**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 23 03:00:01 2017
Aug 23 03:00:14 <brolin_empey> Why does the OS not automatically set the clock from the cellular network?  Even a wired telephone can set its clock from the network.
Aug 23 03:01:51 <stryngs> brolin_empey: Wasn't engineered that way =)
Aug 23 03:13:03 <Vajb> brolin_empey: mine does. Maybe you don't have that enabled?
Aug 23 03:17:35 <brolin_empey> Vajb: I do not remember.  The problem is solved for now because I manually set the clock on the Welcome/Setup screen after booting.
Aug 23 03:46:48 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: well, each time I ponder to fix the notification sounds of my android phone with a sledge hammer, I realize why I never wanted to get such a crap
Aug 23 03:47:47 <DocScrutinizer05> OF COURSE I want to hear a 90dB fanfare at 3am in the night when the shit thing completed download of whatever update
Aug 23 03:47:52 <DocScrutinizer05> >:-(
Aug 23 03:49:17 <DocScrutinizer05> when you try to find out which sound this might be and how to disable it, THAT is a pretty good example of abysmal user experience
Aug 23 03:50:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and just for a sidenote: N900 does set clock from cellular 
Aug 23 03:52:35 <DocScrutinizer05> just not in time for the date&time picker that shows up after removing main battery on a N900 with broken bupbat, since the modem takes too long to scan the channels and log in, and network then sending an actual time telegram
Aug 23 03:53:33 <DocScrutinizer05> that's a problem of your carrier's network config, not of N900
Aug 23 03:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, of course you also need to *enable* the automatic time setting
Aug 23 03:57:57 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I always use the silent profile on any phone because I try to avoid being a cellout.  Yes, cellout, not sellout.
Aug 23 03:58:30 <DocScrutinizer05> even my granma can use an adroid phone and pretend what she gets from it was exactly what she wanted. I however can't, I want control over my phone, not forcefed fastfood designed by google with no option to have other relish or even just a bit more salt
Aug 23 04:00:50 <DocScrutinizer05> don't get me started about "this android fart-app needs access to: location service, phone, messaging, contacts, media"
Aug 23 04:02:37 <stryngs> DocScrutinizer05: When is the Neo going to be born?
Aug 23 04:02:39 <stryngs> I want one =)
Aug 23 04:02:53 <stryngs> Worth every penny to me.
Aug 23 04:03:52 <DocScrutinizer05> stryngs: we're working on it. NFC circuit already layout done
Aug 23 04:04:13 <DocScrutinizer05> metacollin is great
Aug 23 04:04:42 <stryngs> If I was a richer man, I'd donate to the cause, but mark my words.  The day the thing is on the market, I'll be first in line. (Impulsivity to blame)
Aug 23 04:04:57 * stryngs carries an n900 at all times.
Aug 23 04:07:28 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a pity so mayn prospects don't know about the fact Neo900 gets built to order, there won't be any shelf stock on sale
Aug 23 04:07:39 <stryngs> Oh
Aug 23 04:07:53 <stryngs> This I didn't know.
Aug 23 04:08:08 <stryngs> neither does the site state it clearly =)  (Or, I didn't read, tl;dr and such...)
Aug 23 04:08:29 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I am not trying to sell you on the Android OS over Maemo.  Use what works best for you.  The fact is that I have a bad user experience with my Maemo 5 installation on my Nokia N900 and that I have a far better user experience with CyanogenMod 11 on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 with the exceptions that trying to use a touch screen to edit text is often an exercise in frustration, that my battery began bulging after over 2 years of use, and that 
Aug 23 04:08:29 <brolin_empey> the computer reboots if it is in my pants pocket when I kneel or squat or sit in a certain way.
Aug 23 04:08:30 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe we really lack to state that clearly
Aug 23 04:09:32 <stryngs> brolin_empey: The n900 is a unique experience.  If you want something you truly have control over, the n900 is where it's at afaik and understand.
Aug 23 04:09:44 <stryngs> You can do things with the n900 that you cannot do with any other piece of hw.
Aug 23 04:09:48 <stryngs> Period, point blank.
Aug 23 04:10:33 <stryngs> Imho, the n900 sucks as a phone.  Just my experience based on a new piece of gear (android/iphone) user experience wise.
Aug 23 04:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, in short: I can't get ssh server on my android phone since that needs rooting and rooting isn't possible on that thing
Aug 23 04:10:48 <stryngs> However, from a hacker perspective, NOTHING, nothing comes remotely close.
