**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 02 02:59:58 2016 Jun 02 03:51:12 It's painful. Libfontconfig1>fontconfig-config>ucf, and still cannot understand what's going on Jun 02 04:12:46 how many poeple are actually buying a neo900 ? Jun 02 04:14:42 and is the hope that a new userbase will come along and create software for it? Jun 02 04:15:07 or the existing stuff will be ported or what Jun 02 04:16:19 fishbulb: AFAIK the point of the Neo900 design using an ancient SoC is to maintain N900 compatibility Jun 02 04:16:36 but DocScrutinizer05 would be the one to ask Jun 02 04:16:49 personally, I'm going with Pyra Jun 02 04:17:40 there's no way I'm buying a neo900, or basically any phone, I'm just wondering what that project has as goals and expectations Jun 02 04:18:21 the board was old when that project started Jun 02 04:19:45 how much is the pyra Jun 02 04:20:32 the pandora was ludicrously expensive and there are only 3d renderings of the pyra Jun 02 04:21:37 fishbulb: no, there are prototypes of the Pyra too Jun 02 04:21:45 https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart Jun 02 04:37:05 fishbulb: Generally, it's hoped that old users of N900 will migrate to Neo900 (when N900 devices disintegrate with time) and new people will join the community due to lack of dev-oriented (like, with hardware keyboard) phones; privacy-conscious (and paranoid) people also do not have much choice in modern market, and may come to get Neo900 and-or Pyra in order to have control over cellular modem. Jun 02 04:37:54 ~fptf Jun 02 04:37:54 extra, extra, read all about it, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 Jun 02 04:38:22 ^ That's about porting (and upgrading?) old software to new hardware Jun 02 04:39:27 this is kind of worse than even a kickstarter Jun 02 04:40:38 basically all kickstarters fail becuase mass production isn't the same as making a few prototypes, at 900 euro or whatever, I could buy... a car? a flagship device, and root it, install debian and whatever else I wanted... or that Jun 02 04:41:33 in saying so, I still use an n900, but LOTS of them were made by nokia, and ALL of them passed nokia's build quality standards, then were supported for a while Jun 02 04:42:26 it would be good if more people were able to be objective about their projects. Jun 02 04:48:17 It's objective. Neither Nokia or Microsoft are going to support N900. Community still updates software for N900. And the team ports this software to Neo900. Jun 02 04:49:24 Build quality standard is excellent, have a look at Openmoko aka GTA04 (if I remember correctly) to know the build quality. Made in Germany, by the way. Jun 02 04:50:57 Not all flagship devices are root-able, and even those which support multi-boot, will hardly have the same thought put into them. The same ability to monitor modem transmissions, and power down the modem on user's request. And isolation of modem from other parts of the system. Jun 02 04:52:20 There is also thought put into overcoming nokia's known issues, such as some SIM-related-chip separating from motherboard and requiring hot-air to make it work again Jun 02 04:56:04 And don't get me started on sensors. Pressure, temperature and humidity; stylus detector (to avoid losing stylus)... Jun 02 05:03:16 Add to that debugging-LEDs... http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2014-11-10#10793995 Jun 02 05:03:33 fishbulb ? Jun 02 05:52:04 I carried a giant slow cooker to the place I bought it from, exchanged it, bought groceries and walked back Jun 02 05:53:32 I dunno. I have more than a few n900's Jun 02 05:53:52 one has a broken usb port, and it's 8 years later Jun 02 05:55:32 the other has a failing usb port, one has a keyboard that's pretty worn, zero of those issues you said I've ever experienced, several other people didn't either who got theirs roughly the same time as mine Jun 02 05:56:23 if I have to replace this phone, I