**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 01 02:59:59 2016
Jun 01 03:00:24 <klopsi-u3> send money now
Jun 01 03:10:04 <DocScrutinizer05> *sigh*
Jun 01 05:24:30 <klopsi-u3> why are there 171 people here
Jun 01 05:32:20 <DocScrutinizer05> why are you here?
Jun 01 05:32:41 <klopsi-u3> i am curious
Jun 01 05:32:54 <klopsi-u3> i use maemo
Jun 01 05:33:37 <DocScrutinizer05> you're close to a kickban for absolutely inappropriate XXX posts
Jun 01 05:35:39 <joga> "close"? ;p
Jun 01 05:39:56 <DocScrutinizer05> joga: everybody deserves a warning
Jun 01 05:41:11 <DocScrutinizer05> though in this particular case I was very tempted to instantly use the banhammer
Jun 01 05:52:04 <DocScrutinizer05> also klopsi-u3 didn't troll so far, so I guess that was some mishap
Jun 01 05:54:24 <klopsi-u3> DocScrutinizer05: 
Jun 01 05:55:08 <klopsi-u3> i got a legion of government assholes threatening me
Jun 01 05:55:22 <klopsi-u3> you are a mushroom
Jun 01 05:55:34 <klopsi-u3> i just stopped by to say hi
Jun 01 05:55:54 <freemangordon> bot?
Jun 01 05:55:59 <klopsi-u3> you are a pustule
Jun 01 05:56:03 <klopsi-u3> on my skin
Jun 01 05:56:05 <klopsi-u3> i pop you
Jun 01 05:56:22 <klopsi-u3> what?
Jun 01 05:56:38 <klopsi-u3> i am a descendent of Charlemagne
Jun 01 05:56:41 <klopsi-u3> i am a king
Jun 01 05:57:42 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: nope, see chanlogs which have him as a reasonable user since nov 2015
Jun 01 05:58:55 <freemangordon> hmm
Jun 01 05:59:34 <freemangordon> weird. maybe 
Jun 01 05:59:36 <DocScrutinizer05> now he's wasting his own time sending me query
Jun 01 06:00:06 <DocScrutinizer05> drunk, I guess. Or on dunno which drug
Jun 01 06:00:13 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 01 06:01:19 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/30997158
Jun 01 10:00:43 <bruce_lee> \(^_^)/ @all
Jun 01 10:02:49 <bruce_lee> I can't make yappari/whatsApp work on my nokia n900
Jun 01 10:03:03 <bruce_lee> is yappari working for you guys?
Jun 01 10:03:07 <KotCzarny> because WA is broken
Jun 01 10:03:25 <KotCzarny> latest news are always in yappari thread on tmo
Jun 01 10:03:59 <bruce_lee> what is "tmo"?
Jun 01 10:04:08 <KotCzarny> talk.maemo.org
Jun 01 10:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> yappari is broken
Jun 01 10:46:38 <jon_y> bruce_lee: it is dead
Jun 01 10:46:41 <jon_y> forever
Jun 01 10:46:48 <jon_y> get an iphone :)
Jun 01 10:47:11 <KotCzarny> jon_y: ceene gave up? or did i miss anything
Jun 01 10:47:31 <jon_y> KotCzarny: WA implemented end-to-end encryption
Jun 01 10:47:50 <jon_y> if someone broke it, sure, we'll have compatibility :)
Jun 01 10:48:01 <jon_y> *mandatory encryption
Jun 01 10:49:17 <KotCzarny> jon_y: yes, and ceene was working on it
Jun 01 10:49:32 <jon_y> still working on it?
Jun 01 10:49:50 <KotCzarny> jon_y: didnt see him giving up yet
Jun 01 10:50:04 <jon_y> huh I got the impression he stopped permanently
Jun 01 10:50:28 <KotCzarny> jon_y: link?
