**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 29 02:59:58 2016
Jun 29 07:13:18 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: For entering numbers? :-P  Seriously, the row of digits above the top row of letters is not always a substitute for the digits on the numeric keypad because some things specifically use the keys on the numeric keypad, such as entering a character by entering its code point while holding AltGr or selecting the camera in a simulation of a vehicle, such as in (the) Microsoft Flight Simulator, or the script I have to control the camera in the third-
Jun 29 07:13:18 <brolin_empey> person view in Quake III: Arena, or to have greater control of direction of movement, such as in SkiFree.
Jun 29 07:13:53 <KotCzarny> what about wsad? :P
Jun 29 07:18:38 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: WASD is a substitute for the inverted-T arrangement of arrow keys, not a substitute for the numeric keypad.  WASD/inverted-T arrow keys allows only 90 degress of change of direction.  The numeric keypad allows 45 degrees.
Jun 29 07:23:45 <KotCzarny> only if you dont map qezxc too
Jun 29 07:33:58 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: A numeric keypad on a computer with an integrated hardware keyboard is kind of like rear side doors on a car: both things are useful but cannot easily be added later if you initially decide you do not need them.  Would you question my choice to replace my car with only 2 side doors with a car with 4 side doors if you personally do not use the rear side doors?  Yes, replacing the integrated keyboard on a notebook computer to add an integrated 
Jun 29 07:33:58 <brolin_empey> numeric keypad may technically be possible if you care enough but buying the product whose designer intentionally removed a useful integrated hardware feature sends the wrong message.
Jun 29 07:35:55 <KotCzarny> i only use it for gaming (roguelikes) and nothing else really
Jun 29 07:36:02 <KotCzarny> so its a matter of personal preference
Jun 29 07:37:24 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: Some applications use a hardwired keymap instead of loading keybindings from a file redd at runtime.
Jun 29 07:39:08 <KotCzarny> in linux you can map any key to anything
Jun 29 07:42:59 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: Anyway, you said that ThinkPads have an overlaid numeric keypad but I was discussing fanless notebook computers that have a proper integrated display.  The ThinkPad model you proposed that can run without a fan (X40?) has a TN AMLCD panel, not a proper AMLCD panel such as IPS or VA.
Jun 29 07:47:42 <KotCzarny> yeah. but as i said, its a matter of personal preference, for me its just enough
Jun 29 09:15:37 <L29Ah> i love TN for its energy efficiency
Jun 29 09:16:26 <L29Ah> too bad there aren't transflective displays for common laptops
Jun 29 09:38:38 <kerio> IPS \o/
Jun 29 09:41:03 <merlin1991> IPS?
Jun 29 09:43:06 <kerio> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_panel
Jun 29 09:43:15 <kerio> the lcd panels that have colors that look good :3
Jun 29 09:55:49 <KotCzarny> for a console, occassional googling i can live with tn
Jun 29 10:23:36 <Sicelo> re - battery issues. it did calibrate :) 12% gain. will see what happens in the current cycle
Jun 29 11:53:37 <KotCzarny> manual or re
Jun 29 12:16:54 * Oksanaa doesn't know how to tell pkg-config that libasound does exist
Jun 29 12:24:06 <L29Ah> Oksana: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/alsa.pc
Jun 29 12:24:06 <L29Ah> ?
Jun 29 12:25:41 <Oksanaa> L29Ah: Thank you! :-) It was a matter of installing libasound2-dev
Jun 29 13:01:23 <erlehmann> so my n900 does not recognize its modem anymore
Jun 29 13:01:24 <erlehmann> what do
Jun 29 13:06:13 <erlehmann> so again
Jun 29 13:06:13 <Oksanaa> hot air or something?.. not sure
Jun 29 13:06:26 <erlehmann> my n900 fails telephony forever ;_;
Jun 29 13:06:58 <Oksanaa> well, if you have good enough wifi coverage, sip would be enough?
Jun 29 13:07:18 <Oksanaa> or attack usb modem stick externally
Jun 29 13:07:40 <L29Ah> i'd bake its motherboard in an oven, and bought a new one if it fails
Jun 29 13:08:02 <Oksanaa> do take battery out first!
Jun 29 13:08:09 <L29Ah> i afraid the usb connector will die tho
Jun 29 13:08:19 <erlehmann> the USB connector is fine.
