**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 04 03:00:02 2017 Dec 04 12:33:20 hey guise, what image viewers are out there for N900/Maemo? Dec 04 12:34:53 I don't like default one Dec 04 12:39:16 any linux one Dec 04 13:00:03 well, I'd have to get of me arse and get acqualinted with the SDK Dec 04 13:01:30 "it's as easy as typing 'make'!" Dec 04 13:01:33 hahahahahahaha Dec 04 13:06:18 feh is nice Dec 04 13:14:16 kinda Dec 04 13:17:27 feh could use some n900-specific patching though Dec 04 13:17:32 but yeah, it's "nice" :) Dec 04 13:17:46 (aka fast&simple) Dec 04 13:22:15 sxiv is not far off Dec 04 13:30:58 gpicview, couldn't find executable Dec 04 15:36:12 hmmm Dec 04 15:36:40 apparently, I am not allowed to make symlink to /media/mmc1/ in MyDocs Dec 04 15:36:54 is it because the FAT32 FS? Dec 04 15:36:56 MyDocs is fat Dec 04 15:37:44 I have a half-arsed application that does not know what an SDCard is Dec 04 15:38:22 http://davy.preuveneers.be/phoneme/?q=node/34 this fucker, right here Dec 04 15:38:54 wtf Dec 04 15:39:18 anyway, you might be able to get away with mount -o bind Dec 04 15:43:06 so, how do I use mount -o bind Dec 04 15:43:17 or rather, what is outcome Dec 04 15:43:37 think of it as overlay or junction Dec 04 15:43:58 man mount; basically it transparently remounts an already mounted fs at another mountpoint Dec 04 15:44:24 bencoh, not remounts, but duplicates on different path Dec 04 15:44:27 >man: no manual entry for 'mount' Dec 04 15:44:39 CatButts: on another unix system Dec 04 15:44:50 KotCzarny: duplicate isn't a good phrasing either Dec 04 15:45:17 yeah, it's only mounted once, but at two places Dec 04 15:45:30 remount would suggest previous umount Dec 04 15:45:34 hence my comment Dec 04 15:45:49 >mount: can't find evertest in /etc/fstab Dec 04 15:45:52 tee hee Dec 04 15:46:16 catbutts: consider linux for dummies lecture :P Dec 04 15:46:31 touch cat Dec 04 15:46:37 cat touch Dec 04 15:47:30 unzip; strip; touch; grep; finger; gasp; mount; fsck; yes; more; yes; umount; sleep Dec 04 15:50:26 I don't see any -o option Dec 04 15:50:32 there is -O Dec 04 15:53:53 mount /dev/mmc1 /media/mmc1 Dec 04 15:54:04 this would be what I have already Dec 04 15:54:48 when using the bind option, does the device or the media mount become first parameter? Dec 04 15:56:09 ah, it takes a directory Dec 04 15:57:08 lmao Dec 04 16:01:34 sudo mount -O bind /media/mmc1 /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 Dec 04 16:01:37 there we go Dec 04 16:01:50 thanks bencoh Dec 04 16:02:04 you can use any path as a source Dec 04 16:02:11 doesnt have to be exact mount point Dec 04 16:03:40 s/evertest/everest Dec 04 16:05:22 let's see how Storage Usage/Treesize likes the new mount point :P Dec 04 16:05:42 gracefully Dec 04 16:05:51 treats it as 0byte file Dec 04 16:08:02 s/file/folder Dec 04 16:08:13 I remember this feature working before Dec 04 16:08:46 was it disabled, or is it served on a whitelist? Dec 04 16:09:41 I recommend against mointing sth to /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 since /home/user/MyDocs is already a mountpoint itself Dec 04 16:10:24 it "works" but has all sorts of caveats Dec 04 16:11:23 yeah, none of the applications I care about work with PhoneME Dec 04 16:11:33 so I can unmount and call it a day Dec 04 16:11:53 bummer Dec 04 16:14:03 well, at least I learned a bit more of linux console Dec 04 16:15:23 if you really wanna learn about mount, see https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces/index.html Dec 04 16:16:53 until then, think of bindmounts as a form of (sym)link that only lives in kernel data structures Dec 04 16:23:42 a form of symlink, got it! Dec 04 16:23:55 I lost you at kernel data structures :P Dec 04 16:24:09 does it survive reboot? Dec 04 16:24:13 