**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 01 03:00:03 2017 Apr 01 09:01:04 Hello. I am trying to install packages from repository.maemo.org/extras/, via command line. If I browse there, the page is responding and I can download packages, but if I use apt-get it stops at connecting to the website. On the application manager the repository seems to be configured correctly. Apr 01 09:01:39 use apt-cache policy yourpkg Apr 01 09:02:06 What's that? Apr 01 09:02:13 will give you info about pkg Apr 01 09:02:18 Ok. Apr 01 09:03:36 Ok, I got the info. It is available, and in fact I have been able to download it on my computer. I could install it manually. But why it is not possible via apt-get? Apr 01 09:04:56 Ah, well, maybe I understand. Let me try. Apr 01 09:05:39 No, I didn't get it. I am trying to install rsync. It should be apt-get install rsync, right? Apr 01 09:05:57 yes, assuming its in repos and dependencies are available Apr 01 09:06:47 From the web it seems it is there, in fact I downloaded it on my computer. I'll try installing the dependencies separately. Apr 01 09:07:13 no, pastebin the error if you want some answer Apr 01 09:07:28 and result of that policy command Apr 01 09:08:09 Ok. But no true error - just sticking there. Apr 01 09:17:34 https://pastebin.com/X0YHQ61A Apr 01 09:19:05 do you have anything weird in /etc/apt/conf.d ? Apr 01 09:19:25 what happens if you just wait? Apr 01 09:20:01 Ok, meanwhile I got the error: https://pastebin.com/MKY6yd82 Apr 01 09:25:01 There is no /etc/apt/conf.d. There is a /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. Inside, three files: 00maemo, 01autoremove, 99-docpurge. Apr 01 09:25:36 maybe your connection went down Apr 01 09:25:45 is it wifi or gsm? Apr 01 09:25:52 Wifi. Apr 01 09:54:36 Ok, I solved the thing by a workaround. But I don't understand what happens. Let me explain. Apr 01 09:55:41 If I try to apt-get from the terminal, by typing on the N900 keyboard, I am not able to tell apt-get to go on. When it asks if I want to continue, I have the Y option, but after entering an Y it aborts. Don't understand. Apr 01 09:56:38 I tried to ssh via usb. This works, but kills the access to the Internet (the wifi is still working, it seems: my router still sees the device via wifi). Also the browser is not working. Maybe a conflict, but I don't understand. Apr 01 09:56:58 I had to ssh through the wifi. This way I have been able to install rsync. Apr 01 09:57:22 Anybody with an explanation? Apr 01 09:57:31 you didnt say you were using usb for connecting Apr 01 09:57:51 Yes, that's true. Sorry. I didn't expect that to be a problem. Apr 01 09:58:51 if you have conflicting network setting it usually fails. anyway, connect through wifi and ignore usb (use it for emergency and dont worry) Apr 01 09:59:18 this will keep things simple Apr 01 09:59:41 Ok, I was using usb to transfer files from the computer. Apr 01 10:00:07 And why the N900 keyboard didn't work? Why it doesn't accept the Y? Apr 01 10:00:57 where is your Y ? Apr 01 10:01:09 what shows on terminal when you enter it? Apr 01 10:01:22 It shows correctly an Y. Apr 01 10:01:44 lowercase vs uppercase maybe then? Apr 01 10:01:58 I tried both lowercase and uppercase. Apr 01 10:12:48 i genuinely doubt the problem is being explained to us correctly ... does the Y/y type correctly in other applications? Apr 01 10:13:44 and you are using apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal? Apr 01 10:16:47 popup notifier? Apr 01 10:18:00 i've not looked at the pastebins .. pastebin.com brought my Core2Duo pc to a grinding halt earlier this week .. won't