Jun 29 13:08:33 <Oksanaa> and I would not wish to microwave the camera
Jun 29 13:08:45 <erlehmann> Oksana, i need 2G / 3G coverage and telephony
Jun 29 13:09:06 <erlehmann> L29Ah, do i have to bake? how long? can you give instructions?
Jun 29 13:09:23 <erlehmann> it seems like a mechanical issue. the phone started to act up weird when it was very hot during the last few days.
Jun 29 13:09:29 <erlehmann> and lost connection repeatedly
Jun 29 13:09:46 <erlehmann> i remember the n900 of my ex gf did not boot properly during chaos communication camp as it was too hot.
Jun 29 13:09:55 <erlehmann> these phones really have a problem with temperatures
Jun 29 13:10:38 <Oksanaa> Ouch... How much did bnf report? I have seen 46°C in the sun, and had no problems
Jun 29 13:11:36 <erlehmann> bnf?
Jun 29 13:11:48 <erlehmann> we found out later that my ex gf left her phone in the tent
Jun 29 13:12:10 <erlehmann> if i recall correctly, DocScrutinizer05 flashed it repeatedly and it crashed minutes after booting several times
Jun 29 13:12:15 <erlehmann> after the camp it worked again, lol
Jun 29 13:12:28 <erlehmann> so, heat
Jun 29 13:12:37 <erlehmann> but really it is temperature changes
Jun 29 13:13:01 <Oksanaa> bnf is neat app, which reads battery temperature as part of displaying battery status
Jun 29 13:15:29 <erlehmann> L29Ah, why do you think usb will fail in oven? extrapolate your onions.
Jun 29 13:16:38 <L29Ah> erlehmann: actually now i watched a couple of videos where ppl bake x86 motherboards and the plastic stuff stays intact
Jun 29 13:16:48 <L29Ah> but it still feels kinda risky
Jun 29 13:17:15 <erlehmann> why bake at all?
Jun 29 13:17:32 <erlehmann> if it became unstuck, couldn't i just, like, fix it with glue or springs or so?
Jun 29 13:18:58 <Oksanaa> Very long thread: http://talk.maemo.org/archive/index.php/t-36447.html
Jun 29 13:19:28 <Oksanaa> Reboot, reflash, try different celltowers, insert lots of paper...
Jun 29 13:19:38 <erlehmann> it is surely a hardware error
Jun 29 13:20:18 <Oksanaa> Different solutions for different cases. And yes, insert lots of paper is spring-like "solution" for the problem
Jun 29 13:21:57 <L29Ah> because baking can weld the cracks of the solder joints of varios smd components found on the motherboard
Jun 29 13:22:38 <L29Ah> and afaik the modem is just a separate chip on the mb
Jun 29 13:23:54 <erlehmann> ah
Jun 29 13:24:00 <erlehmann> the point is it is not the sim card
Jun 29 13:24:07 <erlehmann> because the error occurs even when the card is not in
Jun 29 13:29:11 <Oksanaa> The motherboard itself separated (partially) from modem-chip? Paper or hot air might help, either way
Jun 29 13:30:00 * Oksanaa wishes there was a side by side comparison of pros and cons of hot-air and microwave-oven
Jun 29 13:30:29 <bencoh> 16:24 < erlehmann> because the error occurs even when the card is not in
Jun 29 13:30:34 <bencoh> what kind of "errors"?
Jun 29 13:30:49 <bencoh> you mentioned telephony/connection thus far
Jun 29 13:30:58 <erlehmann> error is that on boot a popup comes that all telephony is disabled even emergency services calls
Jun 29 13:31:06 <erlehmann> and then on start of maemo desktop the same comes up
Jun 29 13:31:17 <bencoh> then how is it not related to modem?
Jun 29 13:31:23 <bencoh> (and/or sim)
Jun 29 13:31:34 <erlehmann> it is related to the modem, but not to the sim card
Jun 29 13:31:46 <erlehmann> you are supposed to be able to call emergency services even without a sim card
Jun 29 13:31:46 <bencoh> ah, because even emergency calls are disabled, okay
Jun 29 13:31:54 <bencoh> could still be the modem then
Jun 29 13:31:54 <erlehmann> and i took it out and the error is the same
Jun 29 13:32:00 <erlehmann> yes, that is what i assume
Jun 29 13:32:21 <erlehmann> how can i diagnose? is there logfile somewhere?
