**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 12 02:59:58 2016 Feb 12 07:41:37 DocScrutinizer05: Does deadbeef use COW? ;-) Feb 12 07:49:22 My Socket A tower computer that has been used since year 2002 seems to be more reliable than my Socket T (LGA775) tower computer that has been used since year 2009. :-/ Feb 12 07:49:43 and more slow at that Feb 12 07:54:29 Neither computer still has the original hardware configuration even though they both still have at least the original case, motherboard, CPU. Feb 12 07:56:57 I do not think I have ever had a genuine IBM/Lenovo motherboard fail. Feb 12 07:57:18 well, its been 14 years Feb 12 07:57:27 electronic components can fail Feb 12 08:01:19 KotCzarny: I did not mean to imply that either of these computers has an IBM/Lenovo motherboard. The Socket A motherboard is from MSI and the Socket T motherboard is from Asus. Feb 12 08:02:14 doesnt matter, electronics are bound to entropy as everything else Feb 12 08:06:46 “[15:18:34] KotCzarny: I know what mSATA is. Which “controller chip issue” do you mean?” Time stamp is for America/Vancouver (Pacific time zone, UTC -8 hours). Feb 12 08:07:29 think about it: there has to be chip to convert sata signal into pata, right? Feb 12 08:08:59 KotCzarny: Yes. So what? Feb 12 08:09:04 but im happy with ~80MB/s transfers on my box because my x40 flies Feb 12 08:09:25 and i think part of the bottleneck is pata chip on laptop Feb 12 08:09:30 moin Feb 12 08:11:22 KotCzarny: So what is this “controller chip issue” you mentioned? Feb 12 08:11:58 just that, dont expect hundreds of megs of transfer Feb 12 08:14:10 KotCzarny: AFAIK, the theoretical maximum throughput for last-generation PATA (using UDMA transfer mode) is only 133 MB/s (or MiB/s?). Feb 12 08:14:36 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 udma6 Feb 12 08:15:05 Timing buffered disk reads: 230 MB in 3.00 seconds = 76.58 MB/sec Feb 12 08:15:15 Model=SAMSUNG SSD PM830 mSATA 32GB Feb 12 08:15:41 but its more than enough for a snappy x40 Feb 12 08:24:14 So, since I last asked months ago, has anyone made a fanless >=80686 notebook computer that uses the IBM Personal Computer-compatible BIOS instead of EFI (or at least EFI with CSM and ability to disable “Secure Boot” (sic)) and that has a proper/decent integrated display instead of Yet Another™ pathetic TN AMLCD panel? And that can boot and run from removable non-volatile memory? And that preferably has removable main memory? Feb 12 08:25:53 right up to the last requirement i was going to suggest the 2015 macbook Feb 12 08:28:14 kerio: You suggested the year 2015 MacBook the last time I asked. Feb 12 08:28:19 :D Feb 12 08:29:30 brolin, thinkpad x61t (tablets had ips/flexview afair) Feb 12 08:30:28 not sure if all models tho Feb 12 08:32:13 s/removable non-volatile memory/internal removable non-volatile memory/ Feb 12 11:07:53 aargh how much i hate yappari and whatsapp Feb 12 11:09:19 :> Feb 12 11:11:21 i'm on the brink of throwing it all out of the window Feb 12 11:19:43 :) Feb 12 11:19:49 textsecure or something more? Feb 12 12:31:57 ceene: what's up? or whatsapp? :) Feb 12 12:33:34 ceene: i already did Feb 12 12:33:43 fuck communicating over anything that isnt email or irc Feb 12 12:35:48 buZz: ceene is currently one of most respected devs, haha. because people do use yappari so much. some even ready to ditch N900 if yappari cannot be maintained :p Feb 12 12:36:20 not saying that's a good reason to keep working on it, or that other devs aren't popular ... Feb 12 12:36:39 ? Feb 12 12:36:50 i dont get your trail of thought Feb 12 12:37:57 if you or i quit whatsapp, only one (or two) persons affected. if ceene does, maybe 60 or more % N900 users.. Feb 12 12:38:49 good Feb 12 12:38:58 let them suffer of their centralized chat solutions Feb 12 12:39:41 lol. Feb 12 12:41:50 personally i'd be happy if i had to only use irc, but everyone i know looks at it with such wide eyes you'd think they saw a ghost Feb 12 12:49:25 sicelo, make them install pidgin or something with