**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 29 03:00:01 2017
Sep 29 05:47:22 <vahe[m]> hi maemo i need ,  maemo_flasher
Sep 29 05:47:49 <vahe[m]> if there is one for Linux please give
Sep 29 05:50:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~tell vahe[m] about lazyflashing
Sep 29 05:50:44 <vahe[m]> lazyflashing?
Sep 29 05:51:19 <vahe[m]> DocScrutinizer05 , thanks for the reply, what is it?
Sep 29 05:51:58 <DocScrutinizer05> all you need
Sep 29 05:52:44 <DocScrutinizer05> did you notice PM of bot?
Sep 29 05:52:54 <vahe[m]> DocScrutinizer05 , this super can give me a link to info for download, I would be grateful
Sep 29 05:53:03 <vahe[m]> I couldn't find
Sep 29 05:53:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Sep 29 05:53:11 <infobot> [lazyflashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Sep 29 05:53:20 <vahe[m]> ah yes 
Sep 29 05:53:35 <vahe[m]> may accaunt matrix, not irc
Sep 29 05:55:05 <vahe[m]> aha very thanks man DocScrutinizer
Sep 29 07:15:04 <kann> ~help
Sep 29 10:34:33 <vahe[m]> DocScrutinizer05 I have a strange situation , I did re-flash but all time writes that many open programs
Sep 29 10:34:54 <vahe[m]> maybe firmware is not the same?
Sep 29 11:03:58 <DocScrutinizer05> export LANG=C, then pastebin the errormessage and previous commands
Sep 29 11:05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on maemo, "LANG=EN_gb"  iirc
Sep 29 11:05:47 <sicelo> mine's eu_US
Sep 29 11:06:07 <sicelo> err .. en_US
Sep 29 11:07:20 <DocScrutinizer05> then that
Sep 29 11:08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, 
Sep 29 11:09:51 <DocScrutinizer05> for me LANG=EN_gb works
Sep 29 11:10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> LANG=en_GB and LANG=en_US don't work
Sep 29 14:01:47 <DocScrutinizer05> weird shit, everything random like LANG=sg_XY df|head -n1 results in english headline. while LANG=en_US df|head -n1 results in GERMAN headline
Sep 29 14:05:58 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly W*T*F?!  http://paste.opensuse.org/42160490
Sep 29 14:07:23 <DocScrutinizer05> sth it *terribly* broken there
Sep 29 14:07:51 <Langoor> hmm i've been playing a little with my sad n900
Sep 29 14:08:08 <Langoor> sorry for asking again, but are there mirrors of the (now down) nokia repo's
Sep 29 14:08:47 <Langoor> NVM found them :^)
Sep 29 14:09:41 <DocScrutinizer05> gawd
Sep 29 14:09:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lazyflashing
Sep 29 14:09:52 <infobot> lazyflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Sep 29 14:11:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/11957094  
Sep 29 14:12:05 * DocScrutinizer05 scratches head
Sep 29 14:16:06 <blap> is n900 armv7l ?
Sep 29 14:16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 29 14:16:31 <blap> could a smart person make sdl maemo apps run on sfos without recompiling?
Sep 29 14:16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure about the trailing l
Sep 29 14:16:59 <blap> or openpandora
Sep 29 14:17:11 <blap> apps
Sep 29 14:23:17 <KotCzarny> secure.paypal.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate expired on September 29, 2017, 2:00 PM. The current time is September 29, 2017, 4:23 PM
Sep 29 14:23:18 <KotCzarny> hehe
Sep 29 14:24:04 <blap> >_<
Sep 29 14:26:18 <blap> do you intend to open-source oscp someday KotCzarny ?
Sep 29 14:26:29 <KotCzarny> yup
Sep 29 14:26:43 <KotCzarny> once i clean it up and find the time to upload it to github
Sep 29 14:27:17 <blap> i made a useful gimp plugin that i can't really publish because too embarassing
Sep 29 14:27:50 <blap> so i understand
Sep 29 14:27:55 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 29 14:28:07 <KotCzarny> also, there is already source available with the arch package
Sep 29 14:28:52 <blap> you should get a droid 4 with sailfish!
