**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 24 03:00:00 2017
Mar 24 03:02:18 <L29Ah> some big file is open and removed?
Mar 24 03:03:07 <L29Ah> files won't get removed before every process stops using them
Mar 24 03:43:32 <totalizator> I have rebooted the n900 many times since I discovered this issue
Mar 24 03:47:56 <L29Ah> then maybe you have a huge number of <4kB files?
Mar 24 04:03:14 <totalizator> like above Free inodes: 92879 and the total files count is 25388
Mar 24 04:12:40 <Maxdamantus> What does normal du say?
Mar 24 04:13:37 <L29Ah> are you sure you ran ncdu as root?
Mar 24 04:14:21 <totalizator> du: /home/opt                 2.0G      1.8G     55.3M  97% /opt
Mar 24 04:14:36 <totalizator> as root, ofc
Mar 24 04:14:38 <Maxdamantus> totalizator: that looks like df
Mar 24 04:14:50 <totalizator> oh gosh, sry
Mar 24 04:15:29 <Maxdamantus> Oh, right.
Mar 24 04:15:44 <Maxdamantus> Usually maemo has a single partition for /home
Mar 24 04:16:00 <totalizator> du -sh /opt 
Mar 24 04:16:01 <Maxdamantus> as you can see, /opt is jst bind-mounted from there.
Mar 24 04:16:06 <totalizator> 833.8M  /opt
Mar 24 04:16:43 <Maxdamantus> and `df` tells you the usage of the entire filesystem, not just a single bind mot (since that doesn't really have a particular usage)
Mar 24 04:17:53 <Maxdamantus> You'd probably see around 1.8G if you did `du -shx /home`
Mar 24 04:20:48 <totalizator> gah, you're right
Mar 24 04:21:06 <totalizator> 1.8G    /home
Mar 24 04:21:16 <totalizator> time to hunt some files
Mar 24 04:22:19 <totalizator> fortunately ncdu has -x as well
Mar 24 04:22:28 <totalizator> thank you so much Maxdamantus 
Mar 24 04:22:40 <Maxdamantus> alternatively, just get rid of the FAT32 mount in /home/user/MyDocs and use a larger ext partition.
Mar 24 04:23:08 <Maxdamantus> assuming you're comfortable doing those operations and don't use the standard UMS mode.
Mar 24 04:24:05 <totalizator> well, what I should really do is to reflash my n900
Mar 24 04:24:18 <totalizator> I have never, ever did it before
Mar 24 04:25:24 <totalizator> .modest cache ~700MB >->o
Mar 24 04:25:32 <Maxdamantus> Don't think I've reflashed since initially getting it either.
Mar 24 04:25:53 <Maxdamantus> other than the kernel partition.
Mar 24 04:26:04 <totalizator> it simply works, right? ;)
Mar 24 04:27:12 <Maxdamantus> Well, I have everything under a big ext4 partition and just maintain it if necessary by booting into a system that doesn't need the eMMC.
Mar 24 04:27:30 <Maxdamantus> sort of like you would a normal computer.
Mar 24 04:30:17 <totalizator> I should definitely try this
Mar 24 04:31:14 <totalizator> so I can simply remove the FAT partition, extend the rest and that's it?
Mar 24 04:32:12 <Maxdamantus> Almost. Need to also fix fstab and change the init script that autogenerates it.
Mar 24 04:32:23 <Maxdamantus> or use chattr to make it immutable.
Mar 24 04:33:44 <Zungo> hey
Mar 24 04:33:53 <Zungo> its juesto
Mar 24 04:33:57 <Zungo> or juest
Mar 24 04:34:06 <Zungo> sorry for going away ;p
Mar 24 04:34:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ncdu?
Mar 24 04:34:14 <totalizator> right; let me lurk into the forum then; thanks again
Mar 24 04:34:38 <totalizator> DocScrutinizer05: ncdu is MAGIC
Mar 24 04:34:46 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of
Mar 24 04:34:53 <totalizator> haha, no wai
Mar 24 04:35:14 <L29Ah> ncdu is love
Mar 24 04:35:29 <totalizator> it comes handy when you need to delete some files right away
Mar 24 04:35:52 <totalizator> or jump into the directory
Mar 24 04:36:27 <DocScrutinizer05> my systems also never heard of it
Mar 24 04:38:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<totalizator> well, what I should really do is to reflash my n900))
Mar 24 04:38:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Mar 24 04:38:13 <infobot> methinks lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Mar 24 04:38:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Mar 24 04:38:20 <infobot> methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Mar 24 04:39:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I still try to make sense from your different du values for /opt and /home/opt
Mar 24 04:39:28 <totalizator> nice, thank you
Mar 24 04:39:50 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# du -sh /opt
Mar 24 04:39:50 <totalizator> well, opt is part of home right?
