**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 29 03:00:02 2017
Jun 29 03:58:35 <Juesto> hey
Jun 29 03:59:52 <Juesto> shouldn't be easier to get maemo working on something like Ubuntu which uses upstart?
Jun 29 04:06:04 <L29Ah> something like ubuntu uses fresh glibc that can't run on something like 2.6.28 that runs on n900, and the upstream kernel hardware support is incomplete and for some parts incompatible with maemo's interfaces
Jun 29 07:53:07 <sixwheeledbeast^> maemo has upstart anyway and ubuntu is now on systemd due to having to follow Debian. This I guess has left upstart un-maintained. 
Jun 29 10:20:04 <Wikiwide> Should I enable CSSU-devel repository if I already have CSSU-thumb enabled?
Jun 29 10:21:56 <bencoh> cssu-devel really is "devel"
Jun 29 10:22:02 <bencoh> it's not meant for regular use
Jun 29 10:41:14 <Wikiwide> Okay. Will not risk it for everyday device, especially due to lack of microUSB port.
Jun 29 12:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> cssu-devel *IS* broken - by definition
Jun 29 12:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> what you want is cssu-testing which is supposed to have all working packages
Jun 29 12:31:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and afaik cssu-thumb alrady is an overlay to cssu-t, which in turn is an overlay to maemo core repos
Jun 29 12:34:22 <DocScrutinizer05> so to make this utterly clear: when you ask apt to install a package, then (if you git thumb config) it shall first look into cssu-thumb, then if not found there it looks into cssu-testing, then finally it shall try to get from maemo core repos and possibly maemo-tools and other auciliary repos
Jun 29 12:34:57 <DocScrutinizer05> s/git/got/
Jun 29 12:34:58 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: so to make this utterly clear: when you ask apt to install a package, then (if you got thumb config) it shall first look into cssu-thumb, then if not found there it looks into cssu-testing, then finally it shall try to get from maemo core repos and possib...
Jun 29 12:37:39 <DocScrutinizer05> it's all about priorities of repos
Jun 29 12:41:05 <DocScrutinizer05> cssu-thumb is replacing *some* packages found in lower prio repos (I.E. cssu-t and genuine Nokia/maemo-extras repos) by a specially compiked version (some compiler flags basically) that results in smaller binary that only runs on systems with powerkernel_thumbpatched
Jun 29 12:41:31 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't want any other higer prio repo than cssu-thunb in your config
Jun 29 12:43:13 <DocScrutinizer05> smae basically applies to CSSU at large, just CSSU has packages with bugfixes replacing packages from lower prio repos
Jun 29 12:44:08 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo-extras is NOT supposed to repkace any packages from nokia core repos aka system
Jun 29 12:44:43 <DocScrutinizer05> so maemo-extras is strictly supplementary
Jun 29 12:45:05 <DocScrutinizer05> gosh my typing sucks, sorry
Jun 29 15:27:34 <freemangordon> parazyd: do I get it right that maemo-devuan packages has to be in a repo hosted on maemo servers?
Jun 29 15:31:18 <DocScrutinizer05> good question, I don't think the usual amprolla operation works nice with the classical maemo repo structure
Jun 29 15:31:38 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc the idea was to have a true full repo for maemo-devuan
Jun 29 15:31:45 <DocScrutinizer05> on devuan
Jun 29 15:32:31 <DocScrutinizer05> so you'd need to port *all* packages
Jun 29 15:32:45 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: yes, but if this is not accepted by devuan guys we will have to host it on maemo servers
Jun 29 15:32:51 <freemangordon> no, why all packages?
Jun 29 15:33:01 <freemangordon> it will be a separate repo (if it comes to it)
Jun 29 15:33:23 <DocScrutinizer05> well, all you want to use, at least. Since you can't 'mirror' to e.g. maemo-extras
Jun 29 15:33:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and I'd not see how such a devuan specific repo should get hosted on maemo
Jun 29 15:33:59 <freemangordon> ah. but that was clear from the beginning
Jun 29 15:34:14 <DocScrutinizer05> needlessly complicated, and no rationale for that
Jun 29 15:34:22 <freemangordon> lets wait for parazyd to elaborate
Jun 29 15:34:57 <Wizzup> freemangordon: I think that was unclear still
Jun 29 15:34:58 <DocScrutinizer05> jaromil told me he'd love to host the complete maemo-devuan, no need to spread it over several domains
Jun 29 15:35:32 <freemangordon> Wizzup: at least not clear to me what was decided :)
Jun 29 15:36:12 <DocScrutinizer05> and "using the complete devuan CI" makes sense only when the repo and don't know-what_autobuilder(?) lives on one server, no?
