**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 17 03:00:01 2018
Feb 17 06:28:15 <brolin_empey> CatButts: Are you using Windows 10 for x86-64?  If yes, you can try to use the Linux subsystem for Windows 10 to run x86-64 (ELF) Linux executables on Windows 10.
Feb 17 06:43:56 <brolin_empey> There are also a few other (all inactive inclusive-or only for old versions of Windows NT?) third-party/community projects to run Linux ELF executables on Windows NT, such as http://cowlark.com/lbw/ , http://atratus.org/ , and LINE.
Feb 17 06:49:34 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: You can boot an N900 or other mobile computer whose hardware is designed so that the computer is always powered by the battery terminals without a battery installed if you use a laboratory/bench power supply to directly power the battery terminals. ;-)
Feb 17 06:51:22 <brolin_empey> Seriously, I did that after the USB connector broke/came loose on my first N900.
Feb 17 06:56:17 <brolin_empey> Speaking of USB connectors, I keep forgetting that I wanted to check if something exists as a COTS product: a USB cable with both a microUSB plug and a USB Type C plug (I think plug?) on one end of the cable, like the StarTech USB cables I have with both a miniUSB plug and a microUSB plug on one end of the cable.
Feb 17 07:00:58 <brolin_empey> The only device I have that uses a USB Type C connector is still the XHCI PCI Express card I used to add USB 3 connectivity to my LGA775/Socket-T (Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad) tower computer at home and work.
Feb 17 07:07:29 <CatButts> [08:28] <brolin_empey> CatButts: Are you using Windows 10 for x86-64?  If yes, you can try to use the Linux subsystem for Windows 10 to run x86-64 (ELF) Linux executables on Windows 10.
Feb 17 07:07:31 <CatButts> naw
Feb 17 07:07:34 <CatButts> windows XP
Feb 17 07:10:15 <brolin_empey> CatButts: Windows XP for x86-32?
Feb 17 07:10:58 <CatButts> sure
Feb 17 07:11:59 <brolin_empey> CatButts: Then you can try to use LBW if you install Interix.  Why are you still using Windows XP, though?
Feb 17 07:12:10 <CatButts> I feel at home!
Feb 17 07:12:45 <brolin_empey> CatButts: Because you live in 2001?
Feb 17 07:12:51 <CatButts> https://github.com/MyTDT-Mysoft/DllCompat
Feb 17 07:12:54 <CatButts> maybe
Feb 17 07:14:51 <CatButts> oh, so LBW is like WSL, before the WSL, right?
Feb 17 07:14:59 <brolin_empey> Or 2008 for Windows XP Service Pack 3, which was released only for x86-32 even though Windows XP was released for x86-64 in 2005.
Feb 17 07:15:21 <CatButts> I use the POSReady 2009 variant
Feb 17 07:15:31 <CatButts> I stop getting updates this year :P
Feb 17 07:16:06 <CatButts> my goal is to try my hand at making a portable, standalone zip with tools
Feb 17 07:16:11 <Maxdamantus> Time to become a luser.
Feb 17 07:17:13 <CatButts> I'd rather be a win-ner
Feb 17 07:18:00 <CatButts> I brush with linux from time to time, but I'd rather windows for desktop use
Feb 17 07:18:11 <CatButts> and everyday use
Feb 17 07:18:24 <brolin_empey> Maxdamantus: Dave Cutler is my hero. ;-)
Feb 17 07:19:03 <CatButts> https://github.com/riscv/riscv-gnu-toolchain/tree/master/linux-headers/include/linux/netfilter_ipv4 huston, we have a problem
Feb 17 07:19:20 <CatButts> same filenames with different case
Feb 17 07:19:45 <CatButts> only some of netfilter headers, out of all SDK source have this
Feb 17 07:20:01 <Maxdamantus> I did that once.
Feb 17 07:20:17 <Maxdamantus> https://github.com/Maxdamantus/hsstyx
Feb 17 07:20:31 <Maxdamantus> Should probably avoid that if I get around to continuing with that project.
