**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 15 03:00:01 2018
Feb 15 05:42:11 <brolin_empey> My father, who is an electrical/electronics engineer, said that he thinks a USB cable has sufficient capacitance to be sensed by a capacitive touch panel because of the metal shielding in the cable.  A different brand/make and model of USB cable we have at work also worked to control the capacitive touch screen even while the USB cable is not connected to anything.
Feb 15 06:13:30 <Oksana> Isn't that how styluses for capacitive touch screens work?
Feb 15 06:26:53 <brolin_empey> Oksana: Maybe, I do not know off hand.
Feb 15 06:30:30 <brolin_empey> I also forgot much of what I learned about optical fibre technology probably at least a decade ago by now but now the wired ISP at both my home and work (same ISP) has finished installing optical fibre for customers who want to upgrade from ADSL.
Feb 15 06:32:22 <brolin_empey> I mean I studied optical fibre technology probably at least a decade ago but by now I have forgotten much of what I learned about the subject.
Feb 15 06:36:46 <brolin_empey> Internet service via optical fibre has only recently become available in my area because my home and work are in a low-density suburb, not in the high-density areas closer to the center of the metropolitan area.  Those areas have had optical fibre Internet service available for probably over five years by now.
Feb 15 06:38:54 <brolin_empey> I gather that metropolitan Ethernet is used by ISPs at least in Moscow but it is not used here (Metro Vancouver, Canada) as far as I know.
Feb 15 10:14:18 <sixwheeledbeast> FTTP is pretty rare for domestic here. Most people have either ADSL, VDSL or DOCSIS. Once the backbone network is fully upgraded to fibre everyone on xDSL connection will be switched to IP only, POTS will be switched off (5 years). No one is certain how they are going to implement that at the subscriber end.
Feb 15 11:20:23 <sy> so I've tried to uninstall kernel power, which or wouldn't let me do, so i rebooted
Feb 15 11:20:42 <sy> now I'm getting bootloops
Feb 15 11:22:04 <sy> i also can't get to uboot
Feb 15 11:25:02 <Wizzup> that is weird?
Feb 15 11:25:05 <Wizzup> did you set up u-boot?
Feb 15 11:25:15 <Wizzup> Open the keyboard if you want u-boot
Feb 15 11:26:29 <sy> trying now
Feb 15 11:27:31 <sy> nope same thing
Feb 15 11:28:17 <sy> gonna stick it on charge for a little bit
Feb 15 11:32:46 <zGrr> moin :)
Feb 15 11:36:17 <sy> i don't think i can even download the stock ROMs anymore...
Feb 15 11:37:19 <sixwheeledbeast> I would assume you have no kernel installed, device may not charge if bootlooping. I don't think its recommended to "uninstall" kernel-power.
Feb 15 11:37:24 <sixwheeledbeast> ~bootloop
Feb 15 11:37:24 <infobot> somebody said bootloop was when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.
Feb 15 11:39:45 <sy> fuck
Feb 15 11:40:16 <sy> well i can just charge it directly
Feb 15 11:43:16 <sy> only took me two days to brick
Feb 15 11:44:29 <sixwheeledbeast> they are pretty unbrickable. I imagine it won't be the first or last time you need to reflash it.
Feb 15 11:47:32 <sy> heh
Feb 15 11:47:58 <sy> still have to charge it the redneck way though
Feb 15 11:48:10 <sy> had to do this when i bought it too
Feb 15 11:53:57 <sixwheeledbeast> be careful when charging lithium batteries via "redneck" means. I suggest rescueos maybe worth a look. I have an inexpensive external charger for BL5J
Feb 15 11:54:03 <sixwheeledbeast> ~rescueos
Feb 15 11:54:03 <infobot> rescueos is probably http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/
Feb 15 11:54:24 <sy> what do i do with this?
Feb 15 11:55:00 <KotCzarny> educate yourself
Feb 15 11:55:06 <KotCzarny> hack
Feb 15 11:55:09 <KotCzarny> charge
Feb 15 11:55:11 <KotCzarny> you name it
Feb 15 11:55:33 <KotCzarny> think of it as a usb loaded os
Feb 15 11:56:21 <KotCzarny> in your case probably you want to flash kernel and maybe update modules dir
Feb 15 11:58:13 <sixwheeledbeast> Worth a read -> https://github.com/quitesimpleorg/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/documentation.txt
Feb 15 11:58:35 <sixwheeledbeast> I was thinking charging with bootlooping device.
