**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 02:59:59 2019
Feb 12 03:00:18 <Wikiwide> If there is a problem (and I don't think there should be), then Qml-browser defaults to duckduckgo, regardless of searchengines. 
Feb 12 03:11:15 <Wikiwide> I don't know where order of search engines is hijacked to have DuckDuckGo always at the first place in the list?
Feb 12 03:11:33 <Wikiwide> Could be in the binary.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 04:22:34 2019
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 05:13:22 2019
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 06:36:21 2019
Feb 12 08:43:47 <Vajb> huh, I might have fixed my device.
Feb 12 08:44:08 <Vajb> as simple as bending those golden leaf springs slightly backwards.
Feb 12 08:44:18 <Vajb> in sim slot
Feb 12 08:45:01 <KotCzarny> which one?
Feb 12 08:45:19 <KotCzarny> those 6 that touch sim?
Feb 12 08:45:26 <sicelo> yes
Feb 12 08:45:50 <KotCzarny> might do that as well, i guess
Feb 12 08:46:04 <Vajb> all seven
Feb 12 08:50:20 <KotCzarny> i guess fix didnt work 100%
Feb 12 08:50:21 <KotCzarny> :>
Feb 12 08:51:26 <sicelo> haha
Feb 12 08:53:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Feb 12 08:58:35 <Vajb> do you happen to know my good frien Mr. Murphy? :p
Feb 12 09:03:35 <KotCzarny> we do.
Feb 12 09:03:36 <KotCzarny> ;)
Feb 12 09:09:47 <KotCzarny> seems worse than ever?
Feb 12 09:09:48 <KotCzarny> :)
Feb 12 09:19:13 <Vajb> this is kind of amazing problem. It works for few hours and all of sudden stops working
Feb 12 09:19:37 <sicelo> what operator is this?
Feb 12 09:19:45 <Vajb> but there was external event which triggered it
Feb 12 09:19:50 <Vajb> Elisa
Feb 12 09:20:01 <Vajb> Finnish operator
Feb 12 09:20:04 <sicelo> external event?
Feb 12 09:20:39 <Vajb> external thing that I refered to was that I came back in after spending half an hour outside
Feb 12 09:21:02 <Vajb> temperature change from -1 to +23
Feb 12 09:21:25 <inz> Your sim card is trying to tell you to spend more time in the great outdoors.
Feb 12 09:21:53 <Vajb> I think I will bend those spingy things a bit more since it helped some
Feb 12 09:23:40 <KotCzarny> how much charged is your battery?
Feb 12 09:23:43 <KotCzarny> currently
Feb 12 09:24:01 <sicelo> what is the problem by the way? non-working internet, or no gsm connection at all?
Feb 12 09:25:12 <KotCzarny> in my case 'cellular network not available' and sometimes 'no sim'
Feb 12 09:25:22 <KotCzarny> but i suspect sim troubles
Feb 12 09:25:29 <KotCzarny> since the card itself is old 
Feb 12 09:27:18 <sicelo> oh you still have issues KotCzarny as well :-0
Feb 12 09:27:42 <KotCzarny> well, no-sim problem stopped
Feb 12 09:27:51 <KotCzarny> but in last few weeks it happened 2-3 times
Feb 12 15:11:25 <Kabouik_> Hey lads, is there anything in the works regarding the SSL certificate of TMO?
Feb 12 15:13:06 <Kabouik_> My website with probably 1000 times fewer daily visits than TMO still is on https. Why is it not deemed important for TMO?
Feb 12 15:15:18 <Kabouik_> "Most users ever online was 14,978, 11-29-18 at 23:08."
Feb 12 15:15:57 <Kabouik_> Erratum, 15000 fewers visits on my website. :> By the way, not sure what happened on Nov. 29th, but it's great to see that the record was so recently. Probably a spambot wave though, I reckon.
Feb 12 15:16:19 <KotCzarny> maybe bot attack
Feb 12 15:16:20 <KotCzarny> who knows
Feb 12 15:16:32 <KotCzarny> or some maemo-leste announcement hit the media
Feb 12 15:18:19 <KotCzarny> as for https, whats the gain?
Feb 12 15:18:29 <KotCzarny> apart from used server resources
Feb 12 15:18:38 <KotCzarny> give 3 real points
Feb 12 15:18:41 <KotCzarny> (for tmo)
Feb 12 15:19:51 <Kabouik_> To be honest I didn't even think SSL should be debated, I believe it's a security standard and should not be a question when a site gathers so many people. But I am not an admin, nor a professional in this topic, I might be wrong.
