**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 21 03:00:02 2018
Feb 21 03:57:21 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: Can the Openmoko GTA02 be powered from the USB port without a battery installed?  I do not remember and do not care enough to try with one of the GTA02 I still have (but stopped using years ago).
Feb 21 03:57:39 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Feb 21 03:57:51 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc not
Feb 21 03:58:41 <brolin_empey> OK, that is what I thought but, as I said, I do not remember.
Feb 21 04:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> well wait. with depleted battery for sure not. Without any battery, jury still out
Feb 21 04:01:52 <brolin_empey> My work is now internetworked via FTTP using a Nokia box to convert from the optical fibre to Ethernet using copper wire.  So now I use a Nokia product other than a USB power supply again. ;-)
Feb 21 04:04:33 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea if PCF50633 needs to see a battery at VB and/or BATSNS to start up
Feb 21 04:06:03 <DocScrutinizer05> also no idea if VSYS might get powered by that chip without battery, for sure it can't power the modem running directly from VB
Feb 21 04:06:24 <brolin_empey> Does metropolitan Ethernet, as used in at least part of Russia (Moscow), use Ethernet over optical fibre?  I keep forgetting that Ethernet can use optical fibre in addition to copper wire because I only ever knowingly use Ethernet over copper wire.
Feb 21 04:08:36 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea
Feb 21 04:10:31 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway re GTA02 see http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/schematics/GTA02/Schematics_Freerunner-GTA02_A5-A7cumulative_public_RC0.pdf
Feb 21 04:11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> p.4
Feb 21 04:11:55 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I still have at least four GTA02 collecting dust on my shelf at home, I can quickly try it instead of speculating.  I know, I contradict myself but it seems like it should be quick to try.
Feb 21 04:16:50 <brolin_empey> Why did the GTA02 use a miniUSB connector instead of a microUSB connector?  So that the USB connector can be through-hole mounted instead of only surface-mounted?  I do not know how the USB connector on the GTA02 is mounted but the microUSB connector on at least the N900 is only surface-mounted.
Feb 21 04:19:39 <brolin_empey> Or because microUSB was less popular/common in 2008 than it is now, assuming that it already existed in 2008?
Feb 21 04:22:04 <brolin_empey> Anyway, the first GTA02 I tried seems to not power on when connected to a USB power supply but without a battery installed.
Feb 21 04:28:15 <brolin_empey> Remember the Bad Old Days when a digital “cellular telephone” prevented the user from using the video console without a SIM installed?  I think Nokia still did that as late as 2005 at least for Series 40.
Feb 21 05:15:47 <brolin_empey> Apparently I do not have a GTA02 battery at home even though I have at least four GTA02 at home.  I guess my friend has some GTA02 batteries, if he still has the Openmoko GTA02 stuff I gave him years ago.
Feb 21 05:23:39 <brolin_empey> Why did Nokia make both the BL-5J and BL-4J batteries when they have close to the same capacity?
Feb 21 05:25:19 <brolin_empey> I still have some Nokia BL-5J and maybe at least one BL-4J batteries but I do not remember if these batteries can be used for the GTA02?
Feb 21 06:52:34 <DocScrutinizer05> because microUSB was less popular/common in 2008
Feb 21 06:53:24 <KotCzarny> it's a pity they've abandoned miniusb
Feb 21 06:53:36 <KotCzarny> it feels much sturdier than micro
Feb 21 06:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ~batteryfaq
Feb 21 06:53:51 <infobot> i guess batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers
Feb 21 10:47:00 <pkill9_> I too some photos and they show up in the photos app, but i can't find them in file manager or using `ls` in terminal, or when mounted on my pC, even after a restart
Feb 21 10:52:19 <sicelo> pkill9_: /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM ?
