**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 09 02:59:58 2019 Sep 09 08:01:16 Hello. Sep 09 08:01:35 How have everyone been? Sep 09 08:23:50 The en.wikipedia.org article on the BlackBerry Electron said that the Electron was the first use of an Intel processor by the BlackBerry brand, which I initially thought meant the Electron uses an x86 platform but it actually meant an Intel XScale ARM processor so I edited that section of the article to be clear that the Electron was the first use of an ARM processor from Intel by the BlackBerry brand. Sep 09 08:24:18 Interesting... Sep 09 08:31:32 en.wikipedia.org seems to say that the son of Nikolaus Otto, the eponym of the Otto engine and Otto cycle used by a spark-ignition engine, was one of the founders of BMW. Sep 09 08:35:16 It just occurred (spelling?) to me that, if Microsoft has reconfigured their public Web site so that it can no longer be accessed by Internet Explorer 8 on Windows XP, then someone who is still using Windows XP and has IE as their default Web browser can presumably no longer access the page on the Microsoft public Web site about the end of support for Windows XP and trying to persuade the user to upgrade to a newer version of Windows. Sep 09 08:37:40 Well, it is outdated; Technology advances, there's some other browsers that are unable to access microsoft websites for instance, and IE8 also is unable to access some popular sites too, brolin_empey Sep 09 08:41:51 I realise that but it seems strange in a way because, if I recall correctly, the update Microsoft pushed to Windows XP users about the end of support for Windows XP in 2014 installed something that opens a page on the Microsoft public Web site, which implies that a goal of pushing this update was to have Windows XP users read this Web page, but now Windows XP users would presumably no longer be able to read said Web page unless they have a third-party/non- Sep 09 08:41:51 Microsoft Web browser. Sep 09 08:44:22 Because Internet Explorer 8 is Outdated technology. Microsoft moved forward like everyone else Sep 09 08:54:12 It seems to me that services that require HTTPS, like countries such as the PRC that censor the Internet connection of the country, make the World Wide Web not universal and not worldwide in practice because requiring HTTPS breaks forward compatibility with old client software, such as a GUI Web browser from 1994, which predates many now common Web technologies such as JavaScript and CSS and even HTML tables, that can still access current Web sites using Sep 09 08:54:12 HTTP when using an HTTP proxy such as http10proxy.pl from jwz. The Web was intentionally designed with both backward compatibility and forward compatibility in mind but requiring HTTPS seems to break forward compatibility. Sep 09 09:01:40 By comparison, a Nokia 1011 from 1992 can still function on a 900-MHz GSM network in 2019 if you are still able to power the computer and a push-button wired POTS corded telephone from 1980 with an acoustic bell instead of an electronic tone generator, which uses electronics but is not a computer, can still function on the PSTN in 2019. Sep 09 09:04:36 I meant that the POTS telephone from 1980 uses electronics but is not a computer. Word order is annoying when writing long sentences in English, especially when editing the sentence after initially writing it. Sep 09 09:08:59 Vajb: purple-protocol-telegram 1.4.1-1 is broken? What does not work exactly is it only this server.tglpub file? Sep 09 09:10:28 I guess requiring HTTPS is analogous to requiring tone dialing and the HTTP user agents that lack HTTPS support are analogous to the telephones that only support pulse dialing although apparently an adapter that converts the pulse dialing to tone dialing was commercially available. Sep 09 09:11:43 I guess CDMA2000 equipment in Canada is now becoming electronic waste. Sep 09 09:13:14 Vajb: Halftux - it seems to be working