**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 19 03:00:04 2017
Apr 19 07:38:26 <NotKit> Wizzup, do you have ARM hildon-desktop packages?
Apr 19 07:48:43 <NotKit> wonder if this can be interesting for Maemo UI - https://www.xda-developers.com/halium-is-an-open-source-project-working-towards-a-common-base-for-non-android-mobile-operating-systems/
Apr 19 08:09:01 <bencoh> NotKit: could be interesting to ease "porting"
Apr 19 08:09:30 <bencoh> (ie porting to android-powered devices)
Apr 19 09:09:50 <Wizzup> NotKit: do they only have chat rooms, or also a website? The article doesn't seem to mention one
Apr 19 09:10:10 <Wizzup> NotKit: no arm packages yet, waiting on amprolla. Reason to do intel first is that 3d accel is not a total mess on intel.
Apr 19 09:10:51 <Zungo> actually since its pc, 3d accel support is more broad :)
Apr 19 09:16:04 <Wizzup> When I said intel I meant amd64
Apr 19 09:16:20 <KotCzarny> just say x86_64
Apr 19 09:16:22 <Wizzup> but essentially anything with decent PCI support works OK with 3d graphics, as you can plug in an amd card
Apr 19 09:16:31 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: that'd not be correct :)
Apr 19 09:16:43 <KotCzarny> asnt amd64 just that?
Apr 19 09:16:46 <KotCzarny> *isnt
Apr 19 09:17:01 <KotCzarny> unless context is something else
Apr 19 09:17:58 <KotCzarny> x86-64 (also known as x64, x86_64 and AMD64) is the 64-bit version of the x86 instruction set
Apr 19 09:18:05 <KotCzarny> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
Apr 19 09:18:39 <Wizzup> AMD64 was created as an alternative to the radically different IA-64 architecture, which was designed by Intel and Hewlett Packard. Originally announced in 1999[13] while a full specification became available in August 2000,[14] the AMD64 architecture was positioned by AMD from the beginning as an evolutionary way to add 64-bit computing capabilities to the existing x86 architecture, as opposed to Intel's 
Apr 19 09:18:45 <Wizzup> approach of creating an entirely new 64-bit architecture with IA-64.
Apr 19 09:18:47 <Wizzup> The first AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was released in April 2003.
Apr 19 09:19:49 <KotCzarny> yes, but intel's 64bit x86 cpu joined it
Apr 19 09:20:18 <KotCzarny> The original specification, created by AMD and released in 2000, has been implemented by AMD, Intel and VIA
Apr 19 09:20:31 <Wizzup> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Industry_naming_conventions
Apr 19 09:20:47 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: it's still the name for it with all distros I use
Apr 19 09:20:54 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 19 09:21:00 <Wizzup> and since I wanted to refer to generic 64 bit x86, amd64 is the proper term
Apr 19 09:21:06 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 19 09:21:08 <Wizzup> I didn't want to refer to intel-only computers
Apr 19 09:21:27 <KotCzarny> but people who dont know that could be confused by 'amd' part
Apr 19 09:21:41 <KotCzarny> that's why x86_64 or x64 is often used
Apr 19 09:22:35 <Wizzup> but ... nobody except the linux kernel and gcc :p 
Apr 19 09:22:37 <Wizzup> s/but/by/
Apr 19 09:22:38 <infobot> Wizzup meant: by ... nobody except the linux kernel and gcc :p 
Apr 19 09:22:38 <Wizzup> anyway
Apr 19 09:24:37 <KotCzarny> and linux kernel and gcc are quite hard core of almost all linux systems
Apr 19 09:24:52 <Wizzup> I'd like to interject for a moment
Apr 19 09:29:35 <DocScrutinizer05> https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-03-02/?msg=81815088&page=2
Apr 19 09:47:25 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: x86 isn't intel specific, it's the canonical generic name for the IA. Intel64 would be intel specific
Apr 19 09:48:08 <Wizzup> ...
