**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 06 02:59:58 2016 Mar 06 09:34:55 hmm screen brightness applet didn't fix problem with chess Mar 06 09:35:20 after some time without doing anything chess jumps back to start screen Mar 06 09:35:40 so there is something more there than just screen time Mar 06 09:35:58 i suppose it is closed and wont fix? Mar 06 10:19:56 ok. So chess follows screen saver time, but even if screen saver is disabled from brightness applet chess still goes by last know screen saver setting. Mar 06 10:20:24 maybe it has its own screen saver? Mar 06 10:25:28 could be, but it still respects user set screen saver Mar 06 10:25:44 if i set two minutes it stays two minutes Mar 06 10:26:02 hmm, just compile xgnuchess ? Mar 06 10:26:27 x/xgnuchess/xboard/ Mar 06 10:26:32 s/xgnuchess/xboard/ Mar 06 10:26:32 KotCzarny meant: x/xboard/xboard/ Mar 06 10:27:42 i guess magic happens in file osso_chess.so or something Mar 06 10:28:18 there was also dbus com.nokia.osso_chess but that didn't reveal anything Mar 06 10:28:31 Vajb: dbus monitor Mar 06 10:28:51 also found few ggonf settings but that was for level settings etc Mar 06 10:29:12 i ran mdbus2 against it but no joy Mar 06 11:17:37 ~closed Mar 06 11:17:37 it has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 Mar 06 11:40:56 so chess should be os Mar 06 11:41:05 um? Mar 06 11:42:01 second link Mar 06 11:42:12 sorry, my isp f*cked up bigtime Mar 06 11:42:32 my net is not stable, missed almost every message Mar 06 11:43:31 ah Mar 06 11:43:40 ~closed Mar 06 11:43:40 closed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 Mar 06 11:44:17 second link shows that osso-graphics-game-chess has opensource alternative or something like that Mar 06 11:44:30 xboard is a gui for gnuchess Mar 06 11:44:46 gonna investigate better when i get to bigger screen Mar 06 11:48:00 i've used it for a long time (when i was playing online chess) Mar 06 11:49:04 i think it should be playable on 800x480 Mar 06 11:49:48 i see Mar 06 11:50:53 actually i gave up with osso chess for quite some time and practised with my old travel chess computer and now i game back to osso. Mar 06 11:51:07 still got beaten tho Mar 06 11:51:19 but managed to stretch it to 46 moves Mar 06 11:51:27 pathetic, yes i know Mar 06 11:51:44 :) Mar 06 11:52:25 gonna practise some more weeks and make another try Mar 06 18:55:03 had to go back to twitter again ... any known working client for N900? Mar 06 19:29:47 i tried a couple that didn't work :/ Mar 06 19:29:53 but i don't remember the names, sorry Mar 06 19:41:27 :) Mar 06 19:41:56 do you think we'll still be able to use Yappari in 2017? Mar 06 19:42:19 doesn't look like it, at least for the moment Mar 06 19:42:28 yeah Mar 06 19:42:28 i was about to port yappari to use coderus' code Mar 06 19:42:34 but his is as S40 as mine Mar 06 19:43:10 S40? Mar 06 19:43:26 so i got disheartened about that as well, so for now no textsecure either Mar 06 19:43:32 L29Ah: nokia feature phone Mar 06 19:44:01 L29Ah: yappari fakes being a nokia s40 Mar 06 19:44:15 my sister in law had one of them Mar 06 19:44:20 and it's pretty cool in fact Mar 06 19:44:33 it has wifi, SIP Mar 06 19:45:07 pretty nice for an almost dumb phone Mar 06 19:45:22 probably it does 90% of what 90% people use Mar 06 19:46:07 ceene: have you talked to coderus about that? Mar 06 19:46:29 bencoh: not yet Mar 06 19:46:39 well, maybe you should :) Mar 06 19:46:42 i'm quite bored of yappari and all of this, to be honest Mar 06 19:46:53 yep Mar 06 19:46:55 yeah I kinda understand it Mar 06 19:48:10 i had lots of ideas and objectives, but when i get down to the code... just the idea of updating current code to libwa api looks like a draining task Mar 06 19:48:24 I'm afraid quite a significant amount of maemo users have been able to stick to n900 because of it, though Mar 06 19:48:28 so that'd be quite sad Mar 06 19:48:43 yep Mar 06 19:48:55 ceene: dont sailfish have an official client? Mar 06 19:49:04 are they gonna stop support for that one too? Mar 06 