for me Sep 09 09:14:37 yes it's working. i can write messages and receive Sep 09 09:15:47 hmm ok maybe some other function like encryption does not work? Sep 09 09:16:42 secret chat? Sep 09 09:17:06 yes Sep 09 09:17:48 it is the public key Sep 09 09:18:03 just tried to initiate one with my sister. i'm able to send her. will see if she replies Sep 09 10:02:38 Halftux: interesting .. she receives my texts, but i don't see her replies. when i write her again, it shows her that i've read her messages, but nothing shows in pidgin Sep 09 10:06:50 sicelo: ok I see Sep 09 10:07:29 sicelo: That happens with the messenger.com Web version of Facebook Messenger too when the software malfunctions. The client state of the application becomes outdated and inconsistent with the server state until the page is manually reloaded in the Web browser. Sep 09 10:10:05 Speaking of Web browsers, I have new email from Vivaldi Technologies saying that Vivaldi Beta for Android is released. Sep 09 10:17:11 Juesto: You can argue that HTTP cookies are outdated technology because the problem for which they were originally created to solve can now be solved without using HTTP cookies. Sep 09 10:27:13 Or maybe even that the ARM architecture is outdated technology because modern x86 processors use RISC too. ;-) Sep 09 10:28:40 Well, not outdated but maybe less necessary now. Sep 09 10:30:17 That is one of those words that I seem to have never learned to correctly spell without using a spell checker. Sep 09 10:35:09 purple-protocol-telegram doesn't use server.tglpub anymore see: https://github.com/majn/telegram-purple/commit/53c92303a274f08bd608abdc9ba0b23b9fde15be Sep 09 10:36:14 sicelo: thx for testing there is a new version 1.4.2 maybe I will pack it in the evening but don't know if it will fixes this issue Sep 09 10:49:56 sure. ping me when it's ready for testing Sep 09 10:53:57 Halftux: yes. It whines about that missing file and refuses to log in to network Sep 09 11:16:58 Vajb: are you sure the package installed correct? Because this file is not needed anymore. Sep 09 11:18:18 sicelo: do you have in "/etc/telegram-purple/" this "server.tglpub" Sep 09 11:28:19 nop Sep 09 11:28:34 that directory is empty Sep 09 11:28:36 Halftux: I installed via ham and reinstalled via apt. No difference Sep 09 11:29:31 for me the directory is empty too Sep 09 11:30:22 Vajb: so you cannot talk to anyone with telegram? Sep 09 11:31:24 sicelo: I can't sign in even Sep 09 11:31:45 odd Sep 09 11:32:07 annoying too Sep 09 11:33:45 network problems perhaps? telegram seems to maintain reasonably good backward compatibility. even the old telegram-cli is still working on n900. just tested Sep 09 11:34:38 well, irc and facebook chat are working properly + I can brovse internet Sep 09 11:34:48 browse* Sep 09 11:37:51 did you just update telegram plugin and it worked? Sep 09 11:38:58 was there an updated? Sep 09 11:39:34 i've had this 1.4.1-1 for a long time, and yes, it worked first try Sep 09 11:39:57 ham showed me that update Sep 09 11:40:19 where do you get the message about server.tglpub? Sep 09 11:41:08 pidgin pops it when I try to sign in Sep 09 11:43:03 maybe remove any old configs for the telegram account and start it all over Sep 09 11:44:10 maybe. Was there some password thing or it just sends me sms for confirmation? I forgot... Sep 09 11:44:44 should send sms, or if you have the account signed into elsewhere, it will send a message to that other instance Sep 09 11:45:38 ok. Probably I can't test this 'till tomorrow Sep 09 12:12:22 no difference Sep 09 12:12:53 I removed telegram plugin and deleted all the folders related to it Sep 09 12:13:18 restarted pidgin and made sure telegram is gone Sep 09 12:14:27 installed it and as soon as I set up account it pops out message about missing .tglpub file Sep 09 12:16:50 I guess that's all I can do Sep 09 12:21:15 try installing the deb from tmo .. maybe the problme is with