Jun 29 15:37:25 <Wizzup> fwiw. 'complete maemo-devuan' = whatever extra pkgs we want to add on std devuan (e.g. h-d related packages). definitely not init systems or lots of other things they already have
Jun 29 15:37:38 <freemangordon> no, why, it might work the same way as maemo infra I guess, spread over several servers
Jun 29 15:38:17 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe several servers but for sure not several domains
Jun 29 15:38:49 <freemangordon> anway, lets wait for parazyd as we're doing wild guesses now
Jun 29 15:39:40 <Wizzup> so what we want works just fine with amprolla3
Jun 29 15:40:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: yeah, that's what I wonder how much of maemo will be in maemo-devuan in the end. Prolly not much
Jun 29 15:40:14 <parazyd> hey
Jun 29 15:40:16 <parazyd> patience
Jun 29 15:40:18 <parazyd> let me type it out
Jun 29 15:40:25 <Wizzup> whatever is worth savind can be ported over time ;)
Jun 29 15:40:51 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: this is snother story
Jun 29 15:40:52 <parazyd> jenkins needs a place to push the packages. dan doesn't want to host it on the devuan infra
Jun 29 15:40:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm personally not interested nuch in a rebase-port
Jun 29 15:40:55 <freemangordon> *another
Jun 29 15:41:03 <parazyd> but we can host it on some dyne infra if necessary
Jun 29 15:41:07 <freemangordon> parazyd: ah, I see
Jun 29 15:41:09 <parazyd> but i need someone who knows how to setup dak
Jun 29 15:41:15 <parazyd> or whatever repo manager
Jun 29 15:41:24 <parazyd> then you use amprolla to merge packages you build with devuan's
Jun 29 15:41:38 <parazyd> and you only host the maemo packages built by jenkins
Jun 29 15:41:52 <freemangordon> parazyd: ok, it is clearer now
Jun 29 15:42:05 <parazyd> and in fact you won't need that much space
Jun 29 15:42:23 <parazyd> i'm guessing armhf/arm64/i386/amd64 is enough
Jun 29 15:42:47 <parazyd> i'm pretty sure i can host this on a machine in our lab in an lxc
Jun 29 15:43:12 <freemangordon> so, from the end-user perspective, one have to add maemo-devuan repos, hosted on maemo servers in order to be able to install ported hildon-desktop, right?
Jun 29 15:43:23 <Wizzup> yes
Jun 29 15:43:26 <parazyd> yes, let's call it amprolla.maemo.org
Jun 29 15:43:43 <parazyd> and that's the repository hosting the merged Packages files, and only maemo debs
Jun 29 15:43:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think a "hmm, devuan is working now on N900, but I'd love to throw in hildon desktop instead of LXDE" has high attractivity, neither is it sustainable in the end from a perspective of manpower needed
Jun 29 15:43:56 <parazyd> other debs are retrieved by nginx rewrites from devuan/debian
Jun 29 15:44:08 <freemangordon> parazyd: what about armel target?
Jun 29 15:44:13 <parazyd> sure
Jun 29 15:44:15 <parazyd> anything
Jun 29 15:44:32 <parazyd> i'm actually getting a few boards soon that were donated for the devuan build infra
Jun 29 15:44:39 <parazyd> so have to set them up as build slaves
Jun 29 15:45:25 <parazyd> i'll be on and off until tuesday since i'm holding a workshop in france, but i'll try to manage and setup an lxc for you for this stuff
Jun 29 15:45:40 <Wizzup> parazyd: so we can't just have the maemo-devuan pkgs in a repo without amprolla magic?