Jun 01 10:50:52 <jon_y> let me get that
Jun 01 10:52:05 <jon_y> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1503625&postcount=1397
Jun 01 10:52:57 <KotCzarny> jon_y: yeah, its a message about users not using yappari before he gets it working again and not to get banned
Jun 01 10:53:11 <KotCzarny> because WA bans just for a wrong client
Jun 01 10:53:20 <jon_y> yep
Jun 01 10:53:36 <KotCzarny> but he didnt say he definitely dropped yappari
Jun 01 10:53:58 <jon_y> I got the impression he meant something will replace it
Jun 01 10:54:05 <KotCzarny> nope
Jun 01 10:54:24 <KotCzarny> it will still be called yappari if he fixes encryption and protocol
Jun 01 10:54:47 <KotCzarny> and you can see clearly in his message about that
Jun 01 10:54:49 <jon_y> k
Jun 01 10:54:58 <jon_y> oh well, no rush
Jun 01 10:55:16 <jon_y> I've blocked most of my WA contacts anyway ;)
Jun 01 10:56:00 <jon_y> insipid trash coming through otherwise
Jun 01 10:56:09 <KotCzarny> hehe
Jun 01 10:56:41 <jon_y> I have no idea if facebook will be like that too if I do setup an account
Jun 01 10:56:52 <KotCzarny> coers those good contacts to switch to telegram or jabber
Jun 01 10:57:07 <jon_y> telegram?
Jun 01 10:57:19 <jon_y> that telegram with the marconi set?
Jun 01 10:57:27 <KotCzarny> nope, modern app
Jun 01 10:57:28 <KotCzarny> ;)
Jun 01 10:57:37 <jon_y> huh, tell me more
Jun 01 10:58:13 <KotCzarny> ask other former-yappers
Jun 01 10:58:19 <KotCzarny> i use only irc
Jun 01 10:58:28 <jon_y> jabber I know, but I doubt it will be easy to convince my friends to switch, since they have friends too that need convincing
Jun 01 10:59:32 <KotCzarny> quick google: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91888&highlight=telegram+client
Jun 01 11:00:04 <KotCzarny> but as i said, ask/google
Jun 01 11:00:44 <jon_y> ok, never heard of it
Jun 01 11:01:04 <KotCzarny> i think its one of the bigger im services
Jun 01 11:02:16 <jon_y> the service has a really generic name
Jun 01 11:50:18 <Vajb> jon_y: i use jabber, but no point since none other wont
Jun 01 11:50:37 <Vajb> i switched back to sms
Jun 01 11:51:12 <Vajb> now im that old grumby mofo who refuses to adopt new tech
Jun 01 11:51:51 <Vajb> but there is jabber client for android and probably for other os as well
Jun 01 11:52:30 <Vajb> i installed one to my tablet to see if it works and it does
Jun 01 12:06:48 <jon_y> Vajb: yeah well, friends are sending me pictures
Jun 01 12:07:03 <jon_y> and the service provider 3G doesn't work
Jun 01 12:26:57 <Vajb> for me they started showing them straight from their phone screen's
Jun 01 12:43:29 <jon_y> "3G service is not activated for this phone!"
Jun 01 12:43:34 <jon_y> oh well
Jun 01 12:43:39 <jon_y> I can live without mms
Jun 01 13:05:12 <kerio> rip mms
Jun 01 13:06:06 <ceene> jon_y: i haven't still given up, but i'm pretty near, to be honest
Jun 01 13:06:29 <jon_y> ceene: care to share some technical details? :)
Jun 01 13:06:30 <ceene> i got a french number from a fellow tmo user, so i'm using it to debug yappari
Jun 01 13:06:36 <ceene> sure
Jun 01 13:06:39 <ceene> there are two issues right now
Jun 01 13:06:48 <ceene> one is that i've gotten banned at least once just because
Jun 01 13:07:02 <ceene> the other one, that is make yappari completely useless
Jun 01 13:07:08 <ceene> is that i can't get it to work with the ciphering protocol
Jun 01 13:07:22 <jon_y> you found the cipher already?