irc integrated and just coerce into it Feb 12 13:02:51 easier said than done hey. more than half of my family are using Ashas for example, and whatsapp is bundled in :) Feb 12 13:04:23 :) Feb 12 13:04:32 evil bundle power Feb 12 13:19:24 i had secretly hoped textsecure wouldn't be implemented in S40 whatsapp, but it is. if it wasn't, maybe whatsapp.inc would not push message encryption the way they have Feb 12 13:27:46 now people can't register Feb 12 13:27:59 there's some broken thingy that i've yet to discover Feb 12 13:28:15 at least they are not banned for being not able to register Feb 12 13:28:26 or are they? Feb 12 13:28:27 also, textsecure libs won't compile on fremantle_x86, so i'll have trouble debugging it Feb 12 13:28:44 nope, it's more low level than that, some ssl stuff Feb 12 13:28:52 so no bans Feb 12 13:48:42 Sicelo: tell thenm that's a new whatapp client that even doesn't need phone number and can run on PC without phone tethering Feb 12 13:48:57 ;-P Feb 12 13:54:00 DocScrutinizer05: i think that's one of the "problems" ... stuff like whatsapp/facebook, etc has allowed people to communicate wthiout needing to configure aything really. Feb 12 13:54:30 same reason that browsers have taken over all computing Feb 12 13:54:40 so the problem is 'the people' Feb 12 13:54:52 yes Feb 12 13:55:01 sisters, mothers :P Feb 12 13:55:29 and how do you fix them? you can't easily. you end up forced to 'lower your standards' so to speak :) Feb 12 13:55:41 not entirely true Feb 12 13:56:08 irc is almost 'no configure' Feb 12 13:56:19 and there is 'chatzilla' extension Feb 12 13:56:24 all clicky happy Feb 12 13:57:36 1. you look for a client among dozens of possibilities. 2. you choose a network among dozens too. 3. you find a server for the network ... Feb 12 13:58:57 sicelo, 1/ chatzilla, 2/ ircnet or freenode. 3 is part of the 2 and is usually round robin dns Feb 12 13:59:06 fwiw, i hate the fact that browsers are basically taking over everything. i still believe in proper irc lient, email client, rss reader, etc. but really, the vast majority is quite okay to have your firefox and nothing else Feb 12 13:59:39 KotCzarny: having got on Freenode, they find geeks, not friends :) Feb 12 13:59:59 that's the other problem Feb 12 14:00:54 curiously enough, on mobile phones every website insists that you install their app Feb 12 14:01:26 still usually a front-end to the website anyway (most) Feb 12 14:01:29 so in handheld devices most of the work ends up being done on the device because you're running an app that uses your storage space Feb 12 14:01:56 while on your computer which has larger memory, more computing power, etc, you end up using web based applications Feb 12 14:02:04 geeks can be (geeky) friends too Feb 12 14:02:07 it's quite nuts Feb 12 14:02:44 as for app mess, i still like console ones Feb 12 14:03:01 ie. my irc and message network is text based Feb 12 14:04:16 same here. even on N900, mutt+irssi, etc ;) Feb 12 14:05:41 + screen Feb 12 14:05:56 for the server, yes. Feb 12 14:24:05 Sicelo: guess how much I configured in my IRC client before joining first channel Feb 12 14:24:26 hint: freenode been in the presets already Feb 12 14:26:06 DocScrutinizer05: and how do you know who you want to talk to? Feb 12 14:26:30 compare that with "i just have your phone number and by magic your name appears on my screen and i can talk to you" Feb 12 14:26:57 how do you know in wattsapp? just because the fucking shit soies on you and everybody else Feb 12 14:27:23 spies even Feb 12 14:27:29 spys? Feb 12 14:27:33 a user doesn't care Feb 12 14:27:39 my mom just wants to talk with me Feb 12 14:27:58 the tell her you're ceene Feb 12 14:28:23 yeah, and when she wants to talk to her brother? Feb 12 14:28:32 you had to tell her your phone number to, no? Feb 12 14:28:36 or with her aunt who lives in another city? Feb 12 14:28:48 she has had my phone number since years now Feb 12 14:28:58 she hasn't changed her phone number ever Feb 12 14:29:06 oh well, she had your name even