Mar 24 04:39:51 <DocScrutinizer05> 736M    /opt
Mar 24 04:39:52 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# du -sh /home/opt
Mar 24 04:39:54 <DocScrutinizer05> 736M    /home/opt
Mar 24 04:40:02 <totalizator> hmm
Mar 24 04:40:17 <DocScrutinizer05> did you mean df?
Mar 24 04:41:04 <totalizator> when it comes to 1.8/2.0GB yes - df
Mar 24 04:41:34 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/64109776
Mar 24 04:44:09 <Maxdamantus> du traverses a tree of directories summing the sizes of things.
Mar 24 04:44:31 <Maxdamantus> df just asks the filesystem how much used/free space there is.
Mar 24 04:45:02 <DocScrutinizer05> however note df and du work different: http://paste.opensuse.org/41211497
Mar 24 04:46:28 <DocScrutinizer05> du sums up nominal file sizes, while du counts used blocks
Mar 24 04:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> du sums up nominal file sizes, while df counts used blocks
Mar 24 04:47:37 <totalizator> ncdu shows both values as total disk usage and apparent size
Mar 24 04:47:48 <DocScrutinizer05> so on statistical average, du will report #files * blocksize/2 less used space than df
Mar 24 04:48:39 <DocScrutinizer05> this average can be biased when you have mostly very small files
Mar 24 04:49:10 <DocScrutinizer05> also this rule doesn't apply to all filesystems
Mar 24 04:50:08 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc for example reiserfs used to store files on byte offsets, regardless of block sizes
Mar 24 04:50:48 <DocScrutinizer05> other fs do compression and a lot of other funny things: ubifs, like seen on N900 /
Mar 24 04:53:04 <totalizator> still I can't say I like the default N900 partitioning
Mar 24 04:53:18 <DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
Mar 24 04:53:23 <DocScrutinizer05> other than
Mar 24 04:53:27 <totalizator> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mar 24 04:53:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ~optification
Mar 24 04:53:32 <infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
Mar 24 04:53:43 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not all that bad
Mar 24 04:54:01 <DocScrutinizer05> see ~jrtools if you want larger /home
Mar 24 04:55:15 <totalizator> tempting
Mar 24 04:57:27 <totalizator> but after all these years? I hold strong 55.3M free in /home 32.6M free in rootfs \:D/
Mar 24 04:58:14 <DocScrutinizer05> 50MB in home sound scary low
Mar 24 04:58:24 <totalizator> dpkg -l | wc -l 2296
Mar 24 04:58:36 <DocScrutinizer05> well
Mar 24 04:58:50 <DocScrutinizer05> you want larger /home
Mar 24 04:59:31 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# dpkg -l | wc -l
Mar 24 04:59:33 <DocScrutinizer05> 2116
Mar 24 05:01:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I even see freaking skypeui installed on my system >.<
Mar 24 05:01:37 <Maxdamantus> rootfs                   27.4G     22.8G      3.2G  88% /
Mar 24 05:01:41 <totalizator> hah, yup, but when I'm looking at all these apps I can't recall why I have most of them installed 
Mar 24 05:02:12 <totalizator> Maxdamantus: you got me
Mar 24 05:02:27 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/23331432
Mar 24 05:03:25 <totalizator> seems legit
Mar 24 05:05:31 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr | wc -l
Mar 24 05:05:32 <DocScrutinizer05> 4566
Mar 24 05:05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> though that's bogus of course
Mar 24 05:06:26 <DocScrutinizer05> just for some sort of relation
Mar 24 05:08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> du -x /home|sort -n|less
Mar 24 05:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/69417514
Mar 24 05:32:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ((some sort of relation)) IOW most packages of dpkg -l are base system, you didn't install them
Mar 24 05:41:46 <totalizator> true
Mar 24 05:50:27 <KotCzarny> isnt 'du' - disk usage? not file usage?