try it on N900 :p Apr 01 10:18:04 seen this so many times :-P "why the damn thing stalls on apt-get install??... OH DAMN! It was showing a requester on device display! and I connected via ssh from my PC" Apr 01 10:18:33 pastebin.com is rogue Apr 01 10:20:06 well >>Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/a/attr/libattr1_2.4.43-1_armel.deb Could not connect to repository.maemo.org:80 (213.128.137.22), connection timed out<< Apr 01 10:21:02 first generic advice: try again later Apr 01 10:21:56 Sicelo Yes I tried with apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal. Apr 01 10:22:07 Got the problem in telling it the Y. Apr 01 10:22:21 I tried via ssh on wifi and it worked. Apr 01 10:22:50 http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?c=maemo&h=blade-a&m=load_one&r=2hr&s=by%20name&hc=4&mc=2 Apr 01 10:23:26 If I ssh via usb, after that I am unable to connect to the Internet. I solved by rebooting the N900. Apr 01 10:23:47 sicelo: try adding /raw/ after the domain, makes it lighter Apr 01 10:24:00 (for pastebin.com) Apr 01 10:25:29 Enrico_Menotti: well, ssh via USB might mean you manually forced a quite 'unusual' network config Apr 01 10:25:59 also, if you use firefox, install noscript extension, much recommended, also from security point of view Apr 01 10:27:56 Enrico_Menotti: generally when plugging in USB you should be careful about state of device not 'normal' (unless it's a USB charger, not PC) Apr 01 10:30:01 e.g. USB mASS stoRAGE mode umounts your MyDocs to export it to USB, so any apps that might use MyDocs (see ~optification) may stop to work, and trying to *install* such apps will cause massive havoc Apr 01 10:31:13 not quite sure, but even HAM might use a temporary dir on MyDoc, so running HAM while mass storage mode would also be a pretty bad idea then Apr 01 10:32:56 Enrico_Menotti: as a general advice, when you have a WLAN access point, never use USB for anything other than charging and maybe an occasional access to mass storage for copying media files etc, during which you don't use the device for any activities Apr 01 10:36:24 Enrico_Menotti: I almost never connect IroN900 to my PC via USB, yet I'm logged in to the device via ssh and WLAN almiost 50% of the time, which is so much more convenient than typing on maemo xterm. And every night a backup cronjob rsyncs stuff to my PC automatically Apr 01 10:38:09 IroN900 connects to WLAN as soon as I come home and I don't need to worry a single second about it. Often even the ssh session stays established when I wasn't out too long :-) Apr 01 10:39:39 IroN900:~# uptime Apr 01 10:39:40 12:39 52 Tage 13:45 an, 0 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0,00, 0,00, 0,00 Apr 01 10:44:12 DocScrutinizer05: if there are files opened in MyDocs, it is not exported via mass storage Apr 01 10:44:27 yep Apr 01 10:45:05 "device storage in use" or somesuch Apr 01 10:45:14 BUT, if there are none opened, then when it gets exported then stupid apps my create and open files in the mountpoint dir X-P Apr 01 10:45:20 sure Apr 01 10:45:33 camera-ui2 does it :D Apr 01 10:45:53 DocScrutinizer05 I just issued ifup usb0 on the N900 (XTerminal), in PC suite mode. On the PC, set the host side of the connection to be 192.168.2.14. Then ssh 192.168.2.15. Apr 01 10:45:55 the old linux pun, use up all disk space in a file hidden under a mountpoint ;-P Apr 01 10:46:07 After this, the N900 does not connect to the Internet anymore. Apr 01 10:46:16 Even if unplugged. I had to reboot it. Apr 01 10:46:16 Enrico_Menotti: and what is your GW/DNS? Apr 01 10:47:05 freemangordon: irrelevant, for sure not 