**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 15 03:00:02 2018
May 15 04:22:13 <brolin_empey> So, I received a spam mail message written in German but sent to my .be mail address meant to be from a young woman with an attached photograph of her nude and holding some model of Apple iPhone or iPod Touch in front of a mirror.  Is she some type of forbidden fruit, pun intended?
May 15 04:26:29 <brolin_empey> The Icon of Sin (iOS)?
May 15 10:31:15 <Maxdamantus> 23:04:16 < Wizzup> another overhyped nonsense thing :) 
May 15 10:31:21 <Maxdamantus> Wonder if that came from HN.
May 15 10:31:55 <Wizzup> ?
May 15 10:31:59 <Maxdamantus> Looked at it last night regarding that issue, and it was just a bunch of people seeming to claim that it's not really a security issue, blah blah blah
May 15 10:32:39 <Maxdamantus> The general position seems to have reversed there, so the upvoted comments are the ones that actually fairly explain how it is a problem.
May 15 10:32:48 <Wizzup> no, I stand by this
May 15 10:34:59 <Maxdamantus> That the default behaviour of major email clients such as Thunderbird and iOS pretty much allowing an XSS-style MITM attack to extract decrypted messages is not an issue?
May 15 10:35:06 <Maxdamantus> (and where the behaviour is pretty much standardised)
May 15 10:35:31 <KotCzarny> only i you use them
May 15 10:35:32 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 10:36:12 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, that's probably the main argument against it being considered a *serious* issue.
May 15 10:36:12 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: "OpenPGP broken"
May 15 10:36:30 <Wizzup> "Stop sending encrypted emails"
May 15 10:36:36 <Wizzup> I didn't have to change a darn thing in my setup.
May 15 10:36:47 <Wizzup> html email is broken - news at 11.
May 15 10:37:28 <Maxdamantus> "I didn't have to change a darn thing"
May 15 10:37:31 <Maxdamantus> It's not about you.
May 15 10:37:37 <Maxdamantus> It's about people who read your emails.
May 15 10:37:51 <Wizzup> I do not send html emails.
May 15 10:38:05 <Maxdamantus> Okay, so it's about people who read other people's encrypted emails then.
May 15 10:38:33 <Maxdamantus> "It doesn't affect me" isn't a very strong argument against a standard system being broken.
May 15 10:39:13 <Wizzup> I reject that html emails were ever a good idea. And the paper said they broke openpgp. When in fact their exploit had nothing to do with openpgp
May 15 10:39:26 <Wizzup> just with crappy/buggy mail clients/plugins that didn't check for gnupg errors.
May 15 10:39:39 <Maxdamantus> The problem doesn't care that you think it's a bad idea.
May 15 10:39:42 <Wizzup> They tried to hype it to get media attention.
May 15 10:39:54 <Wizzup> And that is plain stupid.
May 15 10:39:54 <Maxdamantus> It's a problem regardless of what you think about HTML emails.
May 15 10:40:07 <Maxdamantus> I don't like Windows. Doesn't mean its security issues are not important.
May 15 10:40:17 <Wizzup> Yes, and I can still have an opinion about the release, how it was released, and how it was way over hyped for what it actually does
May 15 10:40:35 <Wizzup> no key retrieval, no RCE, just being able to inject some crap in s/mime because it sucks
May 15 10:40:43 <Wizzup> (and then read singular emails)
May 15 10:40:48 <Wizzup> update sw, done.
May 15 10:40:55 <Wizzup> No need to say "STOP USING ALL ENCRYPTED EMAIL NOW"
May 15 10:40:58 <Wizzup> Gee, thanks EFF.
May 15 10:41:04 <Wizzup> anyway
May 15 10:41:07 <Wizzup> I need to do work :) 
May 15 10:43:26 <KotCzarny> still, it's about damage fallout
May 15 10:43:41 <KotCzarny> windoze has a lots of bugs and exploits are higly rated/news'ed
May 15 10:44:38 <KotCzarny> i dont use windowze, right, but i one starts getting banged by windoze botnet, no such thing as a 'not my problem'
May 15 10:44:59 <KotCzarny> in emails case, it's about things you (generic you), would like to keep secret
May 15 10:45:47 <KotCzarny> s/i/if
May 15 10:46:05 <APic> ☹
May 15 10:47:57 <KotCzarny> think: national security etc
May 15 11:18:05 <KotCzarny> offtopic but..: https://digitalsynopsis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/css-puns-web-design-funny-jokes-33.jpg
May 15 11:26:36 <inz> Is this some kind of beauty is in the eye of the beholder meta-joke?
