**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 15 02:59:58 2016
Jul 15 03:39:42 <DocScrutinizer05> no, usually the tin-gold alloy mostly sticks to the pad even while cleaning it
Jul 15 03:40:19 <DocScrutinizer05> sore a tiny bit gets removed with the tin each time you clean the pad
Jul 15 03:40:26 <DocScrutinizer05> sure*
Jul 15 03:41:19 <DocScrutinizer05> basically you have gold plating to avouid the problems of either black copper which oxidizes, or tin plating which isn't flat
Jul 15 03:41:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and also oxidizes
Jul 15 03:42:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and PCB are basically not made to suffer multiple soldering on same pad. When you rework a PCB, gold plating is your least problem
Jul 15 03:44:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ((what to do if the shorts happen? clean the pads thoroughly again?)) yes, unless you can wipe out the shorts with your soldering iron
Jul 15 03:45:14 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter is easy when you can get to the solder spots with your iron. With USB jack this is a tad difficult to accomplish as you know
Jul 15 03:45:49 <DocScrutinizer05> (also covered in the EEVblog videos btw)
Jul 15 03:53:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ((>> solder paste << well, do not know what kind of flux is in here))  don't worry about the type of flux in solderpaste, that's even more secret that ordinary good flux. However you may safely assume it's suited for the purpose of solderpaste, which is electronics SMT mounting
Jul 15 03:54:08 <DocScrutinizer05> that stuff is terribly hygroscopic, so you need to store it in fridge and even then it only lasts 6 to max 12 months
Jul 15 03:55:20 <DocScrutinizer05> you can use it longer for simple solder tasks where a good bit of water vapor escaping doesn't matter
Jul 15 03:55:47 <DocScrutinizer05> which it would e.g. for BGA chips etc
Jul 15 03:56:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and even worse for large pads like LGA 
Jul 15 03:56:26 <DocScrutinizer05> you get so called voids there
Jul 15 03:56:47 <DocScrutinizer05> basically bubbles in the solder
Jul 15 04:09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: solder paste: https://youtu.be/b9FC9fAlfQE?t=1560
Jul 15 04:10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> clean out shorts: https://youtu.be/b9FC9fAlfQE?t=1278 (or use solder wick and flux, if you can't just wipe the short out)
Jul 15 04:14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> when using solderpaste for USBfix, you got the advantage that there are 4 relatively large mech support 'pins' that will stick in the solderpaste to fix the jack in place. Nevertheless you need to be ultracareful to correctly adjust the placement and then not accidentally move the component between adjustment ans got air reflow. Also don't use too high airflow for hot air or you simply will blow the component away
Jul 15 04:15:01 <DocScrutinizer05> *and hot air*
Jul 15 04:18:11 <Oksana> >> need to store it in fridge and even then it only lasts 6 to max 12 months << Doesn't look like shop stores it in the fridge. Anyway, do they have "best before" printed on them? Definitely should check it. Hot air and solder flux sound like something to be found at makerspace, and it will open a week later at best, so not going to hurry with getting solder paste.
Jul 15 04:23:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ((they have "best before" printed on them?)) should, yes. 6 months is after opening the package. Closed it lasts a tad longer
Jul 15 04:25:08 <DocScrutinizer05> also as long as not opened yet, it seems it's tolerable to store outside of fridge
Jul 15 04:26:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I also wonder if that stuff doesn't last longer when you store in in a jam jar together with an aggressive desiccant
Jul 15 04:27:11 <DocScrutinizer05> NB you must not freeze solder paste
Jul 15 04:29:42 <DocScrutinizer05> when there's simply no humidity at all in the air surrounding the solder paste container, how could it possibly absorb any humidity?
Jul 15 04:30:40 <DocScrutinizer05> vacuum however is prolly also no solution since that might make the liquids in the paste evaporate and paste dry out
Jul 15 05:47:04 <DocScrutinizer05> pali: freemangordon: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/694062/fd3edb04f5a5f2a8/
Jul 15 06:11:52 <Ras_Older> I hope #maemo people weren't in Nizza today :C
Jul 15 06:12:30 <DocScrutinizer05> why?