Feb 21 10:54:05 <sicelo> or, cat /home/user/.config/user-dirs.dirs in case somehow yours is set for different paths
Feb 21 10:55:16 <pkill9_> ah found them, it saved them to my sd card
Feb 21 10:55:51 <pkill9_> specifically, the boot partition of my SD card, lol
Feb 21 10:56:04 <sicelo> :P
Feb 21 11:10:54 <jon_y> ~emmc
Feb 21 11:10:54 <infobot> emmc is, like, is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2
Feb 21 11:30:56 <mike727> Putting the N900 back together, after successfully unblocking the slider-mechanism. Before putting the last 4 phillip screws on, it seems the screen part wants to pring back out. Is this strange?
Feb 21 11:31:14 <mike727> *spring
Feb 21 11:41:15 <mike727> ha, that lip goes under the keyboard (I had dissasembled it a few months back)
Feb 21 11:47:24 <mike727> I used lots of "CO contact cleaner". There is now white blotches all around the edge of the screen (wonder if this is permanent)
Feb 21 11:58:29 <mike727> https://imghost.io/images/2018/02/21/21022018077.jpg
Feb 21 11:58:59 <mike727> could I have damaged the connector/ribbon?
Feb 21 12:10:44 <KotCzarny> more like something got between screen layers
Feb 21 12:12:40 <KotCzarny> you probably overdid the cleaning
Feb 21 12:13:00 <KotCzarny> use it as it is and look for new screen ;)
Feb 21 12:13:36 <mike727> live & learn :)
Feb 21 12:13:51 <KotCzarny> i've never cleaned my n900's screen since 2009
Feb 21 12:14:06 <KotCzarny> and only changed screen protector once
Feb 21 12:20:52 <Wizzup> I need to change my protector too...
Feb 21 12:20:57 <Wizzup> it's in a pretty sorry state
Feb 21 12:21:05 <Wizzup> did you just order one from ebay?
Feb 21 12:21:28 <KotCzarny> nah, i had some generic that i just cut down to approximate shape
Feb 21 12:21:42 <Wizzup> ack
Feb 21 12:22:00 <KotCzarny> hard part was keeping screen dustless during the procedure
Feb 21 12:22:18 <KotCzarny> even few tiny specks of dust look bad 
Feb 21 12:22:47 <KotCzarny> winter is nice because there is less dust in the air overall
Feb 21 12:22:49 <sy> top tip: do it in the bathroom and run a super hot shower so stream drags all the dust particles to the floor
Feb 21 12:22:56 <KotCzarny> or that
Feb 21 12:23:29 <KotCzarny> but humidity can have adverse effects on the procedure too
Feb 21 12:24:30 <KotCzarny> those glue-less protectors rely on clean contact between surfaces
Feb 21 12:27:32 <sy> yeah
Feb 21 12:27:46 <sy> positive pressure works too
Feb 21 12:28:12 <sy> put a brick on a bunch of air dusters and line up with the screen
Feb 21 12:28:21 <sy> expensive though
Feb 21 12:28:33 <sy> or pay to get it done in a vacuum
Feb 21 16:41:55 <sicelo> 14:21 < KotCzarny> nah, i had some generic that i just cut down to approximate shape 
Feb 21 16:42:45 <sicelo> ^ do you find that protectors for capacitive screns tends to be thicker than the ones for old resistives?