Feb 17 07:22:24 <CatButts> http://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/funstuf.png
Feb 17 07:22:38 <CatButts> so, what is typical use of these headers
Feb 17 07:23:22 <CatButts> no doubt, I will be missing them, and any pack I will be making wil be at best a half-arsed deal, due to this alone
Feb 17 07:23:45 <CatButts> *will
Feb 17 07:24:08 <brolin_empey> Windows NT can, with its Installable File System support, support *nix file systems such as ext2/3/4 where it is somewhat common to have a directory containing multiple entries whose names differ only in case.
Feb 17 07:24:15 <CatButts> yes
Feb 17 07:24:46 <CatButts> but it's implemented in such a way, that you have to explicitly call for that support
Feb 17 07:24:59 <CatButts> https://stackoverflow.com/a/34000339
Feb 17 07:25:27 <CatButts> I suppose it's a remanent of old DOS/early windows days
Feb 17 07:25:28 <brolin_empey> I do not remember but NTFS may support that use case even if it requires changing the default configuration.
Feb 17 07:25:33 <CatButts> it does
Feb 17 07:25:46 <CatButts> it is in fact, case sensitive
Feb 17 07:26:46 <CatButts> >The older Microsoft Windows filesystems VFAT and FAT32 are not case-sensitive, but are case-preserving.
Feb 17 07:26:52 <CatButts> there you go
Feb 17 07:27:05 <CatButts> up to win98
Feb 17 07:27:11 <CatButts> maybe early NT
Feb 17 07:27:48 <CatButts> >Starting with Windows NT 3.1, [NTFS]it is the default file system of Windows NT family.
Feb 17 07:28:18 <CatButts> so, what be these headers I pointed out?
Feb 17 07:28:38 <CatButts> from the little reading I've done, I gather it's network packet manipulation
Feb 17 07:29:47 <brolin_empey> Windows NT 3.1 is the first final/public release of Windows NT, from 1993.
Feb 17 07:31:09 <brolin_empey> Windows 98 is not the last release of the original Windows series.  Windows Me is.
Feb 17 07:31:22 <CatButts> then I stand corrected
Feb 17 07:32:39 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: I'm EE, why do you tell me such obvious stuff?
Feb 17 07:34:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I referred to Neo900's ability to boot from USB power without battery
Feb 17 07:34:05 <brolin_empey> VFAT can be used on all of FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32.  I can even use VFAT on FAT12 on a 5.25-inch flexible disc on Windows 10 for x86-64 if I want.
Feb 17 07:34:59 <DocScrutinizer05> since the charger is unrelated to the system power branch
Feb 17 07:35:44 <DocScrutinizer05> so even while the battery is low voltage, the USB can provide sufficient voltage to the Vsys rail
Feb 17 07:37:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it will throttle battery charging sufficiently to not exceed the configured VBUS supply minus the Vsys current
Feb 17 07:38:25 <DocScrutinizer05> so worst case the system can consume 100% of the power available from VBUS, while battery doesn't get charged at all during that time
Feb 17 07:39:32 <DocScrutinizer05> for modem operation, you need a 2A USB power supply
Feb 17 07:39:47 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I was joking by being literal because I redd some message from you saying something about booting without a battery installed usually not being possible (on N900 or other common mobile computer design, not on Neo900).  I quickly looked through the backlog but do not see the message I was referencing.
Feb 17 07:43:19 * CatButts measures header inclusion damage recursively
Feb 17 08:02:20 <brolin_empey> CatButts: When you mount vfat on Linux, you should specify shortname=winnt in the mount options.
Feb 17 08:03:17 <CatButts> I assume that's what n900 does by default with the MyDocs
Feb 17 08:06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: aah ok, sorry I'm a tad tired and so didn't notice the joke
Feb 17 08:09:13 <DocScrutinizer05> pkill9: sequel to my former post: http://paste.opensuse.org/69029801
Feb 17 08:10:02 <Wizzup> pkill9: doubt it
Feb 17 08:13:57 <DocScrutinizer05> CatButts: mount ->>  /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir)
Feb 17 08:14:11 <CatButts> mixed
Feb 17 08:19:22 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: Anyway, many things are not obvious if you have not studied a subject from an accurate and up-to-date source or are otherwise not familiar with a subject.