longer Feb 12 14:29:07 nor her brother nor her family Feb 12 14:29:42 so when her cousin with whom she doesn't speak much just wants to send her a photo of whatever Feb 12 14:29:45 she just does it Feb 12 14:29:50 honestly phonenumber. So 1980 Feb 12 14:30:19 yeah, not that it's the optimal thing, but since it's been around since 1980 and her phone number hasn't changed since before then, it's convenient Feb 12 14:30:59 what does she have to do, use the phone to call every person she knows and ask them which their IRC nick is? Feb 12 14:31:08 tzz, how's that a reason for requiring a *phonenumber* for a service that allows me to register with my clear name Feb 12 14:31:11 why would she do that if she can just use the phone number right away? Feb 12 14:31:56 now she has to keep two handles that identify everyone: the phone number and the nick, and what for? Feb 12 14:32:13 do i have to notify everyone whenever i decide to change my nick? Feb 12 14:32:25 what nick? Feb 12 14:32:29 i don't change phone numbers and i don't want to because i'd have to tell the new one to everybody Feb 12 14:32:42 i don't know who you are, joerg_rw Feb 12 14:32:46 you're just someone Feb 12 14:32:50 who may or may not be my son Feb 12 14:32:56 because you didn't give borth to me Feb 12 14:33:01 now I'm you Feb 12 14:33:10 hardly Feb 12 14:33:11 how shall I explain that to mem? Feb 12 14:33:21 do you think my mom cares? Feb 12 14:33:36 :) Feb 12 14:33:42 if my mom saw that Feb 12 14:33:46 she'd be calling the police Feb 12 14:33:56 thinking someone has kidnapped me, you, or killed both of us Feb 12 14:34:16 really, you can't compare the ease of use of whatsapp with irc Feb 12 14:34:34 you can't compare the evilness either Feb 12 14:34:56 my mom doesn't even know itt's evil, and to be honest, it's not so evil for her Feb 12 14:35:31 lots of people just shout at their phones thinking that since the other party is in another city the voice has to reach them Feb 12 14:35:42 I won't register to a service that already knows my name and address and all my potential contacts simly from spying on all my conatcts' phonebooks Feb 12 14:35:55 when I just tell them my *phonenumber* Feb 12 14:36:03 i understand that you won't Feb 12 14:36:09 but how many people do? Feb 12 14:36:12 how many people care? Feb 12 14:36:17 people in fact like that Feb 12 14:36:32 well, *I* care Feb 12 14:36:36 they do the least possible effort and they have instant communication with all the people they know Feb 12 14:36:48 like it or not, that's convenient, and people like that Feb 12 14:36:54 and Iprolly will bash up a few "friends" eventually Feb 12 14:37:41 I didn't gibve my phonenumber and address to them for them sharing it to fackebook or wattsapp Feb 12 14:39:22 you go and explain that to them Feb 12 14:39:35 I'll do, right away Feb 12 14:40:13 and then they'll continue using these evil thingies no matter what Feb 12 14:40:25 because they're convinient Feb 12 14:40:38 s/convinient/convenient/ Feb 12 14:40:39 ceene meant: because they're convenient Feb 12 14:41:08 yours is a fight I respect, but which has already been lost Feb 12 14:42:39 I'll just explain them why they get a good kick from me, for already having shared *my* data to wattsapp for *their* 'convenience' Feb 12 14:43:19 "but it's not a big deal, why do you care?" Feb 12 14:43:53 "i haven't shared my data with anyone" Feb 12 14:44:03 "i just installed whatsapp, i didn't even talk to you" Feb 12 14:44:51 if any of my so called friends is stupid enough to ask that, I'll hand him a link to some imgur snapshots so they'll learn how it feels when other people upload your data to the web Feb 12 14:45:27 but they don't even know they've uploaded any data of yours Feb 12 14:45:33 they've just installed whatsapp Feb 12 14:45:45 they happened to have your phone number in their phonebook Feb 12 14:45:45 if I can't already find some appropriate snapshot, I'll take one of me kicking their ass Feb 12 14:45:53 and that got shared Feb 12 14:45:58 but they didn't do