I am guessing no Dec 04 16:25:30 you're guessing right Dec 04 16:25:44 although you could add it to /etc/fstab Dec 04 16:26:59 (but I dont know when MyDocs is mounted, so this might lead to a race and might not be such a great idea) Dec 04 16:31:43 I don't mind my quick fix not surviving a reboot Dec 04 17:08:01 bencoh: that's why I recommended to rather _not_ (bind)mount anything there Dec 04 17:10:57 related: alias uhls=':(){ echo `readlink -f $1`; mkdir /tmp/uh && mount --bind / /tmp/uh && pushd /tmp/uh && ls -lR `readlink -f $1` && popd && umount /tmp/uh && rmdir /tmp/uh; };:' Dec 04 17:12:07 uh like UnHide Dec 04 17:12:42 which might well be needed to actually access your /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 mount Dec 04 17:12:59 when /home/user/MyDocs gets mounted later than /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 Dec 04 17:15:43 CatButts: phoneme *does* know how to use sd card just fine. no need for any (bind)mounts Dec 04 17:17:21 what application are you trying to run? Dec 04 17:29:32 what's phoneme? Dec 04 17:30:49 it emulates a javaphone Dec 04 17:30:53 J2SE Dec 04 17:31:29 it's one of the more decent emus Dec 04 17:31:31 J2ME :-) Dec 04 17:31:47 sorry, sicelo Dec 04 17:32:08 except the version I have is dated 2012 Dec 04 17:32:13 not quite so decent Dec 04 17:33:51 what's a javaphone? Dec 04 17:34:06 not that it sounds like anything faintly useful for N900 Dec 04 17:34:41 it's the older phones that run J2ME Dec 04 17:34:57 unrelated: Dec 04 17:34:59 ~palmos Dec 04 17:34:59 extra, extra, read all about it, palmos is the second finest OS this bot knows about Dec 04 17:35:25 I needed to copypaste this Dec 04 17:40:34 DocScrutinizer05: it's a J2ME emulator for running those old-school java applets Dec 04 17:41:16 e.g. on nkia S40 phones Dec 04 17:41:18 *Nokia Dec 04 17:42:11 http://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/Vibe_in_action.gif one of the few applications I cared about Dec 04 17:42:31 that, and opera mini Dec 04 17:43:01 opera mini mod Dec 04 17:43:11 the one giving you problems is that 'vibe'? Dec 04 17:43:19 yes Dec 04 17:43:45 hmmm, I think I can output a log Dec 04 17:43:50 what's nice/good about mini "mod" when compared to the plain one? Dec 04 17:44:00 everything Dec 04 17:44:14 it's like a browser-centric OS Dec 04 17:45:17 over-customisability, new browsing features, use heap or file storage for browser cache Dec 04 17:46:03 download manager, ftp client, file browser, basic media player, text viewer and editor, hex editor Dec 04 17:46:04 I still dont really understand why you'd run java-powered app on n900 Dec 04 17:46:27 I've got a few apps I liked on my java phones Dec 04 17:47:00 hell, maybe j2me keepass is more usable than n900 one! Dec 04 17:47:17 and vibe Dec 04 17:47:24 vibe is midi sequencer Dec 04 17:47:39 with a bunch of mods I added Dec 04 17:48:05 does n900 even have a midi seq? Dec 04 17:48:12 in the repos? Dec 04 17:48:18 nope! Dec 04 17:48:54 the only decent drawing application on this happens to be J2SE one Dec 04 17:49:26 I resort to other platforms because what is available directly for the N900 is Dec 04 17:49:28 well Dec 04 17:49:31 it's meh Dec 04 17:50:35 *on this phone Dec 04 17:52:32 CatButts: oscp can play midis Dec 04 17:52:46 vibe can make them Dec 04 17:53:16 but i dont think it has midi in the system Dec 04 17:54:02 decent drawing application? Dec 04 17:54:11 err Dec 04 17:54:48 sheepdrawing is the other one Dec 04 17:54:57 :p Dec 04 17:55:12 jk Dec 04 17:55:28 myPaint counts as 'half-arsed' port for me Dec 04 17:55:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66RBfrBgL2E Dec 04 17:57:31 http://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/screenshot03[2].png Dec 04 17:58:26 half-arsed, eh? Dec 04 17:59:14 