**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 19 03:00:00 2018 Sep 19 08:20:57 {-0-}: The Debian project already gave the world a woody in 2002 with Debian GNU/Linux version 3.0 . ;-) Sep 19 08:28:37 Seriously, though, spending time on reconfiguring software to work around the major limitation of having only 256 MiB of physical memory on a computer running GNU+Linux with X seems like using software to work around a hardware problem instead of solving the hardware problem, which usually seems wrong but still often done in practice. Sep 19 08:29:34 which brings us to the beautifully unoptimized world of current multihundred megabytes desktop envs, thanks. Sep 19 08:33:46 I meant as opposed to spending time on the hardware solution of increasing the amount of physical memory but that may be clearly implied from the context. Sep 19 08:40:20 The automotive vehicle industry keeps doing more with less by using less fuel (energy) to provide a longer driving range, though, so I suppose there is an argument for optimising the software to use less memory instead of succumbing to software bloat by adding multiple gigabytes of physical memory. If the software run on mobile platforms was lean and efficient, though, what would drive demand for 64-bit hardware in mobile/embedded applications? Sep 19 08:40:54 big data sets. Sep 19 08:41:03 and 4k video. Sep 19 08:41:31 also, you need 64bit hw because you have bloat in software Sep 19 08:44:12 Yes, that last part is my point: software bloat is beneficial to hardware vendors if it drives demand for new 64-bit computers to replace 32-bit computers. Sep 19 08:44:42 people get lazy. Sep 19 08:44:55 please stop defending laziness Sep 19 08:47:03 I just upgraded from 8 GiB of main memory to 16 GiB in my home computer because I use bloated software. :-P Sep 19 09:11:14 KotCzarny: 4k video on a 800*480 screen? makes sense... NOT Sep 19 09:11:51 where did i wrote about 800x480 screen? Sep 19 09:12:20 but sure, you could go 4k resolution on a 3.9" screen. First step direction hologram video Sep 19 09:12:28 it was answer to some generic question what would need faster bandwidth/wider data instructions Sep 19 09:19:39 I think that users wanting more "eyecandy" adds bloat to software aswell Sep 19 09:21:40 thats why users run candy window managers, and power users something that just works and is useful Sep 19 09:22:17 s/window managers/wm+de/ Sep 19 09:30:45 As the N900 is 10 years old with no available successor, software solutions to hardware limitations seems sensible, no? Sep 19 09:31:25 There is also a wear reduction aspect. Sep 19 09:34:12 Look at meltdown and spectre this is a hardware issue, it's not like we can just throw processors at old hardware. So unideal patches microcode is required. Sep 19 09:36:18 automotive industry is bound by Euro emission regulations otherwise they wouldn't care about efficiency, it's about selling cars. Sep 19 09:41:04 do we have tool time programs running time? Sep 19 09:41:11 tool for timing? Sep 19 09:41:41 i mean if i have algorithm 1 and 2. And I wanna compare their running time Sep 19 09:41:56 you have in shell Sep 19 09:41:58 time df Sep 19 09:42:00 etc Sep 19 09:42:27 so "time java program"? Sep 19 09:42:32 yup Sep 19 09:42:35 thx Sep 19 09:42:53 be sure to run multiple times for good data set :P Sep 19 09:44:45 oops. Shaky fingers.. Sep 19 09:47:59 this seems like perfect way to drain battery :D Sep 19 09:48:27 multiplying n by 10 for each run Sep 19 10:22:48 Is this on N900 messybox? Sep 19 10:41:19 yup Sep 19 12:51:15 sixwheeledbeast: If the target market of the automotive industry was only a country such as Saudi Arabia where the cost of the fuel needed by the vehicles is very low then what you said may be true but in countries where fuel costs much more I think the cost of the fuel used by the vehicle is important because consumers will not want to buy a vehicle if they cannot afford fuel for it. Sep 19 12:54:21 More generally, the cost of the energy needed by the vehicle to include electric vehicles but using electricity generated by burning fossil fuels for an electric vehicle does not seem better than burning fossil fuels in the vehicle itself. Sep 19 12:57:42 Also, even an electric utility company with renewable means of generating electricity still relies upon vehicles and probably other equipment using an internal combustion engine instead of an electric motor. Sep 19 12:59:24 Yes, more generally a heat engine but in modern practice that usually means an internal combustion engine. Sep 19 13:00:43 Manufacturing costs money, having vehicles only for sale in one market is wasteful this is a larger factor than fuel. People will pay for fuel upto a point as vehicle owners are generally more affluent. Sep 19 13:03:13 Vajb: { time java program; } 2>> output.txt Sep 19 13:04:39 Does the N950 count as a successor to the N900? Sep 19 13:06:28 How about the BlackBerry Priv if the user could have superuser access to the stock OS or if the user could replace the OS? Sep 19 13:08:06 Maybe at least one of those two modifications is possible by now because the Priv was released almost three years ago. Sep 19 13:10:07 Yes, the battery is still difficult to remove on the Priv but many users (generally, not only on BlackBerry) seem to not care about this limitation, at least not until it personally affects them. Sep 19 13:23:28 I am assuming that an integrated hardware keyboard is deemed a requirement for a handheld computer to be considered a successor the N900. If an integrated hardware keyboard is not required then can the GTA04 be considered a successor to the N900? Sep 19 13:28:30 Maybe some region-specific model with an integrated hardware keyboard exists but I am not aware of it because the language or region is foreign to me, such as in India or “China”? Sep 19 13:30:13 Replacement would not mean "if this or that". Sep 19 13:32:44 I think I would likely have found such a product offered on the Internet by someone in India, though, because English seems to be popular in India because India has many regional languages but English is a global language. Sep 19 13:36:03 Then what does it mean for something to be a successor to the N900? Even back in 2011, the Nexus One could already run Debian GNU+Linux as the host OS but without cellular telephony capability. Maybe that capability has been added since then. Sep 19 13:38:13 What about Ubuntu Touch? Apparently it is even discontinued too, which makes it even more like Maemo. ;-) Sep 19 13:40:48 Seriously, though, something being discontinued seems to often not matter in practice. Sep 19 13:45:16 Is this situation similar to defining a successor to the Amiga models officially released by Commodore before its fall in 1994/1995? Sep 19 13:48:43 I guess the condition for the N950 to be a successor is the ability to obtain an N950. Sep 19 13:51:09 n950 is n9 with hw kb. also, greatly locked. not fun. Sep 19 13:52:34 Greatly locked even around seven (?) years after release? Sep 19 13:53:02 ~aegis Sep 19 13:53:09 darn, bot is missing Sep 19 13:53:23 droid4? Sep 19 13:57:18 ldd /usr/bin/ffmpeg |wc -l Sep 19 13:57:18 187 Sep 19 13:57:24 WHAT. THE. FUCK. Sep 19 14:10:23 At least all the hardware features for starters. Sep 19 14:15:34 Even the FM radio? Sep 19 14:16:05 Even the FM radio in Norway? ;-) Sep 19 14:41:08 yep RX and TX Sep 19 14:53:33 ldd ffmpeg |wc -l Sep 19 14:53:33 10 Sep 19 14:53:37 much better. Sep 19 17:07:16 sixwheeledbeast: Even the only surface-mounted USB connector? ;-) Sep 19 17:09:42 I wouldn't call that a feature. I also have had minimal issues with N900 USB connectors. Sep 19 17:24:53 ~wb Sep 19 17:24:53 thx Sep 19 17:46:47 ~aegis Sep 19 17:46:47 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Sep 19 19:58:48 http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Sep 19 19:58:59 oops. sorry **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 03:00:01 2018