anything Feb 12 14:49:59 actually I'm now tempted to register with watsap just to check what are my 'friends' Feb 12 14:50:56 you do understand that they don't even suspect there's something remotely wrong, right? Feb 12 14:54:42 is this my fault? Feb 12 14:54:52 not at all Feb 12 14:55:03 but i don't think it's theirs either Feb 12 14:55:45 :) Feb 12 14:55:51 ceene: +1 Feb 12 14:56:06 and yes, i wish the sitatuion was different. Feb 12 14:56:24 yeah, nobody is responsible for own stupidity Feb 12 14:56:33 it's not stupidity Feb 12 14:56:40 you do know how your car works? Feb 12 14:56:47 yes Feb 12 14:56:52 i don't believe you Feb 12 14:57:04 your problem, you don't know Feb 12 14:57:04 you don't even know how many lines of code there are in your car Feb 12 14:57:05 me Feb 12 14:57:22 you're sure about that? Feb 12 14:57:30 unless your car is from the 80s, as your phone number :) Feb 12 14:57:49 actually I can tell you exactly how many LOC were in my last car Feb 12 14:58:06 yes, it was from 1989 Feb 12 14:58:09 and can you tell me the same thing about the elevator at your home or at work? Feb 12 14:58:23 come on, we don't even have all the source of the n900 Feb 12 14:58:41 no, but we have the fineprint Feb 12 14:58:43 even your fridge now has microcontrollers on it Feb 12 14:58:48 and nobody gives a damn Feb 12 14:59:00 your fridge could have a microphone for all you know Feb 12 14:59:06 not really Feb 12 14:59:19 you can take these things apart, and many things are not IOT connected at all Feb 12 14:59:21 my fridge has microbes but no microcontrolers ;-D Feb 12 14:59:28 ceene, you know that your data got used when you get: 1/ mail spam, 2/ phone spam, 3/ email spam, etc Feb 12 14:59:52 if you want to explain id privacy, you explain it via spam Feb 12 14:59:52 KotCzarny: 4/ killed? :) Feb 12 15:00:03 wizzup: depends on the data stolen ;) Feb 12 15:00:20 KotCzarny: nobody cares about spam as long as the "gee meil thingy" removes it Feb 12 15:00:30 i don't care about electronic spam, i filter it out Feb 12 15:00:34 ceene, ever got phone spam? Feb 12 15:00:38 with the 'offers' ? Feb 12 15:00:39 i care a hell lot more about people leaving leaflets on my car Feb 12 15:00:43 that get wet when it rains Feb 12 15:00:49 or just random numbers disconnecting instantly? Feb 12 15:00:58 spam is bad Feb 12 15:01:17 sure, but does it mean my phone number has been leaked, or does it mean that someone has set up a wardialer and is just dialing random numbers of my area? Feb 12 15:01:18 at my car, those who leave the leaflets are the ones who get wet Feb 12 15:01:33 DocScrutinizer05: are you Chuck Norris? Feb 12 15:01:47 I am known by many names ;-P Feb 12 15:01:51 that'd explain a lot of things about your willingness to kick so many asses Feb 12 15:02:29 but my car can do such tricks without me helping on it Feb 12 15:02:51 ceene, anyway, there is a msg network 'gadu-gadu', where you get registered by some random number, and guess what, people exchange those numbers to find their friends, so its not the reson not to use irc Feb 12 15:02:54 just add a switch to windshield wiper and connect it to the water jet Feb 12 15:03:20 for added fun, connect the ignition to the wiper arm Feb 12 15:03:42 so dude gets wet at top and at bottom Feb 12 15:03:42 KotCzarny: and here we are on irc, the existence of alternatives doesn't mean whatsapp is simply convenient and easy to use Feb 12 15:04:06 ceene, yes, but guess what, its not about simplicity, but popularity Feb 12 15:04:16 it gets bundled etc Feb 12 15:04:24 KotCzarny: the value of the network is n^2 blah blah Feb 12 15:04:31 but somehow it got to reach a big N Feb 12 15:04:48 and it got to a certain point because it was easier than the alternatives Feb 12 15:04:52 and maybe a bit of luck Feb 12 15:04:59 and lots of ads Feb 12 15:05:21 I'm from a socialization context where people didn't even dare to write down phone numbers into a paper book Feb 12 15:06:03 so are my friends - at least those who actually got my phone number Feb 12 