**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 11 03:00:01 2018 Aug 11 03:26:56 App manager, faster app manager, apt-get, aptitude and http://maemo.org/packages all allow to search for software Aug 11 03:42:36 Hellmann's chocolate cake recipe smells wonderful, by the way. Despite mayonnaise being best before 7th of May 2018, the unopened packaging preserved it well. Aug 11 07:02:13 chocolate cake with mayo? o.O Aug 11 07:13:11 I thought it would be neat to write a program (for Android because that is what I currently use but I guess it could be done for Maemo too) that checks every time the current cell (in the cellular network) changes to see if the user has entered their home/work/school/whatever cell, then either asks the user if they want to try connecting to the Wireless LAN at home/work/school/whatever or automatically tries to connect to the Wireless LAN at said site. Aug 11 07:13:11 Assuming that the user always or usually has the celluar modem enabled, this has the benefit of not putting an additional load on the battery by using the satellite navigation receiver and minimises the ability of the user to be tracked by their Wireless LAN MAC address by someone monitoring Wireless LAN traffic. As far as I know, the usual way a mobile operating system is able to automatically connect to known Wireless LANs is by periodically performing a Aug 11 07:13:11 site survey to check if any of the known Wireless LANs to which the user wants to automatically connect are visible but this has the disadvantages of increased load on the battery and apparently the ability of someone monitoring Wireless LAN traffic to see the names (SSIDs) of the Wireless LANs to which the user wants to automatically connect and also to track the user by their Wireless LAN MAC address. Aug 11 07:14:43 Possibly s/minimises/reduces/ . Aug 11 07:17:33 Actually, it seems that at least on Android OS 4.x, the mobile OS periodically tries to connect to a Wireless LAN (associate with an AP in infrastructure mode, I guess) with the name (SSID) of the Wireless LAN to which the user wants to automatically connect. Aug 11 07:21:29 In 2015, I attended an event (not actually a technology event) where someone had airsnort or airsnort-ng or something similarly named running on a notebook computer monitoring Wireless LAN traffic that saw my handheld computer running Android OS 4.2 or 4.4 automatically trying to connect to my Wireless LAN at home and automatically created a fake/spoof Access Point with the same name (SSID). My handheld computer seemed to not be fooled into connecting to Aug 11 07:21:29 the fake Wireless LAN, though, presumably because of the authentication (WPA2 PSK). Aug 11 07:29:34 My program idea also assumes that the user has cellular service or at least has a SIM that works for emergency calls (if that will suffice to get the numeric identifier of the current cell) and assumes that the user has cellular coverage at the sites of interest and assumes that the size of the cells covering the sites of interest are not too large. Oh, and it assumes that the home of the user is covered by a different cell than the work/school/whatever of Aug 11 07:29:34 the user. Aug 11 07:30:57 Well, more generally it assumes that each of the sites of interest is covered by a cell with a unique identifer. Aug 11 07:49:22 interesting read. My latest achievement was to hack new "message received" sound to purple :D Aug 11 08:15:09 KotCzarny : yes, tastes different from our usual chocolate cakes (based on sour cream). Aug 11 08:16:26 Wikiwide: keep in mind, any food belonging to 'sweets' category should be avoided. they rarely provide any nutrition, only calories and hunger inducing chemicals Aug 11 08:16:57 brolin_emprey : it's two separate tasks. One task is add cellular towers into geolocation, another task is to trigger WiFi connections by geographical location. Aug 11 08:29:05 KotCzarny : Good point. Sometimes we bake rye bread (or white bread). But chocolate cake was the only recipe that showed up on the Internet when I was looking for baking with mayonnaise. Aug 11 08:30:16 :) Aug 11 08:30:23 Apologies for interruptions. WiFi signal is weak. Is it possible that kernel settings not being loaded on Nokia N900 due to unexpected reboot are a cause? Aug 11 