15 20:54:10 no no... I remember that was only filesystem tarball. may be mad. from scratchbox filesystem. Dec 15 20:54:24 the reason was i guess to not download those sdk installers. Dec 15 20:54:48 so you mean prepared sb archive? Dec 15 21:01:20 norayr: what you're referring to really sounds like the way sb works Dec 15 21:02:05 you have to download tarballs Dec 15 21:03:22 hm. i remember i was installing maemo sdk by using installers downloadable from maemo.org or from nokia site. however there was some third party distributed "image" which i could use by chrooting, or yes, by using scratchbox may be. Dec 15 21:03:38 i believe it'll work even without scratchbox, just by chrooting with binfmt_misc. Dec 15 21:03:45 which basically what scratchbox does. Dec 15 21:04:09 sb does much more than that Dec 15 21:04:41 and where to get those tarballs? Dec 15 21:04:51 ~scratchbox Dec 15 21:04:54 we dont know what you are referring to Dec 15 21:04:57 hmm Dec 15 21:05:01 wait Dec 15 21:05:05 norayr: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Manual_Installation ? Dec 15 21:05:13 infogrmpf Dec 15 21:05:19 hmmm Dec 15 21:05:22 let me see. Dec 15 21:05:32 i was searching for what i mean yesterday evening but did not find. Dec 15 21:05:39 http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/stable/ Dec 15 21:06:01 ./tarball , maybe Dec 15 21:06:37 bencoh: i believe i was searching for those rootstrap files. Dec 15 21:06:40 thank you very much. Dec 15 21:06:46 freemangordon: thank you too. Dec 15 21:06:47 yw Dec 15 21:07:03 ~botsnack Dec 15 21:07:14 are there such rootstrap files for diablo too? Dec 15 21:07:15 she is dead :( Dec 15 21:14:38 freemangordon: this file https://github.com/community-ssu/libconnui-dev/blob/master/libconnui.pc is wrong: it tells that every one file should be linked with -lconnui -lconnui_cell -lconbtui -lconnui_iapsettings Dec 15 21:14:51 it needs to be fixed, splitted into more *.pc files Dec 15 21:15:08 becase we are adding unused link dependences Dec 15 22:00:18 hello can someone remove my ip from antispam list Dec 15 22:00:27 i cant access talk.maemo Dec 15 22:28:55 ~unbanip Dec 15 22:29:23 damn bot Dec 16 00:30:27 sorry i fell asleep Dec 16 00:30:34 is my ip unban now? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 16 02:59:59 2015