15:07:52 never saw a whatsapp ad in my region. Feb 12 15:08:24 _we_ were the people our parents warned us to ever talk to Feb 12 15:09:25 the hippies, punks, whatever. And we all knew one thing: don't ever disclose any info to authorities or public Feb 12 15:10:43 anyway, it also depends on the usage, if your friends are geeks, you go irc/ml, gamers have steam, work people have emails/gtalk/jabber Feb 12 15:11:01 WA is probably some hipster/teen movement that grew out of its cove Feb 12 15:11:05 we accepted fines of several 100s of bucks just because we didn't agree to tell the dude doing the census anything about us Feb 12 15:12:40 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Volkszählung_1987.jpg Feb 12 15:13:47 Es ist keine Datei dieses Namens vorhanden. Feb 12 15:13:48 Dateiverwendung Feb 12 15:14:03 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkszählung_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_1987 Feb 12 15:14:29 utf borkage Feb 12 15:15:05 disambiguation page i guess Feb 12 15:15:11 can't read german Feb 12 15:15:56 :) Feb 12 15:16:12 kind of 404 in wiki Feb 12 15:19:18 it's just a tiny bit of info that shows there's not a general "nobody cares" at least in my generation, when it comes to privacy and data Feb 12 15:20:17 today that may be true only for small sectors of the populace Feb 12 15:20:38 I can't educate the whole world, or just the youth of whole Germany, but I can expect those of my age are aware of the risks of 'computers' and read the fineprint of apps like watsap Feb 12 15:21:08 not this side :) Feb 12 15:21:19 particularly when they consider themselves my friends Feb 12 15:27:01 if it makes you any happy, yappari is really on the verge now Feb 12 15:27:02 :P Feb 12 15:28:12 it made me happy that yappari prolly is one of the very few watsap apps that didn't covertly share all phonebook data to the USA Feb 12 15:28:37 oh, but maybe it does! Feb 12 15:28:42 i'm sure you haven't read all the code :P Feb 12 15:28:56 I didn't - thus 'prolly' Feb 12 15:29:00 maybe i'm under CIA's paycheck Feb 12 15:29:37 i should offer myself maybe Feb 12 15:30:58 well, your data is already in the internet thanks to google Feb 12 15:30:58 maybe they'd help me know why the hell this thing now can't read a simple http reply Feb 12 15:31:11 btw I wouldn't read any code, since I also had to verify that the binary is actually built from that code and only that code. I'd simply run it under strace Feb 12 15:31:21 passive profiling is an amazing thing Feb 12 15:31:37 well, i don't really know for sure, either... i upload the code to the autobuilder Feb 12 15:31:54 autobuilder can build blobs too i guess Feb 12 15:31:56 maybe it takes all that time to be ready because someone manually inserts backdoors :) Feb 12 15:32:32 I *could* check that, but I won't ;-) Feb 12 15:33:05 particularly since it's not as trivial as it may sound, and would not help for changes with next version Feb 12 15:33:38 I trust in techstaff, particularly xes and warfare Feb 12 15:33:43 :-d Feb 12 15:33:48 :-d EVEN Feb 12 15:34:02 DANG!!! :-D friggin capslock Feb 12 15:34:23 also, it takes redhat size of company to install bugs that dont do anything on their own, but together make up nice holes for the nsa Feb 12 15:34:45 and mind you, redhat submits/manages a lot of core linux apps Feb 12 15:34:49 and libs Feb 12 15:35:06 *tedhnicaly* what I see via ssh login is not necessarily what devices see on repo download Feb 12 15:35:15 redhat has a lot of code in linux kernel aswell Feb 12 15:35:23 that too Feb 12 15:35:30 yes, kdbus, *spits* Feb 12 15:35:42 not just weird additions Feb 12 15:35:50 as if regular bugs werent enough Feb 12 15:35:52 also plain stuff, like schedulers etc Feb 12 15:36:33 in short, linux makes you safe from regular joes, but is totally open for real espionage Feb 12 15:36:59 KotCzarny: so, get started at porting plan9 Feb 12 15:37:04 I think the autobuilder and repo VMs are ubuntu Feb 12 15:37:05 well, I think I've solved the registration issue with