**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 28 03:00:03 2018 May 28 07:51:23 I successfully used the “Generic IBM Graphics 9pin” printer driver/model on Windows 10 for x86-64 to print a Windows Printer Test Page on normal paper in my dot-matrix impact computer printer from the 1980s. :-D I wonder if Windows 1.x supports this printer too? May 28 08:11:45 waw :D May 28 08:11:51 +1 nerdcredz brolin_empey May 28 10:32:08 Time to see just how far I can get with compiling the Firefox 24 source code in the Fremantle dev environment. May 28 10:40:35 ohmy May 28 10:40:43 are you sure you want to do that? May 28 10:41:24 That's the whole point of the work I am doing May 28 10:41:34 Presumably he just means in the SDK, not on the device. May 28 10:41:45 I said Fremantle dev environment May 28 10:42:03 I am not stupid enough to try and compile anything (much less Gecko) on an actual N900 May 28 10:42:33 don't worry, I didn't implied you meant to build on device :) May 28 10:43:11 The whole point of what I am doing is to update microb-engine to something newer, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=100296 May 28 10:43:45 FF24 is the best choice since its the first version to have TLS 1.2 support (the key feature I want) but its old enough that it predates the "remove all Maemo support from the Mozilla tree" commit May 28 10:47:41 in terms of UIs, I think conkeror is pretty suitable for N900, runs on versions up to the major release a few months ago. May 28 10:48:26 but when I looked into it years ago, I couldn't get it to run smoothly on xulrunner-24 in a debian chroot. May 28 10:48:45 iirc it ran smoothly on microb-xulrunner, but that was a bit glitchy. May 28 10:49:32 Well, not so much smoothly, but memory efficiently. May 28 10:58:15 And of course my attempt to build the Firefox 24.8.1 ESR codebase fails right away with a Python syntax error (probably because the ancient 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m5 Python version in Scratchbox is too old) May 28 11:03:00 Ok, found a newer version of Python (2.5.4-1maemo6), lets see what that does. May 28 11:10:24 Yeah looks like we need Python 2.7 for this May 28 11:17:10 Looks like we have most of the dependencies listed on the "linux prerequisites" page dated back to the release of FF 24, its just Python that is out-of-date May 28 11:20:14 why python to build FF? May 28 11:20:29 Parts of the build system are written in Python May 28 11:20:34 ohmy May 28 11:21:28 Looks like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91341 has Python 2.7 build instructions so we should be good on that. May 28 11:23:58 and now I see python 2.7 is in extras-devel. May 28 11:24:06 So I will see if I can grab that. May 28 11:32:26 ok, that worked. May 28 11:33:35 Great, now I need GCC 4.4 :( May 28 11:34:52 is that a problem? 4.7.2 should be available May 28 11:35:09 and newer ones, but 4.7.2 is available for sdk too May 28 11:35:27 beware of 4.6, it's buggy May 28 11:37:12 Where do I get 4.7.2 for the SDK and what other bits do I need to get to make that work (and what, if anything, would I need to upgrade on my N900 itself as a result of upgrading the SDK to 4.7.2?) May 28 11:38:15 http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 May 28 11:38:44 and yes, using thumb is probably very good idea for firefox May 28 11:39:55 I want to make it so the results of my work can be installed on top of an N900 with current CSSU-testing installed with as few things to install as possible May 28 11:40:11 Especially I don't want something that requires a new kernel if I can avoid it May 28 11:40:22 i compile oscp with 4.7.2 May 28 11:41:07 though i glue in libstdc statically because i dont want to create any new dependencies May 28 11:41:43 and yes, oscp works even on stock img afair May 28 11:45:12 Static linking probably isn't viable for Firefox. May 28 11:45:24 only for libstdc, not for everything May 28 11:45:34 but again, try building it first, worry later May 28 11:46:03 you can probably just drop in that lib into ff tree and start with LD_LIBRARY_PATH May 28 11:46:23 assuming it uses c++ at all May 28 11:46:46 FF is pretty much ALL C++ :) May 28 11:46:51 :) May 28 11:47:06 then yeah, what i've said above applies May 28 11:52:28 I dont think statically linking libstdc++ is going to work for Firefox since it passes things across binary boundaries and is likely built with the assumption that every binary in the process is talking to the same libstdc++ code May 28 11:52:49 In any case once I get something that builds I can worry about finding a non-thumb version of the GCC 4.7 libs at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/pool/free/g/gcc-4.7/ May 28 12:05:11 brolin_empey: i'm not sure original windows even was aware of printers per-se, applications did their own thing to talk to lpt1 and all that =) May 28 12:09:03 Wikipedia