192.168.2.14. Apr 01 10:47:18 you can;t access internet if you don;t have gateway setup, and your device cannot resolve names without DNS Apr 01 10:47:46 Enrico_Menotti: you established a local network with just 2 participants and no way out of it into the internet Apr 01 10:48:08 but he said he also had wifi running Apr 01 10:48:17 ~usbnetworking Apr 01 10:48:17 extra, extra, read all about it, usbnetworking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Apr 01 10:48:43 unless it was before/after, not during Apr 01 10:48:49 Enrico_Menotti: and unplugging doesn't revert an ifup Apr 01 10:48:53 DocScrutinizer05: it is relevant, because if 192.168.2.14 is set up as a GW, but PC is not set up to transfer packets between interfaces and to do NAT, no internet will be availabe on device Apr 01 10:49:10 KotCzarny: doesn't matter wifi Apr 01 10:49:24 fmg, usb networking mangles default gw? Apr 01 10:49:37 depends on what he did Apr 01 10:49:38 i mean default route Apr 01 10:49:42 ^^^ Apr 01 10:49:56 freemangordon: with ifup usb no internet will be available unless further 'tricks' with routing and dnsmasq are done, I guess Apr 01 10:50:08 see ^^^ ~usbnetworking Apr 01 10:50:21 Enrico_Menotti: may we have the output of "route -n" after you have usb interface up? Apr 01 10:50:52 freemangordon Ok, a minute. Apr 01 10:51:03 freemangordon: please don't make Enrico_Menotti do ifup usb again ;-) Apr 01 10:51:41 oh well, I guess he already did, so he's up for yet another reboot Apr 01 10:51:47 comeon Apr 01 10:51:50 DocScrutinizer05 I already did it. I had to transfer files from the computer to the N900. I think it finished now, so I can get the routes. Apr 01 10:51:56 aaah Apr 01 10:52:04 yep Apr 01 10:52:12 DocScrutinizer05 What's the problem with the reboot? Apr 01 10:52:14 last time I checked it was easy to delete a route in linux Apr 01 10:52:22 Enrico_Menotti: it sucks? :-D Apr 01 10:52:29 it's a not wise thing in linux world Apr 01 10:52:36 see my uptime above ;-) Apr 01 10:52:40 you fix things so reboot is not required Apr 01 10:52:47 well, it is not politically correct :p Apr 01 10:52:58 also sucks a lot of battery Apr 01 10:53:05 about 1.5% Apr 01 10:53:06 and time Apr 01 10:53:22 Ah ok. Yes, I would fix things, I also have that idea. But I need to understand how! :) Apr 01 10:53:34 anyway Apr 01 10:53:39 ~usbnetworking Apr 01 10:53:40 [usbnetworking] http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Apr 01 10:53:48 *strongly* recommended read Apr 01 10:53:49 first: do you lose wifi when you connect via usb? Apr 01 10:54:24 guys, lets wait for the route table, everything will become clear Apr 01 10:54:25 and generally, try to steer clear of usb networking, use WLAN instead whenever possible Apr 01 10:55:15 Enrico_Menotti: for a start, did you try ifdown usb ? Apr 01 10:55:25 btw. if you only move relatively small files (<1gigabite), just install tinysmb, and copy via wifi Apr 01 10:57:22 KotCzarny: is that GB or Gb? Apr 01 10:57:53 fmg: that's up for the reader and his patience with wifi speeds Apr 01 10:58:02 :) Apr 01 10:58:28 i've used USB networking with no ill effect lots of imes :-) Apr 01 10:58:32 I use USB for data access rarely (I use my sftp://root@iron900/root bookmark instead http://susepaste.org/28993785) and I never ever do USBnetworking Apr 01 10:58:49 Sicelo: :nod: Apr 01 10:59:13 i've found tinysmb to perfectly suit me, so i won't have to find cable, abuse usb port etc Apr 01 10:59:21 https://pastebin.com/xbC2wZKL Apr 01 10:59:32 This is the rounting table right now. Apr 01 10:59:36 just click on the desktop icon, enable smb, and be done Apr 01 10:59:51 now, there's your problem Apr 01 10:59:59 see Apr 01 11:00:00 192.168.2.