**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 12 03:00:01 2017
Jan 12 03:39:15 <Vajb> bencoh: i have pidgin statusmenu plugin so it sits neatly on a tray. Also i installed maemo notification plugin for pidgin and it works too. So far pidgin has been working very well.
Jan 12 04:01:17 <DocScrutinizer05> using pidgin for IRC is a special form of love for suffering
Jan 12 04:07:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Leopold von Sacher-Masoch will blame you for topping him
Jan 12 04:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLQzaLr1enE
Jan 12 04:11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe rather this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdbtZqEyE7U 
Jan 12 04:14:11 <Vajb> i never used pidgin for irc. Tho it might work
Jan 12 05:46:09 <Michael_a380> What's a good way to access 'surveillance camera, live stream'? I assume it's on a WLAN.
Jan 12 05:49:49 <Michael_a380> It's a specific camera, facing a 'public car park'.
Jan 12 06:09:19 <Vajb> mplayer?
Jan 12 06:09:52 <Vajb> don't ask me how to ;)
Jan 12 06:28:03 <Michael_a380> ty :)
Jan 12 06:35:58 <joga> surveillance camera... wlan... public car park, sounds like a cam you'll find in shodan
Jan 12 06:36:43 <joga> fail anyway if it's accessible to you and you didn't install it :p
Jan 12 06:41:16 <Michael_a380> The vendor would be the landlord (commercial).
Jan 12 06:44:14 <Michael_a380> My family was victim to fraud. We lent money to a man for business, car, boat. He then absconded from his residential & commercial residence, and deleted his phone accounts. We've done some court proceedings. The court recognises the debt, but the criminal has made no payments. Debt collection/asset seizure is difficult, where by proving his ownership. After 2 years, we found his new commercial residence.
Jan 12 06:47:11 <joga> this has to do with the camera?
Jan 12 06:49:15 <Michael_a380> yep, trying to identify the criminal's assets.
Jan 12 06:57:05 <Michael_a380> The laws are pathetic, police wont help. Legal advice is to hire a PI, which we can't afford. If he relises we found him (by us surving him court documents), he would dissappear or do "fraudulent conveyance".
Jan 12 06:57:25 <Michael_a380> *serving
Jan 12 07:07:31 <joga> Michael_a380, have you taken into account that accessing the camera is (likely to be) illegal for you
Jan 12 07:08:19 <joga> and someone could consider it "hacking" or similar silly stuff even if it didn't have any password and is recording a public place
Jan 12 07:09:31 <joga> also, someone could consider vigilante surveillance of an individual quite creepy
Jan 12 07:12:08 <joga> that said, if legal advice is "hire a PI", well, I dunno
Jan 12 07:14:29 <Michael_a380> Things will work out eventually. Just looking to speed up the process. 
Jan 12 07:14:45 <joga> to me it sounds weird that by declaring you're a PI by profession you get the right to stalk people, or maybe they just do office work or google around, dunno. I've never met a person in that line of work and here it kinda sounds like something out of a movie and not a real job
Jan 12 07:15:38 <joga> though now that I think of it, a rich friend of mine had some family detective at his parents' place... he actually had an office at their (huge) house
Jan 12 07:15:44 <joga> maybe that qualifies
Jan 12 07:15:45 <joga> :)
Jan 12 07:16:44 <Michael_a380> Yeah, doughy ideas collate when dealing with a dodgy criminal  :/
Jan 12 07:19:05 <Michael_a380> The camera is overseeing a 'permanently parked vehicle' that he promised (in writing) to give us. "Better keep an eye on it, make sure it's safe".
Jan 12 07:23:12 <Michael_a380> If I went to the "commercial site", would it be easy to get a "wlan ip" to put into shodan?
Jan 12 07:23:57 <Michael_a380> *public ip
Jan 12 07:33:35 <joga> Michael_a380, well, depends. those things (ip cams) are so awful security-wise on average that even if it was in a protected wifi, it could well have been pwned in couple of minutes if it had internet access at any point
Jan 12 07:34:15 <joga> but unless it has a public ip address, it's likely not found by shodan just like that
Jan 12 07:34:51 <joga> (not that I know much about how shodan works)
Jan 12 07:35:12 <Michael_a380> thanks
Jan 12 07:35:14 <joga> I do know about ip cams though and how awful they are, and how awfully they're handled and installed :p
Jan 12 07:36:36 <Michael_a380> We've installed some sort of CCTV system and the usability is pathetic
Jan 12 07:37:19 <Michael_a380> I'll try if mplayer can be used with our system, thanks
Jan 12 07:38:31 <joga> vlc and mplayer/mpv etc. should be able to play rtsp streams, you can perhaps find out the right url for the camera with google
Jan 12 07:38:53 <joga> or from the web admin thing...