Feb 12 15:20:05 <Kabouik_> I'm afraid Leste hitting the media wouldn't attract 15k people, unfortunately ;p
Feb 12 15:20:20 <KotCzarny> again, im against doing anything just because everyone does it and creates a fad
Feb 12 15:20:38 <KotCzarny> if admins had some real advantage to go full ssl, they would do it
Feb 12 15:21:20 <Kabouik_> It is not just because everyone uses it, browsers also start to complain/warn when they see something non-ssl, and the security of users should be the primary priority, even when they could just check whether the URL they typed is correct
Feb 12 15:22:10 <KotCzarny> you dont understand security
Feb 12 15:22:22 <Kabouik_> I might not, I acknowledged
Feb 12 15:22:45 <KotCzarny> it's not about 'i dont wanna see anyone seeing me doing things'
Feb 12 15:22:53 <Kabouik_> I know
Feb 12 15:23:11 <KotCzarny> because if you were highprofile target, ssl wont help
Feb 12 15:23:21 <Kabouik_> That is not what I had in mind
Feb 12 15:23:23 <KotCzarny> as your computer/os is bugged 
Feb 12 15:23:35 <KotCzarny> so what is the security you are talking?
Feb 12 15:23:50 <KotCzarny> you can set login page in bookmarks to be https
Feb 12 15:23:54 <KotCzarny> but then?
Feb 12 15:24:12 <KotCzarny> sure, there is one point of mitm injection attacks
Feb 12 15:24:39 <Kabouik_> I just believe a website drawing hundreds of users a day should not be flagged as "not secure" by most browsers, and I don't believe the putative costs of going https overweigh the benefits of having a website recognized as genuine
Feb 12 15:25:31 <KotCzarny> so basically, you are complaining because your browser is complaining
Feb 12 15:25:38 <Kabouik_> No I am not complaining
Feb 12 15:25:38 <KotCzarny> and not because you know what is it about?
Feb 12 15:25:46 <Kabouik_> I am asking why it is not deemed relevant for TMO.
Feb 12 15:26:07 <sixwheeledbeast> Whats up with the cert it's TLS1.2 with LE and expires in May?
Feb 12 15:27:31 <Kabouik_> On top of that, as I said I don't know much about administrating a website or security, but I happen to have a website with a SSL certificate. It is not much, but I am sure the majority of TMO users don't, and they will probably be more concerned about browsers flagging the website as "Not secure" than I am after checking the URL. Assuming everyone knows about http/https and can make an educated assessment of the real situation after checking the full 
Feb 12 15:27:31 <Kabouik_> URL would be an issue, and I don't think browser warnings should be overlooked.
Feb 12 15:28:47 <Kabouik_> Because those warnings they do concern people, including TMO users.
Feb 12 15:29:13 <sixwheeledbeast> warnings?
Feb 12 15:29:13 <Kabouik_> Err, sorry I edited my sentence and left some words out of place.
Feb 12 15:30:38 <Kabouik_> https://0x0.st/zz_6.png
Feb 12 15:31:51 <Kabouik_> But well, I see if I type https:// that TMO does have a certificate
Feb 12 15:31:57 <Kabouik_> It just doesn't automatically redirects to https
Feb 12 15:32:02 <Kabouik_> What is the benefit of that?
Feb 12 15:32:11 <sixwheeledbeast> So use 443 instead of 80?
Feb 12 15:32:15 <sixwheeledbeast> ^ exactly
Feb 12 15:32:18 <Kabouik_> But why?
Feb 12 15:32:26 <sixwheeledbeast> Because Midgard
Feb 12 15:32:33 <sixwheeledbeast> ~midgard
Feb 12 15:32:34 <infobot> A PHP Application Server Suite - Web building with Web-based tools. URL: http://www.midgard-project.org/
Feb 12 15:33:00 <sixwheeledbeast> I use HTTPS Everywhere so never have this issue
Feb 12 15:33:41 <Kabouik_> I don't know how I ended up on the http version of TMO honestly, but I assumed I should have been redirected to https if it existed
Feb 12 15:34:03 <Kabouik_> Probably just typed "talk.maemo.org" in the address field
Feb 12 15:34:34 <KotCzarny> i think login page redirects to http
Feb 12 15:34:41 <KotCzarny> after successful login
Feb 12 15:35:10 <Kabouik_> That might be it, I logged in today
Feb 12 15:35:30 <Kabouik_> I am not sure what are the benefits of leading people to the http urls if there are https ones
Feb 12 15:35:43 <KotCzarny> server load
Feb 12 15:35:56 <KotCzarny> in old times it was an issue
Feb 12 15:36:11 <Kabouik_> Alright, I see
Feb 12 15:36:36 <sixwheeledbeast> It something that is not easy to fix it's been requested before many times over the years.
Feb 12 15:36:41 <KotCzarny> so its more a legacy from ancient times
Feb 12 15:36:49 <Kabouik_> Well anyway, sorry for the noise, I was just bothered by this "not secure" label since a few days but didn't realize the website had a proper certificate
Feb 12 15:37:34 <Kabouik_> I guess it would be best indeed if users were always on https, it would be less confusing and wouldn't raise any question about whether the website is actively maintained
Feb 12 15:38:22 <KotCzarny> keep in mind new certs might kill n900's browser :P
Feb 12 15:38:34 <KotCzarny> so 'always on https' might not be the best idea
Feb 12 15:38:40 <sixwheeledbeast> Even HTTPS Everywhere shows the site has (partial HTTPS). It's something that would be nice to fix but not simple with everything being tied into midgard and volunteer staff keeping it running.
Feb 12 15:39:00 <sixwheeledbeast> That too N900 compatibility is another thought.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 02:59:56 2019