Feb 21 16:43:30 <sicelo> my daily N900 is badly in need of a protector, but most shops i've been to have thick protectors
Feb 21 16:44:00 <Wizzup> my protector is breaking down badly :) 
Feb 21 16:44:08 <Wizzup> the screen is hard to read at this point ;) 
Feb 21 16:46:06 <sicelo> same here :p
Feb 21 16:46:32 <sicelo> well i can still read mine, but in the sun i have to find a nice angle
Feb 21 17:02:08 <KotCzarny> sicelo: i've used the both i think. didnt notice any difference for n900
Feb 21 17:02:18 <KotCzarny> other than quality and longevity
Feb 21 17:33:08 <sicelo> mm, ok. interesting. i always though the thick oones would perhaps need more pressure to press on, thus reducing accuracy, or stressing the TS
Feb 21 17:37:49 <sicelo> my 3G is so bad .. so many typos :(
Feb 21 18:24:20 <DocScrutinizer05> what sy said: bathroom, shower. Humidity isn't a big problem I guess, you even use soap water to attach large sticky patches to windows
Feb 21 18:25:00 <sy> my phone's waterproof anyway so *shrug*
Feb 21 18:25:14 <sy> although I havent ever been able to apply one properly
Feb 21 18:25:21 <sy> nor have i ever scratched a screen
Feb 21 18:25:55 <sy> well, my nokia came secondhand but it's not a very prized posession, and my actual phone had gorilla 3 glass
Feb 22 00:14:00 <timeless> hi DocScrutinizer05 
Feb 22 00:14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> hi!
Feb 22 00:14:10 * timeless is continuing adventures in remote server hell
Feb 22 00:14:27 <timeless> so, i had a mail server, and a backup, the main server was dying, so i switched us to the backup
Feb 22 00:14:37 <timeless> the backup was dying, so i rebuilt the main server and switched over
Feb 22 00:14:53 <timeless> the main server now runs ubuntu artful
Feb 22 00:15:23 <timeless> i asked the hosts of the backup to rebuild w/ ubuntu lts, but they couldn't, heck, they couldn't even install their preferred thing, they swapped the chassis and left me w/ centos6.9
Feb 22 00:15:46 <DocScrutinizer05> is ubuntu "artful" what came after "zoomin zebra"?
Feb 22 00:15:49 <timeless> so, now i have 2 drives, /sda1 = /boot, /sda2 = swap, /sda3 = / (10GB)
Feb 22 00:16:21 <timeless> i used debootstrap to set up /sdb3 = /mnt (10GB, debian karmic)
Feb 22 00:16:46 <timeless> and used dd + tunefs to clone + re-uuid /sda1 as /sdb1
Feb 22 00:17:13 <timeless> so, now i have a centos (grub097) which is running, and a karmic which i can use in a chroot
Feb 22 00:17:24 <timeless> i installed grub-pc (which is apparently grub2) in the karmic chroot
Feb 22 00:17:45 <timeless> unfortunately, the grub ui / instructions are confusing beyond belief
Feb 22 00:18:33 <timeless> my goal is to try to get sdb1's grub to try to boot sdb3's karmic, and if it fails, to boot sda3's centos69
Feb 22 00:18:43 <timeless> Does that seem like a reasonable goal?
Feb 22 00:20:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I shouldn't answer that since I don't really know, what I can say is I believe grub has no "when it fails, fallback to..." option
Feb 22 00:20:16 * timeless keeps grumbling about not having `lsblk` in karmic
Feb 22 00:20:26 <timeless> grub2 has a fallback option :)
Feb 22 00:21:11 <DocScrutinizer05> lots of people frowned at grub2. I never really looked into it
Feb 22 00:22:59 <timeless> yeah, i've played w/ lilo, grub, and grub2
Feb 22 00:23:09 <timeless> they all suck in various ways, and none of them have great documentation
Feb 22 00:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> from own experience I can tell that systemd cost me more time for debugging and "learning" (compensating any supposed saving in boottime and effort to write startup files aka unit files aka initscripts) than the previous 20 years of sysv-init
Feb 22 00:25:11 <DocScrutinizer05> don't bitch about Lilo!! ;-P Werner Almesberger made it
Feb 22 00:25:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Feb 22 00:25:28 * timeless shrugs
Feb 22 00:25:32 <DocScrutinizer05> hehehe
Feb 22 00:25:32 <timeless> they all have flaws
Feb 22 00:25:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Werner would agree I guess
Feb 22 01:52:51 <timeless> doc: here's my efforts at integrating my centos thing into my ubuntu grub https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LriGK6iP/%2Fetc%2Fgrub.d%2F41_linux_centos
Feb 22 01:53:47 <timeless> And here's what it generated https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZR5MdDWK/%2Fboot%2Fgrub%2Fgrub.cfg
Feb 22 02:43:31 <Juesto> timeless: try using a compatible grub version and use the same /boot ?
