**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 26 02:59:57 2019 Feb 26 04:02:18 Uptime: 22h, so far. So will not have a fresh, out of the charger battery (for kernel power upgrade from v52 to v53) until a few hours later. Feb 26 16:58:54 Maxdamantus: ACK re: BL-5J. Feb 26 17:02:30 For how long are new lithium-ion batteries in proprietary form factors, such as those used by Nokia and Samsung, usually made? I wonder if new batteries for the HTC Dream, the first commercially available computer running Android, from 2008 are still available. Feb 26 17:06:18 I now have an LG G5 running Android OS 8 but unrooted but I cannot move my SIM to it from my Galaxy Note 3 until I convert my microSIM to a nanoSIM. Feb 26 17:21:07 I do not see any HTC Dream battery (on its own, not included with the computer) on eBay nor my local Craigslist. Feb 26 17:24:09 go buy next phone even more limited Feb 26 17:24:18 sponsor those who make them Feb 26 17:24:36 then come to old phone channel and complain? Feb 26 17:35:59 Never mind, I tried different key words on eBay and found new batteries for the HTC Dream for as little as 5 CAD including shipping: Feb 26 17:35:59 https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HTC-DREA160-3-7v-1150mAh-Lithium-Ion-Battery-for-HTC-G1-Black/223310218238?hash=item33fe5383fe:g:nzoAAOSw7wFcLoST:rk:1:pf:0 Feb 26 17:46:53 More chance of a user replaceable battery being manufactured for longer. Feb 26 20:27:32 Kernel power upgrade from v52 to v53: The following packages will be REMOVED: kernel-module-cifs libomxil-ti-components omap3430-dsp-baseimage-ti omap3430-dsp-libraries-ti Feb 26 20:27:44 Is it fine? Feb 26 20:34:39 Darn /usr/bin/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko , interrupting installation with a broken pipe due to trying to overwrite the file... Feb 26 20:37:25 libqt4-bearer-hotfix Feb 26 20:43:08 This GUI "asker" doesn't say new version of kernel correctly. It does say that I have v52, but it says that it's going to install something simple, not v53 Feb 26 20:49:20 Ah, it's double question. If user agrees to flash a simple image, then a second or two later he gets a second question, to flash v53 image. At least, it seems to work, now. Feb 26 20:50:13 But SIGTERM received after Leaving update mode. Is it normal? Feb 26 21:17:24 yoghurt sport really now? Feb 26 21:17:53 isn't that obsolete since ages already? Feb 26 21:18:22 people collect weirder stuff Feb 26 21:21:41 What's weirder, the diversion for it was written under certman Feb 26 21:35:33 libmaemosec-certman0 Feb 26 21:35:35 /usr/bin/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko Feb 26 21:35:37 /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko Feb 26 21:37:51 In short, there should be a nicer way than that to connect modules to kernel Feb 26 21:43:08 date still disregards GUI timezone entirely Feb 26 22:06:08 messybox? Feb 26 22:06:35 No idea. Might be somewhat similar to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225 Feb 26 22:12:17 >> So *maybe* the environment within the desktop application is running with a wrong timezone.<< Feb 26 22:12:30 environment settings in maemo are tricky Feb 26 22:13:54 would the date binary be in messybox :thinks: Feb 26 22:15:05 ~pkg Feb 26 22:15:06 extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ Feb 26 22:17:21 Yes, time binary is from busybox Feb 26 22:18:02 https://pastebin.com/N4dUYtcF Feb 26 22:18:11 tzconfig, just like date, persists with Lord Howe Island timezone, disregarding Settings->Date and time Feb 26 22:22:20 So it's currently zulu +10.5? not Zulu +11? Feb 26 22:23:41 Yes. So date shows one thing, and clock shows another. Feb 26 22:24:12 I'm pretty sure maemo doesn't care about $TZ $LC_ALL etc Feb 26 22:24:22 tzconfig seems to be getting it from /etc/localtime somehow Feb 26 22:24:38 there are few libc implementations Feb 26 22:24:46 glibc, busybox's one, uclibc etc Feb 26 22:25:33 though https://termbin.com/wzxi set|grep '^LC'|nc termbin.com 9999 Feb 26 22:25:49 Problem is, date's half-an-hour ahead of reality time gets used by other things, such as, phone call log. Very inconvenient. Feb 26 22:27:54 I have everything en_AU except for LC_MESSAGES and LC_TIME, which are en_GB Feb 26 22:30:28 Lord Howe comes from readlink /etc/localtime Feb 26 22:30:50 Isn't /etc/localtime normally a symlink to /usr/share/zoneinfo/foo/bar ? Feb 26 22:32:17 Yes, it is. But why is it a symlink to Lord Howe, and not to Adelaide or Sydney or whatever? Why does a change in GUI settings fail to affect date and tzconfig and localtime? Feb 26 22:33:38 maemo is special, don't get