Apr 19 09:48:18 <Wizzup> It's called amd64; I don't care if you think it's not sensible
Apr 19 09:48:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, debian calls "it" that way
Apr 19 09:49:50 <Wizzup> not just debian. all distros out there except for ... dragonflybsd and some obscure linux ones
Apr 19 09:51:17 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the way they call that build since it was originally done for AMD and later on worked for other manufacurers' CPUs as well. But the IA is x86
Apr 19 09:53:22 <DocScrutinizer05> >>way to add 64-bit computing capabilities to the existing x86 architecture<<
Apr 19 09:54:47 <KotCzarny> ia64 is itanium and compatible only with intel's itanium cpus
Apr 19 09:56:30 <KotCzarny> also, doesnt gentoo use x86_64 ?
Apr 19 09:56:49 <KotCzarny> since it's relying on gcc so its more natural there
Apr 19 09:57:11 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: no, it uses amd64
Apr 19 09:57:33 <Wizzup> but guys ... big deal
Apr 19 09:58:12 <KotCzarny> well, they have 'amd64 (x86_64)' in their handbook
Apr 19 09:58:16 <KotCzarny> so they use both ;)
Apr 19 09:58:36 <KotCzarny> still, it doesnt matter much
Apr 19 09:58:36 <Wizzup> If you want to (un)keyword a package, you have to write ~amd64 verbatim
Apr 19 09:59:00 <KotCzarny> just saying that it might be confusing for noobs and requires some explanation
Apr 19 09:59:26 <KotCzarny> amd got themselves place forever in that part
Apr 19 10:00:30 <Wizzup> they deserve it.
Apr 19 10:00:31 <Wizzup> bbl ;) 
Apr 19 11:08:42 <NeKit> Wizzup, as for website, not yet, http://halium.org/ has only placeholder
Apr 19 11:15:54 <Maxdamantus> well, IA-64 simply isn't x86_64/amd64
Apr 19 11:17:26 <Maxdamantus> fwiw, Linux uses x86_64
Apr 19 11:17:49 <Maxdamantus> and the gcc target is usually x86_64
Apr 19 11:18:09 <Maxdamantus> (I suspect those are bound to each other)
Apr 19 11:18:56 <KotCzarny> yeah, by instruction set for example ;)
Apr 19 11:19:59 <Maxdamantus> "the IA is x86" sounds wrong
Apr 19 11:20:26 <Maxdamantus> afaik, "IA" refers to Itanium, which .. again, afaik, is pretty much independent of x86
Apr 19 11:20:27 <KotCzarny> it is wrong
Apr 19 11:21:02 <warfare> I think "IA" here refers to "Instruction Architecture" like m68k, armv7, etc. 
Apr 19 11:21:10 <Maxdamantus> Oh.
Apr 19 11:21:12 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: 11:20 < Wizzup> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Industry_naming_conventions
Apr 19 11:21:54 <Maxdamantus> anyway, as long as noone calls it "x64" I don't mind.
Apr 19 11:22:09 <warfare> MS does ;) 
Apr 19 11:22:15 <Maxdamantus> I know.
Apr 19 11:22:49 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 19 11:25:37 <Wizzup> warfare: they call it amd64
Apr 19 11:25:52 <Maxdamantus> "instruction architecture" doesn't seem to be a common term.
Apr 19 11:26:00 <Wizzup> Microsoft Windows's x64 versions use the AMD64 moniker internally to designate various components which use or are compatible with this architecture. For example, the environment variable PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE is assigned the value "AMD64" as opposed to "x86" in 32-bit versions, and the system directory on a Windows x64 Edition installation CD-ROM is named "AMD64", in contrast to "i386" in 32-bit 
Apr 19 11:26:06 <Wizzup> versions.[80]
Apr 19 11:26:18 <Maxdamantus> "IA" in "IA-64" seems to just mean "Itanium architecture"
Apr 19 11:26:46 <Maxdamantus> (there's of course the common acronym "ISA" though)
Apr 19 11:27:42 <warfare> I might just have mixed this up :) 
Apr 19 11:29:16 <Maxdamantus> also, even though debian calls it amd64 in its packages, I think it uses "x86-64" in the filesystem.