Mar 24 05:50:39 <KotCzarny> afair it counts blocks used, not file sizes
Mar 24 05:52:49 <KotCzarny> it uses file size when ran with:
Mar 24 05:52:50 <KotCzarny>        -b, --bytes
Mar 24 05:52:50 <KotCzarny>               equivalent to '--apparent-size --block-size=1'
Mar 24 05:53:23 <KotCzarny> so you might run with and without -b and compare
Mar 24 08:57:33 <jonwil> hi
Mar 24 09:35:41 <Maxdamantus> ultimately, `du` also just listens to whatever the filesystem says.
Mar 24 09:37:30 <Maxdamantus> on btrfs it counts 0 for the size of a directory.
Mar 24 09:38:19 <Maxdamantus> $ mkdir -p a/b/c/d/e/f/g/h/i/j/k/l/m/n/o/p/q/r/s/t/u/v/w/x/y/z && du -s a
Mar 24 09:38:20 <Maxdamantus> 0       a
Mar 24 09:38:45 <KotCzarny> what if it really doesnt take additional space?
Mar 24 09:38:53 <KotCzarny> create 200k dirs and do a 'du'
Mar 24 09:39:08 <Maxdamantus> Then maybe we should all be encoding our file contents in btrfs filenames.
Mar 24 09:39:13 <Maxdamantus> Infinite space!
Mar 24 09:39:30 <KotCzarny> maxd, nah, i meant btrfs does some packaging tricks
Mar 24 09:39:48 <KotCzarny> creating plethora of dirs might be a different thing though
Mar 24 09:40:33 <Maxdamantus> It doesn't.
Mar 24 09:40:47 <KotCzarny> create 4k dirs and check?
Mar 24 09:40:50 <Maxdamantus> It just always says that a directory's size is 0 blocks.
Mar 24 09:40:53 <Maxdamantus> Okay, sec.
Mar 24 09:43:13 <KotCzarny> oh, fun, btrfs has it's own df: btrfs filesystem df /home
Mar 24 09:43:20 <KotCzarny> i wonder if it also has its own du
Mar 24 09:43:53 <Maxdamantus> $ (js -e 'for(var x = 0; x < 100000; x++) print(x.toString(2).split("").join("/"));' | xargs mkdir -p) && du -sh 1
Mar 24 09:43:56 <Maxdamantus> 0       1
Mar 24 09:44:14 <Maxdamantus> Its df has a special purpose.
Mar 24 09:44:44 <Maxdamantus> It tells you about allocation of different types of chunks or whatever they're called.
Mar 24 09:45:24 <Maxdamantus> Units that are usually 1 GiB and have a particular mode of storage (like raid1, raid0, single, dup, ..)
Mar 24 09:45:36 <Maxdamantus> Data: total=9.94TB, used=9.94TB
Mar 24 09:45:36 <Maxdamantus> System, RAID1: total=32.00MB, used=1.11MB
Mar 24 09:45:36 <Maxdamantus> Metadata, RAID1: total=33.89GB, used=31.88GB
Mar 24 09:46:25 <KotCzarny> anyway, btrfs is not playing fair then, hehe
Mar 24 09:46:37 <Maxdamantus> Well, neither is ext4.
Mar 24 09:46:45 <Maxdamantus> afaik, ext4 just says "1" instead of "0".
Mar 24 09:46:52 <KotCzarny> o.O
Mar 24 09:47:05 <Maxdamantus> Neither number reflects the disk usage of a directory.
Mar 24 09:47:14 <KotCzarny> # du
Mar 24 09:47:14 <KotCzarny> 4       ./123/123
Mar 24 09:47:14 <KotCzarny> 8       ./123
Mar 24 09:47:14 <KotCzarny> 12      .
Mar 24 09:47:25 <KotCzarny> for me it shows proper numbers
Mar 24 09:47:26 <Maxdamantus> KotCzarny: yes, you're taking the sum.
Mar 24 09:47:28 <KotCzarny> ie 4k per dir
Mar 24 09:47:43 <Maxdamantus> Right, so 123/123 is 4k, 123 is 4k, . is 4k
Mar 24 09:47:49 <Maxdamantus> 4k*3 = 12k
Mar 24 09:47:55 <Maxdamantus> There are 3 directories there.
Mar 24 09:48:06 <Maxdamantus> If you look at `stat` on each of them, they'll all just say blocks: 1
Mar 24 09:48:44 <KotCzarny> http://pastebin.com/raw/wb8ffchC
Mar 24 09:49:08 <Maxdamantus> Try `stat .`
Mar 24 09:49:16 <Maxdamantus> it'll say "Blocks: 1"
Mar 24 09:49:29 <Maxdamantus> The reason du tells you 20 is because it's counting the subdirectories too.