the version in repos? dunno Sep 09 12:21:45 but i've also removed my telegram account entirely, and was able to re-add it without any issue Sep 09 12:22:55 umm which deb? Sep 09 12:23:04 ah that file from there Sep 09 12:25:33 i purged it from apt and it says that libwebp is nolonger needed Sep 09 12:26:15 should I remove it? Sep 09 12:33:10 i wouldn't remove it. you'll need it installed anyway when yoyu reinstall telegram-purple Sep 09 12:35:22 ok Sep 09 12:35:44 i'll download the deb then Sep 09 13:03:38 When I connect a Nokia brand of AC to microUSB power supply (with fixed cord with microUSB plug) to the LG G5 using a microUSB to USB Type C adapter, the screen on the G5 comes on but the G5 does not show that the battery is charging even though the battery was reported as being below 100% charged before I connected the Nokia power supply. When I connect a Samsung brand of AC to USB power supply with a full-size USB Type A socket, using a full-size USB Type Sep 09 13:03:38 A plug to microUSB plug cable with the same microUSB to USB Type C adapter, the screen on the G5 comes on and shows that the battery is charging. What is the relevant difference between these two USB power supplies? Sep 09 13:05:31 i'm interested in the the answer to that as well Sep 09 13:07:41 Is it that the Samsung power supply supports Qualcomm Quick Charge, which is used by the G5, but the Nokia power supply does not (and maybe even predates the Qualcomm Quick Charge standard)? Sep 09 13:12:39 can't install the deb from maemo.org Sep 09 13:13:01 missing dependency libssl1.1 which cannot be installed Sep 09 13:13:35 I guess not because the cheap 12 VDC vehicle power to full-size USB Type A socket adapter I use in my car charges the G5 even though this power adapter does not support Qualcomm Quick Charge as far as I know but I use a different model of USB cable in my car so I should try using that same model of USB cable in my office with the 120 VAC to USB power supplies. Sep 09 13:16:44 What is this cheap power adapter I use in my car? Just a linear 12 VDC to 5 VDC power supply? Or is it actually a switching power supply? Or are these things I am listing only used for AC to DC power supplies and something else is used in DC to DC power supplies? Sep 09 13:17:26 Vajb: install libssl1.1 from the repos Sep 09 13:21:01 It it just a regulator like a drive uses to reduce the 5 VDC from the power supply in an x86 computer to 3.3 VDC or lower? Is that still categorised as a linear power supply? Linear regulator? I do not know this stuff well enough to be certain even though I work in the electronics/embedded computer industry. Sep 09 13:26:05 Vajb: I think libssl1.1 is in community-devel Sep 09 13:28:05 So there is probably a problem with the old openssl deb on tmo is compiled with cssu environment Sep 09 13:46:40 What I said I should do does not make sense because the Nokia brand of power supply has a fixed cord so I cannot try using it with a different USB cable. The model of USB cable that I use in my car, not the same cable, though, seems to behave the same as the previous USB cable with the Samsung brand of power supply and the G5 but that does not really matter because that functioned as expected with the original cable and adapter. Sep 09 14:52:24 "You should be able to dial a PPPoE connection from the ethernet port (or bring an alternate CE device for doing that)." ... what does CE mean in that sentence? Sep 09 14:54:35 Consumer Equipment maybe? Sep 09 15:35:53 Maybe a mistyping of CPE = Customer Premises Equipment? Sep 09 15:43:37 here's a screenshot of the whole thing, https://paste.pics/783706b3cfd44b38d046a41ce368a683 Sep 09 16:02:50 what is community-devel repo? Sep 09 16:03:43 I have all the repo's from Doc's repo script, but I don't have ssl1.1 Sep 09 16:33:55 Vajb: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/o/openssl/ Sep 09 16:34:52 be careful with cssu-devel maybe try to