Aug 23 04:11:12 <stryngs> I'll take my n900 and whip any other phones ass from a pentest perspective.
Aug 23 04:11:52 <stryngs> With the Neo, I'm pretty sure that you can do things you can't do with other phones, regarding spy tools and such.  i.e.  turn on the mic without your permission because of some baseband stuff.
Aug 23 04:12:08 <stryngs> i.e.  When I go to airplane mode, I'm really in airplane mode, versus thinking im in airplane mode, etc..
Aug 23 04:12:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I think particularly as a phone the N900 works surprisingly well, what's not on par is browsing and navigation and the whole other bunch of "free apps" from google
Aug 23 04:12:29 <stryngs> As a phone, it works damn well +)
Aug 23 04:12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> though there's saera
Aug 23 04:12:43 <stryngs> Just the UI sucks.  But the n900 was never meant to be an iphone killer.
Aug 23 04:12:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Aug 23 04:12:58 * stryngs didn't buy his n900 for the UI.
Aug 23 04:13:14 <stryngs> It's a raspberry pi in my pocket with a builtin screen.
Aug 23 04:13:21 <stryngs> It just happens to make phonecalls.
Aug 23 04:13:41 <stryngs> Viva la n900.  May you reign forever
Aug 23 04:15:34 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if any droid app allows full backup of device to gome server (!NOT! google cloud) via wlan, unattended and by cronjob
Aug 23 04:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> home* server
Aug 23 04:16:57 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly not since that would need root, sshd on device, and user knowledge about ssh-keys
Aug 23 04:17:55 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I replaced the stock OS provided by Samsung with CyanogenMod because I want superuser access to the OS installation, which I could not have with the stock OS because Samsung actively tries to restrict the users of non-Nexus/Pixel models of computers running the Android OS.  You should use a Nexus/Pixel model of computer if you want an Android OS computer intended for advanced users/hackers/developers.
Aug 23 04:20:41 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: a truly good advice. Alas I was silly stupid and bought a device by specs/features: CAT6 with FLIR
Aug 23 04:21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> cat50, sorry
Aug 23 04:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> arghh 60
Aug 23 04:21:55 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.flir.com/cat/s60/
Aug 23 04:25:16 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.catphones.com/shop/cat-s60-smartphone/
Aug 23 04:26:41 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: If you install a recovery program such as Team Win Recovery Project (TWRP), which is what I used to replace the stock OS with CyanogenMod, you can save a complete backup of the flash memory fixed on the motherboard to an SD card or USB Mass Storage device.  You boot the recovery program instead of the Android OS.  The N900 has something similar that I installed years ago (backup menu?).
Aug 23 04:27:36 <DocScrutinizer05> needs CM or other rooting
Aug 23 04:29:26 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: No it does not.  You do not need superuser access to the OS to install a recovery program, at least not on the SM-N900W8 (variant of the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 for Canada).
Aug 23 04:29:30 <DocScrutinizer05> https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/cat-s60-snapdragon-617-rootable-t3433018 >>Is the CAT S60 (Snapdragon 617) Rootable?<< A: no
Aug 23 04:32:41 <DocScrutinizer05> zhough hey, seems some news since last time I checked (about 4 months ago)
Aug 23 06:43:16 <brolin_empey> Oksana: http://danbricklin.com/history/vcexecutable.htm ☺
Aug 23 06:50:35 <Oksana> brolin_empey : OS does automatically set the clock from the cellular network. Check Settings -> Date&Time. And I use Silent often, too - mostly because of "incoming message beep when listening to music player, despite message-beep switched off in Settings". I have already replacing boot-video with a no-audio file.
Aug 23 08:13:19 <brolin_empey> Oksana: “Update automatically” was disabled, do not know why.  I enabled it.
Aug 23 09:25:34 <sixwheeledbeast> People look at me weird when I say my 8 year old phone could do features they pay or use cloud services for. The difference is your paying for all the defined pretty packaging up. 
Aug 23 09:26:40 <sixwheeledbeast> Also OMP has option to Prevent playback interuptions.
Aug 23 10:08:50 <bencoh> sixwheeledbeast: are you referring to "gapless" playback?