wouldn't spend 1/20 of the neo900 price Jun 02 05:58:28 I've never broken a usb port either, I have dropped one device in a toilet though Jun 02 06:37:34 Well, I do not remember exactly about usb port, but I am sure something is done about it, too. Just not sure what... Jun 02 08:13:35 what does a pyra cost? Jun 02 09:08:09 hey my tablet doesn't support adhoc wifi connections Jun 02 09:08:24 adhoc is the only sort the n900 can make Jun 02 09:08:37 use usb? Jun 02 09:08:38 is there another way of connecting data to a nexus 7 Jun 02 09:08:48 use usb how Jun 02 09:09:53 I don't think anything portable supports adhoc Jun 02 09:10:05 can a bluetooth tether work Jun 02 09:10:13 yes, bt will work Jun 02 09:10:16 ~bt Jun 02 09:10:16 bt sux0rs. Bhutan Jun 02 09:10:22 ~pan Jun 02 09:10:22 rumour has it, pan is https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN Jun 02 09:10:42 what exactly sux? Jun 02 09:11:41 ok that's a lot of bollocks I don't want to do Jun 02 09:11:51 not right now at least. Jun 02 12:46:12 fishbulb: i used to do ppp over rfcomm over bluetooth between an android and my n900... but it's also manually set up Jun 02 13:17:19 modest breaks itself sometime Jun 02 13:18:04 after receiving maybe a bad formatted email, or maybe just a strangely (but standard compliant) email, it starts not knowing what an email is Jun 02 13:18:26 breaking headers, not being able to show the content, mistaking subject with sender or recipient... general parsing errors all over the place Jun 02 13:18:40 ah, it's been in fact after receiving a linux-kernel mailing list email Jun 02 13:18:48 so i don't reckon it's misformated Jun 02 13:18:58 just a long email with lots of different headers or whatever Jun 02 13:19:17 i'm getting a bit tired of the limitations of maemo Jun 02 13:19:49 i know such behaviour of modest... Jun 02 13:19:59 also it uses that silly binary storage format Jun 02 13:20:13 sometimes you just have to erase the storage to make it work again Jun 02 13:20:33 and supposedly it's opensource, but isn't... or something... so it can't be fixed Jun 02 13:21:44 i think we deserve a decent email client Jun 02 13:39:10 ceene: we deserve to write one for ourselves Jun 02 13:39:25 you can just install sylpheed/claws... Jun 02 13:40:18 they are only slightly better than modest, plus they don't have maemo integration so they must be running at all times, there's no notification on new email, can't use exchange... so it's just a workaround as useful as VNCing into a remote system to read email Jun 02 14:07:08 i use modest on n800. Never had have that issue Jun 02 14:09:57 emacs+wanderlust+mbsync and You can get visual notification. If You have no problem with cli. Also mutt+mbsync could be an option Jun 02 14:39:03 modest is open source. fixable. Jun 02 14:52:12 does it use mbox? Jun 02 14:52:21 or some other format (maildir, mh ....)? Jun 02 14:52:36 because a malformated mbox could explain ceene's issues Jun 02 14:57:24 I'd think this should be simple to answer... *if* you got a modest running Jun 02 15:00:13 looks like maildir Jun 02 15:00:43 but only 'looks like', I didn't verify it actually is Jun 02 15:01:04 /home/user/.modest/cache/mail/maildir/home/user/.modest/local_folders Jun 02 15:01:04 anyway, not mbox Jun 02 15:01:13 so prolly not what I was thinking about Jun 02 15:01:36 still it could use a mbox or even database in the end Jun 02 15:03:13 ooh yeah, and then there was this (look closely) /home/user/.modest/cache/mail/maildir/media/mmc1/.modest/local_folders Jun 02 15:04:07 media/mmc1 makes me wonder what happens to your mail when the uSD goes south Jun 02 15:05:56 //home/user/.modest/cache/mail/pop/reisenweber@gmx.net__pop.gmx.net_110/logbook Jun 02 15:06:49 summary.mmap in same dir Jun 02 15:07:27 which looks like it's a great candidate for any sort of corruption Jun 02 17:20:50 summary.mmap in same dir Jun 02 17:20:56 that was what i meant Jun 02 17:45:26 