Jun 29 13:32:38 <bencoh> hmm .... with syslog installed and a reboot, maybe
Jun 29 13:39:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ~springfix
Jun 29 13:39:23 <infobot> rumour has it, springfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243160#post1243160  and http://www.jabawok.net/?p=14
Jun 29 13:39:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ping
Jun 29 13:39:25 <infobot> 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss
Jun 29 13:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> for baking you want to remove camera and domesheet
Jun 29 13:40:33 <Oksanaa> NtEd build dependencies so far: g++(-4.2), gcc(-4.2), gettext, libasound2-dev, libpango1.0-dev, libcairo2-dev, libgtk2.0-dev (versions are annoying)
Jun 29 13:40:56 <Oksanaa> Camera is fragile /never tried it personally, though/
Jun 29 13:43:04 <erlehmann> thanks DocScrutinizer05 
Jun 29 13:43:14 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, does it work reliably?
Jun 29 13:44:41 <DocScrutinizer05> baking? no warranty of any kind. highly risky
Jun 29 13:45:26 <DocScrutinizer05> springfix is reported to work for a few months usually
Jun 29 13:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05> forget paper and the like#
Jun 29 14:26:23 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, a few months would be nice.
Jun 29 14:26:38 <erlehmann> i do not have much money. looking for a job currently.
Jun 29 14:27:16 <erlehmann> on the off chance someone here knows someone … http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/about/cv.html
Jun 29 14:32:44 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, what would you suggest besides “source other n900 replacements from your friends who stopped using them” ?
Jun 29 14:32:58 <erlehmann> in before neo900
Jun 29 14:33:40 <erlehmann> it really is so nice to have apt-get and x11 and stuff :/
Jun 29 14:33:55 <_maniac_> ~tabletsdev
Jun 29 14:33:56 <infobot> from memory, tabletsdev is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/  http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev ,  http://tabletsdev.maemo.org (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site http://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/, or http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/93.81.63.203/repositories/skeiron.org/skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads, or http://maemo.muarf.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/
Jun 29 14:33:57 <DocScrutinizer05> used N900 in good condition on ebay are ~50EUR
Jun 29 14:34:09 <_maniac_> thank you kind infobot.
Jun 29 14:34:09 <infobot> bitte, _maniac_
Jun 29 14:34:27 <erlehmann> ok
Jun 29 14:34:44 <erlehmann> thx
Jun 29 14:35:08 <_maniac_> infobot: ~combined
Jun 29 14:35:20 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: actually I still dont find those on ebay
Jun 29 14:35:28 <_maniac_> ~combined
Jun 29 14:35:28 <infobot> combined is probably the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Jun 29 14:35:33 <bencoh> haven't checked for some time, but ....
Jun 29 14:35:44 <erlehmann> my ex gf has one and my brother has one.
Jun 29 14:35:46 <bencoh> in europe at least I dont see many for 50e
Jun 29 14:35:52 <erlehmann> the one from my brother has some charging problems
Jun 29 14:36:04 <bencoh> (I bought mine 2.5y ago for 75 iirc)
Jun 29 14:36:14 <_maniac_> well, rip. both links for latest 1.3.1 combined image are dead.
Jun 29 14:36:18 <erlehmann> kek
Jun 29 14:36:30 <bencoh> those are mirrored
Jun 29 14:36:41 <erlehmann> _maniac_, wait
Jun 29 14:36:43 <erlehmann> i have
Jun 29 14:36:45 <_maniac_> yeah, but mirrors that infobot gave me are dead.
Jun 29 14:36:57 <bencoh> hmm, maybe not this specific image version but still
Jun 29 14:37:16 <erlehmann> _maniac_, bencoh http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Jun 29 14:37:22 <_maniac_> I have RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin want to have 2011 one
Jun 29 14:37:39 <_maniac_> ok, thank you erlehmann 
Jun 29 14:37:54 <bencoh> _maniac_: I dont think there is any difference if you use CSSU in the end
Jun 29 14:38:07 <erlehmann> i will save it in the wayback machine now
Jun 29 14:38:17 <erlehmann> happy to help
Jun 29 14:38:23 <_maniac_> bought n900 again after using featurephones for a year.
Jun 29 14:38:42 <_maniac_> and I heard there are some certificate shenannigans that require that latest image.
