**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 13 03:00:03 2017 Oct 13 03:53:44 undead \o/ Oct 13 04:55:02 jonwil: yeah, they are unkillable ;) Oct 13 04:55:10 as long there is power Oct 13 04:56:17 Yeah it seems like the only way to truly destroy a N900 is a hardware failure (e,g. totally broken USB, modem chip failure, whatever) or to get into a position where you have no battery juice and no way to charge the battery Oct 13 04:56:28 Its the second situation I seem to find myself in right now Oct 13 04:57:24 Need to find a way to get juice into one or more of the 3 batteries I have without spending a fortune or waiting weeks for something to arrive. Oct 13 04:59:23 So far the only option I have seen is to buy some random charger or phone from someone that either wants a fortune for it, is shipping it on a slow boat out of China or both,. Oct 13 04:59:30 Which doesn't help me :P Oct 13 05:01:18 are you good with manual skills? Oct 13 05:05:50 also, can you still return your replacement phone and get one that fits bl-5j? Oct 13 05:09:41 There are no phones sold in my area that take BL-5J Oct 13 05:09:50 darn. Oct 13 05:09:53 At least none that aren't super expensive and not worth buying Oct 13 05:10:05 asha 500 ? Oct 13 05:10:05 when I looked I didn't see anything branded Nokia at all Oct 13 05:10:10 ahm Oct 13 05:10:12 Either in the low or high end of the selection Oct 13 05:10:30 Plenty of iPhones and Galaxies at very high prices Oct 13 05:10:45 yeah, best profit on them Oct 13 05:10:46 and a few from HTC and Sony and things Oct 13 05:11:02 and then at the low end the usual low-end Android stuff (like the one I bought) Oct 13 05:11:16 anyway, are you good with manual skills? Oct 13 05:11:39 I have no skills or tools for soldering or that sort of work Oct 13 05:11:41 So that doesn't help Oct 13 05:11:48 no no, not that advanced Oct 13 05:11:58 what then? Oct 13 05:12:08 i was just thinking about making some wire extension from your new phone to bl-5j Oct 13 05:12:48 but i would have to be stable enough not to create a short Oct 13 05:12:57 *it Oct 13 05:13:00 I dont think that would worh Oct 13 05:13:02 work Oct 13 05:13:06 i do Oct 13 05:13:14 li-ion is a li-ion Oct 13 05:13:39 Except when the battery is built into the phone and cant be removed Oct 13 05:13:43 lol Oct 13 05:13:57 your cheapo phone has nonremovable battery? Oct 13 05:14:10 that sucks Oct 13 05:14:18 Everyone is doing it for everything because its cheaper than removable battery :P Oct 13 05:14:29 but its just wrong Oct 13 05:14:35 for plenty of reasons Oct 13 05:14:37 :/ Oct 13 05:15:01 The market cares more about getting greater battery life for less money than about removable or replacible batteries Oct 13 05:15:18 then market should be educated Oct 13 05:15:49 anyway, look for any device that can charge li-ion Oct 13 05:16:18 for example some dev boards with allwinner chips have li-ion support Oct 13 05:16:55 I haven't a clue where I would get a dev board in Australia either Oct 13 05:18:05 Maybe laptops with removable batteries but A.Those are super-expensive and B.The battery compartments on those are such that I would never get any kind of access to the contacts. Oct 13 05:18:32 I have no devices in my house with that kind of lithium-ion batteries except my N900 Oct 13 05:18:49 My camera takes AAs Oct 13 05:20:17 nah, laptops usually use higher voltage Oct 13 05:20:29 got a power bank? Oct 13 05:20:42 the cheapo kind that takes single 18650 battery Oct 13 05:21:09 laptop batterypacks are just 18650 batteries joined together Oct 13 05:21:16 break em open, pull em out ;) Oct 13 05:21:27 buzz, yes, but what i meant they arent suitable for