Feb 17 08:24:49 <brolin_empey> Is it obvious that I cannot literally give you two cents in cash because I live in Canada, which removed the 0.01 CAD coin from circulation a few years ago? ;-)
Feb 17 08:28:53 <brolin_empey> I mean I cannot give you exactly 0.02 CAD in cash but I can still give you exactly 0.05 CAD in cash.
Feb 17 08:51:18 * DocScrutinizer05 hands brolin_empey a plate shears
Feb 17 08:54:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess 0.125CAD (a quarter) will do for all practical purposes, also eliminates lots of debates about precision  of the cutting
Feb 17 08:55:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm pretty sure your 5ct is also worth more in metal than the nominal value, like all those mini coins do, almost everywhere
Feb 17 09:07:51 <CatButts> I got bored and made dependency map of pesky netfilter files
Feb 17 09:07:52 <CatButts> https://pastebin.com/7nNmmhpV
Feb 17 09:10:14 <CatButts> whoops, https://pastebin.com/q636exwL
Feb 17 09:24:27 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: Did you mean 0.0125 CAD?
Feb 17 09:24:52 <DocScrutinizer05> err yes, sorry
Feb 17 09:27:11 <brolin_empey> OK.  I think that would be technically illegal to cut a coin, though, because the tangible money (cash) is the property of the government?
Feb 17 09:41:00 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure
Feb 17 09:41:14 <DocScrutinizer05> depends on country and legislation
Feb 17 09:45:01 <KotCzarny> maybe that's why they are afraid of bitcoins
Feb 17 09:53:01 <brolin_empey> Incidentally: Does MediaWiki seriously lack the ability to return all items that are in multiple categories, such as both “Mobile phones with an integrated hardware keyboard” and “Android (operating system) devices”?  It seems that the answer is yes but I do not think I have ever actually taken the time to search the Internet for an answer to this question.
Feb 17 09:57:00 <brolin_empey> The English-language Wikipedia should also have a category for mobile devices using an x86 SoC since such devices are a minority compared to devices using an ARM SoC, in case someone has plenty of free time (CatButts?).
Feb 17 09:57:35 <CatButts> yes, stick ReactOS on mobile phone
Feb 17 09:57:36 <CatButts> :p
Feb 17 09:57:55 <CatButts> what would these even use?
Feb 17 09:57:59 <CatButts> Atom CPUs?
Feb 17 09:58:18 <CatButts> something of low TDP, anyway
Feb 17 09:58:27 <CatButts> and low power as well
Feb 17 09:59:25 <brolin_empey> CatButts: Yes, usually an Intel Atom SoC for somewhat recent devices.
Feb 17 10:01:41 <CatButts> ReactOS does compile to ARM
Feb 17 10:02:05 <CatButts> kind of a novelty, in my mind
Feb 17 10:02:51 <CatButts> I imagine emulating x86 and a low-end(by today's standards) ARM device would pe
Feb 17 10:02:54 <CatButts> *be
Feb 17 10:03:03 <CatButts> highly unpleasant user experience
Feb 17 10:03:44 <CatButts> would it be slower than running applications through Java Runtime?
Feb 17 10:03:58 <CatButts> I imagine so
Feb 17 10:05:01 <CatButts> *on a low-end
Feb 17 10:05:29 <CatButts> I think I need to put food in my stomach, I can't even type properly anymore
Feb 17 10:10:43 <brolin_empey> Windows NT for ARM began shipping years ago, first when Windows Phone 8 (if I recall correctly) replaced the Windows CE kernel with the Windows NT kernel.  Windows 10 was released for the Raspberry Pi version 2 and later.
Feb 17 10:12:40 <CatButts> yeah
Feb 17 10:12:52 <CatButts> I think they also have emulation
Feb 17 10:13:05 <CatButts> x86 on ARM
Feb 17 10:13:13 <CatButts> or x86-54
Feb 17 10:14:08 <CatButts> https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm
Feb 17 10:16:00 <brolin_empey> Few notebook computers used to use an AMD x86 CPU but that situation seems to be changing.
Feb 17 10:18:53 <brolin_empey> Yes, at least HP and Asus have announced plans to release a notebook computer running Windows 10 on a Qualcomm (Snapdragon) ARM SoC later this year.