Jun 29 14:39:04 <_maniac_> (yeah, I am aware about setting date back to 2009 to overcome some of them)
Jun 29 14:39:57 <bencoh> _maniac_: iirc those changes were backported to CSSU
Jun 29 14:41:21 <Sicelo> and actually were implemented in CSSU before Nokia released that image :)
Jun 29 14:43:32 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, can you tell the bot that ~combined is at http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/ ?
Jun 29 14:43:48 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jun 29 14:43:50 <DocScrutinizer05> why?
Jun 29 14:44:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal combined
Jun 29 14:44:23 <infobot> "combined" is "the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/"
Jun 29 14:44:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined is also http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Jun 29 14:44:43 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Jun 29 14:44:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal combined
Jun 29 14:44:47 <infobot> "combined" is "the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/"
Jun 29 14:45:05 <erlehmann> thanks obama!
Jun 29 14:45:06 <erlehmann> :D
Jun 29 14:45:35 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, why? because the web is a papyrus scroll of burning paper. we need to transcribe faster than it burns.
Jun 29 14:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I just did a rewrite on fireproof steel
Jun 29 14:46:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Jun 29 14:46:23 <infobot> hmm... lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Jun 29 14:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined
Jun 29 14:47:42 <infobot> combined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Jun 29 14:47:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined
Jun 29 14:47:59 <infobot> from memory, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Jun 29 14:48:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, stll no truncation
Jun 29 14:51:49 <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05, thank you for all your work. if we ever meet again, let me invite you to a drink or something. :)
Jun 29 15:01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jun 29 15:12:31 <DocScrutinizer05> way more critical than the combined and vanilla files are mirrors of the Nikia base repos
Jun 29 15:12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia
Jun 29 15:12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ~muarf
Jun 29 15:13:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~repos
Jun 29 15:13:10 <infobot> well, repos is "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories, or see ~jrrepos
Jun 29 15:13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm feeling a tad reluctant to set up a mirror for those
Jun 29 15:14:35 <bencoh> there are a few other mirrors already :)
Jun 29 15:15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, but as said above, they are more critical than the fiasco files of which there must be 4 dozen copies available in the internets
Jun 29 15:17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess eventually I have to learn how to set up a mirror
Jun 29 15:21:19 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: it has been archived by archive.org
Jun 29 15:21:31 <bencoh> there a few public mirrors
Jun 29 15:21:37 <DocScrutinizer05> the repo? hardly
Jun 29 15:21:41 <bencoh> yes they have :)
Jun 29 15:22:06 <bencoh> mirrors.muarf.org/maemo has been, actually :)
Jun 29 15:22:12 <DocScrutinizer05> URL or it didn't happen
Jun 29 15:22:43 <bencoh> http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Maemo#N900_.28Fremantle.29
Jun 29 15:22:48 <bencoh> https://web.archive.org/web/20141124063939/http://mirrors.muarf.org/maemo/
Jun 29 15:29:05 <DocScrutinizer05> wow
Jun 29 15:30:37 <ceene> i try to maintain one myself too
Jun 29 15:30:51 <ceene> http://maemo.linenoise.info/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/
Jun 29 15:31:33 <ceene> i need to setup https for that thing
Jun 29 15:32:25 <erlehmann> why?
Jun 29 15:32:30 <erlehmann> packages are signed or not?
Jun 29 15:32:56 <ceene> why not?
Jun 29 15:33:00 <ceene> they are signed with an expired key
Jun 29 15:33:13 <erlehmann> can you re-sign them?
Jun 29 15:33:20 <ceene> i don't know
Jun 29 15:33:29 <ceene> i don't see the point, though
Jun 29 15:35:16 <bencoh> dont think we should
Jun 29 15:35:35 <bencoh> actually I wonder if there would be a difference if it was signed by an unknown key
Jun 29 15:35:50 <bencoh> if not then we have a real security issue
Jun 29 15:36:44 <bencoh> I hope it actually checks the sig even if key expired
Jun 29 15:37:07 <erlehmann> come on
Jun 29 15:37:09 <erlehmann> if you would check a sig
Jun 29 15:37:15 <erlehmann> would you bother checking further if it expired?
Jun 29 15:37:21 <erlehmann> that's like efficiency 101
Jun 29 15:37:31 <erlehmann> (i have not looked up if it did)
Jun 29 15:37:44 <ceene> what's the point of expired keys, anyhow?