Jun 01 13:07:24 <ceene> for some reason i'm not able to acquire encryption keys of receipients
Jun 01 13:07:51 <ceene> i've got an implementation that was supposedly working on sailfish
Jun 01 13:08:00 <ceene> it's also very similar/identical to the one that yowsup uses
Jun 01 13:08:09 <ceene> but there's something missing some place that i've yet to discover
Jun 01 13:08:19 <jon_y> the keys are unique to each user?
Jun 01 13:08:27 <jon_y> PGP style?
Jun 01 13:08:38 <ceene> yes, not only that but they're also session keys
Jun 01 13:08:44 <ceene> so they change from time to time
Jun 01 13:08:52 <jon_y> interesting
Jun 01 13:09:13 <jon_y> btw, are there any plans to make it work with the web interface?
Jun 01 13:09:21 <jon_y> it tells you to scan some QR code
Jun 01 13:09:22 <ceene> https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepaper.pdf
Jun 01 13:09:31 <ceene> no, not at all
Jun 01 13:09:36 <jon_y> ok
Jun 01 13:09:37 <ceene> i still got to make it simply work
Jun 01 13:09:46 <ceene> so no new functionality at all unless the basics start working
Jun 01 13:09:55 <jon_y> sure, I guess that can come later
Jun 01 13:10:40 <jon_y> ceene: is it expected that Yappari crashes a few times during normal operations?
Jun 01 13:10:53 <ceene> it is not expected for yappari to work at all
Jun 01 13:10:53 <jon_y> mysterious exits
Jun 01 13:11:08 <jon_y> I mean a few months back before the encryption kicked in
Jun 01 13:11:15 <ceene> so if it somehow works for you... you really should stop using it, as you will get banned sooner or later
Jun 01 13:11:29 <ceene> that's something that used to happen from time to time, yeah
Jun 01 13:11:39 <ceene> it was almost completely fixed, though
Jun 01 13:11:52 <jon_y> memory limitations?
Jun 01 13:11:53 <ceene> but if you missed some update it's very easy that you suffered from that, yes
Jun 01 13:12:01 <ceene> no, protocol mismatch
Jun 01 13:12:09 <jon_y> oh ok, that explains
Jun 01 13:12:29 <jon_y> since I don't update too often (or use yappari often)
Jun 01 13:12:51 <jon_y> only found out about it being broken a month or so
Jun 01 13:13:10 <jon_y> *a month or so ago
Jun 01 13:13:12 <ceene> lucky you then :)
Jun 01 13:13:45 <jon_y> yeah messages from busy muted contacts suddenly stopped :)
Jun 01 13:18:27 <jon_y> ceene: so, is there a way to check if you're banned without starting yappari?
Jun 01 13:29:50 <ceene> you can use yowsup
Jun 01 13:30:22 <ceene> yowsup-cli registration -m MCC -n MNC -p PHONE -C CountryCode
Jun 01 13:30:30 <ceene> it'll try to register your phone
Jun 01 13:30:42 <ceene> if you receive the sms, everything's okay
Jun 01 13:30:50 <ceene> that line is lacking -r sms  at then
Jun 01 13:30:54 <ceene> s/then/the end/
Jun 01 13:30:54 <infobot> ceene meant: that line is lacking -r sms  at the end
Jun 01 13:31:05 <ceene> if you're banned, yowsup will tell
Jun 01 13:31:16 <ceene> status=fail, reason=blocked
Jun 01 13:31:23 <ceene> or something like that
Jun 01 13:48:41 <jon_y> huh ok
Jun 01 13:48:51 <jon_y> thanks ceene 
Jun 01 13:49:21 <jon_y> I need to find out what the MCC/MNC values are
Jun 01 14:23:46 <jon_y> ceene: INFO:yowsup.common.http.warequest:{"status":"fail","reason":"no_routes","retry_after":3600,"sms_wait":0,"voice_wait":0}
Jun 01 14:23:50 <jon_y> no route?