08:30:42 really, mayo was only invented to cover putrid aroma/taste of bad eggs Aug 11 08:32:26 Mayonnaise is ancient, going by Wikipedia. But it is well possible that combination of raw eggs and olive oil in butter produces better results than putting mayonnaise in? Aug 11 08:32:52 s/butter/batter/ Aug 11 08:32:53 Wikiwide meant: Mayonnaise is ancient, going by Wikipedia. But it is well possible that combination of raw eggs and olive oil in batter produces better results than putting mayonnaise in? Aug 11 08:52:55 brolin_empey: If you don't have any hidden SSID's on your device, you would be less identifiable. Aug 11 08:55:39 You are then only listening for the correct SSID to connect, instead of calling out for "HiddenSSIDfoo". Your unique list of Hidden SSID's would then make you identifiable Aug 11 08:58:03 Listening for SSIDs eats battery? Aug 11 08:58:58 That's why he would like to use low-power-consumption "connected to tower" to estimate when it would be beneficial to listen for SSIDs? Aug 11 08:59:00 Well that is how auto-connect "check every x mins" would work Aug 11 08:59:48 Calling out for HiddenSSID eats battery _and_ reveals private info, yes. Aug 11 09:01:09 Ideally, SSID-modem would have his own smart ways to "switch on" only when there are humans inside the building/apartment, instead of being available to long-nosed sniffers 24/7. Aug 11 09:01:35 But that's question for modem software, not for Nokia N900. Aug 11 09:04:32 The idea may work, however CID's cannot be guaranteed. I can have seen 3 different CID's sat in the same place for example. Aug 11 09:05:47 Cellular ID? Unless towers move around on vans, shouldn't there be the same ID all the time? Aug 11 09:06:56 Also data consumes more power than wifi, I would prefer to switch modem off and leave wifi on Aug 11 09:07:15 UCID, right? Looking at cell tower info. Aug 11 09:07:29 I am expecting that data is off. Aug 11 09:07:42 Only basic cellular (calls, SMS) is on. Aug 11 09:08:08 And wifi is only available at certain places, like University or home. Aug 11 09:08:48 And cellular is used as fast and approximate geolocator to trigger WiFi network search. Aug 11 09:09:25 Dust it, MyDocs are full, again! Aug 11 09:09:48 I am in the middle of 3 towers, depending on weather, maintenance, Dual/2G and the direction I come from. I have seen 3 different cells. Aug 11 09:11:34 Oh, that's fine. Is it accurate enough to differentiate between home, workplace, and a point midway between them? Or does the same tower cover all the area? Aug 11 09:12:55 It would depend on where you are going, if the local village or pub it would be the same cell for example Aug 11 09:14:06 Huh, I have half an hour walking distance between home and Uni, and yet I expect different towers. Aug 11 09:16:18 This cell is the least reliable due to being over utilised and mounted low in a electrical pylon, bad weather etc would cause you to use the next villages cell depending on which side of village you are. Aug 11 09:17:30 It's crowded here, so I expect cellular towers to provide more precise geolocation than in a rural area. Aug 11 09:24:45 Another cell nearby is 3G/4G only for example. Not rural but not urban either. I would call it the English definition of Suburb (not Aussie, which is more like a neighbourhood/borough over here) Aug 11 10:02:40 2G was switched off entirely here, so there is no choice - 3G always. Aug 11 10:09:27 did you switch radio to use 3g only? Aug 11 10:09:37 otherwise it also scans 2g freqs Aug 11 10:10:10 Should check, thank you :-) Aug 11 10:10:30 there is a band switch applet for systray Aug 11 10:14:05 Yes, but I am checking in Settings > Phone. Yes, it's 3G, not Dual, already. Aug 11 10:17:52 There is no need for the tray applet if you have no benefit switching it on or off. Aug 11 10:18:23 Exactly... Aug 11 10:18:32 for me it's useful Aug 11 10:19:30 I also find it useful, especially with the mast situation locally. Aug 11 10:20:14 Moving fritzing-data from /usr/share (rootfs?) to MyDocs is a pain. Especially when file transfer is interrupted mid-way by lack of space on MyDocs. Aug 11 10:21:22 use copy + remove instead of mv? Aug 11 10:21:46 Not all fritzing-data for now - just parts. I am wary of moving "bins" directory. Aug 11 10:22:03 shouldnt it be