Jul 15 06:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> train?
Jul 15 06:13:02 <Ras_Older> There has been a terror attack.
Jul 15 06:13:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh shit
Jul 15 06:13:10 <Ras_Older> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/14/truck-crashes-bastille-day-crowd-nice-france/
Jul 15 10:07:30 * DocScrutinizer05 hopes for the day when TV and newspapers limit reports about terror to 10 min resp 0.5 pages per day. No other way to stop that shit than to ignore it
Jul 15 10:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> that doesn't mean authorities should ignore it, just that the whole purpose of terror is... terror, read fear and panic. And mass media are a vital part in achieving that effect
Jul 15 10:14:25 <DocScrutinizer05> when I hear politicans' statements "unbelievable, terrible, we're so hurt, this must end" and so on, and those statements sent in infinite loop via TV all day long, I can see terrorists highfiving each other and feeling they had another great success. They achieved exactly what they hoped for. PLEASE stop helping terrorists by excessive focus on their attacks in mass media
Jul 15 10:16:15 <DocScrutinizer05> compare: mass collision on highway, 30 fatalities, 120 injuries. Reports: one day 2h, then nothing
Jul 15 10:24:24 <DocScrutinizer05> or a real live example, very obvious: http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/zugunglueck-italien-103.html 27 fatalities, it doesn't even show up in TV news anymore, and not a single politician assures Italy "we are at your side in our united fight against >technical defects and/or flawed security policies in public transport<"
Jul 15 10:26:36 <DocScrutinizer05> the stone age jerk idiocy of striking back when somebody considered weaker hits you, but trying to ignore all bad things you suffer possibly caused by yourself
Jul 15 10:29:14 <DocScrutinizer05> and to multiply shock and awe, TV replays all reports of former terror attacks of the last 18+ months. Ohmy!
Jul 15 10:29:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno who's worse, terrorists or TV
Jul 15 10:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure they are the perfect team
Jul 15 10:34:40 <DocScrutinizer05> and the icing on the cace are those dumbasses who produce shit like "terror is not acceptable!" and "say no to terror" - I mean, do you *really* need to say that?
Jul 15 10:35:47 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks for telling me, I almost thought terror was smart and fine
Jul 15 10:39:44 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: http://i.imgur.com/yBfGymy.jpg
Jul 15 10:40:11 <DocScrutinizer05> err?
Jul 15 10:40:20 <kerio> #nice
Jul 15 10:40:34 <DocScrutinizer05> what do you think i'm talking about?
Jul 15 10:41:16 <kerio> http://i.imgur.com/NayzmJH.png
Jul 15 10:41:38 <kerio> and yeah it's kinda stupid
Jul 15 10:41:57 <kerio> i mean, i think that all countries have had their fair share of nutjobs driving
Jul 15 10:42:13 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, for sure
Jul 15 10:42:15 <kerio> see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZHathcQR8k
Jul 15 10:46:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it's particularly typical how they already agreed on that being a Islamist terror act, not knowing anything about motives and background
Jul 15 10:46:28 <DocScrutinizer05> mass media and politicians, my ass
Jul 15 10:47:43 <DocScrutinizer05> of course a headline "TERROR ATTACK!" sells better than "Terrible accident, background unclear yet"
Jul 15 10:48:20 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter would serve us better, long term, nevertheless
Jul 15 10:49:59 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: I thinking
Jul 15 10:50:11 <jon_y> this might be a way to completely work around terror
Jul 15 10:50:16 <jon_y> by simply ignoring it
