**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 20 03:00:01 2018
Dec 20 05:05:30 <sicelo> cu
Dec 20 05:13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2018/12/if-your-privacy-is-the-hands-of-others-alone-you-dont-have-any/
Dec 20 05:14:28 <KotCzarny> privacy? whats that?
Dec 20 05:15:09 <DocScrutinizer05> sicelo: kbd backlight is unrelated to FPC/flex. It's controlled vy a magnet in display slider that gets sensed by a hall sensor roughly above the "O" key iirc
Dec 20 05:15:24 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: ^^^
Dec 20 05:16:28 <DocScrutinizer05> the magnet is basically at edge of display slide and positions next to hall when slide is completely open
Dec 20 05:17:04 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not unheard that magnet getting loose
Dec 20 05:20:55 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh kbd backlight gets controlled by 6 of the LP5523 channels, while the remaining 3 channels control the RGB indicator LED
Dec 20 05:21:18 <DocScrutinizer05> e.h. fcam might fsck up both indicator light and jbd backlight
Dec 20 05:21:23 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g.*
Dec 20 06:41:05 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: it's MCE which controls the backlight, you might want to have an eye on it and what it does (which "files" it reads and which I2C commands it sends to LP5523) - strace might be your best friend
Dec 20 06:42:48 <DocScrutinizer05> sicelo: actually what's the problem exactly? "intermittent kbd backlight" sounds like hard to detect since the kbd BL already acts pretty weird in regular operation
Dec 20 06:42:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: ^^^ dang
Dec 20 06:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> what the heck is wromng with my irc client nick completion?
Dec 20 06:47:15 <DocScrutinizer05> dman konversation is supposed to replace a plain <TAB> by most recently used nickname completion. However it doesn't. While I evidently used sixwheeledbeast^ last time, it gives me sicelo
Dec 20 06:47:40 <DocScrutinizer05> DocScrutinizer05: 
Dec 20 06:47:43 <DocScrutinizer05> DocScrutinizer05: 
Dec 20 06:47:47 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: 
Dec 20 06:47:49 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: 
Dec 20 06:47:57 <DocScrutinizer05> tzz now it works
Dec 20 06:48:27 <DocScrutinizer05> KDE 5 is a FSCKNG RNG
Dec 20 06:50:06 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: MCE will shut down backlight when ambient light is too high
Dec 20 06:51:53 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: the ALS has an annoying similarity to a camera with tele lens. Sitting in a pretty dark room the ALS might think you're in bright daylight since the ALS points to the tiny bright spot of a light bulb
Dec 20 06:53:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: though the opposite is more usually to be seen, your device is brighly illuminated from e.g, sun shining in through a window, but ALS thinks it's pitch black night time since it looks to the black painted ceiling
Dec 20 06:55:23 <Maxdamantus> as for the input used by mce to determine whether to turn the backlight on/off, I imagine it would be the "slide" gpio.
Dec 20 06:55:53 <Maxdamantus> the state of that can be read at /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state
Dec 20 06:57:05 <Maxdamantus> I'm pretty sure I've stopped mce from responding to gpio states by just mounting regular files over those nodes in sysfs, so it probably just reads/polls that file.
Dec 20 06:57:45 <DocScrutinizer05> KotCzarny: >>privacy? whats that?<< I think that's an incredibly good question, much better than you thought when you asked it
Dec 20 06:58:52 <KotCzarny> yup
Dec 20 07:00:12 <Maxdamantus> on the device that I'm currently using, the slide gpio wasn't working from the time I got it, so the backlight doesn't come on, and it doesn't wake up when opening the slide.
Dec 20 07:00:26 <KotCzarny> most people just think of it as a cellar where one does his/hers hobbies
Dec 20 07:01:02 <KotCzarny> without marketers ringing all the time and police looking over, no matter if you do legal or less legal things
Dec 20 07:01:19 <Maxdamantus> on my device the hall sensor also doesn't work, dunno if the two things are related.