Jun 29 15:45:46 <parazyd> and then i guess try to find someone who knows how to setup dak. i'll ask for more info how it has to be setup
Jun 29 15:45:46 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is NOT about n900, but about rebasing maemo and running it on whatever device that can boot linux and has 3d drivers
Jun 29 15:45:52 <parazyd> Wizzup: no, you cannot
Jun 29 15:45:53 <Wizzup> if we just add it in addition to normal devuan pkg repos
Jun 29 15:46:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd prefer the approach to throw in devuan's kernel and core system into a full size maemo
Jun 29 15:46:16 <parazyd> Wizzup: you merge the maemo packages with devuan using amprolla
Jun 29 15:46:21 <freemangordon> this is the goal, but it will take time
Jun 29 15:46:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ^^^
Jun 29 15:46:56 <DocScrutinizer05> your means determine the goal you can reach
Jun 29 15:47:06 * freemangordon is going to have something to eat, bbl
Jun 29 15:47:22 <DocScrutinizer05> when you start out with a plain devuan it will never be a full maemo any time
Jun 29 15:47:42 <parazyd> which is why the packages are being ported
Jun 29 15:47:52 <DocScrutinizer05> when you start with a full working maemo you can throw in devuan parts on a when-needed basis
Jun 29 15:48:24 <bencoh> ...
Jun 29 15:48:28 <parazyd> i don't think that's sustainable imho
Jun 29 15:48:40 <parazyd> and doesn't work the way you think it works
Jun 29 15:48:43 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: *no* you can't and we've been through this a dozen time
Jun 29 15:49:47 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, we've been through this a dizen times and I not once heard a compelling argument how the "start with plain devuan" approach would eventually result in a full featured maemo
Jun 29 15:50:29 <DocScrutinizer05> at least not maemo6, maybe maemo8
Jun 29 15:50:39 <DocScrutinizer05> s/maemo6/maemo5/
Jun 29 15:50:40 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: at least not maemo5, maybe maemo8
Jun 29 15:51:20 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: unless you're going to do the work, why go over it again?
Jun 29 15:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
Jun 29 16:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> there's nothing unusual with "backports", you got that in every distro. However maemo-devuan looks like a forward port of _some_ parts of maemo to devuan, not like a backport of some devuan stuff to maemo, when needed or desirable
Jun 29 16:01:56 <Wizzup> correct, the aim is to produce something that is not loaded with ancient crypto libs and other baggage
Jun 29 16:02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> the difference being: forward port of maemo could as well happen to any arbitrary other distro
Jun 29 16:02:08 <Wizzup> you can try to implement your way and see how it goes
Jun 29 16:03:18 <parazyd> DocScrutinizer05: jaromil says he never offered such a thing (hosting maemo-devuan)
Jun 29 16:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks, captain obvious. I heard that bullshit every single time when people are too polite to simply state "I know better, so shut up and take or leave the stuff I do"
Jun 29 16:03:48 <DocScrutinizer05> then I got that wrong
Jun 29 16:04:14 <parazyd> he says we can't  ensure reliability for anyone
Jun 29 16:04:23 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe because of that difference in approach
Jun 29 16:04:45 <parazyd> the CI is ok to use, but can't depend on the infra to do backups/bandwith
Jun 29 16:05:14 <parazyd> maybe you confused it with the usage of CI/jenkins?
Jun 29 16:05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I thought we'd host backports on maemo-devuan, you want (or don't want) to host a complete new unrelated distro there
Jun 29 16:05:37 <Wizzup> parazyd: it's nbd to host it
Jun 29 16:05:59 <parazyd> ok
Jun 29 16:06:17 <freemangordon> parazyd: I guess maemo admin won;t refuse to host one more repo with a couple of hundred packages
Jun 29 16:06:37 <freemangordon> merlin1991: propozed setting up reprepo, is it ok?
Jun 29 16:06:38 <DocScrutinizer05> in my book maemo-devuan was an overlay of xsorts, just like CSSU
Jun 29 16:06:58 <parazyd> freemangordon: from my understanding any repo manager is okay
Jun 29 16:07:03 <Wizzup> overlay on top of devuan
Jun 29 16:07:07 <freemangordon> I mean "merlin proposed..."
Jun 29 16:07:17 <parazyd> yeah i understood
Jun 29 16:07:27 <freemangordon> which is what maemo is after all - an overlay on top of debian
Jun 29 16:07:27 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, technically there's no problem to hostz that stuff on maemo infra
Jun 29 16:07:47 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: yes, but it will need maintance as well I guess :)
Jun 29 16:07:53 <parazyd> as a matter of fact it could be even better since you already have the repository setup, no?