Jul 15 10:51:50 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: isis might get demotivated when nobody even remembers what it did or stood for :)
Jul 15 10:52:10 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, since terrorists who can go on to do e.g. internet propaganda are "more valuable" for any terror organization that terrorists dying in a terror attack that nobody even notices
Jul 15 10:52:26 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jul 15 10:53:01 <jon_y> *isis bombs airport and claims responsibility*
Jul 15 10:53:04 <jon_y> media says
Jul 15 10:53:16 <jon_y> "naw, its just a gas leak, nothing suspicious at all"
Jul 15 10:53:28 <jon_y> "nope, no terrorists here"
Jul 15 10:55:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think spreading lies helps. But simply mentioning it on a sidenote, like "last week another terror act failed, since terrorists only killed 2 people while 5 of them died during the attack. This happened at airport. The damages from the incident will be fixed in two weeks" PERIOD, topic closed
Jul 15 10:57:20 <DocScrutinizer05> or "another idiot caused airplane delays, by assassinating himself next to terminal C. We're sorry for the inconvenience, businessback to narmal in 3 days"
Jul 15 10:57:35 <jon_y> I wouldn't be surprised they might completely suppress the news
Jul 15 10:57:50 <jon_y> "nope, nothing happen, get back in line citizen"
Jul 15 10:58:08 <jon_y> can't fear what you don't know even exist
Jul 15 10:58:43 <DocScrutinizer05> this will inevitably cause massive recoil since you never can hide news, and you trying to do so are new news of their own means
Jul 15 10:59:21 <DocScrutinizer05> this might work in russia, china or north korea
Jul 15 10:59:35 <DocScrutinizer05> or turkey
Jul 15 10:59:43 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: true
Jul 15 11:00:08 <jon_y> twitter forced the media to reveal the new years incident in Cologne 
Jul 15 11:00:40 <jon_y> but mostly because twits do not go through review and approvals 
Jul 15 11:02:25 <jon_y> what the media could do is disseminate disinformation
Jul 15 11:03:13 <jon_y> "There were no explosions. Rumors were spread by irresponsible parties attempting to disturb the peace"
Jul 15 11:03:24 <DocScrutinizer05> don't get me wrong, I'm feeling sorry for the 80+ (not 30) fatalities in Nice. But I'm honestly not worried at all about my own life, nor am I interested in hearing about the event all day long
Jul 15 11:03:32 <jon_y> and then round up everyone who says otherwise quietly 
Jul 15 11:03:51 <jon_y> I'm jaded about the news media in general
Jul 15 11:04:46 <DocScrutinizer05> apropos "explosion", one "eye witness" already claimed in TV interview there was an explosion in context of the Nice incident
Jul 15 11:05:21 <jon_y> I have already seen a news report blaming Pokemon Go
Jul 15 11:05:29 <jon_y> probably got retracted by now
Jul 15 11:05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL, that sounds scaringly plausible
Jul 15 11:06:32 <jon_y> the news media being news media, not sure what is true anymore 
Jul 15 11:10:17 <DocScrutinizer05> WOOOOOW after 3 hours a reporter in Paris has the brains to say the obvious: "it's still unclear *if* it was a terror attack, or simply some asshole going nuts. No links to terrorism or islamism were found so far"
Jul 15 11:19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Hollande: >>France won't stop fight against terrorism<<  Valls: >>terrorsts don't achieve their goals, France won't step back<< You fools! The terrorists already achieved their goals, you just explicitly confirmed that, in saying stuff like this and in what you said and what you plan to do
Jul 15 11:23:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and who started that whole mess? George DoubleWho Bush, with his idiotic Iraq war
Jul 15 11:27:28 <DocScrutinizer05> God save America and the whole world when that Donald will be next president
Jul 15 11:27:31 <jon_y> no sense crying over spilled milk, what is France going to do about the now?