half-shagged Dec 04 17:59:34 the GUI handles like it's meant for PC, not phone Dec 04 17:59:44 for myPaint Dec 04 18:00:15 that's why things while generally compile and work unmodified for maemo, need porting Dec 04 18:00:42 yes Dec 04 18:00:57 http://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/oekakiiiiiii.PNG this is simpler, compared to myPaint Dec 04 18:02:24 and with some diddling of the keymap, it's usable Dec 04 18:02:28 well, "it's NOT a phone" Dec 04 18:03:35 yeah, a standard phone would probably have no qwerty keyboard and would have shitty capacitive touchscreen :P Dec 04 18:03:46 no Dec 04 18:03:51 you are thinking of toyphone Dec 04 18:03:54 actually N900 is a palmtop PC, Nokia calls the series "Nokia Internet Tablet" Dec 04 18:04:09 standard phone would have buttons and would be capable of making and receiving phone calls Dec 04 18:04:25 sorry, my bad Dec 04 18:04:52 but even on standard phone I can run some neat applications Dec 04 18:05:07 if its J2ME implementation wills it Dec 04 18:05:07 like snake and minesweeper? :P Dec 04 18:06:02 why dont you just start looking for linux replacements of those j2me apps? Dec 04 18:06:15 they are usually pretty standard ideas implemented Dec 04 18:06:41 there's a J2ME compiler and IDE running on J2ME that no phone can properly run because it's not powerful enough :P Dec 04 18:07:35 well, the linux replacement of KeePassX on the Maemo sucks :P Dec 04 18:07:53 nope, its just not ported Dec 04 18:08:07 I'd have to learn new skills Dec 04 18:08:22 sure, that's what n900 is all about Dec 04 18:08:32 open source and all the perks of it Dec 04 18:08:54 * CatButts rolls on his lazy feline bumarse Dec 04 18:09:35 or I could decompile J2ME things and port them to J2SE by hand and forever hate myself :P Dec 04 18:09:40 then make a bounty and post on t.m.o Dec 04 18:09:47 and let someone else do the dirty job Dec 04 18:10:09 bounty means offering money, yes? Dec 04 18:10:25 or other things or services Dec 04 18:11:11 can I make a bounty for someone teaching me through first steps of weilding the Maemo SDK? Dec 04 18:11:13 :P Dec 04 18:11:20 sure Dec 04 18:12:09 I'll wait my next salary and think about it :P Dec 04 18:13:46 oh, curiosity Dec 04 18:14:05 does the digitizer on the n900 output a Z axis? Dec 04 18:14:23 aka pressure Dec 04 18:14:50 Nintendo DS did actually output that Dec 04 18:14:56 pressure no, but can detect your big grubby fingers getting grubbier on presses Dec 04 18:15:05 which is kinda similar Dec 04 18:15:33 oh, so it detects contact area? Dec 04 18:15:56 you should read how resistive screens work Dec 04 18:20:35 http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt209a/slyt209a.pdf Dec 04 18:20:40 * CatButts puts on glasses Dec 04 18:22:39 CatButts: serious!? ypaint is half-arsed port???? Dec 04 18:24:13 yes, the gui/menus are a pain Dec 04 18:24:46 that appear suited for PC Dec 04 18:24:59 8mm sorry, but you're unbelievable! just look at your drawing app's screenshot - looks like a toy app Dec 04 18:25:11 s/8mm/I'm/ Dec 04 18:25:11 sicelo meant: I'm sorry, but you're unbelievable! just look at your drawing app's screenshot - looks like a toy app Dec 04 18:25:43 just learn the shortcuts. there's a reason why N900 has qwerty keyboard Dec 04 18:26:14 i use only one j2me app now - a bible in my home language Dec 04 18:26:46 used 2go as well before, but for some reason now it causes my n900 to reboot unexpectedly Dec 04 18:27:08 huh? Dec 04 18:27:21 yes. no idea why :-) Dec 04 18:27:23 swaphell + watchdog? Dec 04 18:27:27 does it make you feel better if I tell you it's a java applet, half-arsedly ported to desktop, then half-arsedly adapted to N900? Dec 04 18:27:33 not swap hell Dec 04 18:27:37 cant imagine any other reason Dec 04 18:27:42 therefore, it's