Jun 29 16:08:03 <parazyd> might require tweaks only
Jun 29 16:08:17 <parazyd> anyway, as said, i'm going to find out more about the needs for this
Jun 29 16:08:19 <merlin1991> nah "that repository" is something you don't want to add to
Jun 29 16:08:26 <freemangordon> mhm :D
Jun 29 16:08:26 <DocScrutinizer05> yres, and I don't think anybody is going to implement devuan's infra on maemo
Jun 29 16:08:37 <parazyd> merlin1991: separate repository, same server/manager isn't possible?
Jun 29 16:08:40 <merlin1991> it's powered by apt-ftparchive a bazillion folders and shellscripts...
Jun 29 16:08:43 <merlin1991> sure
Jun 29 16:08:45 <parazyd> oh
Jun 29 16:09:46 <parazyd> simply put, jenkins needs a place to push the .debs. then the repo manager would grab them, generate a repo out of them and amprolla would merge that one with devuan
Jun 29 16:10:01 <merlin1991> that's easy todo
Jun 29 16:10:04 <freemangordon> I guess it will not be a problem 
Jun 29 16:10:19 <merlin1991> my tool of choice would be reprepro since I know it
Jun 29 16:10:20 <parazyd> :)
Jun 29 16:10:33 <freemangordon> parazyd: where is that amprolla going to work? on maemo servers?
Jun 29 16:10:36 <parazyd> Centurion_Dan mentioned reprepo is okay iirc
Jun 29 16:10:46 <parazyd> freemangordon: i suppose so
Jun 29 16:10:49 <freemangordon> ok
Jun 29 16:11:00 <Wizzup> I think it's seperable somewhat
Jun 29 16:11:05 <parazyd> it can run remotely, but then you would have to rsync the data between servers
Jun 29 16:11:13 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I have to say that at least FPTF approach as discussed by several and agreed upon as feasible is _not_ related in _any_ way to what became of maremo-devuan now
Jun 29 16:11:26 <parazyd> actually
Jun 29 16:11:31 <parazyd> amprolla can run anywhere
Jun 29 16:11:39 <parazyd> i forgot it's nginx that does the rewrites
Jun 29 16:11:47 <parazyd> rewrites = pointers to .debs
Jun 29 16:12:04 <freemangordon> well, I guess it is better to run on a server, not on a laptop or mobile :)
Jun 29 16:12:10 <parazyd> yes ofcource
Jun 29 16:12:10 <Wizzup> lets get the reprepro workflow going
Jun 29 16:12:17 <parazyd> right
Jun 29 16:12:17 <Wizzup> worry about amprolla later
Jun 29 16:12:27 <parazyd> i'll ask if there are any specific needs for reprepo+jenkins
Jun 29 16:12:38 <freemangordon> lets wait for xes and warfare to have their saying
Jun 29 16:12:48 <parazyd> Centurion_Dan is in a +12 timezone
Jun 29 16:12:53 <merlin1991> if anything reprepro might start complaining about the incoming packages :D
Jun 29 16:13:02 <freemangordon> also, I guess we'll need some kind of approval from the council
Jun 29 16:13:03 <merlin1991> it's quite picky about everthing being in order
Jun 29 16:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> FPTF idea was to let maemo evolve bottom-up slowly and organically into what you hope to reach top-down in one huge effort now with maemo-devuan
Jun 29 16:13:49 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: on what device you're going to run that FPTF-maemo in two years?
Jun 29 16:15:54 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: my point - there is a lack of any linux based mobile distro (besides sailfish but it is disputable what kind of linux-based it is)
Jun 29 16:15:59 <parazyd> the neo900
Jun 29 16:16:04 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously on those that were targeted by the project, which was from genuine N900 as test platform to Neo900 to e.g beagleboard to padorabox to pyra and maybe eventually even to platforms that don't have OMAP CPU. In two years? no idea since obviosuly everybody thinks you could reach the endpoint of FPTF (run on non-OMAP) in less than 2 years
Jun 29 16:16:05 * parazyd ducks
Jun 29 16:16:44 <Wizzup> what's the point in carrying all that old sw? if it's not maintained and ported to new libs, it'll just rot forever
Jun 29 16:17:03 <Wizzup> the point was to take useful parts and have them, not everything per se
Jun 29 16:17:37 <DocScrutinizer05> and you decide what's useful in maemo? OK
Jun 29 16:17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> but don't call it maemo then
Jun 29 16:17:54 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: usefull is everything that is humanly possible to be ported
Jun 29 16:18:21 <Wizzup> why take devuan and then run maemo browser in its current shape on it?