Jul 15 11:27:56 <jon_y> build a wall :)
Jul 15 11:28:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I hope France is going to do the right thing. Get over it and go on 
Jul 15 11:28:25 <jon_y> oh well, at least Donald isn't a warmonger 
Jul 15 11:28:35 <jon_y> now the other candidate
Jul 15 11:28:47 <jon_y> is a warmonger
Jul 15 11:28:55 <DocScrutinizer05> have nail bands on public meeting areas to stop cars
Jul 15 11:29:28 <jon_y> modern cheavoux de frisse
Jul 15 11:30:06 <DocScrutinizer05> the other candidate? Hillary?
Jul 15 11:30:14 <jon_y> yeah
Jul 15 11:30:20 <jon_y> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_frise
Jul 15 11:30:54 <jon_y> she wants to go bomb some more
Jul 15 11:31:09 <jon_y> and possibly drag Russia into a proxy war
Jul 15 11:32:06 <DocScrutinizer05> possible, tbh I haven't heard much of her program yet#
Jul 15 11:34:14 <DocScrutinizer05> Trump however is completely nuts and unpredictable. Somebody stating he will pay the lawer and trial costs for those of his fans who go bash up some opponents... go figure
Jul 15 11:34:43 <DocScrutinizer05> or did he say "shoot them"?
Jul 15 11:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> In Germany he'd do time in jail just for this statement
Jul 15 11:36:02 <jon_y> well, American free speech laws sure are different
Jul 15 11:36:34 <jon_y> then again, he never explicitly condoned violence, so you can't nail him for incitement 
Jul 15 11:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik he did
Jul 15 11:37:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and re war with Russia I think he's also not shy
Jul 15 11:38:22 <jon_y> he already said he's willing to work with russia to calm down the middle east
Jul 15 11:38:46 <jon_y> I get the feeling Putin and him respect each other
Jul 15 11:39:02 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, both nuts
Jul 15 11:39:35 <jon_y> at this point, everyone is nuts :)
Jul 15 12:26:05 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL. Siva David: "We shall sit on the baby, or something"
Jul 15 12:32:47 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tonylovesziva.tumblr.com/image/14115122875
Jul 15 13:22:14 <KotCzarny> problem is, media is dismissing the nationality/connections of the attackers in case they are muslim etc
Jul 15 13:23:05 <KotCzarny> so its the other way round, its already hiding under the carpet
Jul 15 13:26:59 <jon_y> it breeds rumors, spreading like wildfire 
Jul 15 13:27:39 <jon_y> are you going to do the stasi thing and imprison people for spreading rumors?
Jul 15 13:28:22 <jon_y> and then everything was justified as hatespeech, the world is mad
Jul 15 13:29:45 <jon_y> maybe one day, everyone will be guilty of something
Jul 15 13:30:03 <jon_y> on a secret national dirt list
Jul 15 13:33:38 * DocScrutinizer05 points at own nick
Jul 15 13:34:30 <jon_y> yep, you're on the list somewhere :)
Jul 15 13:34:55 <DocScrutinizer05> F.Z. explained that Joe's Garage was about the concept that everybody needs to get guilty of something, so equality in society is preserved
Jul 15 13:35:45 * DocScrutinizer05 ... the white zone is for loading and unloading only ... if you have to load or unload, go to the white zone ...
Jul 15 13:38:11 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3cu8sDa90Y
Jul 15 13:48:19 <zGrr> terror is nothing new to europe.
Jul 15 13:48:35 <L29Ah> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/07/is-it-ok-to-send-a-police-robot-to-deliver-a-bomb-to-kill-an-active-shooter/
Jul 15 13:48:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/The_Central_Scrutinizer
Jul 15 13:49:00 <zGrr> we just had 25+ relatively quiet years.