i've erased .modest/cache and made it sync Jun 02 17:45:44 and it's synced with the same kind of corruption Jun 02 17:49:24 merlin1991: ping Jun 02 17:54:48 warfare: https://www.heinlein-support.de/blog/news/gmx-de-und-web-de-haben-mail-rejects-durch-spf/ Jun 02 17:55:58 ceene: modsest was known to have parse errors on mails that are a little "creative" with structure Jun 02 17:56:13 dunno how much of that got fixed in CSSU Jun 02 17:57:16 warfare: relevant for all @maemo.org email aliases aiui Jun 02 18:02:24 is there another directory besides .modest? Jun 02 18:05:12 or related to MfE Jun 02 18:14:14 ceene: see the links implied in the */cache/* pathnames. There must be one on uSD and most likely another one on MyDocs Jun 02 18:15:28 I recall in PR1.1 times a simple mail with photo attachment "sent from my iphone" broke modest fubar Jun 02 18:25:28 in cache dir, mails are stored in maildir format, i.e., each mail on its own file Jun 02 18:25:44 however, one message corrupts visualization for all Jun 02 18:25:52 and it gets that way forever Jun 02 18:26:10 even if all messages are deleted, new ones will appear corrupted Jun 02 18:26:44 doesn't make any sense Jun 02 18:27:37 SPF is just one big shit and only retarded people can use it Jun 02 18:28:13 and DMARC is another nonsense created by disabled people Jun 02 18:29:21 those disabled people behind workig group have disabled their brains Jun 02 18:33:55 „Ja, SPF geht nicht, wir machen es aber trotzdem!“ Jun 02 18:35:02 which basically translates into "we pursue other sneaky purposes than spam filtering with SPF" Jun 02 19:18:43 Ok so for future reference when I search these logs about mafw-lastfm eating CPU issue. Seems I have to log out on ALL devices to clear the cache. As well as rm ~/.osso/mafw-lastfm* :rolleyes: Jun 02 19:26:55 wow Jun 02 19:32:46 DocScrutinizer05: maemo.org has a valid SPF record. Jun 02 19:37:28 hmm yeah, but when somebody sends a mail to Iforward@maemo.org form I-hafe-SPF-minus-all@someprovider.org... Jun 02 19:37:57 and it gets forwarded to any gmx or web.de account by maemo.org Jun 02 19:38:09 warfare: ^^^ Jun 02 19:38:53 DocScrutinizer05: Yes, then it's broken. And there is nothing we can do about it. Jun 02 19:38:59 yep Jun 02 19:39:28 just maybe check the aliases for gmx/webde forwards Jun 02 19:39:45 they are prone to fail sooner rather than later Jun 02 19:40:35 possibly inform the recipients aka owners of those gmx/web accounts Jun 02 19:42:59 I'll check that. Jun 02 21:48:39 warfare: actually there *is* something you can do about ... change the way you forward mails Jun 02 21:49:00 rewrite the smtp envelop (MAIL FROM) instead of passing it as-is Jun 02 21:49:15 (note that I'm talking about the MAIL FROM, not the From:) Jun 02 23:01:55 this however requires new infra, the currently used tools probably are not designed to do that Jun 02 23:02:43 and particularly the return path is something to think about when doing this Jun 02 23:09:35 I'm pretty much a layman about that whole SMTP et al stuff, but the guy writing https://www.heinlein-support.de/blog/news/gmx-de-und-web-de-haben-mail-rejects-durch-spf/ seems to be an expert and he thinks SPF is "broken by design and BS". Even more notheworthy the GMX guy himself says "Yes, **SPF doesn't work** but nevertheless we'll do it". The alternatives explained in that article seem sound to me, particularly DKIM Jun 02 23:12:55 https://www.heinlein-support.de/vortrag/spf-dkim-greylisting-der-neue-spamschutz Jun 02 23:28:15 DKIM isn't any better ... Jun 02 23:28:33 it notoriously breaks other parts of the mail ecosystem Jun 02 23:28:48 not exactly mailing-lists-friendly for instance... Jun 02 23:29:08 iirc there is a kindof workaround for that but .... Jun 03 01:03:26 hey, how do I connect bluetooth data to a nexus 7 tablet? Jun 03 01:03:29 using an n900 Jun 03 01:03:39 the PAN method is for nokia to nokia Jun 03 01:18:29 nah, PAN is for $device to $device, with the instructions for Nokia being one of those devices Jun 03 01:19:56 ~pan Jun 03 01:19:57 pan is probably https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN Jun 03 01:20:38 you prolly want to use N900 in DUN mode as modem though Jun 03 01:21:42 https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN Jun 03 01:22:09 >>if the N900 has net access itself, another Bluetooth-equipped device (such as a PC or laptop) may use it as a modem. In this case it plays the role of the mobile phone in the previous scenarios, and act as a Bluetooth DUN server<< Jun 03 01:25:06 imo; PAN is betterthan DUN, PAN works from maemo to droid Jun 03 01:25:44 PAN is not really supported on N900 afaik, with N900 as server Jun 03 01:26:03 it works for me Jun 03 01:26:24 hmm, maybe I'm mistaken: >>If you have Nokia N900 you may instead use it as PAN server to allow an other device such as a Nokia N8x0 to utilize Bluetooth PAN.<< Jun 03 01:26:28 even i use n900 as panu, but with merlin bluez-utils Jun 03 01:27:06 and the cssu kernel Jun 03 01:27:52 panu does not work on pr 1.3 Jun 03 01:28:07 it is a kernel issue Jun 03 01:28:43 yes, PAN needs iptables which isn't available on stock kernel. That's why I suggest DUN Jun 03 01:29:02 DUN should work pretty much OOTB Jun 03 01:29:41 or rather, just needs a package installed Jun 03 01:29:52 https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN#Bluetooth_DUN_server Jun 03 01:30:07 nice, 4 me pan is the way to go Jun 03 01:31:09 for the nexus 7 prolly https://wiki.maemo.org/Debian-Tethering is the page to go to Jun 03 01:33:12 as n800 have PAN also. I have never tried DUN. n900 is better than n800 that's my logic Jun 03 01:33:13 the difference is: PAN creates a true router on N900 and shares the GPRS internet. DUN simply exposes a modem via a sort of virtual serial connection and the N900 itself is completely out of the scope Jun 03 01:34:04 n800 does not have GPRS :) Jun 03 01:34:15 obviously a complete router is way more complex than a simple export of a virtual TTY Jun 03 01:34:24 but it let's You share ur wifi Jun 03 01:34:48 or better said the n800 wifi connection Jun 03 01:34:57 share wifi via BT, what weird usecase it *that*? Jun 03 01:35:51 that's what for those devices have been made Jun 03 01:36:02 huh? Jun 03 01:36:31 even droid's let's do that easy Jun 03 01:36:51 so? I still don't see what anybody would need that for Jun 03 01:37:12 any BT device that needs internet also has WLAN Jun 03 01:37:46 again battery life my friend. that's rule # one. increase battery life Jun 03 01:37:55 ohmy Jun 03 01:39:04 I'd need to see a decent evaluation of any supposed battery savings by using BT PAN instead WLAN Jun 03 01:39:21 don't by that blindly Jun 03 01:39:26 buy* Jun 03 01:39:28 then. It is not a weird use case. It saves a lot tested here on field camp Jun 03 01:39:54 BT doubles battery life compared with wifi Jun 03 01:40:01 o.O Jun 03 01:40:16 test it whenever u need. I have done It Jun 03 01:40:34 sorry, I'm not going to even test that Jun 03 01:41:35 I have heard no arguments that make think there'sd a big diffetrence between active WLAN and active BT regarding battery consumption Jun 03 01:42:24 it's known that an unpaired WLAN scanning for APs needs a lot of power Jun 03 01:42:47 but a paired and connected WLAN is rather humble Jun 03 01:44:30 Well, a problem starts when WiFi likes to disconnect randomly, and then search for networks again to re-connect Jun 03 01:44:36 ok. I have tested it here listening internet streams Jun 03 01:44:38 as a ballpark figure: I can leave my N900 for maybe a week in standby with established ssh session via WLAN, from one battery Jun 03 01:44:47 Nice :-D Jun 03 01:45:02 prolly longer Jun 03 01:45:03 try it that way Jun 03 01:46:33 yes, as stated above WLAN searching for APs is a power hog Jun 03 01:47:12 on both N900 and N8x0 Jun 03 01:48:02 so the BT PAN is just a very