quarter-arsedly, sicelo :P Dec 04 18:28:50 KotCzarny: not even heavy cpu use. i wanted to turn on RD mode to do better debugging, but got lazy. 2go not a priority anyway - just that a couple of people use it Dec 04 18:29:15 CatButts: "it" in your last messages means your drawing app, or mypaint? Dec 04 18:29:36 my drawing app Dec 04 18:31:40 midi sequencer we don't have on N900 (due to general MIDI issues with Linux anyway) Dec 04 18:31:53 look at Sunvox though Dec 04 18:32:08 that's pretty good Dec 04 18:32:23 albeit, a bit heavy on the poor CPU Dec 04 18:33:01 have yet to get used to its UI Dec 04 18:33:24 hmmm, I wonder if Java Embedded has built-in midi playback Dec 04 18:33:39 J2SE for desktop certainly has Dec 04 18:33:41 prolly not Dec 04 18:34:07 but on pc you can stuff software renderer to alsa to act as a sequencer Dec 04 18:37:44 I have this one replayer for some obscure tracked music format lying around, maybe I can coax myself to make a music tool around it Dec 04 18:49:05 J2SE embedded does have built in midi player Dec 04 18:49:13 it's called Gervil Dec 04 18:54:40 no wait Dec 04 18:54:52 Gervil is part of OpenJDK Dec 04 19:22:11 you just want a midi player? :-/ Dec 04 19:22:17 oscp! Dec 04 19:22:18 ;) Dec 04 19:22:25 then just get oscp by all means! Dec 04 19:22:28 yes :-) Dec 04 19:23:16 https://sourceforge.net/projects/oscp/ shameless self promotion :P Dec 04 19:24:14 what does oscp use for tracked music? Dec 04 19:24:24 libmodplug or libopenmpt? Dec 04 19:24:41 the latter being the successor of the former Dec 04 19:24:47 inb4 neither Dec 04 19:24:51 libxmp Dec 04 19:24:55 for plain mods Dec 04 19:25:01 óscp Dec 04 19:25:04 ~oscp Dec 04 19:25:05 hmm... oscp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94590 Dec 04 19:25:07 read that page Dec 04 19:25:15 s3xmodit Dec 04 19:25:28 s3m xm mod it Dec 04 19:25:32 and grab the version from extras-devel Dec 04 19:25:39 because the one in extras is ancient Dec 04 19:26:09 and what do you use for midi? Dec 04 19:26:16 libwildmidi Dec 04 19:26:42 you will have to add sound files too, freepats will suffice tho Dec 04 19:26:43 oooooh, softsynth Dec 04 19:27:04 wildmidi is cpu friendly Dec 04 19:27:13 https://www.mindwerks.net/projects/wildmidi/ Dec 04 19:27:23 wait, it says softsynth at top of the page Dec 04 19:27:36 does it actually have synthesized patches? Dec 04 19:27:46 or is it ye olde wave player Dec 04 19:28:29 you know that midi uses samples? even in keyboards? Dec 04 19:28:40 not necesarely Dec 04 19:28:47 midi is set of commands Dec 04 19:28:47 many sound banks in keyboards are sampled for quality Dec 04 19:28:55 and those cheaper ones are synths Dec 04 19:29:04 but nothing stops you from using synth bank Dec 04 19:29:15 it's up to the midi device/software to decide what to do with the commands Dec 04 19:29:40 you can easily convert and use any sf2 sound bank Dec 04 19:30:07 but keep in mind n900 is a bit short on mem, so dont go overboard with 300MB sound bank :P Dec 04 19:30:16 lol Dec 04 19:31:06 oscp comes with bank prepackaged? Dec 04 19:31:10 nope Dec 04 19:31:16 ah, my job there Dec 04 19:31:21 for size reasons and because freepats is in repo Dec 04 19:31:34 but install freepats first if you want it to autodetect Dec 04 19:32:01 otherwise you will have to specify location of the files Dec 04 20:09:55 ~cookie Dec 04 20:09:56 * infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... bookmark-news... slashdot, cnn Dec 04 20:10:24 ~botsnack Dec 04 20:10:24 DocScrutinizer05: aw, gee Dec 04 20:53:23 java's built in midi softsynth is too much for poor n900 :P Dec 04 23:24:15 apparently, maemo will not allow execution of HardFP elves Dec 04 23:24:38 can't even segfault in peace :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 05 03:00:01 2017