Jul 15 13:49:15 <jon_y> the Goliath crawling bomb makes a come back :)
Jul 15 14:19:04 <DocScrutinizer05> the terror 25+ years ago was from an incredibly small group of european weirdos who actually had a however screwed society change perspective and usually a very clear target of upper class resp government members. They hoped for something 'realistic': change the society. - Nowadays terrorism became a sport for 1000s of religious fanatics that really have no concept at all (if you dismiss the bullshit of "kill all infidels" and that 70 
Jul 15 14:19:06 <DocScrutinizer05> virgins idiocy, as well as the sinister motivations of the spin doctors who drafted that pile of nonsense
Jul 15 14:20:22 <jon_y> as far as I can see, they're exporting angry unemployed males
Jul 15 14:20:36 <jon_y> hopefully they bother the west rather than them :)
Jul 15 14:20:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I think they even RE-export them
Jul 15 14:21:01 <KotCzarny> jon_y: nope. ban islam (its a religion of hate (of anyone who isnt muslim)), make immigrants assimilate to the culture they are coming to
Jul 15 14:21:13 <KotCzarny> im not against people, im against hate
Jul 15 14:21:26 <jon_y> that is one way
Jul 15 14:21:57 <KotCzarny> one and only way
Jul 15 14:22:01 <jon_y> whats a young man adrift at life to do?
Jul 15 14:22:05 <jon_y> join a cause!
Jul 15 14:22:32 <KotCzarny> islam is not a peaceful religion, its 'join us or die'
Jul 15 14:22:38 <jon_y> now pick a cause that conforms to your world view :)
Jul 15 14:22:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy, back when we smoked grass and made love
Jul 15 14:23:05 <KotCzarny> and thats not just a speach figure, they kill people (youtube is full of brutal beheadings etc)
Jul 15 14:23:36 <jon_y> perhaps humanity is not meant to be peaceful, the last decades were free from major wars
Jul 15 14:23:54 <jon_y> a young man's gotta make something of himself or die trying
Jul 15 14:24:34 <DocScrutinizer05> please understand that this has NOTHING, *absolutely* ZILCH to do with religion
Jul 15 14:24:51 <KotCzarny> still, western minds are full of lies, so they are not innocent
Jul 15 14:24:56 <KotCzarny> dont get me wrong
Jul 15 14:25:13 <KotCzarny> but at least they dont kill you outright
Jul 15 14:25:41 <KotCzarny> (for not falling down to pray to illusionary friends)
Jul 15 14:25:49 <jon_y> thats because the west has humanism
Jul 15 14:25:57 <DocScrutinizer05> try burglaring or breaking my door!
Jul 15 14:26:00 <jon_y> nobody else do humanism
Jul 15 14:26:10 <KotCzarny> jon_y: buddism?
Jul 15 14:26:22 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll learn about "not going to kil you outright"
Jul 15 14:26:23 <jon_y> KotCzarny: how common is Buddhism?
Jul 15 14:26:35 <KotCzarny> jon_y: not common in the west, common in the east
Jul 15 14:26:54 <jon_y> not really common in the East either 
Jul 15 14:27:04 <jon_y> not anymore anyway
Jul 15 14:27:32 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly could we stop discussing religions?
Jul 15 14:27:41 <jon_y> sure
Jul 15 14:27:59 <DocScrutinizer05> as if ISIS was about religion
Jul 15 14:29:34 <DocScrutinizer05> you could use any other nonsensical distinction criterion to create a "we vs them" and achieve exactly the same effect
Jul 15 14:30:08 <jon_y> hugs and rainbows aren't helping
Jul 15 14:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> they are white and we are green, they read from right to left and whe top down
Jul 15 14:30:56 <DocScrutinizer05> they are men err pigs and we are women
Jul 15 14:30:58 <jon_y> hmm
Jul 15 14:31:09 <DocScrutinizer05> they are rich and we are poor
Jul 15 14:31:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I could go on for hours
Jul 15 14:31:20 <jon_y> nah, too politically incorrect
Jul 15 14:32:08 <DocScrutinizer05> for ISIS alike idiot clubs? nothing is faintly politically incorrect enough for those
Jul 15 14:32:58 <DocScrutinizer05> imagine the vacuum in their skulls!