19:49:08 they've all been lucky that once scorpius stopped mainting yappari i took over Mar 06 19:49:33 official client? no, either coderus' or android's Mar 06 19:49:35 indeed Mar 06 19:49:38 sailfish? i think they are in trouble like the resot of us :) Mar 06 19:49:41 ah Mar 06 19:49:50 what about windows phone? Mar 06 19:50:09 they do have an official client Mar 06 19:50:28 cant we just identify as one? Mar 06 19:50:47 i guess, or as an android Mar 06 19:50:59 yeah, that one too Mar 06 19:51:05 but i assume the protocol is gonna have big changes on them Mar 06 19:51:09 maybe Mar 06 19:51:16 also, one cool thing about s40 was that it was written on java Mar 06 19:51:20 so we could just decompile it Mar 06 19:51:39 and look at an obfuscated version of the code, which was enough to understand the protocol Mar 06 19:52:02 that should probably still be possible with the android version (?) Mar 06 19:52:19 as far as i know, the apk includes a few .so libraries Mar 06 19:52:26 in which the protocol is implemented Mar 06 19:52:33 so they are not as easily looked at as the java version Mar 06 19:53:14 it works on x86 as well Mar 06 19:53:25 yes, they attach .so versions for several processors Mar 06 19:53:28 ah Mar 06 19:53:51 i guess the yowsup team will be able to continue their development Mar 06 19:54:03 i think they're at least a handful of quite competent developers Mar 06 19:54:13 they implemented textsecure even before whatsapp did :) Mar 06 19:55:04 if they can stay in the game "we" should be able to follow their work :) Mar 06 19:55:30 i think so Mar 06 19:55:41 if only yappari had a competent developer too... :) Mar 06 19:55:55 you dont look that incompetent :p Mar 06 19:56:05 because it's all done Mar 06 19:56:08 i don't really understand c++ Mar 06 19:56:10 nor qt Mar 06 19:56:23 i'm a pure c coder Mar 06 19:56:37 all these slots and signals just drive me mad Mar 06 19:57:04 it reminds me of when i started to learn how to code, it was on visual basic Mar 06 19:57:46 nah, a passionate coder would be now more useful than a competent one Mar 06 19:58:16 or someone to finally make an open source android-apps-running-thingy Mar 06 19:58:32 i don't quite get why that's so difficult to develop Mar 06 19:59:03 there was apkenv by thp .. don't know what happened :( Mar 06 19:59:14 ceene: well, I guess you could write a pure C lib and find a GUI dev Mar 06 19:59:25 I'm a pure C dev as well (and low-level, at that) Mar 06 19:59:28 Sicelo: apkenv isn't really an android app running thingy Mar 06 19:59:50 although, to be honest, that'd be the thing that could be used for whatsapp Mar 06 20:00:16 all it does is substitute the java parts (which you have to write) and invoke functions from a .so file Mar 06 20:00:19 that's why it runs games Mar 06 20:00:31 most games are real binaries in order to gain performance Mar 06 20:00:43 bencoh: i could do so many things... :P Mar 06 20:01:11 ah, i see. never could get it up and running in the first place, haha Mar 06 20:01:24 but in the end it's all very exhausting, and the benefits aren't that much clear to me now Mar 06 20:01:30 we're just buying time Mar 06 20:02:52 i was able to run world of goo Mar 06 20:02:55 it's quite fun Mar 06 20:03:03 and pretty Mar 06 20:03:39 and the soundtrack is excellent Mar 06 20:10:56 maintainer of yowsup received a cease and desis letter from whatsapp Mar 06 20:11:04 didn't seem to bother anyone Mar 06 20:11:09 but they know for sure it exists Mar 06 20:12:12 well, in Europe REing is legal for interoperability purposes Mar 06 20:12:34 yeah, i wouldn't give a damn either if they threatened me Mar 06 20:12:36 even when working around DRMs Mar 06 20:13:49 but it's reasonable to believe that once they stop supporting s40 they'll try pretty hard to stop us from continuing Mar 06 20:13:56 as they won't have to support those old devices Mar 06 20:14:18 they can do more complex things on android/iphones/windows devices Mar 06 20:17:44 https://github.com/davidgfnet/whatsapp-purple Mar 06 20:17:59 this is also quite