Feb 17 10:20:15 * CatButts gently pats ReactOS on head and watches it grow slower than paint dries
Feb 17 10:20:47 <CatButts> I call it pessimistic admiration
Feb 17 10:21:12 <brolin_empey> I wonder if any of these notebook computers will use an LED display instead of an LCD.
Feb 17 10:26:00 <brolin_empey> Woz finally met Jack Tramiel near the end of Jack’s life but I wonder if Woz or Steve Jobs ever met Chuck Peddle.
Feb 17 11:07:00 <pkill9> i tried ReacTOS in a VM, i liked the retro feel, it really felt like using windows 98
Feb 17 11:07:12 <pkill9> other than that, it doesn't do much, lol
Feb 17 11:09:59 <CatButts> it's pretty much alpha
Feb 17 15:17:23 <Juesto> of the maemo original devs, which are remaining with interest in maemo?
Feb 17 15:59:15 <MartiniMoe> hi there! :) im looking for firmware and flasher (for linux) for my n900. sadly i dont get the hint in the topic >_> could anyone help me?
Feb 17 15:59:35 <Juesto> ~flasher
Feb 17 15:59:36 <infobot> refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Feb 17 15:59:40 <Juesto> MartiniMoe: ^
Feb 17 15:59:45 <Juesto> ~firmware
Feb 17 15:59:45 <infobot> from memory, firmware is please see ~combined ~emmc ~flasher
Feb 17 16:00:06 <MartiniMoe> Juesto: ah, a bot, thanks! :)
Feb 17 16:00:08 <Juesto> MartiniMoe: you type what does the topic says
Feb 17 16:00:46 <MartiniMoe> ~lf
Feb 17 16:00:46 <infobot> [#maemo lazyflashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Feb 17 16:00:57 <Juesto> lol
Feb 17 16:02:43 <MartiniMoe> thats great! :D
Feb 17 16:02:56 <MartiniMoe> ~combined
Feb 17 16:02:57 <infobot> combined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Feb 17 19:09:00 <sixwheeledbeast> If flashing from linux lf is the way.
Feb 17 19:35:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lf
Feb 17 19:35:25 <infobot> somebody said #maemo lazyflashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Feb 17 23:26:46 <Juesto> DocScrutinizer05: you lead neo900 development?
Feb 17 23:27:00 * Juesto should be asking in #neo900
Feb 17 23:55:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Juesto: well, better ask there, yes. But anyway, what development?
Feb 17 23:56:01 <Juesto> neo900....
Feb 17 23:56:23 <Juesto> the device i guess?
Feb 17 23:56:28 <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 R&D right now lacks a layouter
Feb 17 23:56:36 <Juesto> is it composed of multiple projects?
Feb 17 23:56:55 <DocScrutinizer05> no, just of multiple tasks
Feb 17 23:58:06 <DocScrutinizer05> so, are you asking about OS development, HW development, website development, businessplan development...?
Feb 17 23:58:29 <Juesto> not sure, overall i guess?
Feb 17 23:59:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh sorry, I missed to put on my glasses. I read "need" instead "lead"
Feb 18 00:00:28 <DocScrutinizer05> generally yes, I lead all development except OS/sw which I only mentorship
Feb 18 00:00:58 <Juesto> which software it is using
Feb 18 00:01:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 doesn't do sw
Feb 18 00:01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fptf
Feb 18 00:01:24 <infobot> somebody said fptf was the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
Feb 18 00:01:37 <Juesto>  so it will run leste i guess?
Feb 18 00:01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> it wuill run whatever you decide to put on. that's the whole point
Feb 18 00:02:49 <Juesto> ftpf posts need to be updated to include leste :)
Feb 18 00:03:06 <DocScrutinizer05> it's made to be 100% compatible to N900 though, so a naeno fremantle should basically run OOTB
Feb 18 00:03:27 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo*
Feb 18 00:06:58 <Juesto> OOTB?
Feb 18 00:07:04 <Juesto> ah, out of the box
Feb 18 00:07:14 <Juesto> s/need/should/
Feb 18 00:07:19 <Juesto> ugh
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 18 03:00:00 2018