sophisticated powerpack to provide the WLAN energy from a auxilary battery Jun 03 01:48:27 DocScrutinizer05: mmmm? Jun 03 01:49:22 you prolly could get longer active time per same weight when you use such a powerbank for your primary device and use WLAN instead of BT PANM and a WLAN server Jun 03 01:50:39 you save all the energy for BT and the second system with CPU and RAM and all Jun 03 01:50:51 DocScrutinizer05: I am not understanding your statement. BT_PAN is equivalent to WLAN. But client devices have wifi-card turned off Jun 03 01:51:23 use a powerbank instead that BT<->WLAN extender Jun 03 01:51:36 wifi, has more range (it needs more power). Just simple math Jun 03 01:51:37 same weight -> longer standby Jun 03 01:52:01 meh, sorry I fail to explain my rationale Jun 03 01:53:37 I just can say that simple math doesn't apply to electronics Jun 03 01:54:13 then facts, do not try an idle conn but an active then Jun 03 01:54:48 sorry, I also fail to read you Jun 03 01:55:31 ur probably test case is an idle ssh connection. try an active one play a multimedia file on the device Jun 03 01:56:08 I won't try anything since I know the max TX of WLAN is 100mW which means that it could theoretically run for 40h continuous(!) TX from one battery, in N900 Jun 03 01:56:08 from the web Jun 03 01:56:59 THAT is simple math in electronics Jun 03 01:57:29 is not just that processor and dsp are consuming energy too Jun 03 01:58:02 yes, exactly, they do, in your BT<->WLAN device Jun 03 01:58:07 add to that the speaker Jun 03 01:58:08 for nothing Jun 03 01:58:36 BT consumes less power check it out on the specs Jun 03 01:58:41 attach the battery of BT<->WLAN device directly to your primary device instead and profit Jun 03 01:59:03 wlan is turned off on client devices Jun 03 01:59:11 dude, I'm an EE, don't tell me to check anything in the specs Jun 03 01:59:24 I use powerkernel anyway Jun 03 01:59:24 * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks Jun 03 01:59:48 you mean you've always been an engineer or you had to learn a lot for this neo900 project Jun 03 02:00:48 when you think anybody could start such a project to *learn* how to do EE, then good luck Jun 03 02:00:50 and no, wifi hoses the battery, 40h is an absurd overestimation Jun 03 02:01:08 blablabla Jun 03 02:01:58 I did mech and electronic engineering, I think you're going to lose your mind when the percentage of dead boards come in Jun 03 02:02:18 I think you're posing Jun 03 02:02:27 fishbulb: why do you think I mentioned Openmoko aka GTA04? Neo900 motherboard is both based on GTA04... and designed by same person Jun 03 02:02:46 ~joerg Jun 03 02:02:46 extra, extra, read all about it, joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org Jun 03 02:03:09 ~sunshavi Jun 03 02:03:09 I built computers before you were born Jun 03 02:03:31 * Oksana nods... Jun 03 02:03:37 I only really care about your opinion on the n900 Jun 03 02:03:58 and I don't care about this conversation any longer Jun 03 02:04:00 DocScrutinizer05: I do not want to start an arguments. Those are just tested facts here Jun 03 02:04:05 except that last one Jun 03 02:04:47 sunshavi: you're on a different wavelength and didn'T get what I said, at all Jun 03 02:05:10 maybe doc meant that if you just run the wifi and zero other things on the n900 you can potentially get 40h Jun 03 02:05:20 fishbulb: Different N900s behave differently. Be it software (flash the device?) or water-damage (somebody refused to repair microusb port and wrote water damage as reason), my n900 eats batteries like candy, while doc's is very-well-maintained Jun 03 02:05:53 like no internet connection, barely any other processes, just a wifi connection to the phone doing nothing, 40h? still no Jun 03 02:06:20 Potentially, yes. He mentions WiFi and ssh, in stand-by (aka blanked screen) mode. Not video-ing Jun 03 02:06:42 a plain N900 with crap like skype and email checks and other