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0 Apr 01 11:00:15 your computer advertisestises usb route, and not forwarding packets Apr 01 11:00:23 oops Apr 01 11:00:30 it should just work after you do ifconfig usb0 down Apr 01 11:00:31 that one 0.0.0.0 192.168.2.14 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 Apr 01 11:00:35 to restore connectivity Apr 01 11:00:48 no, he can just delete usb0 default GW Apr 01 11:00:53 or: route del -net default dev usb0 Apr 01 11:00:58 yup Apr 01 11:01:02 slow typing here :P Apr 01 11:01:09 both ways, no need for a reboot Apr 01 11:01:13 :nod: Apr 01 11:01:17 BUT! Apr 01 11:01:18 ifdown Apr 01 11:01:28 the question is who sets USB0 ad default GW Apr 01 11:01:33 *as Apr 01 11:01:39 maybe it gets from windoze? Apr 01 11:01:43 no way Apr 01 11:01:51 this is local setting Apr 01 11:02:06 let's wait for enrico Apr 01 11:02:37 how exactly do you connect/enable usb network? Apr 01 11:02:38 Enrico_Menotti: what is the content of /etc/network/interfaces? Apr 01 11:02:49 http://paste.opensuse.org/32586921 Apr 01 11:03:00 I suspect: Apr 01 11:03:02 iface usb0 inet static Apr 01 11:03:09 gateway 192.168.2.14 Apr 01 11:03:15 because this is what I have here Apr 01 11:03:23 but who would do such dastardly thing?! Apr 01 11:03:30 Nokia Apr 01 11:03:32 good luck with setting up network sharing on your PC Apr 01 11:03:53 THIS **SUCKS** big time Apr 01 11:03:55 network sharing on linux is 2-3 lines max Apr 01 11:04:21 KotCzarny: this is the default setting for QtCreator/scratchbox devel connection Apr 01 11:04:26 since your network manager will interfere anything you try Apr 01 11:04:45 KotCzarny: on ubuntu it is 2 clicks away :) Apr 01 11:04:50 network manager is evil abomination of systemd devels Apr 01 11:04:52 on windows it might be actually simpler Apr 01 11:05:04 DocScrutinizer05: actually it is very complicated Apr 01 11:05:11 you need to play with netsh Apr 01 11:05:20 Ok. Thank you for all the feedback. But please let me understand. Apr 01 11:05:35 So first, I have a Debian distro running on the PC. Apr 01 11:05:44 I connect the N900 via USB. Apr 01 11:05:45 GOOD! Apr 01 11:05:50 great Apr 01 11:06:11 first: do you require internet working via usb? Apr 01 11:06:16 or just files? Apr 01 11:06:19 ^^^ that one Apr 01 11:06:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking#Linux Apr 01 11:07:21 DocScrutinizer05 Thanks for the links. I will read them. Apr 01 11:07:36 For now, let me just explain what I did. Apr 01 11:07:56 if you prefer internet via vifi to stay alive, just comment out gateway line in /etc/network/interfaces (the one in usb0 contect) Apr 01 11:08:00 *context Apr 01 11:08:18 not needed. Apr 01 11:08:32 usb networking not needed ;-) Apr 01 11:08:50 as long as you own a WLAN access point Apr 01 11:09:09 i meant .. no need to comment out anything. Apr 01 11:09:10 it's really a PITA Apr 01 11:09:30 Sicelo: err, sorry, I missed some context Apr 01 11:09:43 usb networking does not interfere with wifi at all. if it seems to, that's user error, not N900 issue Apr 01 11:09:44 Sicelo: sure, but he will have to delete usb0 route every time he brings usb0 up Apr 01 11:10:27 in order not to have default GW setup through usb0, he has to comment the "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces Apr 01 11:10:39 as KotCzarny said Apr 01 11:10:54 ah yes .. guess i'm also getting confused here lol Apr 01 11:10:57 usb networking ois really deprecated Apr 01 11:11:24 it's a PITA and so much more intricate than WiFi Apr 01 11:11:27 