**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 12 03:00:02 2017
Apr 12 08:57:50 <KotCzarny> https://mm.gravedo.de/blog/posts/2017-04-10-introducing-anbox/
Apr 12 08:57:59 <KotCzarny> i wonder if n900 could use it
Apr 12 09:14:34 <bencoh> KotCzarny: porting all the "recent" android kernel features to the old maemo kernel would probably be a pain
Apr 12 09:14:48 <KotCzarny> what about pali's kernel?
Apr 12 09:15:14 <bencoh> and I'd feel for the guy trying to build anbox for maemo using https://snapcraft.io/
Apr 12 09:16:02 <bencoh> KotCzarny: pali's tree is following mainline closely, so it wouldn't be too hard to merge back from recent kernels
Apr 12 09:16:34 <bencoh> it's actually what people do when they merge android patches back to mainline
Apr 12 09:16:55 <bencoh> (for the parts that are not already merged, or in staging/)
Apr 12 09:47:35 <jonwil> I am surprised no-one has made something that lets you run Android apps on Linux in the same way WINE lets you run Windows apps on Linux. Replace the low-level Android specific libraries (including GPU drivers etc) with mapping libraries that map them to standard linux equivalents. Anything that isn't too specifically tied to the unique features of Android or specific hardware could be...
Apr 12 09:47:37 <jonwil> ...ported over to Linux.
Apr 12 09:48:03 <jonwil> Or maybe what I talk about exists and I just haven't heard of it.
Apr 12 09:48:28 <KotCzarny> jonwil: that anbox seems doing something similar
Apr 12 09:54:04 <sicelo> there was also something a while ago doing same thing .. shashlik i think
Apr 12 15:34:42 <DocScrutinizer05> hi rhombus
Apr 12 15:34:49 <rhombus> Hi DocScrutinizer05
Apr 12 15:35:29 <DocScrutinizer05> for a start with maemo, let me ask infobot for a few factoids
Apr 12 15:35:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flashing
Apr 12 15:35:41 <infobot> methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
Apr 12 15:35:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Apr 12 15:35:51 <infobot> lazyflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Apr 12 15:36:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Apr 12 15:36:02 <infobot> cssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
Apr 12 15:36:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jr-repos
Apr 12 15:36:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrrepos
Apr 12 15:36:18 <infobot> well, jrrepos is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/
Apr 12 15:36:39 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter to compensate for the Nokia repos that went down
Apr 12 15:37:00 <rhombus> wow, neat
Apr 12 15:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> for experienced linuxers:
Apr 12 15:37:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Apr 12 15:37:17 <infobot> from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Apr 12 15:38:09 <DocScrutinizer05> alas there's no up-to-date concise "maemo beginners howto"
Apr 12 15:38:39 <rhombus> no worries, I should be able to manage
Apr 12 15:38:44 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Apr 12 15:38:54 <rhombus> brb
Apr 12 15:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> if *any* qustions arise, please don't hesitate to ask here. 
Apr 12 15:41:51 <rhombus> back
Apr 12 15:41:53 <rhombus> ok
Apr 12 15:41:56 <rhombus> that's good to know
Apr 12 15:43:16 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: Damn, the battery on my N900 is almost empty again. After two days. Is that normal? This battery is new.
Apr 12 15:44:08 <DocScrutinizer05> well, if it was powered up all the time (and maybe not even CSSU patches installed) then yes, 2 days uptime is what you can expect
Apr 12 15:45:24 <DocScrutinizer05> when it supposedly been powered down (not just locked screen) then the battery should not see significant drain during months
Apr 12 15:46:50 <DocScrutinizer05> with CSSU and disabling a few hogs like skype and don't know OM-weather and the like, your uptime should be >7 days when you either didn't enable WLAN or are associated to a good WLAN AP
Apr 12 15:47:08 <DocScrutinizer05> WLAN search for APs is known to be a battery hog
Apr 12 15:48:21 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why in network settings you can chose the period time for WLAN searching for Access Points
Apr 12 15:48:22 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: Ah, ok. It was on two days, WLAN is activated and I haven't made any other changes to the configuration, so I guess that explains it.
Apr 12 15:48:34 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Apr 12 15:49:10 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: My search interval is 10 minutes
Apr 12 15:49:10 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly when it wasn't logged in to a WLAN AP, or that AP doesn't support PowerSavingsMode
Apr 12 15:50:25 <DocScrutinizer05> it's dramatic. Seach for APs uses like a few hundret times more power than being logged in. So when device does a 1 minute search every 10 minutes...
Apr 12 15:51:29 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: ouch -- 1 minute?
Apr 12 15:51:40 <rhombus> So, I should choose a longer interval
Apr 12 15:52:02 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, it needs to scan all channels and wait for all 'visible' stations to send their beacon and ID
Apr 12 15:52:24 <Enrico_Menotti> DocScrutinizer05 I'm reading your conversation with rhombus . I have a question. Does jrrepos contain also the original Maemo images? And Nokia's flasher? Up to now, I've been using ones from a mirror found at Archive.org.