charging single cell Oct 13 05:21:30 unless you have a fruitcomputer, then you're fucked Oct 13 05:21:33 KotCzarny: they totally are Oct 13 05:21:42 once you seperate them Oct 13 05:24:41 I dont have a power bank or anything like that either Oct 13 05:25:41 The only lithium-ion batteries I have are the one in my new phone that is no help and the 3 dead BL-5Js Oct 13 05:36:20 jonwil, maybe someone in your family has older, normal phone? Oct 13 05:44:50 Nope, dont think so. Oct 13 05:45:06 weird land Oct 13 05:45:35 they probably dont have it because they dont keep old gear around :) Oct 13 05:47:42 i would imagine you guys hoarding stuff because of scarcity Oct 13 06:04:33 jonwil, you may try looking for those http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Nokia_BL-5J_battery#Compatibility Oct 13 06:04:54 maybe post some ad Oct 13 06:07:04 Already looked for those Oct 13 06:10:26 i got some bl-5j clones from ebay Oct 13 06:10:33 the polarcell is the best though Oct 13 06:11:41 well, he has 3 batteries, and unable to charge them ;) Oct 13 06:13:14 oh eh Oct 13 06:13:47 connect https://www.banggood.com/Mini-1A-Lithium-Battery-Charging-Board-Charger-Module-USB-Interface-p-89732.html with a couple wires Oct 13 06:14:12 hook it to usb, wait maybe 30 minutes, then rescueos charge it Oct 13 06:14:23 his usb is also broken Oct 13 06:14:38 then just fully charge with this device connected to battery :P Oct 13 06:14:44 maybe not while its inside n900 Oct 13 06:16:20 I dont know for sure that my USB is broken Oct 13 06:16:39 That item doesn't help though because waiting for crap to come from china on a slow boat is useless to me Oct 13 06:17:09 if you order today, it should arrive eventually Oct 13 06:17:17 and having some tools is always useful Oct 13 06:18:07 But that wont help me with my immediate need to get a full BL-5J somehow Oct 13 06:18:30 yes, that's why you can order, and keep searching for immediate solutions too Oct 13 06:18:52 having universal li-ion charger in the house could save you later Oct 13 06:22:42 At this point I dont want to spend any money I don't need to Oct 13 06:34:39 jonwil: you can pay loads extras for superfast shipping ^_^ Oct 13 06:35:02 maybe you have a toy quadcopter? or other RC vehicle Oct 13 06:35:17 those often use 1 cell, and very dumb chargers that'll just work fine Oct 13 06:38:11 powerbanks are cheaper Oct 13 06:38:21 especially those tiny 1-cell ones Oct 13 06:40:01 just thinking what jonwil might have around Oct 13 06:40:09 sand Oct 13 06:40:12 :) Oct 13 06:40:33 and killer nature Oct 13 06:43:33 meh, all my 3.5-3.5mm audio cables are shit :P Oct 13 06:43:42 just finished https://imgur.com/a/jk50e Oct 13 07:33:11 Nokia 5800 XpressMusic uses the same battery as the N900 Oct 13 07:34:11 No I dont have any drones Oct 13 07:34:13 or powerbanks Oct 13 07:35:52 Other than the new cheap phone and the N900, everything I have that takes batteries only takes regular batteries, not rechargeables or Li-Ion Oct 13 07:36:07 I have nothing that can charge a Li-Ion except the non-working N900 Oct 13 07:36:16 you need new friends Oct 13 07:36:29 that have phones with batteries Oct 13 07:36:31 :) Oct 13 07:37:36 I am investigating options to get hold of something that can charge the batteries I have Oct 13 07:41:46 I did some searches and one store that has outlets in my town has something called a "Universal Li-ion/Ni-Cd/Ni-MH Battery Charger" Oct 13 07:42:10 It says "• Suitable for: 1 x 3.6V or 7.2V Li-ion battery packs" Oct 13 07:42:32 The bl-5J is 3.7v though Oct 13 07:42:50 Anyhow, this store is somewhere I wouldn't have thought of looking Oct 13 07:44:39 jonwil: should work though! if