DocScrutinizer05: it is absolutely ok, and the rules are exactly the same as for the other network interfaces Apr 01 11:11:38 +1 Apr 01 11:11:41 it is not some kind of a special net device Apr 01 11:11:46 you forget to count in the mess on PC Apr 01 11:11:57 there is no mess, esp on linux Apr 01 11:12:10 actually the same thing happens when you want to use wifi & gprs simultaneously (yes some of us need that sometimes) Apr 01 11:12:11 on windows it is tricky, but not THAT hard Apr 01 11:12:24 well, when you're happy with turning your PC fronm a client into a router, then yes Apr 01 11:12:46 Ok, guys, sorry, please wait a minute... I will try to explain what I did... I'd like to understand... Apr 01 11:12:58 there is no ohter way, if we assume "router" is a device transferring packets from one interface to another Apr 01 11:13:07 Enrico_Menotti: ok Apr 01 11:13:18 I'm out, I for sure don't want to deal with USB in any way, unless I have to Apr 01 11:13:44 I issued, on the PC, ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14. This seems necessary in order to establish ssh. I admit I don't understand why the host side of the usb connection has to be that particular address. Maybe it's due to /etc/network/interfaces. Apr 01 11:14:00 Then I issued, on the N900, ifup usb0. Apr 01 11:14:22 At this point I'm able to ssh from the computer to the N900 by ssh 192.168.2.15. Apr 01 11:14:35 Also here, I don't understand why that particular address. Apr 01 11:14:51 Enrico_Menotti: there is no need for there address to be 192.168.2.14 Apr 01 11:14:59 at that point you established a LAN cosisting of two nodes: 192.168.2.15 and 192.168.2.14 Apr 01 11:15:11 DocScrutinizer05 Yes, ok, I understand this. Apr 01 11:15:18 with no links of any kind to any other network Apr 01 11:15:32 it will work with any address on 192.168.2.0 network, besides 192.168.2.15, because it is the address of the device Apr 01 11:16:04 Enrico_Menotti: where did you get 192.168.2.14 address from? Apr 01 11:16:08 freemangordon: seems 192.168.2.15 is hardcoded Apr 01 11:16:13 not, it is not Apr 01 11:16:21 int is in /etc/network/interfaces Apr 01 11:16:25 *it is Apr 01 11:16:32 that's what I'm talking about :-P Apr 01 11:16:39 this is not hardcoded Apr 01 11:16:39 freemangordon Don't remember any more, sorry, it was a few weeks ago, it's one of the first thing I did with the N900. Apr 01 11:17:02 Enrico_Menotti: so, in short - you may assign whatever address you want to both the device and the PC Apr 01 11:17:24 then softcoded X-P Apr 01 11:17:39 they MUST be in one and the same network, otherwise they won;t "see" each other Apr 01 11:17:44 anyway if you want to change those addresses, you need to edit stuff Apr 01 11:18:20 Enrico_Menotti: TCP addresses starting with 192.168.x.x are in the so-called "C" class networks (just a detail) :) Apr 01 11:18:37 and get a 100g Vodka if your PC LAN is 192.168.2.0/24 Apr 01 11:19:01 routers ususlly use 192.168.1.x Apr 01 11:19:06 or 192.168.0.x Apr 01 11:19:11 Right, it's subnet mask 255.255.255.0, right? Apr 01 11:19:15 yes Apr 01 11:19:18 HAHA do you think anything in my network is _usual_ Apr 01 11:19:49 DocScrutinizer05: please, let me explain to Enrico_Menotti what is going on :) Apr 01 11:20:12 freemangordon Please. I'm listening. Apr 01 11:20:36 Enrico_Menotti: so, by setting both interfaces in one and the same network, you will have network connectivity, BUT only for addresses on that network Apr 01 11:20:53 look route -n output you apstebin ^^^ Apr 01 11:21:08 192.168.2.