installed to /opt then? Aug 11 10:22:18 Nay, managed with mv x/* x, rmdir and such. Manual recursion. Aug 11 10:23:33 Opt could be good, but I am of opinion that databases as large as list of possible electric parts for Fritzing, or list of stars and planets for Stellarium, should be stored in MyDocs. Just like tiles for map. Aug 11 10:25:00 you should probably take source package and finetune bins/data prefixes in build script Aug 11 10:25:15 maemo-optify tool? Aug 11 10:25:51 https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Aug 11 10:26:14 also https://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem Aug 11 10:26:14 isnt optifier for source packages anyway? Aug 11 10:26:32 ~listkeys opt Aug 11 10:26:33 Factoid search of 'opt' by key (13 of 68): #maemo-ssu optional ;; .gnugpg/options ;; acanoptic ;; auctoptions ;; cssu-optional ;; emulate optix ;; helicopter88 ;; html

;; i'll include it as an option under dhcp. this ;; jargon non-optimal solution ;; kde optimizations ;; kernel options for dhcp ;; lartlooptest. Aug 11 10:26:43 Fritzing parts on MyDocs is said to be 232MB. And yet, on rootfs I have only 58MB free, and 82MB available on home. So how was Fritzing-data storing its parts before I moved it to MyDocs? Aug 11 10:27:51 Yes, fine-tuning sounds good. In distant future. Aug 11 10:28:33 As in, I don't know which program is better suited for such porting - fritzing, kicad or tkgate or ... Aug 11 10:29:42 maybe it was autooptified on install Aug 11 10:30:01 remove pkg and reinstall, then observe what is happening Aug 11 10:37:37 How do I know number of files in a directory? Aug 11 10:38:52 Because Fat32 has like 32kb minimum file size, so with large number of small files... Like, three thousand files or so... 96MB might get added? Aug 11 10:40:40 find . -type f|wc -l Aug 11 10:41:07 and if you want to find real used size (with overhead) use du Aug 11 10:41:57 3533 files, 232MB Aug 11 10:46:29 / is not a link/re-direction, /usr - same, /usr/share - same, /usr/share/fritzing - same. How does auto-optification work? Aug 11 10:49:30 Because fritzing is from wheezy, it wasn't packaged for fremantle yet. Aug 11 10:50:55 /usr/share/vim is optified, for example - link is visible. Aug 11 10:56:23 refer to wiki pages about the topic, i havent used it Aug 11 11:00:26 also, fat32 has variable block size Aug 11 11:00:56 unless you mean 'mydocs is vfat with 32kb block' Aug 11 11:01:07 /me dutifully edits /var/lib/dpkg/ to keep the package up-to-date with new locations of manually moved files Aug 11 11:01:37 Something like that, yes. I don't quite understand filesystems. Aug 11 11:06:35 .list and .md5sums, that's it, I think, for moving a file from one location to another. Aug 11 11:18:41 Tired, tired... Good night. Aug 11 14:40:27 wikiwide pushing for one monolithic eierlegende-wollmilchsau app? sounds like pretty much the thing _nobody_ (but Lennart) wants Aug 11 14:44:00 heck, I don't want qbarcode integrated into *every* camera since I might have better use for those MB of storage and RAM in my system. Go figure some people don't need qbarcode. Some people need it but with a different or no cameraui at all. Same applies for prerry much every other "monolithic merged mega murder app" Aug 11 14:47:55 sixwheeledbeast: cell IDs are pretty much persistent. For 3G one tower may have completely different CIDs though, on segments. WLAN is a massive power hog when searching for APs Aug 11 14:48:46 where are the newest repositories Aug 11 14:49:41 ~maemo-repos Aug 11 14:49:41 rumour has it, maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories Aug 11 14:50:00 do you use application manager Aug 11 14:50:30 it's slow as hell, is there a faster one? Aug 11 14:50:42 upgrade to cssu Aug 11 14:50:52 pretty sure I did, that was back in 2015 Aug 11 14:50:54 app manager got fixed there Aug 11 14:51:23 it's cssu Aug 11 14:51:48 >>[2018-08-11 10:58:58] That's why he would like to use low-power-consumption "connected to tower" to estimate when it would be beneficial to listen for SSIDs?