Jul 15 14:33:15 <KotCzarny> say what you want, they massacre people
Jul 15 14:33:16 <jon_y> tbh, I'm starting to see it in KotCzarny's way
Jul 15 14:33:19 <KotCzarny> and thats what counts
Jul 15 14:33:27 <KotCzarny> not all talkytalky in the western media
Jul 15 14:33:29 <jon_y> its not hate or anything
Jul 15 14:33:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm sure that hurts so terribly you need really strong 'medicine' to silence that pain
Jul 15 14:33:42 <jon_y> just a chore, to clean house
Jul 15 14:34:28 <jon_y> something to keep the peace perhaps, even for awhile
Jul 15 14:34:36 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Jul 15 14:34:43 <KotCzarny> ban islam,its bad
Jul 15 14:34:44 <DocScrutinizer05> what the F are you talking about?
Jul 15 14:34:52 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit
Jul 15 14:34:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you are bad
Jul 15 14:35:05 <KotCzarny> much worse than scientology
Jul 15 14:35:15 <KotCzarny> though those folks arent angels either
Jul 15 14:35:19 <jon_y> its simply something politically incorrect
Jul 15 14:35:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ban *all* religions, they are all identically nonsensical
Jul 15 14:35:22 <KotCzarny> but scale is different
Jul 15 14:35:31 <KotCzarny> x
Jul 15 14:35:51 <KotCzarny> people are spiritual, for some reason, religions just abuse it
Jul 15 14:36:22 <zGrr> baning religion never worked.
Jul 15 14:36:33 <KotCzarny> zgrr: germany banned scientology
Jul 15 14:36:36 <zGrr> it made things far worse.
Jul 15 14:36:48 <DocScrutinizer05> a spiritual person will understand that this is a thing that happens in their mind and only there, and nobody else has a saying
Jul 15 14:36:58 <zGrr> it was tried many times in 20th century.
Jul 15 14:37:20 <DocScrutinizer05> those 'religious' people are just lazy
Jul 15 14:37:29 <KotCzarny> yup
Jul 15 14:37:38 <KotCzarny> but still, religions abuse people
Jul 15 14:38:02 <DocScrutinizer05> or stupid, or both
Jul 15 14:38:07 <zGrr> there are terror groups. history shows that there were typicaly foreign governments behind them.
Jul 15 14:38:34 <zGrr> supplying terrorists with weapon, money and logistics.
Jul 15 14:38:46 <zGrr> i believe it is the same this time.
Jul 15 14:39:14 <DocScrutinizer05> zGrr: you can't ban religion, just like other drugs. But you don't need to legalize it
Jul 15 14:39:24 <joga> the stupid and hopeless will be exploited by evil and hopeless
Jul 15 14:39:50 <zGrr> soviet union was the major supporter of terror. everywhere - europe, middle east, asia.
Jul 15 14:40:11 <zGrr> when soviet union collapsed things got quiet.
Jul 15 14:40:18 <zGrr> ... for the time being.
Jul 15 14:40:46 <DocScrutinizer05> until Putine (SIC) invented new big Russia
Jul 15 14:41:36 <zGrr> he could be behind at least some of it. there are also other states supporting terrorists.
Jul 15 14:41:49 <DocScrutinizer05> but Al Qaida and ISIS and the other associated shit clearly got instantiated by doubleWho's Iraq war
Jul 15 14:42:30 <DocScrutinizer05> idiocy par excellance
Jul 15 14:42:33 <zGrr> do you remember attacks in cologne?
Jul 15 14:43:17 <zGrr> some people say, it was organized by syrian services and executed by shabiha.
Jul 15 14:43:41 <zGrr> and it doesnt seem that unlikely.
Jul 15 14:43:59 <DocScrutinizer05> what for? to stop immigration or what?
Jul 15 14:44:51 <zGrr> finnish police searched syrian refugees and they found derogatory german phrases transliterated in arabic alphabet.