fooled Feb 26 22:34:26 particularly around everything time, quite a few things work different than you'd expect assuming maemo was debian or ubuntu Feb 26 22:34:37 Is it even typical for maemo to have /etc/localtime symlink, or is it usually falling back onto some other mechanism for timezones? Feb 26 22:34:52 ^^^ Feb 26 22:35:40 check "set time: automatic" in settings, which not only adjusts system clock but also timezone according to what the cellular network says Feb 26 22:36:10 as long as you didn't mess up stuff by using standard debian means to alter it Feb 26 22:38:10 Hmm, I used tzconfig to set timezone to Adelaide. That's a patchy fix - I don't get why GUI didn't work, and I don't get why Sydney cellular network pretends it's Adelaide - but at least, it's consistent. Feb 26 22:38:24 it's quite possible the symlink (if there's any, even) points to one particular file statically and when TZ gets changed by maemo stuff then the *content* of the file gets changed Feb 26 22:38:35 or maybe this is total BS I just made up Feb 26 22:39:04 Nay, symlink pointed to Lord Howe, not to a statical hold-anything file Feb 26 22:39:22 Now it points to Adelaide Feb 26 22:39:57 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 2019-02-25 22:32 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin Feb 26 22:40:13 Yes, problem is, GUI changes didn't change date or tzconfig or localtime, whether they were manual or automatic Feb 26 22:40:36 GUI is probably broken. Which sounds weird Feb 26 22:41:00 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 842 2015-02-28 19:16 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin Feb 26 22:41:23 Time zones make no sense over there anyway... Feb 26 22:41:23 Brizzy ignore DST, some have half hour DST shift. o.O Feb 26 22:42:22 Aka applet-datetime Feb 26 22:44:41 Where does control panel log errors from its applets? Feb 26 22:44:56 Setting my device to automatic never seems to fix the time/date. Feb 26 22:45:56 sixwheeledbeast: does 'date' at least change its output when you change timezone in Settings? Feb 26 22:46:05 sixwheeledbeast: depends on network providing the info afaik Feb 26 22:47:11 It provides info, just, the timezone is 'Adelaide', in Sydney ;-) Feb 26 22:49:00 That's critical infrastructure. If trains go mad (say, one train has one time, another train has a different time - depending on which cellular provider is for which train, or which software the train is using; they try to run by timetable, and collide head-on) Feb 26 22:49:48 I'm pretty sure trains are not supposed to use cellphones as timer normal Feb 26 22:50:20 can't speak for Australia Feb 26 22:50:36 Hopefully not. But GPS and cellular chips are very close to each other, and using GPS for time is common. Feb 26 22:50:37 here you get lynched for doing this Feb 26 22:51:03 GPS time is pretty unrelated to cellular Feb 26 22:51:33 however maemo might actually use GPS when celular signal not available Feb 26 22:51:44 Yes, but what if GPS signal isn't locked yet?.. Or is GPS time much faster to get than GPS almanach? Feb 26 22:52:12 you get a first fix within iirc 45s Feb 26 22:52:21 even without almanach Feb 26 22:52:30 And, GPS doesn't provide a timezone. I think. Feb 26 22:52:41 no, only coords ;-D Feb 26 22:52:59 So, where do trains get timezone from? Feb 26 22:53:35 from their own signaling & communications infra? Feb 26 22:54:07 they neither use cellphones tzo talk to next station Feb 26 22:54:31 or rather, not public cellphone networks, thjey got their own Feb 26 22:54:39 Communications infra? Is it cellular, or something else (wires, radio, something)? Feb 26 22:54:57 Well, their own are probably better configured. Feb 26 22:55:31 /etc/localtime symlink changes when you change the timezone with the clock. I have 9.55 in Sydney Feb 26 22:56:01 date is the same as clock Feb 26 22:56:15 often at 400some MHz Feb 26 22:56:22 2G Feb 26 22:58:21 * DocScrutinizer05 wouldn't be surprised to learn messybox-extended or whatever the name is messing up all environment using some chenged ~/.profile or .bashrc or whatever during system boot Feb 26 22:59:36 I recommended to NEVER change the system messybox since it's used during boot incl all flaws and glitches it has Feb 26 22:59:53 nobody listened Feb 26 23:00:43 funny enough this applies only to *user* messybox, not root's Feb 26 23:01:03 automatic seemed to work and set the clock correctly this time Feb 26 23:01:29 haha Feb 26 23:01:38 takes up to 15 minutes sometimes Feb 26 23:26:04 * DocScrutinizer05 is missing a systemwide file related function tracing option Feb 26 23:27:29 like "at