yappari Feb 12 15:37:21 \o/ Feb 12 15:37:24 :) Feb 12 15:37:28 at least for now Feb 12 15:37:32 all it needed was a motivational talk? Feb 12 15:37:35 it's all a hack Feb 12 15:37:45 this thing needs a rewrite of big chunks Feb 12 15:37:59 i've got coderus' libwa, but it doesn't support qt4 yet, i'd have to backport it Feb 12 15:38:02 why the heck they don't publish a reference client implementation? Feb 12 15:38:06 but it already supports textsecure Feb 12 15:38:20 so i don't really know which way should i follow Feb 12 15:38:46 easier to maintain Feb 12 15:38:56 why 2 codepaths Feb 12 15:39:37 coderus' implementation is better, i think Feb 12 15:39:46 convince him to write lib agnostic to qt Feb 12 15:39:51 I thought they're so "we don't sell adds to you" and "we rather make money from your payments than from your data" - BWAHAHAHA Feb 12 15:40:03 but i'd have to change all of yappari to its api, which is similar but not equal to the actual one Feb 12 15:40:23 so any option is really a lot of work Feb 12 15:41:31 sounds like about time for yappari2.0? Feb 12 15:42:12 if i had the time and the QT knowledge it requires... Feb 12 15:42:22 i'm practically begging for someone who'd help me Feb 12 15:42:37 but nobody wants to, or knows, or cares or... Feb 12 15:42:47 i don't even use it much! Feb 12 15:43:30 I don't at all - not that I would be much of a help. Touched Qt development last time when it had a 3 at end Feb 12 15:44:02 well, it'd be quite strange if you, of all people, were to participate in maintaing whatsapp status :) Feb 12 15:44:14 around the time when twinklephone was 0.8 Feb 12 15:45:17 not really. Exploiting their infra with a FOSS client that isn't rogue would count as a good thing to do, in my book Feb 12 15:46:28 the more people use such decent client instead of the proprietary spyware, the less the whole service sucks Feb 12 15:47:41 I'm actually a fan of the idea of not spending money for SMS texting when you have GPRS data anyway. Well, at times at least. Feb 12 16:03:16 well, i'm just uploading new version to the autobuilder Feb 12 16:03:27 if you want to check it out that's the right moment! Feb 12 16:03:40 maybe this also buys as some time on the ciphering issue Feb 12 16:03:51 i'm too losing messages sent to groups Feb 12 20:54:01 Turns out the other package was another N900 .. guess no battery for the N97 then. Feb 12 20:54:40 * Maxdamantus wonders if de could cut a bit out of the case and put a BL-5J in. Feb 12 20:55:09 :> Feb 12 21:09:45 deklaratsiya Feb 12 21:11:00 deklariram, che tazi pratka ne syedyrxa predmeti i veshesva, neotpovariyashi Feb 12 21:11:08 * Maxdamantus wonders if he's transcribing that correctly. Feb 12 21:25:30 Why would any sane person want to actually USE a Nokia N97? Feb 12 21:27:47 Dunno if I want to use it, but it was $2. Feb 12 21:28:29 I just booted it with a BL-5J held in anyway and the touchscreen only sometimes recognises presses and they're usually in the wrong place. Feb 12 21:29:37 N97 has an inconvenient keyboard layout for me too. Feb 12 21:29:45 N97 mini seems alright, since it's the same as the N900. Feb 12 21:30:17 the left, down, right keys on my system are 'w', 'v', 'z' Feb 12 21:30:33 not enough space on the N97 to use Dvorak. Feb 12 21:57:48 I am about ready to give up, figuring out the microb-engine build process (and all the extra stuff the debian packaging does on top of it) and figuring out how to get it to compile the things I need it to compile is just too hard :( Feb 12 22:20:13 can you break down the problems? Feb 12 22:26:55 Basically I need to somehow get the standard microb-engine build process (i.e. go into the folder and do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot) to also compile certain tools (specifically the one that lets you manipulate the cert8.db file). Feb 12 22:28:35 I can manually compile the tools by going into nss folder and running make nss_build_all but that doesn't help, I need it to be built at the same time as the rest of microb-engine Feb 12 22:29:41 