Sep 29 14:29:04 <KotCzarny> somehow qt scares me
Sep 29 14:29:10 <KotCzarny> gtk is nice and cosy
Sep 29 14:29:12 <blap> has terminal
Sep 29 14:29:14 <KotCzarny> *cozy
Sep 29 14:29:32 <blap> i don't know any qt
Sep 29 14:30:06 <blap> an oscp that has a clickable app icon that opens a terminal would be fine
Sep 29 14:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> WUT??
Sep 29 14:30:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and maybe a swimming pool?
Sep 29 14:30:32 <KotCzarny> well, you can run the binary from maemo then
Sep 29 14:30:42 <KotCzarny> unless you need alsa build
Sep 29 14:30:50 <KotCzarny> but i think sailfish uses pulse?
Sep 29 14:31:29 <Langoor> isn't the sailfish ui propietary? 
Sep 29 14:31:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 29 14:31:41 <Langoor> sad
Sep 29 14:32:07 <Langoor> I'll also have a droid 4 soon
Sep 29 14:32:10 <Langoor> :x
Sep 29 14:32:27 <blap> is no problem to make sfos apps
Sep 29 14:32:53 <DocScrutinizer05> it's no problem to make iOS apps
Sep 29 14:33:26 <blap> so is no problem
Sep 29 14:33:33 <DocScrutinizer05> a phone OS where it's a problem to make apps is still born
Sep 29 14:33:50 <blap> wait, what is the problem to make apps using sfos ui
Sep 29 14:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> blap: I guess the take of most maemo users on FOSS is different
Sep 29 14:36:19 <DocScrutinizer05> and sailfish not only has proprietary roof but also usually has blob basement called Android RIL
Sep 29 14:36:35 <blap> oh
Sep 29 14:37:18 <blap> https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Cellular_Telephony_Architecture
Sep 29 14:38:14 <blap> so this is driven by their goal of running on multiple phone platforms, unlike nokia which could make their own HAL?
Sep 29 14:41:21 <blap> "
Sep 29 14:41:23 <blap> There is no standard for the HAL modem software interface implement and a proprietary command set is typically needed to use the full functionality of the modem. "
Sep 29 14:44:26 <DocScrutinizer05> that's true but no excuse
Sep 29 14:44:30 <blap> On Pyra, WizardStan writes: "The radio is just a TTY and USB audio device. Send AT commands to the TTY to start a call (or get data, or whatever) an open the microphone/speaker on the audio device to send and receive audio"
Sep 29 14:44:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and that IS a standard
Sep 29 14:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> 3GPP
Sep 29 14:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and it's exactly what Neo900 uses too
Sep 29 14:45:49 <blap> so talking to the usb device bypasses android blob?
Sep 29 14:46:02 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Sep 29 14:46:16 <DocScrutinizer05> android hardware has no USB
Sep 29 14:46:23 <blap> oh
Sep 29 14:46:26 <DocScrutinizer05> regularly
Sep 29 14:46:35 <blap> rather to tty 
Sep 29 14:47:07 <blap> would it be easy to bypass the blob to make ofono talk to the radio?
Sep 29 14:47:14 <DocScrutinizer05> that is incorrect: Pyra has a USB-tty for AT commands and a normal PCM audio
Sep 29 14:50:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/talk.pdf#15 (p.16: RIL) to p.23 (Neo900 unique)
Sep 29 14:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> pyra looks like p.17
Sep 29 14:51:14 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe p.21
Sep 29 14:52:14 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm
Sep 29 14:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so the answer to your question is: no, RIL is a mandatory part of modem firmware stack and there's no way to bypass it
Sep 29 14:54:41 <blap> ok
Sep 29 14:56:17 <DocScrutinizer05> on sailfish phone the "RIL" and modem firmware is the Dom0 aka virtualization host and all "linux" basically runs in a VM under it
Sep 29 14:58:10 <blap> this is new to me.  why is that so?