Jun 29 15:37:46 <ceene> i mean
Jun 29 15:38:05 <ceene> would you trust my mirror more or less if it were signed by me, who you don't know who i am with a valid signature?
Jun 29 15:38:07 <bencoh> erlehmann: what's "wrong" with an expired key?
Jun 29 15:38:13 <ceene> or would you trust it more being signed with nokia's expired key?
Jun 29 15:38:19 <bencoh> ceene: the latter
Jun 29 15:38:25 <ceene> so do i
Jun 29 15:39:09 <bruce_lee> \(^_^)/ @all, trust? nokia is now part of microsoft...
Jun 29 15:39:20 <bencoh> :))
Jun 29 15:39:22 <bencoh> indeed
Jun 29 15:39:24 <erlehmann> hmm
Jun 29 15:39:38 <erlehmann> microsoft, who embed telemetry into your applications via their compiler
Jun 29 15:39:56 <bencoh> oh? that's funky
Jun 29 15:42:14 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 29 15:42:37 <KotCzarny> good times, community is more trusted than corpo ;)
Jun 29 15:43:48 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway the key issue is a lost case, and nothing we could do
Jun 29 15:44:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and yes, I think they signature is check(sum)ed even when the key is expired
Jun 29 15:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05> if not, set your system time to 1970 ;-)
Jun 29 16:50:47 <Sicelo> if while running `traceroute` command , the reply is "!C" .. what does this mean?
Jun 29 16:52:33 <Sicelo> context : i have n900 connected via vpn, as well as my home computer. computer can ssh into N900 without issue. but N900 cannot contact computer at all. no incoming firewall at the computer. traceroute on N900 stops with the above info
Jun 29 16:55:40 <xelo> Sicelo: from manpage:  "!C (precedence cutoff in effect"
Jun 29 16:56:06 <xelo> )
Jun 29 16:56:20 <Sicelo> i did check man apge .. didn't see that  :)
Jun 29 16:56:33 <Sicelo> anyway, what does that even mean, haha
Jun 29 16:56:46 <xelo> I have not the slightest idea
Jun 29 16:57:39 <xelo> Precedence  Cutoff In Effect  Sent by a router  when receiving a datagram whose Precedence value (priority) is  lower than the minimum allowed for the network at that time.
Jun 29 16:58:05 <xelo> Source: http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_ICMPv4DestinationUnreachableMessages-3.htm
Jun 29 16:58:12 <Sicelo> getting more and more fancy :)
Jun 29 16:58:38 <xelo> Are you sure you want to proceed? ;)
Jun 29 16:58:59 <Sicelo> NO
Jun 29 16:59:04 <Sicelo> :)
Jun 29 17:00:41 <Sicelo> i wouldn't mind too much if computer couldn't reach N900. i presently really need N900 -> PC to work
Jun 29 17:08:01 <xelo> do you require the vpn?
Jun 29 17:11:45 <L29Ah> 16:30:01]* Oksanaa wishes there was a side by side comparison of pros and cons of hot-air and microwave-oven
Jun 29 17:11:45 <L29Ah> i wasn't talking about a microwave oven
Jun 29 17:11:57 <L29Ah> and i'm quite sure it would kill the device
Jun 29 17:15:07 <KotCzarny> microwave oven? lol
Jun 29 17:15:14 <KotCzarny> that would be awesome ;)
Jun 29 17:15:26 <KotCzarny> dont forget to grab it on camera ;)
Jun 29 17:17:22 <Sicelo> xelo: yes, i do
Jun 29 17:19:40 <xelo> is some fancy ssh-reverse tunneling possible?
Jun 29 17:20:19 <Sicelo> i might have to do that as a last resort (just there are a number of hosts/ports that i wished to access)
Jun 29 17:23:54 <KotCzarny> xelo: yes
Jun 29 17:23:59 <KotCzarny> -L and -R
Jun 29 19:38:49 <bencoh> Sicelo: missing route, most probably, I'd say? :)
Jun 29 19:39:12 <bencoh> and/or mangled packet that pass through NAT when they shouldnt
Jun 29 19:40:50 <Sicelo> route is there. ip route get IP shows that the networking is looking for it through the vpn interface
Jun 29 19:41:25 <bencoh> routes both ways ?