Apr 19 11:29:45 <Maxdamantus> eg, I think it has some /lib/linux-x86-64 or something directory.
Apr 19 11:29:56 <jon_y> vendor neutral pronouns :)
Apr 19 11:30:21 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: that is per binutils/gcc more than choice
Apr 19 11:30:28 <Maxdamantus> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
Apr 19 11:30:36 <Wizzup> that is the gcc tuple name, isn't that obvious?
Apr 19 11:30:56 <Maxdamantus> as for vendor neutrality, as Wizzup's link said, AMD called it "x86-64"
Apr 19 11:31:55 <jon_y> UEFI calls it x64
Apr 19 11:32:09 <jon_y> BOOTX64.EFI as defined in the specs
Apr 19 11:32:09 * Wizzup checks the channel name and seems #maemo, not #pedants
Apr 19 11:32:12 * Wizzup shrugs
Apr 19 11:32:17 <Wizzup> s/seems/sees/
Apr 19 11:32:18 <jon_y> :)
Apr 19 11:33:15 <KotCzarny> it's irc, which has 'internet' as a first word
Apr 19 11:33:23 <KotCzarny> which means, we have to be 100% correct!
Apr 19 11:33:59 <Wizzup> Or, be incapable of realising that we all agree in the first place, and instead argue on forever about meaningless things
Apr 19 11:34:28 <bencoh> :) (or rather :( in that specific case)
Apr 19 11:35:19 <bencoh> Wizzup: regarding halium, the article mentions #halium@freenode, halium on telegram, and #halium:matrix.org)
Apr 19 11:35:36 <Wizzup> Yeah; exactly, but no website to quickly get an idea of what they'll do
Apr 19 11:37:16 <warfare> https://xkcd.com/386/ (what a fitting number) 
Apr 19 11:38:08 <bencoh> :]
Apr 19 11:40:41 <bencoh> https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/007842.html "Currently this project idea is codenamed Halium. Overall idea for the project is
Apr 19 11:40:44 <bencoh> drafted at the https://tinyurl.com/halium"
Apr 19 11:40:52 <bencoh> but this tinyurl doesn't seem to work :/
Apr 19 11:41:15 <bencoh> ah nevermind, it does work without trailing ,
Apr 19 14:49:51 <MetalGearSolid>  /set irc.look.buffer_switch_autojoin off
Apr 19 14:55:13 <sicelo> :)
Apr 19 15:12:32 <Vajb> umm is there someone still bouncing in and out?
Apr 19 15:13:36 <bencoh> I suppose so, I decided to ignore his join/part/quit
Apr 19 15:14:01 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 19 15:14:04 <KotCzarny> it stopped
Apr 19 15:15:03 <Vajb> i ignore all part/join/quits
Apr 19 15:15:23 <Vajb> very convenient in a big silent channel
Apr 19 15:52:32 <bencoh> hmm, I wonder if anyone tried https://github.com/mozilla/webrtc-standalone
Apr 19 15:52:41 <bencoh> or https://www.openwebrtc.org/
Apr 19 15:53:20 <bencoh> I suppose that could be used with webrtc-powered A/V call services
Apr 19 16:18:34 <bencoh> meh, openwebrtc needs gstreamer-1.0 ...
Apr 19 16:18:59 <bencoh> so this would be unusable on n900, unless we decide to port libgstdsp to gstreamer-1.x
Apr 19 18:54:06 <freemangordon> bencoh: shouldn;t be that hard
Apr 19 19:20:30 <bencoh> freemangordon: maybe, I never seriously compared both APIs
Apr 19 19:46:57 <Zungo> Vajb: there was, he fixed his issue
Apr 19 19:52:02 <Vajb> Zungo: yup. I saw it from the logs :)
Apr 20 00:32:05 <michael_a330> ~lazyflash
Apr 20 00:32:16 <michael_a330> ~flash
Apr 20 00:32:17 <infobot> [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 20 03:00:01 2017