install libssl1.1 with dpkg -i Sep 09 17:12:01 Halftux: I relocated your genwall wiki page, feel free to expand it if you wish. Sep 09 17:12:26 http://wiki.maemo.org/Genwall Sep 09 17:31:38 ok, installed libssl1.1 and telegram. Same failure message when I try to enable account Sep 09 17:31:57 sixwheeledbeast: ok thx but I guess I will need my time so it will take some days Sep 09 17:32:00 gonna purge telegram once more and clean it from pidgoin Sep 09 17:33:33 Halftux: That's fine. If you need any help let me know. Packages can have there own page "namespace", makes it easier to find on the wiki. Sep 09 17:33:37 So is this libssl1.1 an updated ssl? I missed the context. Sep 09 17:34:38 Or you guys just helping Vajb get telegram working? Sep 09 17:35:05 helping for the new purple telegram Sep 09 17:35:24 ah, I see. Sep 09 17:36:23 ..and it depends on the latest cssu-devel libssl Sep 09 17:37:43 it installs fine with dpkg -i, but problem persists Sep 09 17:37:50 yeah, not ready to go cssu dev on my main phone. And my tester is down-ish. Still works but the magnet switch is dead. Sep 09 17:37:56 so still can't use my telegram Sep 09 17:38:53 Vajb: maybe it is some kind of fallback because something is different on your system Sep 09 17:39:00 was it working fine before? Sep 09 17:39:20 it was working fine before Sep 09 17:39:47 then I fired up ham and it prompted me of update, which turned things to south Sep 09 17:39:52 And you can't restore from a back up. then block the updates the messed it up? Sep 09 17:40:23 I use backup-menu for stuff like this. Sep 09 17:40:27 apt-cache policy only shows one version of telegram for me Sep 09 17:40:48 Vajb: we can try to copy the missing file maybe then it works Sep 09 17:41:46 Vajb you never use FAM for installing? Sep 09 17:42:24 nope, i use ham Sep 09 17:42:37 fam is said to be breaking system Sep 09 17:42:39 Vajb: pidgin -d may give you a clue ... disable all other accounts you may have in pidgin Sep 09 17:44:16 Vajb, really interesting I've never really had a problem. Only use HAM for deb sometimes and cssu. Everything else FAM. But doesn't matter since this is not your concern. Sep 09 17:45:09 xmn: he is doing good it was uploaded by me to extras-devel Sep 09 17:45:21 The only think I would suggest is backup-menu or something else to beable to restore your system when thing like this happen. Sadly I can't really help you more. Sep 09 17:46:09 Halftux I see. I'll shut my mouth now :P, I jump into the middle of a conversation.. lol Sep 09 17:55:06 20:53:48) prpl-telegram: trying global pubkey at /etc/telegram-purple/server.tglpub Sep 09 17:55:10 (20:53:48) prpl-telegram: trying local pubkey at /home/user/.purple/telegram-purple/server.tglpub Sep 09 17:55:12 (20:53:48) prpl-telegram: both didn't work. abort. Sep 09 17:55:14 pidgin -d Sep 09 17:55:49 removed account, removed account from .xml file. Reinstalled, but no Sep 09 17:57:28 thx for trying to help. Im off now. Sep 09 17:59:55 Vajb: ok bb will put for you the old file to my homepage Sep 09 21:48:26 brolin_empey: >>a push-button wired POTS corded telephone from 1980 with an acoustic bell instead of an electronic tone generator, which uses electronics but is not a computer, can still function on the PSTN in 2019.<< afaik all PSTN analog lines anywhere (getting fewer by the day) are supposed and usually do acept even pulse dialing as found in a rotary dial PSTN phone from say 1950 Sep 09 21:50:17 hey joe Sep 09 21:51:45 ~FAM Sep 09 21:51:45 well, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU), or actually for anything since ~speedyHAM. It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. In short, it's been identified as source of system corruption and thus deprecated, or see ~hamvsfam Sep 09 21:52:33 ~hamvsfam Sep 09 21:52:33 somebody said hamvsfam was https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-10-28.log.html#t2013-10-28T10:44:33, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93227 