Jun 29 19:42:27 <Sicelo> not sure i understand you : PC => N900 works. N900 => PC doesn't
Jun 29 19:43:09 <bencoh> isn't PC behind NAT?
Jun 29 19:43:24 <Sicelo> both N900 and PC are behind NAT
Jun 29 19:43:27 <bencoh> where does your vpn sits?
Jun 29 19:43:57 <Sicelo> vpn is on a public server that i can access from both N900 & PC. the connection establishes perfectly on both
Jun 29 19:44:13 <bencoh> ah
Jun 29 19:44:19 <bencoh> openvpn?
Jun 29 19:44:23 <Sicelo> yeah
Jun 29 19:44:40 <bencoh> PC running linux?
Jun 29 19:44:50 <bencoh> (or any *nix)
Jun 29 19:44:58 <Sicelo> :)
Jun 29 19:45:04 <Sicelo> yes, of course
Jun 29 19:45:20 <bencoh> then I'd check openvpn conf, then network/iptables conf on PC
Jun 29 19:45:30 <bencoh> openvpn has a few fancy options
Jun 29 19:45:51 <Sicelo> i use exactly the same config on N900 and PC
Jun 29 19:45:57 <Sicelo> same openvpn version too
Jun 29 19:46:05 <bencoh> server conf
Jun 29 19:52:37 <Sicelo> bencoh: yes, server config good too .. almost same as the clients
Jun 29 19:55:08 <bencoh> well there has to be something ... tcpdump on both sides ;)
Jun 29 19:55:14 <bencoh> did you check iptables as well?
Jun 29 20:02:57 <Sicelo> the iptables is confusing :p (server is not mine ... i just have root)
Jun 29 20:03:12 <Sicelo> tcpdump does not 'see' any packets coming in
Jun 29 20:03:28 <Sicelo> traceroute has that !C thing which doesn't really help
Jun 29 20:05:40 <Sicelo> but with the iptables, there's nothing specific "against" the PC's IP. since PC=>N900 works, i would assume it's reasonable to assume iptables isn't my problem
Jun 29 20:14:58 <Sicelo> wut! just worked now .. nothing changed in config at all
Jun 29 20:16:23 <Sicelo> and traceroute doesn't have that !c thing anymore. 
Jun 29 20:16:27 * Sicelo shrugs
Jun 29 20:29:13 <Oksanaa> L29Ah: Thank you, I must have been half-asleep to read "bake in an oven" as something related to microwave oven
Jun 29 20:30:12 * Oksanaa wonders what "Unknown EABI object attribute 34" means
Jun 29 20:37:36 <Oksanaa> NtEd is beautiful, but more broken than navit's gtk gui
Jun 29 20:38:11 * Oksanaa will have to get rid of functionality errors first, appearance second
Jun 29 20:44:51 <Oksanaa> It seems that there is alsa module snd_seq_midi missing?
Jun 29 21:13:21 <Oksanaa> Kernel with CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER?.. https://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7739
Jun 29 21:19:07 <KotCzarny> oksanaa, just use midi player
Jun 29 21:19:11 <KotCzarny> unless you are a musician
Jun 29 21:19:22 <KotCzarny> but even then you wouldnt be using n900 for that
Jun 29 21:22:54 <Sicelo> or can use oscp
Jun 29 21:23:15 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 29 21:23:20 <Sicelo> ;)
Jun 29 21:23:24 <KotCzarny> oscp got better recently ;)
Jun 29 21:28:46 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: http://www.unex.com.tw/wi-fi/dnma-92
Jun 29 21:28:46 <brolin_empey> I just sucessfully installed this model of Mini PCI Wireless LAN card in my solid-state Dell Latitude X1 to replace the original Intel card that stopped working with Windows 8.1 .
Jun 29 23:29:24 <Oksana> >> oksanaa, just use midi player unless you are a musician but even then you wouldnt be using n900 for that << I have installed the package for MIDI playback in Media Player, so that's not a problem (though I would dearly like to see a MIDI file with lyrics included, just to test Media Player's (in)ability to display lyrics of music)
Jun 29 23:31:12 <Oksana> Musicians use iPad (with foot pedal for page-turning) for displaying sheet music while playing. I am not a musician, but I would have liked ability to edit MIDI files on N900 (if only for writing down music like http://www.bachlund.org/Owls_an_Epitaph.htm in computer-readable format, instead of human-readable PDF)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 30 02:59:58 2016