active, it seems Mar 06 20:18:04 and also implements textsecure Mar 06 20:18:26 or will do soon Mar 06 20:21:32 maybe it'd be good to transform yappari to a libpurple gui Mar 06 20:22:04 or see if there's libpurple support for telepathy Mar 06 20:24:08 telepathy-haze Mar 06 20:24:15 Haze is a telepathy connection manager based on libpurple. Mar 06 20:24:15 This allow telepathy based application to connect all protocols Mar 06 20:24:15 supported by libpurple (pidgin). Mar 06 20:26:34 ceene: see the telegram thread Mar 06 20:26:43 (especially toward the end) Mar 06 20:27:41 there's some primitive gui? Mar 06 20:28:39 there's already a telegram libpurple for maemo Mar 06 20:28:58 i think it'd be feasible to integrate that with telepathy Mar 06 20:29:04 yeah, but we can't use too recent libpurple (or haze) because of glib version issues Mar 06 20:29:09 oh :( Mar 06 20:29:20 exactly Mar 06 20:30:41 we should get in contact with musk and convince him to use maemo on his tesla cars Mar 06 20:30:51 so he contracts a handful of people to update all of this for us :) Mar 06 20:31:45 i can't even convince people to switch to telegram because we don't have a full on client either Mar 06 20:31:53 so we really don't have a nice alternative Mar 06 20:36:11 https://np.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/496sn3/lets_clear_up_the_confusion_regarding_storage_in/ Mar 06 20:36:22 the overall storage of the device is sectioned off into many partitions (there are 42!!!) Mar 06 20:36:25 may goodness Mar 06 20:41:21 :) Mar 06 21:03:32 and guess how many of those partitions are non-free Mar 06 21:04:13 you however will learn a lot about how to build a decent free phone from studying that 42 partitions mess Mar 06 21:05:21 by reading through that story, I am not sure those 42 are really partitions or some of them are bind mounts Mar 06 21:05:51 or stuff like /proc /sys /sys/kernel/debugfs etc Mar 06 21:07:07 also, it makes sense to have persistent data ( the same what is known as CAL on N900) on a separate storage Mar 06 21:07:37 check Jolla phone, and weep Mar 06 21:07:55 no jolla phone around ;) Mar 06 21:09:29 without checking any actual android phone, I'm pretty sure they have a complete modem OS in closed encrypted partitions, and that is started first and runs Android OS as a 'VM' in modem OS host Mar 06 21:09:50 also, N900 storage is not that innocent as well, onenand is divided to 6 parts, emmc to 3, do the math yourself :) Mar 06 21:10:00 :nod:, I suspect the same Mar 06 21:10:10 but that still makes sense Mar 06 21:11:19 sure, particularly for the NSA ;-) Mar 06 21:12:27 well, if you aim a closed system, all this makes lots of sense. Esp when modem and MPU are on the same silicon Mar 06 21:12:41 from within Android yiu have as much control over what your device really does, as you have control over your PC from inside a VM Mar 06 21:12:49 :) Mar 06 21:15:02 Partitions - No. The devices in /dev/block literally number up to mmcblk0p42. I used DiskInfo. Link me: DiskInfo Mar 06 21:20:05 >>Android doesn't even break down your used storage properly - my used space + my free space never adds up to the total available space.<< sounds like a prety normal effect of a compressing filesystem like the ubifs we have on root partition Mar 06 21:20:50 at least if the sum of available + used > total Mar 06 21:21:03 i think the biggest problem regarding that is that they don't take into account some of the partitions, or even folders Mar 06 21:21:15 since they are not intended to be user accesible Mar 06 21:21:47 they do strange things and you can see "300MB free" and trying to install a 5MB app ends on "Insufficient disk space" Mar 06 21:40:35 yeah, I've read the article now, and I have to say Android storage is a bizarre nightmare Mar 07 00:24:05 ohmy, TimRikers internet or server went south - I hate it when that happens Mar 07 00:27:43 :-) fixed, it seems Mar 07 00:28:31 ~wb Mar 07 00:28:33 thx Mar 07 00:46:48 EHLO Doc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 07 02:59:58 2016