Sep 29 14:58:32 <DocScrutinizer05> which is the reason why Saifish incmustn't even publish firmware images so users could unbrick/recover their phones - the Inc isn't holding any rights in the "RIL" and modem stack and thus can't offer the image to general public
Sep 29 14:59:28 <DocScrutinizer05> this is so because modem firmware and linux share CPU and RAM
Sep 29 15:00:04 <blap> i would prefer a standard spec'd at-command set and no shared memory
Sep 29 15:00:41 <blap> my old US robotics external modem didn't have access to my system either
Sep 29 15:00:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and since you legally mustn't allow linux to have control over internals of modem, it's modem that has to be master over linux since on this hw architecture you can't separate them sufficiently so none would be master of the other. One *jas* to be master and that's modem by legal requirements
Sep 29 15:01:18 <blap> that is depressing
Sep 29 15:01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> s/jas/has
Sep 29 15:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> result: http://neo900.org/news/about-the-asn1-vulnerability
Sep 29 15:05:46 <blap> ah
Sep 29 15:08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> for cost and size optimization rationale, (almost) all recent smartphones integrate modem and Application Processor Environment into one SoC that shares CPUs and RAM
Sep 29 15:09:24 <blap> it's not plausible to me that phone mfgrs design such bad security by accident
Sep 29 15:10:09 <DocScrutinizer05> downside of this is that you can't do anything about ASN.1 bug and similar attack vectors, due to the mere hw architecture
Sep 29 15:13:06 <blap> thank you for sharing your knowledge
Sep 29 15:13:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you're very welcome
Sep 29 15:37:45 <DocScrutinizer05> faintly on topic: http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2017/09/over-air-vol-2-pt-1-exploiting-wi-fi.html
Sep 29 15:38:15 <DocScrutinizer05> it's the sequel to the broadcom exploit of a few weeks ago
Sep 29 15:39:10 <DocScrutinizer05> https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.de/2017/04/over-air-exploiting-broadcoms-wi-fi_11.html this one
Sep 29 15:40:33 <DocScrutinizer05> then we also had https://www.armis.com/blueborne/ - interesting times indeed
Sep 29 15:42:08 <blap> i saw an offline laptop get windows updates in 2012
Sep 29 17:37:35 <NeKit> <DocScrutinizer05> on sailfish phone the "RIL" and modem firmware is the Dom0 aka virtualization host and all "linux" basically runs in a VM under it
Sep 29 17:38:14 <NeKit> I'm not sure about what kind of control modem has on OS/device, but RIL itself is not virtualized
Sep 29 17:38:37 <NeKit> it's a daemon talking to modem
Sep 29 22:36:35 * Maxdamantus wonders if the lock switch thing can be removed/replaced from the case.
Sep 29 22:50:40 <blap> or glue it
Sep 29 22:55:10 * Maxdamantus just wants to add some epoxy to it to make it easier to slide.
Sep 29 22:56:25 <Maxdamantus> Could just do it without taking it out I guess.
Sep 29 23:02:25 <Wizzup> that's kind of funny out of context
Sep 30 01:31:23 <DocScrutinizer05> netkat: that's why I put it in quotes. the "linux" (actually Android) RIL is one halve of an interface system that in the usual case corresponds to another part in secure world aka Dom0 aka the modem firmware. Together they share RAM and CPU. That's the generic picture, particular implementations differ, depending on manufacturer and hw platform
Sep 30 02:33:46 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I guess some people don't mind. really look at rasPi where the GFX core and a blob boots the linux kernel aiui
Sep 30 02:36:27 <DocScrutinizer05> then rasPi isn't a complete stealth OS above/beside the linux OS. This is only the case with WWAN modem, and you have to be aware that all modern smartphones have both OS (linux and the ohantom modem OS) share RAM and CPUs
Sep 30 02:38:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and because of all sorts of technical and particularly regulatory reasons, the linux must not mess with the modem OS but the modem OS may mess with your linux and there's nothing you can do about it
Sep 30 02:40:55 <DocScrutinizer05> all approaches to make a secure software for those hw platforms are futile, unless somebody would actually audit the complete modem OS. And then this audit would just reveal that the modem OS not only has a zillion of exploitable vulnerabilities but also regularly a OTA update feature that voids _all_ audit/validation since manufacturer can update to a rogue OS version any time without user noticing
Sep 30 02:43:09 <DocScrutinizer05> bottom line: you're never in cntrol of what's going on on your smartphone, unless you use a hw platform that separates modem and APE
Sep 30 02:44:13 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter is an expensive approach since it needs two chipsets
Sep 30 02:54:56 <LjL> well thank you now i'm more depressed than i was a momnent ago
Sep 30 02:56:11 <LjL> i hope the Librem 5 delivers what they promise, but i don't really have the money for one of those
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 30 03:00:01 2017