only just to charge ~10% , and then you can finalize charge on n900 Oct 13 07:44:42 if usb works Oct 13 07:45:24 I will visit this chain and maybe other places as well with my BL-5J batteries and ask if they have anything external that is capable of charging them Oct 13 07:45:35 They may have other products that can do it Oct 13 07:45:54 Or maybe they will suggest this one as being suitable Oct 13 07:46:00 Either way I will see what I can find Oct 13 07:46:03 yeah i did see some external bl-5j chargers Oct 13 07:46:08 and also universal ones Oct 13 07:46:26 jonwil, li-ion and li-poly charge similarly Oct 13 07:46:41 there are tiny differences Oct 13 07:47:16 but should be safe to get 80-90% of the charge into battery Oct 13 07:51:40 or you just connect a USB PSU that doesn't provide more than 1000mA, for a max 30 min, while checking the battery temperature Oct 13 07:56:19 I will look into that charger since if it works for BL-5J it will mean I have a safe long-term-usable external charger for the things which will be good. Oct 13 07:58:20 \o/ Oct 13 07:58:28 more toys is more fun anway Oct 13 07:59:09 I also posted on an Aussie forum full of electronics geeks that I follow in case they have any leads Oct 13 08:00:12 Worst that can happen is I get no response on there and I move on :) Oct 13 08:00:15 maybe you're near to one of these? https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Australia Oct 13 08:00:37 There is one in Brisbane but its very far away from me Oct 13 08:00:55 yeah you guys are just a bit to unpopulated :P Oct 13 08:01:01 breed faster! Oct 13 08:01:07 ^_^ Oct 13 08:01:30 higher population density gets you more of these closer to you Oct 13 08:01:31 Brisbane is very populated, we just dont have cheap real estate to set up such things as hackerspaces Oct 13 08:01:53 hmhm, well once you have enough ppl, rent doesnt matter a lot any more Oct 13 08:02:19 here you can rent a office 'anti-squat' for ~250 euro , i guess ~350 aud a month Oct 13 08:02:30 378.25 , i was close :P Oct 13 08:03:12 oh, charging li-ion with 5v? not a bright idea Oct 13 08:03:31 Definitely not Oct 13 08:03:42 it wont prolong its lifetime :P Oct 13 08:03:43 Not when it says 3.7v on the battery itself Oct 13 08:04:01 well internal resistance would push the voltage down anyway Oct 13 08:04:08 especially when uncharged Oct 13 08:04:27 I will visit some shops tomorrow and see what I can find in the way of chargers. Oct 13 08:04:32 but if a li+ is below 2.8V , many chargers reject it Oct 13 08:04:43 and the 'just apply some power for some time' really does work to 'revive' it Oct 13 08:04:51 it wont be a good battery Oct 13 08:22:19 aah the experts Oct 13 08:23:26 take a few classes basic physics, then understand that a LiIon will explode when you charge it TO 5V Oct 13 08:23:59 but you can't charge it WITH 5V, you can however charge it with less than 1000mA Oct 13 08:24:06 Fun when done intentionally, accidentally not that much Oct 13 08:24:57 and then BL-5J has built-in protection circuit that can handle at least up to 12V Oct 13 08:25:03 lol Oct 13 08:25:08 jonwil, go for it :P Oct 13 08:25:17 doc said you can Oct 13 08:25:46 and odds are ypour super duper universal charger is relying on that exclusively, charging the LiIon "with" 10V Oct 13 08:27:10 or do you think it has built-in AI that decides ift that's a NiCd, NiMH, 3V6 or 7V2 LiIon? Oct 13 08:27:29 it might have physical switch Oct 13 08:27:40 I highly doubt that Oct 13 08:27:56 for nimh/nicd, they are charged similarly Oct 13 08:28:03 no Oct 13 08:28:10 not the same, but similarly Oct 13 08:28:42 actually yiu need -delta V for NiMH Oct 13 08:29:37 when you charge NiMH in