Aug 23 10:09:25 <sixwheeledbeast> no message interuptions
Aug 23 11:28:37 <KotCzarny> hrm, nokia n9 screen unlock is weird, cant trigger it
Aug 23 11:30:23 <KotCzarny> and there is no 'show desktop' icon
Aug 23 11:30:47 <KotCzarny> whoever designed the ui, made it not intuitive :/
Aug 23 11:36:19 <bencoh> it's thought to be highly intuitive though
Aug 23 11:36:25 <bencoh> hint: gestures
Aug 23 11:36:53 <KotCzarny> not intuitive for a new user
Aug 23 11:37:07 <KotCzarny> and no 'welcome, quick hints' screen
Aug 23 11:37:25 <KotCzarny> so once the screen gets locked by idle, i can only tap and swipe till it unlocks
Aug 23 11:37:46 <KotCzarny> still not found what is the required magic wave ;)
Aug 23 11:38:11 <KotCzarny> umkay, got it
Aug 23 11:38:11 <Maxdamantus> I think it's basically the same sort of gesture as is used for doing other things.
Aug 23 11:38:15 <KotCzarny> i hae to grab the edge
Aug 23 11:38:21 <KotCzarny> not intuitive
Aug 23 11:38:23 <Maxdamantus> switching between views, closing applications.
Aug 23 11:38:35 <Maxdamantus> You always swipe from the edge.
Aug 23 11:38:44 <KotCzarny> i'm used to just being able to grab anywhere on the screen (maemo, android)
Aug 23 11:38:58 <KotCzarny> btw. how to close apps?
Aug 23 11:39:11 <Maxdamantus> swipe down iirc
Aug 23 11:39:17 <Maxdamantus> (from the edge)
Aug 23 11:39:33 <Maxdamantus> or maybe it's up, dunno.
Aug 23 11:40:05 <Maxdamantus> can instead keep swiping sideways until you find the view that shows all applicatis
Aug 23 11:40:11 <KotCzarny> ok, how to close app?
Aug 23 11:40:19 <KotCzarny> not just switch to another
Aug 23 11:40:38 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, that's what I meant. It's either swiping up or down.
Aug 23 11:40:49 <Maxdamantus> Switching to other views is swiping sideways.
Aug 23 11:41:16 <KotCzarny> right. worked now
Aug 23 11:41:29 <KotCzarny> still, having a classic 'x' wouldnt hurt
Aug 23 11:41:44 <KotCzarny> screen is not slick enough for comfortable swiped
Aug 23 11:41:47 <KotCzarny> *swipes
Aug 23 11:41:59 <Maxdamantus> You can get that in the view that shows all running applications (keep swiping sideways until you see it)
Aug 23 11:42:29 <KotCzarny> and i miss the desktop
Aug 23 11:45:57 <KotCzarny> ;)
Aug 23 12:01:05 <sicelo> welcome to N9 KotCzarny :-)
Aug 23 12:10:51 <sicelo> i was looking at maebble the other day and noticed the dev made oscp-specific options available in it 
Aug 23 12:45:07 <sicelo>   i am looking for a link to the latest thumb version of fennec 
Aug 23 12:56:25 <KotCzarny> sicelo: humm? what is maebble?
Aug 23 12:58:57 <KotCzarny> as for n9, just charged it and getting first looks
Aug 23 12:59:14 <KotCzarny> love the osk and screen accuracy 
Aug 23 13:06:07 <sicelo> maebble is an application for the pebble smartwatch
Aug 23 13:07:01 <sicelo> s/an/an N900/
Aug 23 13:07:03 <infobot> sicelo meant: maebble is an N900 application for the pebble smartwatch
Aug 23 13:07:49 <KotCzarny> done by proprog, i think he liked oscp quite early, probably that's why added support for it (and probably because trivial to create a remote client)
Aug 23 13:07:56 <KotCzarny> thanks for the tip
Aug 23 13:08:40 <sicelo> yw
Aug 23 13:09:11 <sicelo> did you support Harmattan before?
Aug 23 13:09:29 <KotCzarny> looked at it, but it's quite different from normal linux ecosystem
Aug 23 13:10:05 <sicelo> maybe now you have an N9 you can support it 
Aug 23 13:10:17 <KotCzarny> will look, no promises though
Aug 23 13:10:32 <KotCzarny> i have tried using sailfish sdk before, not very successfully
Aug 23 13:11:21 <sunshavi> KotCzarny: I have an N9 almost vanilla. GPS works better there than on n900. Aegis is a problem (You could not play other formats with the default media player). Camera is very nice. multitask view better on n9. Closing apps easier on n9. The fm radio app is very nice. Are You going to port oscp there?. I have not try  compiling anything there yet. 
Aug 23 13:11:56 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: if i get around, will look at it
Aug 23 13:12:11 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: but since i have some other project going at the moment can't say when
Aug 23 13:12:30 <sunshavi> kotczarny: there is a link for removing aegis. 