Mar 24 09:49:44 <Maxdamantus> in btrfs' case, the subdirectories are still all 0 bytes, so everything just sums to 0.
Mar 24 09:49:49 <KotCzarny> http://pastebin.com/raw/tfJ293tM
Mar 24 09:50:00 <KotCzarny> stat isnt recursive
Mar 24 09:50:18 <KotCzarny> it apparently only shows usage for current dir without contents
Mar 24 09:50:51 <Maxdamantus> Oh, it's size that's fixed, not blocks.
Mar 24 09:51:25 <Maxdamantus> Ah, blocks are 512 bytes, not 4096
Mar 24 09:51:42 <Maxdamantus> So it'll just say all directories are 8 blocks = 4096 bytes
Mar 24 09:52:22 <KotCzarny> yes, unless particular dir grows over 4k
Mar 24 09:52:45 <Maxdamantus> Ah yeah, that's true.
Mar 24 09:52:53 <Maxdamantus>   File: ‘/boot/’
Mar 24 09:52:54 <Maxdamantus>   Size: 8192            Blocks: 16         IO Block: 4096   directory
Mar 24 09:55:21 <KotCzarny> and that's because it doesnt treat dirs as metadata, just as a inode taking space
Mar 24 09:55:55 <Maxdamantus> Well, disk usage of individual files on btrfs can easily be quite meaningless.
Mar 24 09:55:56 <KotCzarny> and in the case of btrfs it probably allocates dirs in metadata area
Mar 24 09:56:32 <Maxdamantus> Since you can copy a multi-TiB file in btrfs without using any additional space.
Mar 24 09:56:55 <Maxdamantus> it can also do transparent compression.
Mar 24 09:56:56 <KotCzarny> similar to hardlinks in ext*
Mar 24 09:57:04 <Maxdamantus> No, different to hardlinks.
Mar 24 09:57:15 <KotCzarny> similar
Mar 24 09:57:15 <Maxdamantus> With hardlinks you still have the same file, just multiple names for it.
Mar 24 09:57:19 <Maxdamantus> No, very different.
Mar 24 09:57:26 <Maxdamantus> Hardlinking doesn't make new files
Mar 24 09:57:29 <Maxdamantus> Just new names.
Mar 24 09:57:35 <KotCzarny> with a write on the file what would happen on btrfs?
Mar 24 09:57:42 <KotCzarny> cow?
Mar 24 09:57:46 <Maxdamantus> btrfs has hardlinks too, because it's a POSIX-compatible filesystem.
Mar 24 09:57:52 <luke-jr> btrfs is insane slow
Mar 24 09:58:04 <Maxdamantus> Yes, any write no a file on btrfs is CoW.
Mar 24 09:58:04 <luke-jr> I regret using it for my home
Mar 24 09:58:26 <KotCzarny> then before there is a write, it behaves as hardlink
Mar 24 09:58:28 <Maxdamantus> I don't feel like it's any slower than when I used ext4.
Mar 24 09:58:41 <Maxdamantus> ext4 for me ended up feeling really slow after using it for years.
Mar 24 09:58:42 <luke-jr> Maxdamantus: give it time, it seems to get worse with age
Mar 24 09:58:43 <KotCzarny> which is why i've said 'similar'
Mar 24 09:59:15 <Maxdamantus> I've been using btrfs now as my primary filesystem over 3 or 4 harddisks for .. hmm
Mar 24 09:59:25 <Maxdamantus> Since the middle of 2013.
Mar 24 09:59:45 <Maxdamantus> So around 4 years. How much longer do I need to wait?
Mar 24 09:59:57 <KotCzarny> and cow on a multi TB file might be crazily fragmenting
Mar 24 10:00:18 <Maxdamantus> KotCzarny: every write is CoW, it doesn't matter that there's a copy of it.
Mar 24 10:00:46 <Maxdamantus> and yes, it's fragmenting, which is why people usually use the "autodefrag" option on harddisks.
Mar 24 10:02:10 <Maxdamantus> I don't think I really use much that involves a lot of random writes into large files anyway.
Mar 24 10:02:43 <Maxdamantus> I just have my browser's cache directory on tmpfs.
Mar 24 12:29:19 <Zungo> hello?
Mar 24 12:51:16 <enyc> Zungo: peaesp do come and go here =)
Mar 24 12:51:24 <enyc> Zungo: try soying something clear anhd substantial about what you are talking about !
Mar 24 12:51:44 <Zungo> i said something like that earlier...