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0 Apr 01 11:21:39 ^^^ means that for addresses starting with 192.168.2.X, the packets will be send through usb0 interface Apr 01 11:21:45 http://paste.opensuse.org/7622474 Apr 01 11:21:54 Enrico_Menotti: anything unclear so far? Apr 01 11:22:11 All clear, ok. Apr 01 11:22:15 ok... Apr 01 11:22:28 now, what is "default gateway"... Apr 01 11:23:14 Sorry? Apr 01 11:23:39 "default gateway" is a network interface the packets are send to, when there is no match with the adresses of the interfaces Apr 01 11:23:52 Enrico_Menotti: I am continuing with the explanantion :) Apr 01 11:23:59 *explanation Apr 01 11:24:02 Sorry! :) Apr 01 11:24:11 lesson Apr 01 11:24:19 in your case you have 2 of them: Apr 01 11:24:34 0.0.0.0 192.168.2.14 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 Apr 01 11:24:44 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 wlan0 Apr 01 11:24:55 UGH Apr 01 11:26:01 Kernel IP routing table Apr 01 11:26:02 Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface Apr 01 11:26:02 those four zeroes (0.0.0.0) along with netmask of 0.0.0.0, mean that ANY address you try to connect (or rather send packet to) not belonging to networks 192.168.2.x or 192.168.0.x will be send through usb0 Apr 01 11:26:04 192.168.4.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 wlan0 Apr 01 11:26:05 default 192.168.4.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 wlan0 Apr 01 11:26:17 DocScrutinizer05: please, hold on a secod Apr 01 11:26:21 *second Apr 01 11:26:56 Enrico_Menotti: usb0 is chosen because it comes in the list BEFORE wlan0 Apr 01 11:27:18 thus, all the packets (connections) you try to do are send via usb0. Apr 01 11:27:29 'sent' Apr 01 11:27:34 right Apr 01 11:27:54 BUT your PC is not setup to act as a router, so they are effectively dropped Apr 01 11:28:15 long story short, self inflicted network breakage on enrico's part Apr 01 11:28:22 Enrico_Menotti: is it getting clearer now? Apr 01 11:28:24 fixable by removing gateway from usb Apr 01 11:28:29 mhm Apr 01 11:28:35 freemangordon Yes, it is indeed. Apr 01 11:28:36 or configuring pc to act as a router Apr 01 11:28:54 Enrico_Menotti: ok then, explain what you're trying to achieve Apr 01 11:29:21 Well, first of all understanding. :) Apr 01 11:29:33 that's always a noble goal Apr 01 11:29:36 you want to understand what? Apr 01 11:29:42 ask your question Apr 01 11:30:03 Ok, ok, you already explained lots of things I did not understand by myself. Apr 01 11:30:05 buying linux for the beginners is recommended Apr 01 11:30:21 KotCzarny: this is not linux, this is networking :) Apr 01 11:30:25 when trying to run Maemo UI on HiDPI screen like 1920x1080, would the best way would be to set lower resolution in X server and upscale it? Apr 01 11:30:39 fmg, essential part of linux is networking ;) Apr 01 11:30:51 NotKit: why not native? performance? Apr 01 11:31:14 freemangordon I'd like to ask a couple of things. Apr 01 11:31:19 go ahead Apr 01 11:31:27 don;t ask to ask :) Apr 01 11:31:28 interface don't seem to be adapted for this Apr 01 11:31:35 ah, I see Apr 01 11:31:59 NotKit: hmm, wait, it should be (tm) Apr 01 11:32:14 iirc the code calculates lots of thing based on the resolution Apr 01 11:32:28 First, in the first two lines of the routing table, the gateway for the two local networks (wlan and usb) is set as 0.0.0.0. What is this? Apr 01 11:32:30 it should try to calculate in millimeters Apr 01 11:32:34 maybe only the icon sizes could be problematic Apr 01 11:32:47 it's essentially what human would want Apr 01 11:32:58 http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/route.html Apr 01 11:33:00 ie. relative to his finger size