Jan 12 07:41:08 <Michael_a380> cheers
Jan 12 10:02:00 <Oksanaa> Any idea how telepathy-idle IRC client splits long messages? What's the character limit?
Jan 12 10:02:57 <bencoh> standard irc character limit I'd say
Jan 12 10:03:09 <bencoh> (which is ... 256, or 512, or some sensible limit like that)
Jan 12 10:03:36 <KotCzarny> irc server sends the msg limit on connect
Jan 12 10:12:43 <Oksanaa> Is there a limit on message length? Like, no IRC server is allowed go give limit below 256 or above 512? Something like that? And does the limit apply to message length only, or together with sender's name?
Jan 12 10:13:02 <KotCzarny> i would think there isnt such thing specified in the rfc
Jan 12 10:39:26 <Vajb> does newest omp have feature to stable audio levels os different files?
Jan 12 10:39:40 <Vajb> stabilize...
Jan 12 10:39:47 <KotCzarny> you mean 'normalize'
Jan 12 10:41:05 <kerio> >implying irc networks care about "rfc"
Jan 12 10:43:03 <Vajb> KotCzarny: i mean that they sound about the same level nevertheless the quality
Jan 12 10:43:35 <KotCzarny> you cant fix bad bitrate encoding
Jan 12 11:03:16 <Vajb> well, atleast ipod can ;)
Jan 12 14:06:22 <Michael_a330> N9, worth buying?  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/291998141306
Jan 12 14:37:12 <Wizzup> 5$ srsly
Jan 12 15:24:52 <KotCzarny> Michael_a330: beware fakes
Jan 12 15:25:12 <KotCzarny> and remember, if its too good to be true, its a fake
Jan 12 15:26:42 <Vajb> hmm i wonder if my trackpoint covers r fake. Just made an order of 10pcs for 1£
Jan 12 15:27:28 <KotCzarny> vajb, doesnt matter, but get concave ones
Jan 12 15:27:35 <KotCzarny> much better than domes
Jan 12 15:27:44 <Vajb> well too late now
Jan 12 15:27:53 <KotCzarny> for my old tp560z i even made one from pencil rubbe
Jan 12 15:27:54 <KotCzarny> ;)
Jan 12 15:27:56 <KotCzarny> *rubber
Jan 12 15:28:07 <Vajb> hehe good innovation
Jan 12 15:28:39 <KotCzarny> it works fine, because all you need is to assure its not slipping, and be able to fit snuggly
Jan 12 15:30:47 <KotCzarny> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thinkpad_trackpoint_caps.JPG
Jan 12 15:30:52 <KotCzarny> its the second from the left
Jan 12 15:31:06 <KotCzarny> imo the best one
Jan 12 16:09:59 <Vajb> yes i saw atleast three different versions
Jan 12 16:21:45 <bencoh> Vajb: what about adding contacts in telegram btw?
Jan 12 16:21:52 <bencoh> in pidgin*
Jan 12 16:25:12 <Vajb> bencoh: well i didn't add any i let them add me :)
Jan 12 16:25:30 <Vajb> but if ur friend creates username i suppose it should work too
Jan 12 16:25:45 <Vajb> or use desktop version and add them there
Jan 12 16:26:25 <bencoh> I'm not sure it would show in pidgin then
Jan 12 16:26:38 <bencoh> I dont remember how I managed to add a contact, I think I fiddled with config file
Jan 12 16:29:06 <Vajb> i hope it'll get better when they update it ;)
Jan 12 16:31:24 <bencoh> afaiu they can't get much better regarding that specific issue
Jan 12 16:32:03 <Vajb> so it is more like pidgins feature
Jan 12 16:32:08 <bencoh> because of https://github.com/majn/telegram-purple/issues/187
Jan 12 16:32:42 <bencoh> and regarding history / conversations, did you manage to have history include pictures?
Jan 12 16:35:06 <Vajb> i think so
Jan 12 16:35:21 <Vajb> and if not they r shown in telegram folder
Jan 12 16:35:48 <bencoh> yeah
Jan 12 16:38:50 <Vajb> it seems they r not shown in logs
Jan 12 16:38:54 <Vajb> but smileys r
Jan 12 16:38:59 <Vajb> :D
Jan 12 16:39:02 <bencoh> smileys are inband :)
Jan 12 16:39:15 <bencoh> (they're "just" text)
Jan 12 16:39:55 <bencoh> but ... okay, means you got the same results ... thx :)
Jan 12 16:40:35 <Vajb> sure i didn't do any magic just installed it and copied to right folder since install put it in /
Jan 12 16:42:04 <bencoh> I wonder if patching the pidgin history plugin to get it to display images would be easy
Jan 12 16:42:08 <bencoh> maybe it would
Jan 12 16:42:30 <Vajb> no idea
Jan 12 16:42:43 <bencoh> and make pidgin a bit more maemo-friendly (or small screen friendly), actually
Jan 12 16:43:07 <Vajb> but it is irrelevant to me think i'll put pidgin folder to tracker so it will show pics in gallery
Jan 12 16:43:26 <bencoh> right, but having it show in conversations as well would be nice
Jan 12 16:43:31 <bencoh> (maybe)
Jan 12 16:44:01 <Vajb> well true, but if u truly value ur friends u remember all conversations haha
Jan 12 16:44:11 <bencoh> krkr
Jan 12 16:44:32 <bencoh> tbh I hardly use it since pretty much no one around is on telegram
Jan 12 16:45:08 <Vajb> i use it weekly
Jan 12 16:46:39 <Vajb> im in one group and have 3 friends using it
Jan 12 16:46:54 <Vajb> well one is more than friend, but anyways
Jan 12 16:48:08 <Vajb> guess we r early adapters here
Jan 12 17:05:20 <NeKit> would it in theory work if Hildon-Desktop is forced to render directly (though Android's hwcomposer or surfaceflinger) instead of rendering to Xorg?