May 15 11:26:53 <KotCzarny> yup. niche joke
May 15 12:51:51 <DocScrutinizer05> haha https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/17/linux_4_13_rc1/
May 15 12:53:34 <KotCzarny> kinda old story, isnt it
May 15 12:54:43 <APic> Linus is fucking bribable
May 15 12:54:46 <APic> Even xkcd got that
May 15 12:55:09 <KotCzarny> isnt that art saying opposite?
May 15 12:55:52 <DocScrutinizer05> APic: huh?
May 15 12:56:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I can assure you none of Devuan devels bribed Linus to think systemd is crap
May 15 12:57:29 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a simple fact
May 15 13:05:06 <sicelo> iirc Linus doesn't use any de**an anyway
May 15 13:20:50 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: https://protonmail.com/blog/pgp-vulnerability-efail/
May 15 13:29:43 <Maxdamantus> Wizzup: they complain about descriptions then say "ProtonMail is not impacted by the Efail PGP vulnerabilities"
May 15 13:29:49 <DocScrutinizer05> it doesn't matter which distro you use
May 15 13:30:38 <Maxdamantus> If you're sending mail to people with insecure email clients, you are impacted.
May 15 13:30:58 <bencoh> somehow, yeah
May 15 13:31:38 <Maxdamantus> If anyone technical looks into the exploit, sure, they can see it's not to do with PGP itself.
May 15 13:31:50 <Maxdamantus> but how typical email clients use PGP.
May 15 13:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> a 15 or 20 years ago I ported editors from some linux to HPUX (iirc) since their editor sucked. Didn't matter back when since *nix = *nix
May 15 13:33:11 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: yes, if someone uses ssh1 or windows 2000, they might also be impacted
May 15 13:33:14 <Wizzup> superb analysis :P 
May 15 13:33:23 <Maxdamantus> Wizzup: which is practically noone.
May 15 13:33:30 <Wizzup> exactly
May 15 13:33:48 <KotCzarny> i suspect there are a lot more people using win2k than n900
May 15 13:33:52 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 13:33:59 <Maxdamantus> I can think of at least a couple of people that use Thunderbird or iOS email.
May 15 13:34:16 <Maxdamantus> and I'm guessing there are hundreds of millions more.
May 15 13:34:31 <DocScrutinizer05> until sick suckers like Poettering explicitly say "fsck POSIX, fsck poartbility, linux shall grow up and divert from *nix compatibility" - then he introduced systemd which can't get ported to a huge number of other unixes and forcefed that crap down everybody's throat
May 15 13:34:40 <Maxdamantus> anyway, sleep
May 15 13:35:07 <KotCzarny> sleep at 3pm? funky
May 15 13:35:13 <Maxdamantus> Wed May 16 01:35:13 NZST 2018
May 15 13:35:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ugt
May 15 13:35:21 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 13:35:21 <infobot> well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
May 15 13:35:27 <KotCzarny> i know, joking on purpose
May 15 13:37:31 <APic> 😸
May 15 13:38:06 <APic> Well
May 15 13:38:13 <APic> Maybe xkcd was joking 😉
May 15 13:38:25 <APic> My Problem is that i take every Joke very serious 😉
May 15 13:39:06 <DocScrutinizer05> (then he introduced systemd) the result longterm will be that linux can't use any code from other unixes and other unixes can't use linux apps
May 15 13:45:29 <DocScrutinizer05> (porting editor) it was nedit iirc, and the only thing that didn't work "ootb" was their silly 5k chars long helptext strings that the HPUX cc barfed up upon
May 15 15:32:55 <sicelo> parazyd: if it's not too much trouble, please build iodine for armel in devuan repos
May 15 17:30:53 <rhombus> So, since about noon today, my N900 no longer sees any mobile networks.
May 15 17:31:35 <rhombus> I don't recall changing anything; I've tried restarting the device numerous times, even removed the battery twice, no improvement.
May 15 17:32:00 <rhombus> I've switched between "Dual", "3G" and "GSM" modes, also without effect.
May 15 17:32:16 <rhombus> Does this mean the phone is dead?