Mar 24 12:51:48 <Zungo> an apology
Mar 24 12:52:21 <Zungo> i feel like im new again
Mar 24 12:52:44 <enyc> Zungo: because?  new to maemo again ???
Mar 24 12:53:03 <Zungo> you clearly dont seem to remember me....
Mar 24 12:53:23 <Zungo> earlier i said it's juesto
Mar 24 12:54:28 <Zungo> enyc ^
Mar 24 13:03:23 <enyc> Zungo: not sure i'v e kept track ogp eople here at all tbh
Mar 24 13:03:32 <Zungo> okay nvm
Mar 24 13:03:47 <Zungo> have a nice day
Mar 24 14:23:11 <NeKit> I‘m surprised that some LXDE applications actually look fitting with gtk2-engines-sapwood
Mar 24 16:05:52 <L29Ah> sometimes i fell like ρcam lacks the button debouncing
Mar 24 17:58:26 <NeKit> suddenly found https://gitorious.org/qemu-maemo/gles-libs?p=qemu-maemo:gles-libs.git
Mar 24 18:01:10 <NeKit> fgles2 has X11 integration code based on XShmImage, some implementation details could be reused on top of libhybris
Mar 24 20:54:46 <jonwil> hi
Mar 24 20:55:29 <KotCzarny> software efficiency at its best: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/23/cursor_devours_cpu_cycles_ms_code_editor/
Mar 24 21:11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hi
Mar 24 21:11:58 <DocScrutinizer05> Trump for president!!! \o/ oh wait, he already is ;-P
Mar 24 21:13:55 * DocScrutinizer05 is quite happy Trump didn't start with modernizing the nuclear defense processes, but something of minor global impact like abolishing Obamacare
Mar 24 21:16:50 <DocScrutinizer05> It should be outlawed to have a president with ZILCH experience in politics and government whose pnly 'qualification' for the job is that he managed to make billions with suspicious construction projects and did run a cheesy TV show
Mar 24 21:19:06 <L29Ah> trump decided he won't abolish obamacare
Mar 24 21:19:21 <L29Ah> he's an usual lier
Mar 24 21:19:50 <L29Ah> it should not
Mar 24 21:20:17 <L29Ah> politician == parasite
Mar 24 21:20:31 <L29Ah> i doubt someone who spent 30 years of his life on parasitism is a worthy president
Mar 24 21:25:55 <DocScrutinizer05> to give homour to truth, it's not him who decided to not abolish obamacare, it's been 'his' Republican party representatives who simply didn't obey even when extorted, so the whole obamacare abolishing got postponed and Trump said he won't touch it anytime soon again
Mar 24 21:27:13 <DocScrutinizer05> the emperor's new clothes - latest revelation: he's naked
Mar 24 21:29:48 <DocScrutinizer05> "all dentists are parasites" (which is not my true belief even while they charge doublepluspremium for everything) - nevertheless I won't decide to have my teeth taken care of by a plumber from now on
Mar 24 21:31:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and particularly not by SuperMario ;-P
Mar 24 21:33:16 <Zungo> heyo
Mar 24 21:45:53 * L29Ah moves to another country just to make the dentist problems cheaper
Mar 24 21:45:56 <L29Ah> s/moves/goes/
Mar 24 21:46:41 <L29Ah> i have a dremel and would offer some simple dentist stuff but noone would let me to i guess :]
Mar 24 21:47:33 <L29Ah> big government says this is some totally serious shit worth spending lots of labour on education and certification
Mar 24 21:49:18 <L29Ah> DocScrutinizer05: the problem is that politicians lack the usual social feedback you have in any other scope
Mar 24 21:49:35 <L29Ah> if you don't like that dentist, you won't give one your monies
Mar 24 21:50:07 <L29Ah> meanwhile politicians don't need to compete for your everyday decisions
Mar 24 21:58:32 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's a systematical problem of representative democracies (in other government schemes it's not perceived as a problem)
Mar 24 22:09:35 <DocScrutinizer05> to avoid incompetent decisions on clomplex topics and to warrant protection of minorities, politics are not made by polls on every single issue that needs a decision, rather representative democracies have politicians for that. The problem is now that those politicians still are elected by incompetent masses so not the smartest most competent with most integrity but the one with best PR gets elected. And then that dude does whatever he 
Mar 24 22:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> likes, for a long period of time
Mar 24 22:21:55 <DocScrutinizer05> s/incompetent decisions/not wise decisions/
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 25 03:00:02 2017