That or we need to figure out another way to remove the various bogus intermediate certificates from the cert8.db file as part of updating the set of root CA certicficates Feb 12 22:44:45 Can't you just add it to the build instructions somewhere? Feb 12 22:45:03 cd blah/nss && make nss_build_all Feb 12 22:46:19 debian/rules would probably be a reasonable place. Feb 12 22:52:35 Except that it would pollute the build tree with garbage (you cant run a full mozilla build AND a nss_build_all build in the same build tree) Feb 12 22:52:53 So I want to figure out how to do an out-of-tree nss_build_all build that keeps all the files out of the build tree in a separate place Feb 12 22:57:18 is that a problem? Feb 12 22:57:22 yes it is Feb 12 22:57:28 i think it gets deleted after compiling/packaging anyway Feb 12 22:58:17 how recent of a NSS are we talking here Feb 12 23:03:12 Usually with ./configure-based things you just invoke the configure script from a different directory, though I have a feeling Gecko explicitly disallows that. Feb 12 23:04:23 tar -xvf foo.tar.xz && mkdir foo-build && cd foo-build && ../foo/configure && make Feb 12 23:15:04 ditto'ing Maxdamantus' answer, that's usually how I build gcc Feb 12 23:15:41 gcc requires it afaik Feb 12 23:16:17 Some combination of glibc, binutils and gcc don't support building in the source directory, so you have to do it somewhere else. Feb 12 23:25:40 1: 2101, 2: 2104, 3: 2204 Feb 13 01:20:21 hello Feb 13 01:20:33 is the N900 the only device that runs maemo still nowadays? Feb 13 01:21:37 The N770/N800/N810 also run "maemo". Feb 13 01:22:21 yeah but those are ancient. i was just curious if there was some sort of newer hardware device that has come out since the N900 that can run maemo5 Feb 13 01:22:46 or is the N900 the latest hardware capable of running it? Feb 13 01:23:39 jrg: nope, the N900 is so far, the only device properly running all of Fremantle Feb 13 01:24:40 ah ok. that's a shame. really miss my N900. it was a great device but the hardware became so outdated Feb 13 01:24:52 it because a pain to run microb Feb 13 01:25:12 http://maxdamantus.eu.org/3n.jpg Feb 13 01:25:14 i was hoping after all this time maybe someone released something that it could run on like maybe an x86 device like a zen fone Feb 13 01:26:12 i loved the qwerty on the N900... too bad those are a thing of the past :( Feb 13 01:26:23 * Maxdamantus uses Dvorak on his. Feb 13 01:26:24 jrg: fwiw, browsing the internet nowadays is even more painful, thanks to all the Javascript. Feb 13 01:26:41 *browsing on the N900 Feb 13 01:26:49 Hurrian: oh i don't disagree with you there.. but using safari on ios vs using microb on an N900 Feb 13 01:27:03 i mean if the N900 had more power behind it .. it wouldn't be bad at all Feb 13 01:27:20 Like if it were a Neo900? Feb 13 01:27:23 I miss using the arrow keys to scroll long pages. Feb 13 01:27:25 but the small ram coupled with the "swap" just slowed it to a crawl towards the end where i finally gave up on it Feb 13 01:28:27 Maxdamantus: the Neo900 is still somewhat slow, IMO - it's about par with a N9/50 Feb 13 01:28:46 isn't that still better than an N900? :) Feb 13 01:29:15 it'd be miles faster than the N900, and you can say good bye to swap (finally!)... but it'd still be kinda on the slow side nowadays. Feb 13 01:29:53 neo900 has a resistive screen still? :) Feb 13 01:30:04 I don't think getting rid of swap is a good idea. Feb 13 01:30:31 unless everything is running in some sort of VM where memory usage can be tightly controlled, you really should still have swap. Feb 13 01:30:50 the neo900 looks interesting Feb 13 01:30:51 otherwise the OOM killer will eventually kill things. Feb 13 01:31:16 when is that thing due for release? Feb 13 01:31:35 I'm working on a teeny Freescale i.MX6 board, derived from the Novena - while still behind flagship phones, it's probably good enough. And purchasable in quantities less than $FEW_THOUSAND. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 13 02:59:58 2016