Feb 15 12:03:51 <sixwheeledbeast> Yep, if your new to N900 you have lots to learn. Even if your familiar with Debian etc.
Feb 15 12:04:08 <KotCzarny> 'you're'
Feb 15 12:04:19 <sixwheeledbeast> ~reflash
Feb 15 12:04:20 <infobot> methinks reflash is zImage and/or initrd.bin on CF and press C+D+Reset (collie) OR updater.sh, zimage.bin and/or initrd.bin on CF/SD and press OK while rebooting, then option 4, then CD or SF, then HAI (yes), then wait and cross fingers (all other models)
Feb 15 12:04:29 <sixwheeledbeast> ~grammer
Feb 15 12:04:29 <infobot> it's grammar, dammit.
Feb 15 12:04:52 <KotCzarny> :>
Feb 15 12:05:06 <KotCzarny> ~your
Feb 15 12:05:06 <infobot> it has been said that your is the possessive of you, and is not "you're", which means "you are"
Feb 15 12:05:09 <sy> oh it's literally a flash
Feb 15 12:05:20 <sy> doesn't even persist
Feb 15 12:05:25 <KotCzarny> btw. for flashing:
Feb 15 12:05:27 <sixwheeledbeast> ~flashing
Feb 15 12:05:27 <KotCzarny> ~flashing
Feb 15 12:05:27 <infobot> i guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
Feb 15 12:05:38 <sixwheeledbeast> ~snap
Feb 15 12:05:39 <infobot> i heard sfsnap is http://sfsnap.babylonia.flatirons.org/bzflag/, or http://bzflag.org/cvs/
Feb 15 12:05:52 <sixwheeledbeast> ok i didn't expect that
Feb 15 12:05:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Feb 15 12:06:43 <sixwheeledbeast> cloud7 should have the image you need
Feb 15 12:07:02 <KotCzarny> afair the script gets the image automatically
Feb 15 12:08:36 <sixwheeledbeast> :nod:
Feb 15 12:11:46 <sy> yeah I'll use my redneck method
Feb 15 12:11:51 <sy> already had to do it once
Feb 15 12:12:01 <sy> but nice to know i have an alternative
Feb 15 13:43:56 <sixwheeledbeast> 'you are' probably going to need it for repairing the problem. Unless you are just doing to flash the image to stock.
Feb 15 13:51:34 <sicelo> cleanup
Feb 15 13:51:45 <sicelo> sorry ..
Feb 15 15:57:08 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast: ACK.
Feb 15 15:57:46 <sixwheeledbeast> ?
Feb 15 20:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~kp
Feb 15 20:53:58 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287
Feb 15 20:54:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ~uboot
Feb 15 20:54:09 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
Feb 15 20:55:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~tell sy about lf
Feb 15 20:57:25 <sy> oh
Feb 15 21:15:33 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Uninstalling kernel itself is possible only via menu entry "Nokia Kernel". NEVER UNINSTALL KERNEL POWER PACKAGES!!! IT CAN MAKE YOUR DEVICE UNBOOTABLE.<<
Feb 15 21:16:25 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't uninstall kernel on any OS
Feb 15 21:22:52 <sy> you live you learn
Feb 15 21:23:28 <sy> the more i think the nokia does some special things with their os, the more i realise its just plain boring old linux
Feb 15 21:24:52 <sy> i unbricked it!
Feb 15 21:24:57 <sy> wait what >enter your code
Feb 15 21:33:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, maemo is boring old linux, that's the nice part about it. It's even 99% debian (pre-systemd). The nasty part is about "middleware" like liblocation, ncd2 (connection manager), mce, bme, whatnot else. All those are not exactly "system", at least not core system, but they are needed to make maemo run the way we want it, incl WLAN and phonecalls and all. And many of that middleware are closed bobs
Feb 15 21:34:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ~closed
Feb 15 21:34:47 <infobot> methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900, or https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo
Feb 15 21:35:46 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: ncd2, do you mean icd2?