Jun 01 14:40:39 <ceene> i don't know the reason for that
Jun 01 14:40:45 <ceene> it may be wrong mcc/mnc values
Jun 01 14:40:57 <ceene> you should wait however 3600 seconds before trying again
Jun 01 14:41:02 <ceene> or you may get banned if you're not already
Jun 01 14:52:32 <jon_y> hmm ok
Jun 01 14:54:12 <jon_y> ceene: does android/s40 matter?
Jun 01 15:16:35 <bruce_lee> is it possible to use yowsub to write and read wa-messages?
Jun 01 15:17:28 <ceene> jon_y: it shouldn't
Jun 01 15:17:30 <ceene> bruce_lee: it should
Jun 01 15:17:44 <jon_y> ok, still getting no_routes
Jun 01 15:18:09 <jon_y> ceene: where do you store the password on the n900?
Jun 01 15:20:39 <ceene> /home/user/.config/scorpius/yappari.conf
Jun 01 15:22:16 <jon_y> thanks
Jun 01 15:36:42 <L29Ah> how do i SYNC THE TIME FUCKING NOW?
Jun 01 15:36:49 <L29Ah> maemo's gsm syncing thing doesn't seem to work
Jun 01 15:36:55 <L29Ah> openntpd doesn't seem to work
Jun 01 15:36:56 <KotCzarny> sntp -s pool.ntp.org
Jun 01 15:37:08 <L29Ah> `date` is too dump to eat http's timestamp
Jun 01 15:37:26 <L29Ah> E: Couldn't find package sntp
Jun 01 15:37:42 <KotCzarny> it should be in ntpd package
Jun 01 15:37:59 <L29Ah> E: Couldn't find package ntpd
Jun 01 15:38:18 <KotCzarny> you can also try rdate, but not all servers enable this older protocol
Jun 01 15:39:05 <ceene> ntpdate
Jun 01 15:39:11 <L29Ah> E: Couldn't find package rdate
Jun 01 15:39:23 <L29Ah> E: Couldn't find package ntpdate
Jun 01 15:39:26 <KotCzarny> hehe, just grab etch package and unpack ntpdate from there
Jun 01 15:39:49 <sunshavi> this works for me 'sudo rdate -s ptbtime1.ptb.de'
Jun 01 15:39:53 <KotCzarny> you will probably need one additional tiny package
Jun 01 15:40:24 <L29Ah> maemo is dead :<
Jun 01 15:40:35 <ceene> http://paste.debian.net/713217
Jun 01 15:40:41 <KotCzarny> no, its not
Jun 01 15:40:42 <ceene> maybe that
Jun 01 15:40:47 <KotCzarny> it's hacker's os
Jun 01 15:40:50 <ceene> but it requires gpsd
Jun 01 15:40:52 <L29Ah> -bash: gcc: command not found
Jun 01 15:41:15 <L29Ah> gentoo is hacker's os
Jun 01 15:41:16 <ceene> apt-get install easy-debian?
Jun 01 15:41:25 <L29Ah> and maemo is just a rotten debian
Jun 01 15:41:36 <ceene> time to go home!
Jun 01 15:41:52 <KotCzarny> l29ah, stop complaining and acting like a spoiled ubunter :P
Jun 01 15:42:04 <L29Ah> in gentoo everything just works ;P
Jun 01 15:42:34 <L29Ah> Wizzup: did you bring up a GUI btw? :]
Jun 01 15:43:06 <L29Ah> Wizzup: where can i read about your gentoo?
Jun 01 15:47:57 <Wizzup> L29Ah: I have X, yeah.