Apr 01 11:33:32 ~ask Apr 01 11:33:33 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Apr 01 11:33:50 0.0.0.0 is ana alias for 'default network, catch all' Apr 01 11:33:59 *an Apr 01 11:34:29 because there are specific routes ie. 192.168.2.0/24 will be designation of your usb setup Apr 01 11:34:39 Enrico_Menotti: 0.0.0.0 is wildcard Apr 01 11:35:02 KotCzarny: I am not sure those 0.0.0.0 for GW on an interface actually means anything Apr 01 11:35:07 and when particular packet dont get routed by any specific rule, 0.0.0.0 is used Apr 01 11:35:30 KotCzarny: see what he asked ^^^ Apr 01 11:35:36 KotCzarny This is for the third and fourth line, right? Apr 01 11:35:45 0.0.0.0 on the first and the second line Apr 01 11:35:45 I'm concerned with the gateway in the first two. Apr 01 11:35:46 fmg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_route Apr 01 11:36:05 KotCzarny: this is NOT default route Apr 01 11:36:20 default route has address 0.0.0.0, not gateway 0.0.0.0 Apr 01 11:36:26 freemangordon Right, I think so. Apr 01 11:36:29 btb (house call) Apr 01 11:36:57 see my spam post above Apr 01 11:37:13 DocScrutinizer05 The wildcard? Apr 01 11:37:19 http://paste.opensuse.org/6131360 Apr 01 11:37:50 DocScrutinizer05: you mean '*' for interface GW? Apr 01 11:38:14 yes Apr 01 11:38:30 and "default" for destination Apr 01 11:38:39 route is more human readable in that Apr 01 11:38:48 I don;t think that * means anything Apr 01 11:39:04 it means "applies to all gateways" no? Apr 01 11:39:12 Ok, I understand the "default" in the destination, but not the "*" in the gateway. Apr 01 11:39:23 Enrico_Menotti: just ignore it for now :) Apr 01 11:39:37 you could have multiple gateways with differnet metrics afaik Apr 01 11:39:50 "The gateway address or '*' if none set." Apr 01 11:40:01 DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ this is from man route Apr 01 11:40:21 yes, sure Apr 01 11:40:35 "none set" == 0.0.0.0 Apr 01 11:40:37 Enrico_Menotti: so, this means "no gateway set" Apr 01 11:40:49 aka 'wildcard' Apr 01 11:41:20 or colloquial "never mind, it's an advanced feature" Apr 01 11:41:25 mhm Apr 01 11:43:07 I am not even sure it is possible to setup anything there Apr 01 11:43:19 Ah ok. So the 0.0.0.0 means that packets to those first two IP's go directly there, without a gateway, through the specified interface, or that they pass through whatever gateway is available (but there are no other gateways here at play, right?). Apr 01 11:43:35 ? Apr 01 11:44:15 (Sorry it was a question. Not dot, question mark.) Apr 01 11:45:04 http://paste.opensuse.org/6131360 the lyrical way: there's a network 192.168.4.x (all adresses 192.168.4.0 to 192.168.4.255 are available on this) and your interface is one of them. (end of line one) All destinations ('default') that are NOT on 192.168.4.x are available via router 192.168.4.1 (end of line 2) Apr 01 11:46:36 Enrico_Menotti: what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column Apr 01 11:47:01 the first line that matches is the chosen interface Apr 01 11:47:47 freemangordon Ok, I understand, but if the chosen interface is in the first two lines, since the gw is set as 0.0.0.0, does the packet go directly to its destination, or through a gw? Apr 01 11:48:38 see my lyric explanation above Apr 01 11:49:14 any address directly available on a defined network does _not_ get redirected to a gateway Apr 01 11:49:55 sorry, had a phone call Apr 01 11:50:13 Enrico_Menotti: directly Apr 01 11:50:22 use route without ".n", it's waaay more human readable Apr 01 11:50:36 -n, even Apr 01 11:51:01 DocScrutinizer05 Ah ok this is clearer. So