Jul 15 14:44:57 <DocScrutinizer05> when this was a TLA action, it was a pretty stupid one
Jul 15 14:45:13 <zGrr> it worked.
Jul 15 14:45:22 <DocScrutinizer05> again, what for?
Jul 15 14:45:26 <zGrr> created chaos and fear.
Jul 15 14:45:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy
Jul 15 14:45:52 <zGrr> what was stupid, was massive german coverup of events.
Jul 15 14:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05> conspiracy theory
Jul 15 14:46:20 <zGrr> some serious counterinteligence is necessary.
Jul 15 14:46:35 <zGrr> yes, it is conspiracy theory.
Jul 15 14:48:11 <zGrr> but if you have thousands of people attacking plus some events in other cities and countries at the same time, it implies some coordination. 
Jul 15 14:48:12 <DocScrutinizer05> those events clearly were organized and coordinated. But I dare to say it's not at all easy to spot the culprits
Jul 15 14:48:41 <zGrr> and if there is coordination, there must be conspiracy of some sort by definition.
Jul 15 14:48:47 <zGrr> anyway.
Jul 15 14:49:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd not even rule out German Geheimdienst, or Pegida
Jul 15 14:49:09 <zGrr> i dont see refugees as economic problem. 
Jul 15 14:49:28 <zGrr> it is psychoogical problem.
Jul 15 14:49:43 <zGrr> and europe doesnt have refugee policy.
Jul 15 14:49:55 <zGrr> if it has, it is incredibly stupid one.
Jul 15 14:50:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you remember the track of refugees trying to cross border from Greece direction northwest. They all had fliers counterfeit signed "Norbert Bluem" iirc. Hardly it was a secret service activity, but either left idiots or even right idiots
Jul 15 14:51:57 <zGrr> europe has big problem of islamic insurgency among european muslims
Jul 15 14:52:15 <zGrr> but it can be worked out.
Jul 15 14:52:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm all on same page with you that Europe has no plan and policy for immigration, neither recent nor long term. And Bangladesh will take another 10 to 20 years until finally flooded by rising seas
Jul 15 14:53:36 <zGrr> if the governments continue to do nothing it will only get worse and you are going to have massive attacks against minorities and will create huge problems with right-wing insurgency.
Jul 15 14:53:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jul 15 14:54:17 <zGrr> possibly bigger problem with more serious implications for the continent than islamic terrorism itself.
Jul 15 14:54:47 <zGrr> attack in nice was failure of the police.
Jul 15 14:55:43 <zGrr> there could be far less victims if they implemented physical barriers preventing speeding car hiting the crowd.
Jul 15 14:56:08 <zGrr> they have such preventive measures in the UK.
Jul 15 14:56:34 <DocScrutinizer05> (Bangladesh) then you don't have a 5 or 10 million refugees from Syria, you have a 160 Million that *must* find a new place to literally stand the ground
Jul 15 14:56:46 <zGrr> they have even software and geodatabase to set the bariers up for mass events. 
Jul 15 14:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> (barriers) what I said a 6h ago
Jul 15 14:57:47 <zGrr> it does not prevent car hitting the crowd, but it prevents from hitting with such speed and devastation. 
Jul 15 14:58:00 <DocScrutinizer05> nail bands
Jul 15 14:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> roll across street in seconds
Jul 15 14:58:20 <zGrr> i dont know, but they have efective solutions
Jul 15 14:58:46 <joga> you can never really stop someone from causing harm no matter the barriers you set up
Jul 15 14:58:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Jul 15 14:59:19 <joga> would be more effective removing the cause to do harm, but heh, easier said than done with all the conflicts and hate around the world
Jul 15 14:59:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you also hardly can stop anybody from kicking somebody in the head
Jul 15 14:59:28 <zGrr> but it will limit the harm dramatically. there would be far less victims.