Feb 22 02:43:50 <timeless> Juesto: i'm not trying to share a /boot per se
Feb 22 02:43:54 <Juesto> i mean, what's the thing
Feb 22 02:44:19 <timeless> i have a system (centos), and i want to boot into an untested ubuntu
Feb 22 02:44:23 <Juesto> you should if not already. unless you plan to keep in separate disks in which case just switch boots
Feb 22 02:44:33 <timeless> if it works, i'm happy, if it fails, i want it to fall back to the other one
Feb 22 02:44:33 <Juesto> then boot into ubuntu without modifying your centos grub
Feb 22 02:44:46 <Juesto> then put a if
Feb 22 02:44:54 <Juesto> and do it manually
Feb 22 02:45:04 <timeless> manually? this is a server i have no physical access to
Feb 22 02:45:14 <timeless> if it doesn't boot, and reboots to the same doesn't boot, i'm screwed
Feb 22 02:45:28 <Juesto> then set the default to the centos one
Feb 22 02:45:32 <Juesto> or viceversa
Feb 22 02:45:47 <Juesto> you want to change defaults instead
Feb 22 02:46:16 <timeless> all i want is something that explains how to get this system to boot once to ubuntu, and if it fails, to boot to centos
Feb 22 02:46:17 <Juesto> which grub it is?
Feb 22 02:46:32 <timeless> this is 2 (1.97 karmic)
Feb 22 02:47:00 <Juesto> but then if it boots but then has problems afterwards it's no use to do grub fallbacks
Feb 22 02:48:27 <Juesto> timeless: see https://serverfault.com/questions/614186/is-there-a-way-to-create-a-one-time-boot-entry-in-grub  https://www.centos.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=60220 https://askubuntu.com/questions/731830/grub2-fallback-with-14-04-need-how-to
Feb 22 02:48:46 <Juesto> the former is legacy related but well, its what i looked
Feb 22 02:49:10 <timeless> Yeah, i've read all three of those today (w/in the last couple of hours)
Feb 22 02:49:54 <Juesto> this too https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Troubleshooting ?
Feb 22 02:51:03 <Juesto> regardless, if you're just testing imo its better to not place a grub entry
Feb 22 02:51:42 <timeless> that last one seems useless, i don't have a console
Feb 22 02:52:29 <Juesto> is it not a vps vm?
Feb 22 02:52:49 <timeless> no, it's a baremetal hosted box
Feb 22 02:53:01 <timeless> from a vendor who doesn't want to host baremetal
Feb 22 02:53:17 <Juesto> any kind of remote management?
Feb 22 02:53:46 <Juesto> and this is why you dont test on production servers and such
Feb 22 02:54:00 * timeless nods
Feb 22 02:54:17 <timeless> right now this is a "nascent" box that was just "barely rebuilt" to have a basic os
Feb 22 02:54:34 <Juesto> either have physical access or some form of system remote management
Feb 22 02:55:41 <timeless> In the medium term, i'd like to move the box to some other host (probably EC2)
Feb 22 02:55:55 <Juesto> then do that before attempting any further tests
Feb 22 02:56:20 <Juesto> note: ##linux is a better place for this. just saying
Feb 22 02:57:33 <timeless> the server management options i have are: "reboot", "power on", and "os reload"
Feb 22 02:57:53 <Juesto> sucks
Feb 22 02:58:03 <timeless> i didn't choose this vendor / solution
Feb 22 02:58:08 <timeless> they're pretty awful
Feb 22 02:58:19 <timeless> and they don't want to support it, they'd rather we use VMs too
Feb 22 02:59:13 <Juesto> anyways, #centos, #ubuntu
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 22 03:00:04 2018