Feb 15 21:35:54 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, yes
Feb 15 21:36:12 <Wizzup> btw - https://github.com/maemo-leste/icd2
Feb 15 21:36:23 <DocScrutinizer05> :-) yeah great achievement
Feb 15 21:36:36 <Wizzup> done by fmg :)
Feb 15 21:37:00 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo-leste rapidly converges with our dreams of what maemo should have been from beginning
Feb 15 21:38:13 <Wizzup> nice :)  there's likely quite some big hurdles left, but we're making decent progress
Feb 15 21:38:38 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, (PL) you're doing an incredible job
Feb 15 21:39:31 <DocScrutinizer05> btw parazyd has devel devices now :-)
Feb 15 21:40:08 <parazyd> oh thanks for reminding!
Feb 15 21:40:15 <parazyd> i'll drop you an email now
Feb 15 21:40:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ta
Feb 15 21:40:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I need a receipt for accounting
Feb 15 21:44:39 <DocScrutinizer05> parazyd: you as well might want to re-read the concept of uBoot on N900
Feb 15 21:44:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ~uboot
Feb 15 21:44:55 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
Feb 15 21:45:52 <DocScrutinizer05> those kernel image files of course can live on uSD as well
Feb 15 21:46:04 <parazyd> we boot everything from microsd for now
Feb 15 21:46:23 <Wizzup> well, u-boot is not on microsd right now
Feb 15 21:46:34 <Wizzup> (obviously)
Feb 15 21:47:03 <DocScrutinizer05> *theoretically* I gather there's also an option to keep MLO (1st stage bootloader, when assuming ROMBL=0stage) on either uSD or eMMC as well
Feb 15 21:47:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~boot
Feb 15 21:47:40 <infobot> methinks boot is http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project
Feb 15 21:48:35 <DocScrutinizer05> MLO ala x-loader
Feb 15 21:50:01 <DocScrutinizer05> MLO and NOLO are a siamese twin in N900 like uBoot+kernel
Feb 15 21:51:23 <Wizzup> I like the term siamese twin here, hehe
Feb 15 21:55:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the boot sequence in N900 (with uBoot) is:  ROMBL -> [X-Loader->NOLO] --chainload--> [uBoot--*?-->StockKernel] ===> rootfs
Feb 15 21:56:21 <DocScrutinizer05> *? may divert to other kernels
Feb 15 21:56:35 <DocScrutinizer05> like uSD-residing leste
Feb 15 21:57:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ROMBL however searches uSD or eMMC (I'm not sure which) too, to find a xloader
Feb 15 21:59:35 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# bin/omap34xx-boot-order 
Feb 15 21:59:36 <DocScrutinizer05> sys_boot[5:0]: 0x10
Feb 15 21:59:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- 
Feb 15 22:00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> so when you nuke NOLO, you can boot from MMC1
Feb 15 22:00:55 <DocScrutinizer05> watch out, maemo renames/swaps MMC1 and MMC0(?) during boot, if a uSD is inserted
Feb 15 22:04:19 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/unsorted-whatever/omap34xx-boot-order
Feb 15 22:08:31 <DocScrutinizer05> http://blog.csdn.net/yasin_lee/article/details/7229349  seems to be a copy, but...
Feb 15 22:12:59 <DocScrutinizer05> The SDCard x-loader looks for a FAT32 partition on the first MMC controller and scans the top level directory for a file named "u-boot.bin". It then transfers the file into main memory and transfers control to it.
Feb 15 22:13:33 <DocScrutinizer05> Bokia's xloader will not do that, you need a geberic xloader from TI for that
Feb 15 22:14:02 <DocScrutinizer05> oops forgot >>quote marks<<
Feb 15 22:14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> >>The SDCard x-loader looks for a FAT32 partition on the first MMC controller and scans the top level directory for a file named "u-boot.bin". It then transfers the file into main memory and transfers control to it.<< http://blog.csdn.net/yasin_lee/article/details/7229349
Feb 15 22:21:13 <sy> so some packages depend on kernel for power user, but I installed the uboot package variant instead
Feb 15 22:25:22 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, which packages depend on kernel-power?
Feb 15 22:25:48 <DocScrutinizer05> they should depend on a property instead
Feb 15 22:26:20 <DocScrutinizer05> if at all
Feb 15 22:26:55 <DocScrutinizer05> actually any package that needs powerkernel specific features should determine if those are available, at runtime, not install time
Feb 15 22:27:43 <DocScrutinizer05> since obviously you could boot same rootfs from different kernels, via uBoot
Feb 15 22:29:13 <DocScrutinizer05> sy: *which* packages depend on KP?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 16 03:00:01 2018