says that Windows 1.0 did include printer drivers May 28 12:09:42 o dear ;p May 28 12:35:29 I think its a good idea to document the exact steps I am taking when I setup the build environment for the FF 24 code so that other people can reproduce what I am doing. May 28 12:37:37 definitely May 28 13:08:45 lol May 28 13:59:26 ok, now I have hit another snag. Looks like I need cairo 1.10 but I cant find anything newer than 1.8.8 for Fremantle. May 28 14:01:34 jonwil: try debian? i think cairo wasn't modified by nokia? May 28 14:01:56 you can literally download any package from any repository :) May 28 14:02:02 . . . May 28 14:02:09 Juesto: seriously ... May 28 14:02:31 bencoh: What? May 28 14:03:03 ugh... May 28 14:04:00 Definitely something Nokia specific in there, the string HILDON__DONT_USE_THIS_ONE__CAIRO_CONTENT_COLOR16 shows up. May 28 14:04:33 oh okay, then i guess modify a newer cairo and compile :) May 28 14:05:29 or, does whatever needs cairo 1.10 actually use it's features? perhaps it could be backported to 1.8.8 May 28 14:09:59 The way to go I guess is to do a "blame" on the configure.in file and see what commit bumped the Cairo version (and from there figure out why we need 1.10) May 28 14:13:10 :) May 28 14:15:35 Hrrm... rebuilding firefox // some sort of browser _in_ maemo is one thing... May 28 14:16:07 What about updated devuan armhf chroot image, and making that firefox/minature-browsers appear on the main x-server efficiently .... ??? May 28 14:16:32 Devuan ascii armhf chroot image, aiui should be do-able ontop of maemo armel or so...? May 28 14:17:48 Ok so its clear the Debian packaging for Cairo was created by Nokia and not by Debian ir anyone else. May 28 14:19:54 So the way to solve the problem is to forward-port all the bits to Cairo 1.10 and use that. May 28 14:32:03 Or possibly just to figure out what those local bits actually DO and then figure out if using in-tree Cairo is safe or not. May 28 14:34:47 :) May 28 19:13:15 i wonder if N900 won't suffocate with RAM on FF24 ... May 28 19:13:29 it will :) May 28 19:13:38 :> May 28 19:13:46 * sicelo puts it on record that the backs the FF24 efforts May 28 19:13:52 wouldnt be worse than fennec, i guess May 28 19:14:03 but so will microb do, if you try to open some heavy site May 28 19:14:13 s/the/he/ May 28 19:14:51 will be interesting to see. fennec-17 relates to which FF version? May 28 19:15:14 i would guess to firefox 17 May 28 19:19:56 makes sense, yes May 28 19:20:13 in fact, newer firefox probably uses -less ram- May 28 19:21:08 that changes around firefox 34 i think May 28 19:21:27 i think there was some big change that replaced whole gtk ui with xul one May 28 19:21:44 not sure about exact moment when it happend May 28 19:25:57 Wizzup: sorry to intrude, but actually, from my experience, since 57, while not unusable, FF is very very very difficult to use on a laptop with 512Mo May 28 19:26:20 I had to go back to 52 ESR May 28 19:26:26 that too May 28 19:27:06 while their engine got faster, they also started multiprocess, which means mem usage quadrupled on quad core May 28 19:34:59 oh, I use only fx 52 May 28 19:35:03 haven't tried newer May 28 19:35:21 not recommended May 28 19:35:41 unless you are prepared to cutomize your experience with extensions May 28 19:36:04 *customize May 28 19:37:56 hehe May 28 19:38:22 if you dont rely on extension, then, yeah, go for it May 28 19:38:29 *extensions May 28 19:40:06 i use the latest one in debian sid .. have 1GB RAM on X40. not using extensions May 28 19:40:41 what is latest in sid? May 28 19:41:30 i have 1.5gb of ram in my x40, yet ff57 often goes suicidal on mem and starts swapping like hell May 28 19:41:38 * Wizzup has no swap May 28 19:41:42 prefer to see something killed May 28 19:41:53 tbh i browse lots of imgur in random mode May 28 19:42:05 and most likely x/ff caches them too much May 28 19:42:24 just checked, 60.0.1 works ok for me. May 28 19:42:25 wizzup: i prefer having swap to see when ff goes haywire May 28 19:42:34 60 is a bit old i think May 28 19:43:05 could be May 28 19:43:19 61b9 is out May 28 22:52:11 ok, that's got Cairo 1.10 sorted (turns out the one local Maemo patch to Cairo 1.8.8 is already in Cairo 1.10 and we can just tell Firefox to use the in-tree Cairo without problems) as well as the right version of libstdc++6 and libgcc1, now lets see how far it gets with the build May 28 23:05:07 After disabling elfhack (some new feature in Firefox that doesn't seem to work on Fremantle) its actually compiling(!) May 29 02:40:36 I think this beast might actually compile. May 29 02:41:15 Of course it doesn't appear that I have gotten as far as any of the GTK stuff yet. May 29 02:58:00 enyc: Printer support is part of the device independence and Graphics Device Interface (GDI) of Windows from the beginning. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 29 03:00:04 2018