<< makes perfect sense Aug 11 14:51:48 I didn't remember entire seconds going past while something opens Aug 11 14:52:16 a couple of weeks ago there was discussion about e-ink etc... not directly related to n900 but if someone's interested I wrote a little thing https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY :) Aug 11 14:52:16 use dpkg to check what is the app manager version Aug 11 14:52:53 joga: cool, but why pythoooon, doh Aug 11 14:54:08 I've forgotten how to use debian Aug 11 14:54:25 dpkg abcdef ? Aug 11 14:55:25 dpkg -l|grep n-ma Aug 11 14:56:48 >> I am in the middle of 3 towers,...<< see my "GSM positioning, revisited (again)" atricles/posts on openmoko ML on that very topic Aug 11 14:57:36 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Aug 11 14:58:31 wht's the latest veresion Aug 11 14:58:36 KotCzarny, why not? :) Aug 11 14:58:49 joga: deps ;) Aug 11 14:59:04 target system already had it :) Aug 11 14:59:14 flashpoint: it's 2.2.73-2+... on mine Aug 11 14:59:32 (and without it I couldn't have done it in a couple of days - I have a small kid nowadays so free time isn't abundant) ;) Aug 11 14:59:35 joga: anyway, thanks! i might rip some parts out of it ;) Aug 11 14:59:49 feel free Aug 11 15:00:16 so this is cssu like I said and it's the "latest" version Aug 11 15:00:39 joga: btw. did you consider doing the same for generic fb? Aug 11 15:01:09 i mean, using generic fb as a data source Aug 11 15:01:12 not at the moment, I did consider a vnc client for a while but I've no time right now for such Aug 11 15:01:30 and adding some param to nly update on request or some period Aug 11 15:01:34 are you trying to get facebook working on this thing Aug 11 15:01:49 fb is shorthand for framebuffer Aug 11 15:02:07 there are entire seconds between clicking on something and it happening Aug 11 15:02:28 flashpoint: there is a high chance your device suffers from low memory Aug 11 15:02:57 you mean the low amount of memory that they put in it in 2009? Aug 11 15:03:19 or is it something I can do something about Aug 11 15:03:19 yes, and you running lots of widgets/apps Aug 11 15:03:37 no it's not crammed with garbage Aug 11 15:04:24 I keep devices fairly clean Aug 11 15:05:37 I need to update the repositories Aug 11 15:05:57 there was a link on the wiki page that was click-friendly Aug 11 15:06:18 does cute tube2 still work Aug 11 15:19:39 which audio software is available for the n900? Aug 11 15:19:46 KotCzarny, someone said you wrote a bunch of it Aug 11 15:19:51 yes Aug 11 15:19:58 https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=32 Aug 11 15:20:03 feel free to browse Aug 11 15:20:10 I shall! Aug 11 15:30:39 Oksana: wikiwde: sixwheeledbeast: (CID for determining whether to enable WLAN) it's however a short jump since maemo's location lib uses GPS, ~U-TDOA, *and* a combined augmented version of skyhook-wireless that also does exactly this: listen for nearby CIDs and use a database to find a rough estimation of location. IOW maemo's liblocation is a comprehensive superset of the CID-method sugested by you Aug 11 21:43:28 flashpoint: The slow response time may be normal. I had a bad user experience, including the UI being too slow to respond, with my N900 even with CSSU so I switched to an Android smartphone in 2014. Aug 11 23:50:37 you could as well just have deleted the el_v1.db eventslogger d, and keep the number of open webbrowser pages in background lower than 3 Aug 11 23:51:06 oooh, and tame tracker Aug 12 00:11:30 ~listvalues el-v1 Aug 12 00:11:33 Factoid search of 'el-v1' by value (1): #maemo eventsdb. Aug 12 00:11:41 ~eventsdb Aug 12 00:11:41 rumour has it, #maemo el-v1.db is Don't let the events db (msgs, call histore etc pp) grow too large as it brings the system to a grinding halt from swap hell. Strongly recommended: frequent /etc/osso-cud-scripts/rtcom-eventlogger-clean.sh Aug 12 00:14:18 ~#maemo eventsdb is also filesizes of /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db > 1MB are considered waaaay too much Aug 12 00:14:18 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 12 00:14:23 ~eventsdb Aug 12 00:14:24 methinks #maemo el-v1.db is Don't let the events db (msgs, call histore etc pp) grow too large as it brings the system to a grinding halt from swap hell. Strongly recommended: frequent /etc/osso-cud-scripts/rtcom-eventlogger-clean.sh, or filesizes of /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db > 1MB are considered waaaay too much **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 12 03:00:00 2018