Apr 12 15:52:42 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: Can I just manually tell it to look for a WLAN?
Apr 12 15:53:03 <DocScrutinizer05> erstazi: no, this is just for the maemo core system packages
Apr 12 15:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: ^^^ sorry#
Apr 12 15:53:28 <DocScrutinizer05> rhombus: sure
Apr 12 15:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> set period to "never"
Apr 12 15:53:47 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: How do I do that if an interval has been set?
Apr 12 15:53:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^
Apr 12 15:54:49 <rhombus> What I mean is, if the interval has been set, it won't check between intervals. But maybe I am in an area with WLAN and want to use it. How do I force a search?
Apr 12 15:54:50 <DocScrutinizer05> wait, it's a tiny bit more 'complex'. Sth like "switch to WLAN if available: never"
Apr 12 15:54:56 * DocScrutinizer05 checks
Apr 12 15:56:28 <DocScrutinizer05> app settings -> internet connections -> "automatically connect: <no wlan>"
Apr 12 15:57:54 <DocScrutinizer05> so choose either "always ask" or <your cellular internet access>
Apr 12 15:58:24 <DocScrutinizer05> do not choose "WLAN" or "any connection"
Apr 12 15:58:39 <sicelo> you don't force a check ... just open your Internet-using application and it will search (or just choose it in the connection dialog on status menu)
Apr 12 15:59:20 <DocScrutinizer05> what sicelo said
Apr 12 16:00:09 <DocScrutinizer05> click in status bar to open menu, click on "<your internet connection>" button. It opens a requester searching for all connections currently available
Apr 12 16:00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> you can also shut down the existing connection in that dialog
Apr 12 16:01:41 <DocScrutinizer05> iow the opening of that dialog forces a WLAN scan
Apr 12 16:02:03 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: including WLAN, even if it is disabled in Internet connections?
Apr 12 16:02:17 <rhombus> ok
Apr 12 16:02:20 <DocScrutinizer05> some apps might open the dialog for you when they need internet access
Apr 12 16:02:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Apr 12 16:02:27 <rhombus> ok
Apr 12 16:02:50 <DocScrutinizer05> it's pretty convenient and easy&clear
Apr 12 16:02:52 <sicelo> very simple, and intuitive, imo. :)
Apr 12 16:02:55 <sicelo> ack
Apr 12 16:03:24 * DocScrutinizer05 highfives sicelo :-)
Apr 12 16:04:41 <rhombus> what's the right way to move the scroll bar that appears at the right side of the screen when the requester comes up?
Apr 12 16:04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> but before you start learning to know and love your N900, make sure you had reflashed it to latest clean OS 
Apr 12 16:05:07 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: Ok, that will be my next project.
Apr 12 16:05:11 <DocScrutinizer05> never use a OS pre-installed by somebody else
Apr 12 16:05:18 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: Right!!!!!!!
Apr 12 16:05:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflasjing
Apr 12 16:05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Apr 12 16:05:28 <infobot> i heard lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Apr 12 16:05:35 <rhombus> So far I haven't sent anything really sensitive with this phone
Apr 12 16:05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm a tad fond of that
Apr 12 16:05:40 <rhombus> ok
Apr 12 16:06:12 <DocScrutinizer05> lazyflashing is fun
Apr 12 16:06:22 <rhombus> Looks simple
Apr 12 16:06:35 <DocScrutinizer05> and really just one c&p to your linux PC terminal
Apr 12 16:07:04 <DocScrutinizer05> (unless your OS doesn't have any support for 32bit anymore)
Apr 12 16:07:28 <rhombus> DocScrutinizer05: why wouldn't it?
Apr 12 16:07:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I tried to cope with that, but there are too many linux OS out there, with different pacjage managers etc
Apr 12 16:07:57 <rhombus> I am pretty sure I still have 32-bit compatibility
Apr 12 16:08:08 <DocScrutinizer05> well, lately more and more distros drop 32bit support
Apr 12 16:08:55 <rhombus> How can I test whether I have 32-bit support? (I'm running Gentoo, FWIW)
Apr 12 16:08:56 <DocScrutinizer05> my lazyflasher tries to work around it, usinf LD_PRELOAD but that's a terrible botch
Apr 12 16:09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> you *might* need to manually install 32bit legacy libs
Apr 12 16:10:20 * DocScrutinizer05 prolly should employ 0xffff flasher eventually, for lazyflasher
Apr 12 16:11:13 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks to Pali we have that FOSS flasher alternative, and of course it will work with 54bit system
Apr 12 16:11:25 <DocScrutinizer05> 64*
Apr 12 16:11:45 <DocScrutinizer05> but first try lazyflashing! :-)
Apr 12 16:12:09 <DocScrutinizer05> odds are you already finished flashing while I still tried to explain :-D
Apr 12 16:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:12 - 19:05, 7 minutes. More than enough time to complete the lazyflashing procedure
Apr 12 16:13:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Apr 12 16:15:11 <DocScrutinizer05> bbl
Apr 12 16:22:31 <rhombus> haha
Apr 12 16:22:38 <rhombus> I will have to do that when I am at home
Apr 12 16:22:42 <rhombus> At work at the moment
Apr 12 16:22:46 <rhombus> and on that note...