May 15 17:33:06 <rhombus> Or could it be the SIM? It does still detect a SIM and prompts me for a PIN when I restart. The SIM is pretty old by now, probably seven years. I haven't tested it in another device yet.
May 15 17:33:38 <KotCzarny> did you try reinserting sim?
May 15 17:33:58 <KotCzarny> does it say 'telephony functions are unavailable' ?
May 15 17:37:33 <sixwheeledbeast> ^
May 15 17:38:20 <sixwheeledbeast> Do you have a red line through the SIM icon?
May 15 17:38:36 <rhombus> sixwheeledbeast: no
May 15 17:38:39 <sixwheeledbeast> Can you try the SIM in something else
May 15 17:38:47 <rhombus> KotCzarny: I did try reinserting the SIM
May 15 17:39:11 <rhombus> sixwheeledbeast: I will ask a friend if I can test it in her device
May 15 17:39:14 <KotCzarny> when you go to settings -> networks -> manual, does it see any network?
May 15 17:39:48 <sixwheeledbeast> Sounds more likely a SIM issue from what you say. It may have been disabled by the operator?
May 15 17:40:04 <rhombus> KotCzarny: Where is "Networks" in Settings?
May 15 17:40:14 <KotCzarny> well, settings -> phone -> networks -> networks selection 
May 15 17:40:28 <rhombus> KotCzarny: Ah, ok, I was wondering :)
May 15 17:40:53 <rhombus> "Searching"
May 15 17:41:01 <rhombus> This does not look good :(
May 15 17:41:05 <KotCzarny> report if it find anything
May 15 17:41:09 <KotCzarny> dont select any
May 15 17:41:23 <sixwheeledbeast> PAYG operators often disable SIMs if unused for a period of time.
May 15 17:41:26 <KotCzarny> and finding networks can take few tens of seconds
May 15 17:42:01 <rhombus> sixwheeledbeast: I use this phone all the time and I'm adding money to the account every 4 to 8 weeks
May 15 17:42:16 <rhombus> KotCzarny: Ah! I see three 3G networks now!
May 15 17:42:21 <KotCzarny> also, make sure your phone mode is set to dual
May 15 17:42:47 <KotCzarny> if any of them is your home network, you can try setting it as manual
May 15 17:42:49 <rhombus> KotCzarny: Why does it need to be dual?
May 15 17:43:00 <sixwheeledbeast> Is it normally done with outbound calls, inbound or top ups don't count.
May 15 17:43:11 <KotCzarny> rhombus: in case your network is the one you didnt select
May 15 17:43:12 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 15 17:43:17 <rhombus> I go to the drug store :)
May 15 17:43:20 <KotCzarny> with dual it looks for both 2g and 3g
May 15 17:43:37 <rhombus> After it stopped working, it did not seem to matter whether I switched to dual, 3G or GSM
May 15 17:43:54 <KotCzarny> ok, then go now to home screen and check if you are connected now
May 15 17:44:11 <rhombus> KotCzarny: Ok, now I tried to access the network, and I get a yellow warning stripe saying "No access"
May 15 17:45:47 <rhombus> This really is starting to seem like a bad SIM
May 15 17:46:51 <KotCzarny> :)
May 15 17:47:15 <enyc> talking of N900's, intersted in maemo/fremantle users feedback on  https://ec2.sheer.us/~enyc/n900-kbd/  please =)
May 15 17:47:32 <KotCzarny> you can try your wife's wim to confirm
May 15 17:48:15 <rhombus> KotCzarny: right, good idea :)
May 15 17:50:24 <KotCzarny> s/wim/sim
May 15 17:51:06 <KotCzarny> or you can use your wife's phone to contact your operator and check what's up
May 15 18:23:16 <rhombus> ok, I'll report back. Thanks for the tips!
May 15 18:27:04 <KotCzarny> pastebin more
May 15 18:27:15 <KotCzarny> actual problem is higher
May 15 18:28:11 <KotCzarny> there is a chance for mmc error
May 15 18:28:15 <KotCzarny> or full fs
May 15 18:28:49 <KotCzarny> oops. wrong chan
May 15 22:44:54 <DocScrutinizer05> "no access" never seen, must be bad APN
May 15 22:45:27 <DocScrutinizer05> or wait, maybe operator rejected login
May 16 02:02:23 <Oksana> Question: Does Modest have configuration somewhere for how it opens multipart emails? 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 16 03:00:11 2018