Sep 09 21:52:50 ~speedyHAM Sep 09 21:52:50 hmm... speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU. Sep 09 21:53:25 Huh Sep 09 21:54:05 ~botsnack Sep 09 21:54:05 DocScrutinizer05: :) Sep 09 21:54:25 wasn't aware of speedyHAM! will have a look, thx! Sep 09 21:54:32 yw Sep 09 21:54:44 ~cssu Sep 09 21:54:45 rumour has it, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) Sep 09 22:06:30 where do I find speedyHAM? Sep 09 22:10:43 xmn: It is part of CSSU as it was mentioned. Sep 09 22:12:43 ah, I missed that somehow. So currently part or in an upcoming release. I'm running 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo12 testing Sep 09 22:16:34 getting warmer :D, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1425997&postcount=24 Sep 09 22:17:46 or am I just missing the boat, is the built in HAM in cssu speedyHAM? Sep 09 22:19:04 yes Sep 09 22:19:59 ah, I see that's would be why I didn't hear about it as a separate install. Sep 09 22:20:19 Thx guys for the knowledge. Sep 09 22:23:05 yw, that's why we're here Sep 09 22:23:57 :) Sep 09 22:24:50 ~literal speedyHAM Sep 09 22:24:50 "speedyham" is "30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU." Sep 09 22:25:45 infobot: no, speedyHAM is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU replacing the original Hildon application Manager there Sep 09 22:25:46 DocScrutinizer05: okay Sep 09 22:26:07 infobot: no, speedyHAM is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in ~CSSU replacing the original Hildon application Manager there Sep 09 22:26:07 DocScrutinizer05: okay Sep 09 22:26:17 ~speedyham Sep 09 22:26:18 from memory, speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in ~CSSU replacing the original Hildon application Manager there Sep 09 22:26:36 Hmm Sep 09 22:29:39 Juesto: ? Sep 09 22:29:54 don't agree? Sep 09 22:30:01 oh, hey just got back so yeah, there goes my interest in maemo lol Sep 09 22:30:06 yeah, thats better actually Sep 09 22:32:17 that wording does make more sense from someone who's not following all the changes. Sep 09 22:32:29 Indeed Sep 09 22:32:30 "now included in ~CSSU replacing the original Hildon application Manager there" Sep 09 22:32:41 thank for that change! Sep 09 22:32:51 *thanks Sep 09 22:34:55 >>push-button wired POTS corded telephone from 1980 with an acoustic bell instead of an electronic tone generator<< intriguing smartass idea :-D Sep 09 22:37:12 did you know infobot also known as apt, thanks to which we got all that nice "expert system" Sep 09 22:37:21 thanks apt Sep 09 22:37:21 no worries, DocScrutinizer05 Sep 09 22:37:53 lol Sep 09 22:39:54 let's try some leete aptness Sep 09 22:40:07 ~dfind dbus Sep 09 22:40:23 ugh Sep 09 22:40:27 [10 Sep 2019 00:40:08] Updating debian files... please wait. Sep 09 22:40:28 [10 Sep 2019 00:40:13] failed. Sep 09 22:41:00 haha, should have stopped while ahead ... lol Sep 09 22:41:50 there's a command to tell apt/infobot _which_ debian release to update and search Sep 09 22:42:13 I never use it so... no idea about the details Sep 09 22:42:45 heh, love all the useful bot stuff. Though I never use them much. Sep 09 22:43:25 ~+help ddesc Sep 09 22:43:25  Desc: Search the Description: lines in Debian packages Sep 09 22:43:26  Usage: ddesc [dist] Sep 09 22:43:26 Example: ddesc mule Sep 09 22:43:26 Example: ddesc mule potato Sep 09 22:43:56 ~query Sep 09 22:43:56 talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) Sep 09 22:44:48 lol Sep 09 22:46:06 lol Sep 09 22:46:21 a pity I can't use ~die like other normal users ;-D She takes my word literally Sep 09 22:47:23 the bot has quite some "Eliza" qualities ;-D Sep 09 22:47:49 ~attack xmn Sep 09 22:47:50 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing xmn Sep 09 22:48:11 cya! Sep 09 22:48:19 haha, xman runs away Sep 09 22:48:33 see yah **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 10 02:59:57 2019