the gw is not set, but also not needed for my purposes, right? Apr 01 11:51:09 I dislike it, as it tries to do reverse dns resolution Apr 01 11:51:13 right Apr 01 11:53:35 Enrico_Menotti: now, do you understand why you don't have internet when usb0 is up? Apr 01 11:53:40 the 'trick' is your network stack _knows_ about all the addresses directly available in that netwrork, from own address and netmask, both in ifconfig Apr 01 11:53:59 gateway set to 0.0.0.0 for particular interface means to use default route Apr 01 11:54:15 hmm, right Apr 01 11:54:37 or rather "to not use gateway" :) Apr 01 11:54:51 or 'see default gw' ;) Apr 01 11:54:54 but send directly through that interface Apr 01 11:55:08 KotCzarny: I tend to disagree Apr 01 11:55:24 if you have address match, no gateway lookup is performed afaik Apr 01 11:55:27 for the curious geeks: I guess you could have two NIC with addr on same network. In this case gateway for LAN ("U") makes sense Apr 01 11:56:30 anyway, this is very advanced routing, not usually found in home PCs Apr 01 11:56:35 hmm, nope, that would be 'iface' then Apr 01 11:56:39 mhm Apr 01 11:57:01 nfc what for you need "gateway" in U Apr 01 11:57:30 "no meaning" in U, needs a value nevertheless for filling the column in table ;-P Apr 01 11:57:48 Enrico_Menotti: BTW, do you know what 192.168.0/24 is supposed to mean? Apr 01 11:57:49 yes, there are more rules than just ip Apr 01 11:58:03 it means match any address from 192.168.1.X range Apr 01 11:58:24 192.168.1.0/16 would mean: match any ip from 192.168.Y.X Apr 01 11:58:56 freemangordon: why do you ask this? Apr 01 11:59:28 KotCzarny: I would read it as addr 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0, the point is that the number after / means how many consecutive nonzero bit we have in the 32 bit netmask, counting from right to left :) Apr 01 11:59:47 yes, now you would need to explain what netmask is ;) Apr 01 11:59:51 freemangordon: why not ask "are you aware what netmask (255.255.255.0 aka /24) means?" Apr 01 12:00:08 DocScrutinizer05: because we have types in linux Apr 01 12:00:16 and it is one and the same thing Apr 01 12:00:26 all in all, thanks to n900 he gets linux/networking crash course Apr 01 12:00:26 KotCzarny: I already explained ^^^ Apr 01 12:00:36 you lost me Apr 01 12:00:39 fmg: yeah, i'm sick and slow wyping/reading Apr 01 12:00:51 so bear with my mental lags ;) Apr 01 12:00:59 *typing Apr 01 12:01:25 Ok, right, one of the few things I still remember from my network courses at the University is that IP addresses are composed by two parts, right? Apr 01 12:01:27 "what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column" Apr 01 12:02:02 The network address, and the host address inside the (sub) network. If I remember right. Apr 01 12:02:07 Enrico_Menotti: I guess it could be said like that - "network" and "host", so yeah Apr 01 12:02:08 Enrico_Menotti: simply means: only look at the leftmost /N bits of addr Apr 01 12:02:12 btw. did you guys heard that powervr sgx5XX source was dumped on the internet? Apr 01 12:02:25 KotCzarny: yeah, some 3 years ago iirc Apr 01 12:02:27 :) Apr 01 12:02:30 Enrico_Menotti: or "only look at the bits where netmask bit is 1" Apr 01 12:02:37 Enrico_Menotti: nope, that's connection Apr 01 12:02:46 tcp address is just ip Apr 01 12:03:04 hah Apr 01 12:03:10 KotCzarny ? Apr 01 12:03:11 KotCzarny: lets not merge tcp and ip, ok? :) Apr 01 12:03:12 my aprils fools joke failed Apr 01 12:03:13 Enrico_Menotti: so yes, you got an IP addr and a netmask that says which parts of the IP are relevant Apr 01 12:03:38 hmm, lets make it clear: Apr 01 12:03:45