Aug 23 13:13:35 <KotCzarny> sunshavi: if i want to have oscp ported, i should use vanilla device
Aug 23 13:13:53 <sunshavi> kotczarny: sure. I did not like integrated battery on n9. Just try not to use it alot, just a a camera.
Aug 23 13:14:02 <KotCzarny> lol
Aug 23 13:14:16 <KotCzarny> yeah, it arrived with battery empty
Aug 23 13:14:24 <KotCzarny> i hope it didnt damage it too much
Aug 23 13:15:31 <sunshavi> kotczarny: n900 camera is very bad. In 2017 is one of the things bother me more. Taking a picture is not an easy task
Aug 23 13:15:51 <sicelo> there's a health meter in Settings
Aug 23 13:15:55 <KotCzarny> sunshavi, never noticed, just open the shutter and click, cant get easier
Aug 23 13:16:15 <KotCzarny> sicelo: it will only update after few cycles i guess
Aug 23 13:16:44 <sunshavi> kotczarny: battery also came empty here almost 4 years ago. I did not like microsim also
Aug 23 13:17:12 <KotCzarny> as for image quality, from the few pics i took today it's not much better than n900
Aug 23 13:17:28 <mike727> Whenever I've flashed N9, it comes up with a UI tutorial
Aug 23 13:17:45 <sunshavi> well taking a pic takes several seconds. segfaults from time to time. picture quality also not good, especially when taking near objects
Aug 23 13:18:03 <KotCzarny> never had a camera die on my n900
Aug 23 13:18:06 <sicelo> sunshavi: segafaults? N900? weird.
Aug 23 13:18:10 <sicelo> -a
Aug 23 13:18:28 <KotCzarny> mike727: didnt flash it yet, probably previous person just did factory reset
Aug 23 13:18:32 <sunshavi> sicelo: sorry segfaults camera app on n900 (my fault)
Aug 23 13:18:55 <sicelo> yes i meant the camera app .. that's weird.
Aug 23 13:19:19 <KotCzarny> i would bet on some software installed to be the cause
Aug 23 13:19:21 <sunshavi> sicelo: not talking about taking a second pic.
Aug 23 13:19:43 <mike727> Harmattan 1.3 will close apps when swiping top->down. On open applications view, touch & hold will make X (close) appear
Aug 23 13:20:15 <KotCzarny> will flash to 1.3 probably
Aug 23 13:20:26 <KotCzarny> still on 1.2
Aug 23 13:21:02 <mike727> DON'T ever flash using 003
Aug 23 13:21:14 <KotCzarny> 003 ?
Aug 23 13:21:15 <sicelo> of course N9 doesn't match N9 hardware-wise
Aug 23 13:21:27 <sicelo> N900
Aug 23 13:21:51 <mike727> Chinese firmware, will take CMT hostage
Aug 23 13:21:56 <KotCzarny> lol
Aug 23 13:22:13 <mike727> Won't allow you to flash anything different on it
Aug 23 13:24:12 <mike727> I think someone managed a workaround, but the method was dodgey
Aug 23 13:28:02 <sicelo> re-fennec: it's in repos. i should have checked there first
Aug 23 13:32:23 <bencoh> sicelo: apart for amoled and cpu/ram
Aug 23 13:32:38 <bencoh> from*
Aug 23 13:33:11 <sicelo> & cam
Aug 23 13:34:07 <sicelo> but yes, i'd buy another N900 instead of an N9 :)
Aug 23 14:09:46 <sicelo> what's the 'problem' with SFOS?
Aug 23 14:10:16 <KotCzarny> if you ask me? i wasnt able to get through initial steps of sdk install
Aug 23 14:10:49 <KotCzarny> and the os itself seems to rely heavily on qt and system libs, and restricting user from doing things
Aug 23 14:17:33 <sicelo> worse than fremantle sdk? (genuine question .. never played with anything SFOS)
Aug 23 14:18:01 <KotCzarny> dont know, wasnt able to get-in
Aug 23 14:18:13 <KotCzarny> will retry in the nearest months
Aug 23 14:38:01 <sicelo> how is browsing experience on N9 nowadays?
Aug 23 16:06:44 <brolin_empey> Oksana: EtherCalc seems to be only for spreadsheets, not textual documents.  I want to create a textual document that contains an embedded spreadsheet (a smart table) instead of a plain table (a dumb table).  Both Google Docs and the Web version of Microsoft Word (“WebWord”) allow to have a plain table in a textual document but a plain table is dumb because it cannot even sum numbers in cells, which is something that all spreadsheet programs can do.