instant messaging nuked can easily stay 2 days with active connected WLAN, on one battery Jun 03 02:07:10 Nice :-D Jun 03 02:07:36 oh cool, I can wlan into the phone, and.... Jun 03 02:07:44 wait I still need data Jun 03 02:07:46 Either all my batteries are nuked, or my N900 is not plain... Does your plain N900 include 3G? Jun 03 02:07:54 actually I do that every day, when I come home and forget to connect mine to charger, and next morning I notice "ooh, forgot the running XCHAT anfd now it ran since 18h via WLAN and battery down to 60%" Jun 03 02:08:00 why the fuck would you even suggest that Jun 03 02:08:31 oh yes excluding 3g, you can use it as a wifi hotspot for AGES Jun 03 02:08:32 Oksana: yes Jun 03 02:08:43 if you don't want internet, you can use the wifi hotspot for hours and hours Jun 03 02:09:26 how about I turn both devices off, I can use them for the next 3 years before the batteries die Jun 03 02:09:38 fishbulb: please stop playing ignorant, I said "running xchat" Jun 03 02:09:54 Also, might be tracker with lots of files to be tracked... Or just wishful thinking, trying to blame all problems on the tracker Jun 03 02:10:22 Oksana: what is tracker? Jun 03 02:10:39 are you so buusy with trolling that you forget to understand what you read, or don't you read at all? Jun 03 02:10:50 The thing which puts list of images into Photos-Gallery, list of Music and Videos into Media Player Jun 03 02:10:51 this might be productive if any of you were tethered to reality Jun 03 02:11:15 Sorry, multi-conversation can be difficult to keep up with Jun 03 02:12:02 troll Jun 03 02:12:07 what is happening with those "ChanServ" messages? Jun 03 02:12:33 nothing important Jun 03 02:12:58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_services#ChanServ Jun 03 02:13:16 Oksana: thanks. I do not use it :p Jun 03 02:14:45 all my interactions wiht media player are trought dbus. I cant wait 4 media player to take a lot of time 4 starting Jun 03 02:15:22 probably the process eating starting time is tracker Jun 03 02:16:29 for further enlightenment: Jun 03 02:16:32 ~power Jun 03 02:16:32 power is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Jun 03 02:16:46 guess who did that? Jun 03 02:18:29 DocScrutinizer05: bt comsuption is not there :p Jun 03 02:18:41 so what? Jun 03 02:19:19 and actually it is, just not for active PAN usage Jun 03 02:19:41 however WLAN usage is there Jun 03 02:20:13 wait: it is Jun 03 02:20:41 even a bq27200 log for a usecase with xchat (internet data traffic via WLAN) Jun 03 02:21:32 which clearly shows WLAN is not your primary problem and saving WLAN energy thus won't solve it Jun 03 02:22:28 Also: http://wiki.maemo.org/Make_your_battery_last_longer http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode http://wiki.maemo.org/AutoDisconnect Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed Jun 03 02:22:47 but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all Jun 03 02:22:48 "WLAN transmit 802.11b - 150 mA" and "BT enabled, no headset connected +2 mA with ~1/5 time spikes to +9 mA" Jun 03 02:23:14 those r ur own numbers Jun 03 02:23:18 auto-disconnect WAAAAAH! Jun 03 02:24:44 sunshavi: yes, those are my numbers and I understand them, you obviously don't. That's why I won't discuss this any longer Jun 03 02:25:10 DocScrutinizer05: ok Jun 03 02:25:23 that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said Jun 03 02:26:28 again: tested here , not just my words. How I have gotten those results? Jun 03 02:26:51 Oksana: ((Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed)) you damn better don't Jun 03 02:27:03 that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said Jun 03 02:27:24 ^^^ repeated on purpose Jun 03 02:27:41 lol. Ok tables then Jun 03 02:28:44 but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all (also repeated on purpose) Jun 03 02:29:22 ok i am going to read and try to understand then Jun 03 02:29:23 for