Jan 12 17:07:10 <bencoh> hildon-desktop isn't the only graphic component there - basically every graphical app would need to do the same
Jan 12 17:08:07 <bencoh> but I guess that could be achieved somehow, either by using gtk3+wayland and the same thing they used to have wayland run on top of android
Jan 12 17:08:13 <NeKit> does every graphical app involve OpenGL or just 2D pixmaps?
Jan 12 17:08:36 <bencoh> most maemo apps are qt or gtk2
Jan 12 17:08:41 <bencoh> qt4* or gtk2
Jan 12 17:08:51 <bencoh> some are sdl/opengl-based
Jan 12 17:09:08 <bencoh> a tiny few of them are x11/xft based
Jan 12 17:11:30 <freemangordon> NeKit: h-d is using clutter, so it is up to it to clutter, not h-d
Jan 12 17:11:49 <NeKit> and clutter is then using cogl
Jan 12 17:11:56 <freemangordon> yes
Jan 12 17:12:09 <freemangordon> but, clutter has more drivers
Jan 12 17:12:18 <freemangordon> or "backends"
Jan 12 17:12:31 <bencoh> does it have a wayland backend?
Jan 12 17:12:35 <freemangordon> yes
Jan 12 17:12:39 <freemangordon> iirc
Jan 12 17:12:46 <bencoh> then I guess the nemo-like route might be do-able
Jan 12 17:13:02 <freemangordon> and what about the apps?
Jan 12 17:13:17 <bencoh> gtk3 apps would work, same for qt5
Jan 12 17:13:20 <bencoh> qt4/gtk2, dunno ...
Jan 12 17:13:21 <freemangordon> bencoh: also, afaik wayland does not support atoms
Jan 12 17:13:31 <bencoh> atoms? intel atoms?
Jan 12 17:13:35 <freemangordon> X atoms
Jan 12 17:13:38 <bencoh> aah
Jan 12 17:13:40 <bencoh> yeah
Jan 12 17:13:47 <freemangordon> and they are used all over the place
Jan 12 17:14:02 <freemangordon> portrait mode, z-ordeting, etc
Jan 12 17:14:12 <freemangordon> *z-ordering
Jan 12 17:14:34 <bencoh> hmm, actually hildon-desktop (at least mb2, the wm) probably wouldn't exist as of now in a wayland context :D
Jan 12 17:14:55 <freemangordon> ?
Jan 12 17:15:14 <bencoh> if hildon-desktop refers to the window manager, then it already doesn't fit wayland
Jan 12 17:15:33 <bencoh> wayland needs a compositor, which isn't exactly the same thing
Jan 12 17:15:34 <NeKit> not sure how much of hack is it, but until proper Wayland support, what if clutter/cogl renders Xorg windows directly to screen through EGL instead of Xorg
Jan 12 17:15:34 <freemangordon> wayland has it's own WM?
Jan 12 17:15:58 <freemangordon> NeKit: isn;t that called "compositing"?
Jan 12 17:16:02 <bencoh> but afaiu WMs as we know it don't really exist
Jan 12 17:17:32 <NeKit> yes, but basically it would be compositor => hwcomposer instead of compositor => Xorg => fbdev
Jan 12 17:18:45 <freemangordon> NeKit: afaik, right now clutter/cogl draw through E/GL, not through Xorg. Might be wrong though
Jan 12 17:19:51 <freemangordon> i.e. - WM translates window's contents to textures which are then drawn using GL
Jan 12 17:21:18 <NeKit> cogl has support for multiple window systems, but cogl-winsys-egl-x11 requires Xorg support from OpenGL driver
Jan 12 17:21:33 <freemangordon> ah, I see, yes
Jan 12 18:13:43 <ravelo> sicelo-, thanks for info about extkbd package. I will try it.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 13 03:00:01 2017