Jun 01 15:48:05 <Wizzup> L29Ah: I have a file with notes, didn't write a blog post yet
Jun 01 18:05:57 <KotCzarny> tkaiser: regarding sun upgrade, thats called technology progress
Jun 01 18:06:18 <KotCzarny> also, it would be nice to see how stable those sbc are
Jun 01 18:06:46 <KotCzarny> ie. if they burn out eventually due to constant activity
Jun 01 18:07:29 <KotCzarny> oneinsect: increase ramdisk size?
Jun 01 18:10:47 <L29Ah> Wizzup: what about a touch-friendly app launcher and window manager?
Jun 01 18:10:56 <Wizzup> nope, haven't had the time yet
Jun 01 18:12:41 <KotCzarny> drat, wrong chan again
Jun 01 18:12:48 <L29Ah> i'd be nice if you post your notes to some wiki/vcs so i can jump in the fun someday :]
Jun 01 18:12:54 <L29Ah> like https://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900
Jun 01 18:28:16 <Wizzup> L29Ah: ok, right now I'm a bit busy/stressed, but I'll make a note to do it asap
Jun 01 18:28:35 <DocScrutinizer05> luke-jr: https://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900 !!!
Jun 01 18:28:41 <luke-jr> ?
Jun 01 18:28:54 <DocScrutinizer05> just *read* the first 3 lines
Jun 01 18:29:11 <luke-jr> ?
Jun 01 18:29:30 <DocScrutinizer05> are YOU "me"?
Jun 01 18:29:35 <luke-jr> probably
Jun 01 18:29:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Jun 01 18:29:50 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 01 21:56:11 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:48:34] <Centurion_Dan> I proposed a Code of Conduct recently for the NZ Open Source Society, because all the others were far too wordy to be useful and effective.
Jun 01 21:56:12 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:48:45] <djph> ... it's too bad "do unto others..." and/or "seriously, don't be a dick" aren't good enough.
Jun 01 21:56:14 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:49:05] <djph> or rather, aren't seen as "good enough"
Jun 01 21:56:15 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:49:18] <openfbtd> djph, but they are. “There are no rules. There are no rules about moderation either, enjoy your ban.” :)
Jun 01 21:56:17 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:50:22] <openfbtd> Conduct rules hurt communities more than they help, because when you have rules, you have a whole other class of trolls who game the system while technically not breaking any.
Jun 01 21:56:18 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:50:22] <Centurion_Dan> It basically boiled down to that simple don't be a dick, and if you are a dick then we will deal appropriately with you if somebody complains about it.
Jun 01 22:28:05 <Oksana> Telepathy sometimes swallows some of the recent incoming (not outcoming) messages in a conversation, and tried to forget name of the sender (Conversation title becomes " (xx)" where xx is number of unread messages). Probably caused by very large total number of messages in the conversation. Unpleasant bug...
Jun 01 22:35:29 <Oksana> Mussorgsky: take a look at ExFalso if you wish. ExFalso is not a competitor due to futuristic Python dependencies, but some of its code could give ideas on how to add more features to Mussorgsy (like Track Number, or something)
Jun 01 22:37:20 * Oksana is looking at id3lib , meanwhile
Jun 01 22:46:21 <Oksana> dep: libid3-3.8.3c2a  What kind of dependency is that?! /EasyTag in wheezy/ There is libid3tag0 0.15.1b in Maemo 5, how do they even correspond?..
Jun 01 22:47:58 <Oksana> Okay, this libid3-3.8.3c2a I can just fetch, it has no additional dependencies of its own
Jun 01 22:52:41 <Oksana> It's easier to add Wheezy repository and install EasyTag than download one or two dozens of dependencies. But at least, all of them should be doable? Hopefully
Jun 01 23:38:54 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer05: beware the SJWs
Jun 01 23:39:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf sjw
Jun 01 23:39:14 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what sjw means... 
Jun 01 23:41:35 <DocScrutinizer05>   social justice warrior?
