**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 15 03:00:01 2017
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 15 09:15:16 2017
Feb 15 12:18:07 <Sicelo> lol .. oftc/#debian being spammed by someone who hates Poettering/Systemd
Feb 15 12:50:20 <KotCzarny> a bit sad
Feb 15 12:51:10 <Juesto> gg
Feb 15 12:55:42 <sixwheeledbeast> All this trolling doesn't help really does it, just throws more fuel on the fire.
Feb 15 12:57:41 <KotCzarny> swb: but most people are too dumb for meaningful arguments anyway 'because debian and everyone uses it 11!!11one!'
Feb 15 12:57:55 <KotCzarny> s/dumb/deaf/
Feb 15 12:57:55 <infobot> KotCzarny meant: swb: but most people are too deaf for meaningful arguments anyway 'because debian and everyone uses it 11!!11one!'
Feb 15 12:59:46 <KotCzarny> and it's especially sad when some of those people are distro maintainers
Feb 15 13:03:35 <Sicelo> afaik there was a public vote as far as debian is concerned?
Feb 15 13:06:34 <KotCzarny> sicelo, public majority isn't the best decision maker, you know
Feb 15 13:07:16 <Sicelo> oh .. no idea  :-) 
Feb 15 13:07:26 <Sicelo> what is the best?
Feb 15 13:11:24 <KotCzarny> peer review of people experienced in particular area
Feb 15 13:14:00 <Sicelo> makes sense .. but is it realistical? i.e. is it something really doable, or it's an ideal?
Feb 15 13:15:09 <Sicelo> s/tical/tic/
Feb 15 13:15:10 <infobot> Sicelo meant: makes sense .. but is it realistic? i.e. is it something really doable, or it's an ideal?
Feb 15 13:40:38 <KotCzarny>   sicelo, sure, kernel patches are usually accepted that way
Feb 15 14:17:41 <Sicelo> hmm
Feb 15 14:44:48 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing wrong with systemd per se. Just why the heck it needs incompatible API that everybody and their dog link against? So you're forced to have systemd installed to get e.g. KDE or Gnome desktop
Feb 15 14:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> let alone systemd is pathetic design and code quality, unbearable for PID1. Also a monster while every sane sysop wants a *lean* process for PID1
Feb 15 14:47:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ~nosystemd
Feb 15 14:47:06 <infobot> i guess nosystemd is https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/
Feb 15 15:25:10 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/systemd_is_not_magic_security_dust
Feb 15 16:13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen pali
Feb 15 16:13:21 <infobot> pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 18h 4m ago, saying: '(in past there were problem with that compression because of patents)'.
Feb 15 16:13:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen freemangordon
Feb 15 16:13:31 <infobot> freemangordon <~ivo@46.249.74.23> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 23h 25m 36s ago, saying: ':)'.
Feb 15 16:32:50 <bencoh> :)
Feb 15 17:42:11 <sixwheeledbeast> I second Doc. I have no issue with systemd but I want freedom to choose the system I want
Feb 15 18:17:35 <DocScrutinizer05> also:
Feb 15 18:17:38 <DocScrutinizer05> newbie:/etc/zypp/repos.d.bak_pre_suse42.2_JR # shutdown -r 60
Feb 15 18:17:39 <DocScrutinizer05> Failed to set wall message, ignoring: Unknown method 'SetWallMessage' or interface 'org.freedesktop.login1.Manager'.
Feb 15 18:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Failed to call ScheduleShutdown in logind, proceeding with immediate shutdown: Unknown method 'ScheduleShutdown' or interface 'org.freedesktop.login1.Manager'.
Feb 15 18:17:42 <DocScrutinizer05> newbie:/etc/zypp/repos.d.bak_pre_suse42.2_JR # reboot
Feb 15 18:17:44 <DocScrutinizer05> Connection to newbie.neo900.org closed by remote host.
Feb 15 18:18:26 <DocScrutinizer05> W*T*F?!??
Feb 15 18:25:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, should have been shutdown -r +60, but...
Feb 15 18:26:00 <DocScrutinizer05> logind my ass
Feb 15 19:00:19 <DocScrutinizer05> >> Yet what I’m hearing is that with GNOME v3 the goal is to promote their “brand” and make it dominant, in part by greatly limiting what users can change on their own systems, and partly by breaking or simply removing whatever support they’re no longer promoting as ‘The Way’. The reach of this selfish and narrow-sighted development goes beyond GNOME and affects GTK apps in general.<< https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/
Feb 15 19:00:21 <DocScrutinizer05> gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/
Feb 15 19:00:25 <DocScrutinizer05> https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/
Feb 15 19:00:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry
Feb 15 19:02:06 <DocScrutinizer05> strange thing: I noticed this very attitude ever since I first touched Gnome
Feb 15 19:07:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Gnome, freedesktop, systemd, and buntkuh. They all understood the concept of "when you don't pay for it then *you* are the product" and blackhat hacker in https://xkcd.com/792/
Feb 15 19:09:23 <DocScrutinizer05> aka the very simple concept of "nothing id for free, ever. Some stuff is free for you since you (are supposed to) contribute to it"
Feb 15 19:09:41 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ id / is /
Feb 15 19:09:42 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: aka the very simple concept of "nothing is for free, ever. Some stuff is free for you since you (are supposed to) contribute to it"
Feb 15 19:13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> and tell me: why the fsck I need bullcrap like logind on a *server*??
Feb 15 19:15:16 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-logind.html  MY ASS!
Feb 15 19:16:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I literally want NOTHING of all that shit
Feb 15 19:17:36 <DocScrutinizer05> multiseat, what an anacronism
Feb 15 19:23:39 <DocScrutinizer05> the only reason to have logind on every damn server is the fact that systemd doesn't scale
Feb 15 19:26:40 <DocScrutinizer05> gor a multitude of reasons, first and foremost the incompatible APIs and the intra_systemd*_crap dependencies this creates, as well as the laziness of distro maintainers to take any care about providing configs that e.g. allow systemd but without logind, or any other arbitrary permutations
Feb 15 19:47:10 <Wizzup> | grep -v systemd
Feb 15 19:47:51 <TheKit> how about logind on phone? :)
Feb 15 19:55:09 <DocScrutinizer05> won't fly on maemo since we can't use systemd - it's incompatible to traditional use of cgroups by core system
Feb 15 19:56:15 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo has its own (better) means to accomplish all that systemd does
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 16 03:00:01 2017