Dec 20 07:01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> back in the ancient days of internet we dialed a dial-up ISP phone number with our Hayes modem over plain old telephone system. Pay-per-minute, no authentication, no logging of the number you're dialing in from - perfect anonymity
Dec 20 07:02:09 <Maxdamantus> (the hall sensor not working is probably a bit more annoying, since I have to turn the screen off manually during a phone call to prevent my face pressing buttons on the screen)
Dec 20 07:02:31 <DocScrutinizer05> thinhs changed and now you get tracked from log in to your ISP account to cookies on your browser and logging of your IP across several websites
Dec 20 07:02:34 <KotCzarny> for many its 'leave me damn alone'
Dec 20 07:02:52 <KotCzarny> even if they spill themselves over the internets in every possible way
Dec 20 07:03:18 <KotCzarny> people were counted and numbered since ancient times
Dec 20 07:03:24 <KotCzarny> it's not a new concept
Dec 20 07:03:27 <DocScrutinizer05> we should try to define pretty clearly what is relevant for our "privacy", what we are concerned about and would like to see protected against
Dec 20 07:04:34 <KotCzarny> that depends if you believe in society or individuals
Dec 20 07:04:50 <KotCzarny> because those two arent the same in the effect
Dec 20 07:04:52 <DocScrutinizer05> opne thing's for sure: the perfect anonymity of the good ole days of dial-in internet via modem from a phone booth are gone forever
Dec 20 07:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and even back then you could reveal you plain name by dosclosing info in a "place" in internet where you better had not done so
Dec 20 07:07:09 <KotCzarny> anonimity isnt the same as privacy
Dec 20 07:07:20 <DocScrutinizer05> but back when, no companies made a business out of your comprehensive activity log in internet
Dec 20 07:09:00 <DocScrutinizer05> seems everybody startzs worrying about their "privacy" but nobody has a clear concept of what "privacy" actually means
Dec 20 07:09:12 <KotCzarny> you can still be anonymous, but profiled
Dec 20 07:09:49 <KotCzarny> as is the case with google for example
Dec 20 07:10:10 <KotCzarny> they dont know who you are at the beginning, yet, in time they have your profile
Dec 20 07:10:23 <KotCzarny> even if they dont put your name on it (yet)
Dec 20 07:13:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Dec 20 07:14:49 <DocScrutinizer05> like with any attack threatening you or your devices, you need to start by defining the threat model before you can reasnably think about how to defend against that threat
Dec 20 07:15:11 <KotCzarny> tl;dr, for knowledgeable people privacy==security from profiling, for others its just marketing scheme about big joes having ability to sell you legally
Dec 20 07:15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like a pretty good first approach
Dec 20 07:15:54 <KotCzarny> unfortunatelly with our current society it's the latter we hear about
Dec 20 07:17:05 <KotCzarny> people hardly ever fight over the important things (for me important being healthy sustainability of our planet/humanity as a whole)
Dec 20 08:52:32 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Microsoft itself does not obey the DNT header, stating "Because there is not yet a common understanding of how to interpret the DNT signal, Microsoft services do not currently respond to browser DNT signals."<<
Dec 20 08:52:50 <DocScrutinizer05> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#Effectiveness
Dec 20 08:54:01 <DocScrutinizer05> the result of not clearly defining what's the subject at hand (privacy) - this excuse is halfway legit
Dec 20 09:25:17 <sixwheeledbeast^> DocScrutinizer05: sicelo:  ty, sounds like it's the high ambient light issue that I maybe seeing. The issue disappears when I am in a dim or dark room. I will monitor it for now. I know since I replace the main ribbon the IR sensor hasn't been perfect but never had the keyboard lights off before. I think i ever so slightly misaligned the main ribbon on tray.
Dec 20 09:26:02 <sixwheeledbeast^> If it's a magnet then at least i know the main ribbon isn't dying again.
Dec 20 10:01:15 <sixwheeledbeast^> As for privacy topic i just simply refuse to use something if they a Privacy Policy i don't like. 