Jun 29 16:18:53 <DocScrutinizer05> because a friggin lot of other maemo subsystems need that very browser?
Jun 29 16:19:12 <Wizzup> like?
Jun 29 16:19:22 <freemangordon> conversations and what else?
Jun 29 16:19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> messaging
Jun 29 16:19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> call history
Jun 29 16:19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> maps iirc
Jun 29 16:19:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: wrong, it is not using THAT browser, but whatever eal there is
Jun 29 16:19:59 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
Jun 29 16:20:07 <DocScrutinizer05> eal IS 'that browser'
Jun 29 16:20:26 <freemangordon> no, it is an interface to whatever browser you may want
Jun 29 16:20:37 <DocScrutinizer05> nitpicking
Jun 29 16:20:44 <Wizzup> lol
Jun 29 16:20:52 <DocScrutinizer05> and libcmt is an interface to whatever modem you want
Jun 29 16:21:23 <freemangordon> afaik no
Jun 29 16:24:16 <DocScrutinizer05> the question was >>why [...] run maemo browser [...] on it?" and the answer is: you want a browser that supports eal. Zhere's one that already does and of course "you are free to do the work to implement a better one"
Jun 29 16:25:04 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: continuing to use packages from 2009 is not a sane thing in my book
Jun 29 16:25:35 <freemangordon> and once you try to use newer, it pulls a huge pile of dependencies
Jun 29 16:25:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I think the answer to that is already in my last few posts
Jun 29 16:25:48 <freemangordon> and you have to port them as well
Jun 29 16:26:27 <freemangordon> and you're still outdated as while you were porting, a couple of CVE fixes appear and you have to again backport
Jun 29 16:26:43 <xes> WTF ...no... i think today i can't read all this backlog ..
Jun 29 16:26:58 <freemangordon> xes: no, check on ##maemo-admin
Jun 29 16:27:20 <xes> freemangordon: ok
Jun 29 16:29:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: the only sane way I know is to bandwagon some modern distro, devuan was chosen because of systemd
Jun 29 16:30:07 <freemangordon> and because it is debian derivative, the same what maemo is
Jun 29 16:31:28 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: in terms of FPTF - I am REing closed packages on as-needed basis - if FOSS package has a dependency on closed one, I RE it and it is included. NOTHING is stripped from the system so far
Jun 29 16:32:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the thing you want to do (port some few 'useful' things to another distro) it doesn't matter basically if there's systemd or if it's debian based. For such a project I had cosen sailfish as new upstream distro
Jun 29 16:33:29 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: wrong, I don't want to port "few useful" things, but the whole maemo, removing stuff like gnomevfs for example
Jun 29 16:33:57 <DocScrutinizer05> didn't know maemo had gnomevfs
Jun 29 16:34:05 <freemangordon> all over the place
Jun 29 16:36:24 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: where you have a couple of free minutes, look at https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2 to see the number of packages ported so far. And this is just the beginning, however I have hildon-desktop, hildon-status-menu and hildon-home FULLY FUNCTIONAL (sort of) in 64bit devuan
Jun 29 16:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> nice, but not relevant for me right now
Jun 29 16:37:11 <freemangordon> IOW - we have hildon stack ported to recent debian and more or less working
Jun 29 16:37:20 <freemangordon> that's another story
Jun 29 16:37:39 <bencoh> <3 for all the work done so far, by the way
Jun 29 16:38:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm worried about thermal management, power management, audio, connection handling, notifications etc pp
Jun 29 16:39:11 <freemangordon> I am worried as well, but first was hildon stack, without that running, nothing is possible
Jun 29 16:39:45 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm except notifications all I listed is unrelated to hildon
Jun 29 16:39:52 <freemangordon> this stuff will get ported when it comes to it. And it won;t be stripped, you have my word on that
Jun 29 16:40:18 <freemangordon> it is, as most of it works as hildon-status-menu plugins ;)
Jun 29 16:40:41 <freemangordon> connection-handling: https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/iphbd
Jun 29 16:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> you're talking GUI, I'm talking middleware and drivers
Jun 29 16:41:30 <freemangordon> iphbd is not gui