the rest I suggest the backscroll Jun 03 02:30:04 DocScrutinizer05: how can I plug a second battery to a device? Jun 03 02:31:16 DocScrutinizer05: Do I need to take off the battery from the second device? Jun 03 02:31:54 I mentioned a powerbank, see backscroll Jun 03 02:32:33 a powerbank same weight as your N810(?) will give you 5 times the operation time with your primary device Jun 03 02:33:13 DocScrutinizer05: N800 here :) Jun 03 02:33:53 since no N800 CPU and RAM and BT and whatnot needs to get operated basically for nothing Jun 03 02:34:17 plus you save the BT energy on your primary device Jun 03 02:34:47 that's a lot of energy saving, and you got a lot more energy in a powerbank than in a N800 too Jun 03 02:35:27 on same size of powerbank and N800 Jun 03 02:36:15 DocScrutinizer05: if i need a portable wifi all my colleages (up until 8) can get it from my PAN Jun 03 02:36:25 N900+N800 = X hours. N900 + powerbank = X * 10 hours Jun 03 02:37:39 DocScrutinizer05: and All of my colleages thanks me their devices last longer cos of bluetooth savings Jun 03 02:37:43 plus all your colleagues could get WLAN from your N900 then Jun 03 02:38:05 via BT Jun 03 02:38:31 ten times longer than with N900 and N800 Jun 03 02:40:16 while you still have to cary only 2 objects: powerbank and N900, and the weight would be same (if you find the right powerbank with same weight as the N800) Jun 03 02:40:19 I do not use both devices at the same time, just one of those Jun 03 02:40:52 then wth were you talking about with your energy saving by BT PAN? Jun 03 02:40:55 I have two batteries for my n900 Jun 03 02:41:23 sorry, this is a timesink 'discussion' Jun 03 02:41:39 cos besides having a wifi conn at home we have a BT PAN too Jun 03 02:42:20 thanks for the suggestion about the power bank. All of this started cos of DUN, vs PAN scenary Jun 03 02:42:52 I was in favor of PAN. You were on favor of DUN Jun 03 02:44:07 btw guys. whon did that question. I am going to go back for it. But probably one of you can beat me with that Jun 03 02:44:42 Okay, how is autodisconnect in Extras still?.. Not in testing or devel? Curious... http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-05-25.log.html Did somebody eventually look into flaw(s) in its logic?.. The thread is old, so most likely people do not use it much http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45053 Jun 03 02:45:12 autoconnect is fubar Jun 03 02:49:53 Oksana: I think the "flaws in its logic" are undocumented behavior of ICD2 etc Jun 03 02:50:54 though I also think the whole concept of auto-disconnect is broken by design Jun 03 02:51:37 why would you disconnect from internet to start with? Jun 03 02:52:40 the modem for example has no noticeable increase in energy consumption when it's actually connected to the APN Jun 03 02:53:25 the energy gets consumed for data transfer, which is when auto-disconnect is supposed to establish a new connection anyway Jun 03 02:54:27 it might help in a situation where you suffer massive unsolicited inbound data traffic which also cuts through your battery, but that's a problem way better solved on a different level Jun 03 02:56:18 and your dataplan isn't balanced by the minutes you are connected anyway Jun 03 02:56:49 auto-disconnect is a concept from dial-up connections Jun 03 02:56:52 time Jun 03 02:57:55 when you connected your acoustic coupler to the receiver of your landline phone, or later had a hayes modem that actually did call a number to connect to the internet for like 20ct per minute Jun 03 02:58:56 Hmm, is there another way (besides auto-disconnect) to auto-switch to 2G when possible, and 3G when 2G is not available? Because Dual goes to 3G when possible, 2G when 3G is not available. Jun 03 02:59:23 I dunno if the modem could even do that Jun 03 02:59:42 possibly a limitation in the network *protocols* **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 03 02:59:58 2016