Dec 20 10:05:46 <KotCzarny> what if they do it in gray area?
Dec 20 10:21:30 <sixwheeledbeast^> ?
Dec 20 10:22:44 <KotCzarny> ie. you dont know about it, but they profile you at the order of some gov. agency
Dec 20 10:26:26 <sixwheeledbeast^> If I "must" use the service do so with additional protection VPN/Onion
Dec 20 12:16:10 <KotCzarny> ~fiasco
Dec 20 12:16:11 <infobot> L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/
Dec 20 12:16:16 <KotCzarny> meh.
Dec 20 12:16:27 <KotCzarny> ~#maemo fiasco
Dec 20 12:19:35 <bencoh> I actually love that fiasco/l4 link, thanks :]
Dec 20 12:19:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 20 12:20:04 <bencoh> this thing really got ported to quite a lot of SoCs in the end
Dec 20 12:35:16 <KotCzarny> ~0xFFFF
Dec 20 12:35:16 <infobot> hmm... 0xffff is https://github.com/pali/0xFFFF, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87996
Dec 20 12:52:42 <sixwheeledbeast^> ~listkeys fiasco
Dec 20 12:52:44 <infobot> Factoid search of 'fiasco' by key (1): fiasco.
Dec 20 17:14:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lisvalues fiasco
Dec 20 17:15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listvalues fiasco
Dec 20 17:15:10 <infobot> Factoid search of 'fiasco' by value (7): #maemo bm-images ;; emmcinfo ;; xrotation #DEL# ;; combined ;; xrotation ;; nitdroid ;; fiasco.
Dec 20 17:15:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bm-images
Dec 20 17:15:46 <infobot> i heard bm-images is http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/complete_image/ http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/BM/BMbackups/Robbiethe1st_complete_image/   FIASCO+BM: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/BM/flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img
Dec 20 17:17:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listvalues fias?o
Dec 20 17:17:24 <infobot> Factoid search of 'fias?o' by value (7): xrotation #DEL# ;; fiasco ;; emmcinfo ;; nitdroid ;; #maemo bm-images ;; xrotation ;; combined.
Dec 20 17:17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined
Dec 20 17:17:58 <infobot> [combined] the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/
Dec 20 17:18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> gosh, this factoid needs some update, eh? prolly just stale links
Dec 20 17:19:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal combined
Dec 20 17:19:58 <infobot> "combined" is "the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/"
Dec 20 17:20:41 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: forget combined
Dec 20 17:20:41 <infobot> i forgot combined, DocScrutinizer05
Dec 20 17:22:52 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: #maemo combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see ~lf which will tell you how to get the latest fiasco image, actually does all the download for you
Dec 20 17:22:52 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Dec 20 17:23:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ~combined
Dec 20 17:23:03 <infobot> hmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see ~lf which will tell you how to get the latest fiasco image, actually does all the download for you
Dec 20 17:23:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lf
Dec 20 17:23:23 <infobot> it has been said that #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
Dec 20 17:25:02 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: ^^^ OK?
Dec 20 17:25:19 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: ^^^
Dec 20 18:04:14 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: ?
Dec 20 18:38:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ckeaning up factoids
Dec 20 18:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> unrelated: https://www.sonniesedge.co.uk/talks/dear-developer
Dec 20 21:48:14 <bleb> just read that symbian was open source briefly around 2010
Dec 20 21:48:49 <bleb> did anyone do any work on that code base?  it would be amazing if i could compile and install my own symbian s60
Dec 20 23:18:12 <buZz> bleb: https://github.com/SymbianSource ? 
Dec 20 23:18:37 <buZz> what you need is ~probably in there ;)
Dec 21 00:41:36 <bleb> buZz: ok thanks
Dec 21 00:43:04 <buZz> if someone attempted to build it , i bet its documente on the forum
Dec 21 00:43:08 <buZz> documented*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 21 03:00:02 2018