Jun 29 16:42:01 <freemangordon> clockd is not gui
Jun 29 16:42:08 <freemangordon> neither is alarmd
Jun 29 16:42:16 <DocScrutinizer05> and I seriously doubt you can come up with a middleware fitting under an existing GUI layer, once the latter is implemented
Jun 29 16:42:49 <freemangordon> I am not going to come-up with a middleware, but will reuse the one in fremantle
Jun 29 16:43:23 <freemangordon> well, some parts will have to be ported, for example to upoer the same way I ported to gio from gnomevfs
Jun 29 16:43:29 <freemangordon> *upower
Jun 29 16:44:11 <freemangordon> for network management I am still to decide, and I am not even sure I am the one that has to take that decision
Jun 29 16:44:12 <DocScrutinizer05> how is your GUI stuff working then when the middleware is not there. e.g. how would a mediaplayer do audio when there's no mafw it's supposed to use under true maemo? (maybe I should try harder to come up with better example but maybe you get my point nevertheless)
Jun 29 16:44:57 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: I got your point, thus https://github.com/community-ssu/libplayback, for example
Jun 29 16:45:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh nice
Jun 29 16:45:16 <freemangordon> stuff gets REed and ported when it comes to it
Jun 29 16:45:44 <freemangordon> or https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-bookmark-engine
Jun 29 16:45:47 <freemangordon> etc
Jun 29 16:46:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, I think I get your point too, probably your approach is evidently more feasible than I thought
Jun 29 16:46:46 <freemangordon> I am going to try to reuse as much as possible from stock maemo. If it is possible(and sane), it will be reused, if not - it will be replaced with upstream equivalents
Jun 29 16:47:03 <freemangordon> finally :)
Jun 29 16:47:14 <bencoh> \o/ :)
Jun 29 16:47:45 <bencoh> (I think this should be marked as a project milestone ;p)
Jun 29 16:47:56 <Wizzup> :D
Jun 29 16:51:41 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: actually I am trying to achieve FPTF goal, but from the opposite direction, without making maemo fall apart on every package I try to replace with upstream one
Jun 29 16:56:20 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, what I said, top-down vs bottom-up approach. I didn't realize how close you already are
Jun 29 16:57:25 <DocScrutinizer05> bottom-up has the immanent advantage to yield results in intermediate states, while top-down has to get pretty close to the final goal before you get useful results
Jun 29 16:58:34 <DocScrutinizer05> downside of my bottom-up: it's usually much slower
Jun 29 16:58:38 <freemangordon> well, not that close, lots of work to be done still. thus we want to setup a repo with what is done so far, make some PR noise in a hope more devs to join as this is not as task for one or two devs
Jun 29 16:58:53 <freemangordon> *a task
Jun 29 16:59:27 <freemangordon> that way I will be able to focus on REing while the others will do the porting of FOSS stuff
Jun 29 16:59:41 <freemangordon> sounds like a plan, right? :)
Jun 29 17:00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd like to help with that making-noise, on neo900.org
Jun 29 17:00:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, absilutely, sounds like a decent plan
Jun 29 17:00:20 <freemangordon> but first, we need repo running
Jun 29 17:00:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ack
Jun 29 17:00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> that been the reason why I offered to run a FPTF repo on neo900 before devuan even existed
Jun 29 17:01:32 <sunshavi> ~fptf
Jun 29 17:01:33 <infobot> hmm... fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
Jun 29 17:01:42 <sunshavi> ~reing
Jun 29 17:01:59 <freemangordon> having devuan guys helping us is great thing IMO
Jun 29 17:02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D 
Jun 29 17:02:26 <DocScrutinizer05> thought the same, that's why I pestered them over at #devuan
Jun 29 17:02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and pestered you to join there
Jun 29 17:02:55 <freemangordon> mhm, many thanks for that one
Jun 29 17:04:58 * DocScrutinizer05 recalls the shitsortm when neo900 newsletter mentioned that devuan is joining forces with maemo now, and sighs
Jun 29 17:05:49 <DocScrutinizer05> "what, you don't support debian anymore??? I'm not interested anymore in neo900!!"
Jun 29 17:06:17 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jun 29 22:05:01 <sicelo> interesting backscroll
Jun 29 22:54:29 <enyc> sicelo: indeed
Jun 29 23:07:02 <Vajb_> sicelo: any news with irssi perl support?
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