Apr 12 16:23:13 <rhombus> I must return to work -- but thanks for the tips and information! I'm looking forward to the new firmware :P
Apr 12 17:04:51 <Enrico_Menotti> I am a bit in a trouble with the keyboard (in Debian). I have been able to set up the rx51 keyboard by editing /etc/default/keyboard. I've set XKBMODEL="nokiarx51" and XKBLAYOUT="it". This allows Italian keys to be used. But I'd need some special characters: |, ~, escape, etc. I tried editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51, but nothing seems to change. I also don't understand where the nokiarx51 config
Apr 12 17:04:51 <Enrico_Menotti>  file is stored (/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst doesn't report that keyboard model as available). Maybe I should ask #debian, please let me know whether this be the case.
Apr 12 17:13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Apr 12 17:14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> not maemo specific and not even sovable in a maemo environment since your debian differs
Apr 12 17:16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> in maemo you don't have special symbols on hw kbd, we have a special vkbd for that. so see "vi's awesome keyboard maopping"
Apr 12 17:16:24 <DocScrutinizer05> I pointed you to that a few days ago already
Apr 12 17:17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard
Apr 12 17:18:36 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping
Apr 12 17:18:39 <Enrico_Menotti> Yes, ok, I am looking at that. There I found /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51.
Apr 12 17:19:52 <DocScrutinizer05> >>I use the english layout. All (useful) symbols have been added to the keyboard rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant.<<
Apr 12 17:30:41 <DocScrutinizer05> "rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant" is exactly what you need since debian has no such vkbd menu on ctrl+blue
Apr 12 17:32:39 <DocScrutinizer05> and you probably couldn't even get it easily since it's maemo specific prolly closed blob and very window manager dependent
Apr 12 17:33:45 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, no problem, I will manage some way to remap the keyboard. Thanks.
Apr 12 17:34:34 <DocScrutinizer05> but honestly I still fail to understand the purpose of this "get debian on N900" execise, particularly when a exactly equivalent community effort right now is making a "Devuan on N900"
Apr 12 17:35:42 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean there's a reason why the community effort is based on devuan, not debian
Apr 12 17:36:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and your learning exercises could help the devuan effort instead of being wasted into debian
Apr 12 17:36:48 <Enrico_Menotti> DocScrutinizer05 Ok, maybe I could switch to Devuan. In particular if in this way I could integrate a bit with the community. I am playing with Debian just because when I started with that I did not know anything about Devuan.
Apr 12 17:37:23 <DocScrutinizer05> devuan is basically just debian sand systemd cancer
Apr 12 17:37:31 <DocScrutinizer05> sans*
Apr 12 17:37:55 <DocScrutinizer05> plus explicit partnership and support with maemo community
Apr 12 17:38:20 <Enrico_Menotti> The only reason why I'm insisting with Debian now is that I already installed it on my spare computer...
Apr 12 17:38:25 <Enrico_Menotti> :)
Apr 12 17:39:23 <DocScrutinizer05> migration to devuan is easy
Apr 12 17:39:32 <Enrico_Menotti> How to?
Apr 12 17:40:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#devuan migrate instructions
Apr 12 17:40:06 <infobot> [#devuan migrate instructions] https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=20
Apr 12 17:45:33 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, thank you. I see these instructions are specific to Debian, so I'm ready for that. I will read them carefully and probably migrate in a few days. Just a question: is Devuan available without a GUI? (My old spare computer is slow and memoryless, and I think I don't need a GUI for my purposes.)
Apr 12 17:57:32 <KotCzarny> think of devuan as 'debian with one package removed'
Apr 12 17:58:48 <KotCzarny> (grossly simplified)
Apr 12 19:40:34 <Zungo> Enrico_Menotti: if debian is available for your computer, then devuan is likely to be too
Apr 12 19:40:53 <Zungo> :)
Apr 12 19:40:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and just today devuan rolls out RC
Apr 12 19:40:59 <Zungo> a bit late but on well
Apr 12 19:41:05 <Zungo> cool
Apr 12 19:41:14 <Zungo> good morning also(?)
Apr 12 19:41:24 <Zungo> im not sure
Apr 12 19:41:38 <Enrico_Menotti> Zungo Yes, I have read the page with instructions on how to migrate. I will do that.
Apr 12 19:42:42 <Enrico_Menotti> For now, I'd like to try a few more things with Debian, just to learn. I'm still struggling with the keyboard. The std Italian one is working, but I'm unable to customise it. Strange.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 13 03:00:03 2017