Aug 23 16:12:02 <brolin_empey> Office suites such as LibreOffice and Microsoft Office for desktop operating systems can do what I want but I have not yet found a real-time collaborative Web-based document preparation system (“word processor”) that has this ability.  More generally, I have not found any Web-based document preparation system that has this ability.
Aug 23 16:23:32 <sicelo> Office 365 can't? what about LibreOffice's cloud offering? (never tried it myself, but i know they have something of that sort since a while ago)
Aug 23 16:27:08 <xy2_> brolin_empey: piratepad?
Aug 23 17:27:47 <brolin_empey> Trying to use a general Web search engine to find information about Word Online, currently the official name of the Web version of Microsoft Word, returns lots of noise about Microsoft Word for Windows (WinWord), probably similar to trying to find information about Microsoft Word for DOS.
Aug 23 17:33:02 <brolin_empey> sicelo: I do not have a paid subscription to Microsoft software but the Word Online that I can use with OneDrive without a paid subscription appears to lack the ability to insert a spreadsheet.  I do not know what Word Online does if a compound document containing an embedded spreadsheet is imported.  I do not have Microsoft Office installed on my own computers but I have access to computers with Microsoft Office installed.
Aug 23 17:36:14 <brolin_empey> Well, I installed the Microsoft Office applications for the Android OS on my handheld computer but I do not use them and I was talking about Microsoft Office for desktop platforms.
Aug 23 17:37:52 <brolin_empey> sicelo: I did not know there is a Web version of LibreOffice.  Link?
Aug 23 17:38:45 <brolin_empey> xy2_: I do not know about piratepad, will have to research it.
Aug 23 17:47:37 <brolin_empey> xy2_: I do not see anything that suggests that piratepad can embed a spreadsheet.
Aug 23 20:18:46 <Wikiwide> Does mp-fremantle-community-pr depend on as-daemon-0 ? Because it seems that I accidentally uninstalled as-daemon while trying to free up rootfs, and no red flags were raised. And then I was wondering why ActiveSync stopped working...
Aug 23 20:20:18 <KotCzarny> :>
Aug 23 20:20:45 <KotCzarny> my rootfs has 65M free
Aug 23 20:21:17 <Wikiwide> Similar, now. Used to have less than that free. Like, 97% full.
Aug 23 20:27:16 <Wikiwide> Brr... Instructions say 993, wizard says 443 by default, wizard doesn't go further with 993, sync works with 443.
Aug 23 20:27:38 <KotCzarny> siftware changes
Aug 23 20:27:58 <sicelo> AS is nearly always 443
Aug 23 20:28:54 <sicelo> brolin_empey: i am not sure of link now .. and being on N900 isn't helping. but, there should be reference in LibreOffice website
Aug 23 20:29:06 <sicelo> unless i read fake news :-/
Aug 23 20:29:13 <Wikiwide> Brr... I might be reading  in the wrong place. IMAP...
Aug 23 20:29:26 <sicelo> yeah :-)
Aug 23 20:30:36 <Wikiwide> Anyway, I ask ActiveSync to sync calendar and contacts, and leave email part to IMAP, because of this as-removal-confusion.
Aug 23 20:31:04 <sicelo> AS uses 443 because it runs of Microsoft IIS .. webserver
Aug 23 20:31:30 <sicelo> *off 
Aug 23 20:36:54 <brolin_empey> sicelo: OK, I will check later, am at work now.  Were you reading news on April 1? ;-)
Aug 23 20:38:19 <Wikiwide> And don't forget as-config-applet
Aug 23 23:11:14 <brolin_empey> In Excel 2010 for Windows Desktop, the Insert → Table ribbbon/menu has an entry named “Excel spreadsheet” that is used to embed a spreadsheet in a textual document, producing a compound document.  Word Online has no such entry in the Insert → Table ribbon/menu, which probably indicates that Word Online still lacks this feature/ability.  I created a simple compound document by using Word 2010 for Windows Desktop to embed a simple spreadsheet, will try
Aug 23 23:11:14 <brolin_empey>  to import this document (.docx file) to OneDrive/Office Online to see how Word Online handles the embedded spreadsheet.
Aug 23 23:18:37 <brolin_empey> Tried it.  Nothing mentioned the unsupported feature used by the imported document but the embedded spreadsheet seems to be an unmodifiable image that cannot even be resized in Word Online. ☹
Aug 24 01:26:36 <sunshavi> Hi guys. Any idea what is the size of the stack on runtime on the n900?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 24 03:00:00 2017