Jul 15 14:59:39 <joga> nah then they would just steal a nuke next
Jul 15 15:00:12 <joga> desperate people will use desperate measures anyway, if needed
Jul 15 15:00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry that's nonsense
Jul 15 15:00:39 <joga> which?
Jul 15 15:01:14 <DocScrutinizer05> that guy was prolly a single person going nuts, and he hardly could steal a tank, not to think of a nuklear weapon
Jul 15 15:01:26 <joga> yeah, him, sure
Jul 15 15:01:33 <DocScrutinizer05> he wouldn't have known what to do with one when you delivered it to his home
Jul 15 15:01:50 <zGrr> whatever. they should start preparations how to respond to massive muslim insurgency.
Jul 15 15:02:04 <joga> but should all countries go into super defense mode, the people who want to do harm would up their game somehow
Jul 15 15:02:07 <zGrr> which is increasingly possible.
Jul 15 15:02:16 <KotCzarny> still, eu wants to have nannynazi state similar to the one in us, and spreading fear is one way to authorize it
Jul 15 15:02:19 <DocScrutinizer05> again, don't call thoise idiots muslims, they aren't
Jul 15 15:02:35 <joga> they're crazy and mislead
Jul 15 15:02:48 <KotCzarny> they use islam as a tool
Jul 15 15:03:07 <KotCzarny> and they get their own idiots to use
Jul 15 15:03:09 <DocScrutinizer05> they are as much muslims as ku kluks klan is katholic
Jul 15 15:03:19 <zGrr> it doesnt matter who they are. it is important to prevent them from doing too much harm.
Jul 15 15:03:34 <KotCzarny> islam brainwashes their victims with fear of being cast out
Jul 15 15:03:37 <joga> extremists are sickening no matter the crap they believe in
Jul 15 15:03:41 <KotCzarny> so they will do what being told
Jul 15 15:04:02 <joga> you mean like extremist christian sects?
Jul 15 15:04:07 <KotCzarny> yup
Jul 15 15:04:12 <KotCzarny> every extremism is bad
Jul 15 15:04:24 <KotCzarny> and there are a lot of badness in the world
Jul 15 15:04:37 <KotCzarny> and .eu is being actively stirred 
Jul 15 15:04:51 <KotCzarny> we will see when and what comes out of it
Jul 15 15:09:16 <zGrr> worst terrorists are the governments. and you cant just stop the governments from doing harm to civilians in other countries.
Jul 15 15:09:24 <zGrr> not that easily.
Jul 15 21:25:36 <luke-jr> Pali: https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kdepim.git&a=commitdiff&h=5cc79e9246caee7875bd640bd6264476bb7330ce&hp=19c3e6a3aa2d2a09dc89a3a4845ae3ca3bdd589f&o=plain
Jul 15 21:26:34 <Pali> what is that patch doing?
Jul 15 22:05:59 <luke-jr> Pali: fixing a bug that prevents sending encrypted email to people whose PGP keys you might not trust
Jul 15 22:06:23 <luke-jr> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=328311
Jul 15 22:06:25 <povbot> 04Bug 328311: was not found.
Jul 15 22:06:36 <Pali> ah, great fix for that stupid bug
Jul 15 22:11:25 <Pali> luke-jr: not applicable... that file is part of akonadi version of kmail2
Jul 15 22:12:01 <Pali> it is not present in kmail1
Jul 15 22:14:12 <luke-jr> hmm, I experience the bug in kmail1 :<
Jul 15 23:54:46 <DocScrutinizer05> a bomb??`
Jul 15 23:54:52 <joga> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CncKGBpWAAkrtDL.jpg
Jul 15 23:55:12 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jul 15 23:55:26 <DocScrutinizer05> wait...
Jul 15 23:55:51 <DocScrutinizer05> can't read the map :-/
Jul 15 23:56:11 <DocScrutinizer05> *might* be right
Jul 15 23:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess I hate military less than this ergomane
Jul 15 23:58:16 <DocScrutinizer05> though.. parliament != ergowahn
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