Jun 01 23:43:45 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:55:52] <fsmithred> benevolent dictatorship is very useful and appropriate in some situations
Jun 01 23:43:47 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:05] <djph> (1) "Don't Panic" (2) "Don't be a dick" (3) "If you're deemed to being a dick, mods will ban you"
Jun 01 23:43:48 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:07] <openfbtd> Basically it's the “spirit of the law” vs “word of the law”
Jun 01 23:43:50 <DocScrutinizer05> [2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:49] <Centurion_Dan> Not really neccesarily, but in the NZOSS case we had to shut down the CoC discussion because it was turning into the sort of flamewar that would require a CoC to clean up the casualties.
Jun 02 00:02:45 <Oksanaa> What the?.. libfontconfig1 from wheezy requires sysvinit-utils, which conflicts upstart. Why would libfontconfig1 require sysvinit-utils, anyway?
Jun 02 00:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> good question
Jun 02 00:26:05 <DocScrutinizer05> aversion against systemd? ;-)
Jun 02 00:26:52 <Oksanaa> The difference in versions is small, 2.6.0 vs 2.9.0. And they should conflict systemd then, instead of locking onto sysv
Jun 02 00:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe, just kidding
Jun 02 00:27:59 <DocScrutinizer05> install it, breaking dependencies, then see what unmet dependevies show up during runtime
Jun 02 00:28:30 <Oksanaa> how do I tell apt-get to ignore dependencies? ah, I know, aptitude
Jun 02 00:28:42 <DocScrutinizer05> --force?
Jun 02 00:28:46 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
Jun 02 00:28:56 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly apt is not suited for that
Jun 02 00:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> dpkg -i
Jun 02 00:29:58 <DocScrutinizer05> my uneducated guess would be it depends on started X11 or sth, which in turn brings in some sysv-init based handling scheme
Jun 02 00:31:31 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe the explanation is as simple as "it comes with a startscript, to restore font settings during boot"
Jun 02 00:31:42 <Oksanaa> dpkg -i requires having not only libfontcondig1, but all other dependencies of it? could be an option though... easier than dpkg -i easytag
Jun 02 00:32:31 <Oksanaa> well, how did they handle it before?
Jun 02 00:32:41 <DocScrutinizer05> before what?
Jun 02 00:33:03 <DocScrutinizer05> (not that I had a faintest chance to answer that question)
Jun 02 00:33:14 <Oksanaa> libfontconfig 2.6.0 is on maemo, no problems. it's 2.9.0 from wheezy which is problematic
Jun 02 00:33:24 <Oksanaa> libfontconfig1*
Jun 02 00:34:28 <DocScrutinizer05> aah, you mean "how is it handled by genuine maemo fontconfig?"
Jun 02 00:35:05 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I guess it has some patches so it gets started by upstart or even by X11, or dunno what they did
Jun 02 00:35:22 <Oksanaa> what?.. sysvinit-utils 2.86.ds1-60maemo1 
Jun 02 00:36:04 <Oksanaa> aptitude thinks that downgrading solves everything mp-fremantle-community-pr [21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb0 (community-thumb, now) -> 20.2010.36-2maemo8 (fremantle)]
Jun 02 00:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I pass
Jun 02 00:39:10 <Oksanaa> of course, it involves removing way too many packages (including mediaplayer) so not acceptable
Jun 02 00:39:55 <Oksanaa> trying  aptitude install libfontconfig1
Jun 02 00:40:38 <Oksanaa> I guess that getting easytag to work may in the end require porting it to maemo
Jun 02 00:41:11 <Oksanaa> just because of its way-too-many dependencies
Jun 02 00:49:38 <DocScrutinizer05> well, when easytag is some GUI program...
Jun 02 00:49:53 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of it
Jun 02 00:51:14 <Oksanaa> it's gtk+ program, without python, and depends on id3lib which is already on maemo, for tag editing. and somebody seriously overcomplicated its dependencies list
Jun 02 00:51:37 <Oksanaa> aka mussorgsky, only without python or mutagen
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 02 02:59:58 2016