a NiCd charger, odds are they run away Oct 13 08:30:00 their cel voltage _drops_ when they get hot Oct 13 08:30:18 so they draw more current and get hotter.... Oct 13 08:30:40 A NiMH charger detects that drop in voltage Oct 13 08:31:18 ok, you might be right that you can connect usb power to discharged li-ion, but you dont have any way of current limiting in such setup Oct 13 08:31:37 the universal charger I found has an LCD screen and a bunch of buttons/settings by the look of it Oct 13 08:31:37 read what I said Oct 13 08:31:46 so the only way to check the state of charge would be either temperature or measuring voltage on battery periodically Oct 13 08:31:52 so you can probably tell it what sort of battery you have Oct 13 08:31:58 USB power itself has mandatory current limit Oct 13 08:32:24 doc, yes, but it's usually only good when liion is discharged Oct 13 08:32:29 Anyhow when I go to the shops tomorrow I will either find something I can use or know what I can try Oct 13 08:32:37 once its 30-50% full you have to limit current yourself Oct 13 08:32:54 and you can safely assume that an empty 1320mAh battery will cope with 30min of 1000mA Oct 13 08:33:40 umkay Oct 13 08:33:47 KotCzarny: do you really think you can mess with an EE with 50 years experience about battery charging? Oct 13 08:33:52 hehe Oct 13 08:34:02 but there is still human factor Oct 13 08:34:16 in such uncontrolled setup, user can forget about it Oct 13 08:34:23 I even calculated that too, I know jonwil for a few years now Oct 13 08:34:24 and have a tiny bomb waiting Oct 13 08:34:30 lol Oct 13 08:35:43 this procedure suggestion was tailored exactly for him and is not suitable for anybody else. Usually I strictly discourage that procedure for charging batteries Oct 13 08:36:23 I cant go with raw USB anyway since I have no spare USB cables and no way to expose the power wires Oct 13 08:36:29 no tools suitable Oct 13 08:36:42 but I knpow when I tell jonwil he must limit time to 30min and keep the battery temperature checked closely during that time, he will understand what that means# Oct 13 08:36:52 I will understand what it means Oct 13 08:37:15 But I dont have the patience to babysit a battery for 30 minutes Oct 13 08:37:26 I will go to the electronics and battery shops tomorrow and see what I can find and then go from there Oct 13 08:37:58 Either I end up with a suitable charger (which I can then use going forward as a general purpose USB charger) or I end up with nothing and I look for the next plan (whatever that might be) Oct 13 08:39:13 you will probably still have to fiddle to connect bl-5j to it Oct 13 08:40:18 yeah probably but if I need wires or whatever I can buy them somewhere as well Oct 13 08:40:27 jonwil: there are some cheapo chinese "universal" chargers that actually work Oct 13 08:40:39 fmg: remember he is in australia Oct 13 08:41:02 This model I am seeing online is probably a cheapo chinese charger brought in by this company and marked up to $50 Oct 13 08:41:04 so, no "made in china" import? i DOUBT :) Oct 13 08:41:16 fmg, not with his impatience Oct 13 08:41:17 ;) Oct 13 08:41:30 the cheapest "universal charger" I ever seen had a plastic case, two spring wires to attach to the battery contacts, a mains plug, a capacitor and a diode for rectifying and limiting mains current Oct 13 08:41:55 damn, what a dangerous and brainfucked device Oct 13 08:41:59 DocScrutinizer05: no, what I am talking about is a smart one, it detects the battery polarity etc Oct 13 08:42:44 I guess the charge current is some 200-300 mA, but still Oct 14 00:40:51 ~ping Oct 14 00:40:51 ~pong **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 14 03:00:01 2017