**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 22 03:00:24 2019 Oct 22 09:36:44 Haha, why use the MySQL monitor program when you can simply grep the directory containing the database and use vim to search the file containing the table in the database? Oct 22 12:09:13 speaking of battery Oct 22 12:09:35 is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? Oct 22 12:34:48 I'd say it's not really unexpected :) Oct 22 12:34:48 mine does heat up when tethering (usb) for a significant amount of time Oct 22 12:34:48 (for instance) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 22 12:35:16 2019 Oct 22 16:48:15 Would depend on the load and condition of the battery Oct 22 18:34:14 01:09:35 < CatButts> is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? Oct 22 18:34:34 You always expect the heat output to be equal to power consumption. Oct 22 18:35:02 If the phone is using 5 W of power, that means it's producing 5 W of heat. Oct 22 18:35:05 what about energy changed into other energy than thermal? Oct 22 18:35:45 like what? Oct 22 18:35:57 I have no idea how to quantify wattage to physical heat sensation Oct 22 18:35:59 you know, thermal is tiny part of em spectrum Oct 22 18:36:12 thermal is basically everything that a phone outputs. Oct 22 18:36:22 light? wireless? Oct 22 18:36:25 maybe I need a lookup table Oct 22 18:36:29 ha ha Oct 22 18:36:31 it's outside thermal range Oct 22 18:37:13 It turns into heat eventually. Oct 22 18:37:22 nope. Oct 22 18:37:48 unless some receiver is turning it into kinetic energy or something, it's going to be heating something up. Oct 22 18:38:05 i think we are talking two different physics realities Oct 22 18:38:50 Sure, it's not the sort of heat that CatButts is talking about (it doesn't necessarily heat up the device) Oct 22 18:39:19 but .. light makes things hot Oct 22 18:39:43 nope Oct 22 18:39:50 No? Oct 22 18:40:12 you are thinking about thermal part of em spectrum Oct 22 18:41:18 The reason you'd consider only part of the spectrum to be thermal is because most matter is transparent to the rest of it. Oct 22 18:41:25 yup Oct 22 18:41:32 mostly Oct 22 18:41:34 but it's never completely transparent. Oct 22 18:41:36 not not entirely Oct 22 18:42:33 engineers like to approximate energy transfers as heat only Oct 22 18:42:40 but it's not the whole picture Oct 22 18:44:19 anyway, from Wikipedia: Oct 22 18:44:20 > Thermal radiation, also known as heat, is the emission of electromagnetic waves from all matter that has a temperature greater than absolute zero. Oct 22 18:45:07 I am under impression that heat radiation sits on lowest end of IR Oct 22 18:46:38 All EM radiation is heat. It's just a question of how likely it is for that radiation to transfer the heat to the phone body, or the air around it, or your hand, etc. Oct 22 18:47:16 i wonder if TDP calculations include whole EM radiation or just part Oct 22 18:47:39 I think those usually apply to local areas, like the CPU. Oct 22 18:47:52 part of EM spectrum, that is Oct 22 18:51:12 When it comes to processors ICs etc as far as I was aware most of that turns into heat. Oct 22 18:51:46 maybe my 'heat' definition wasnt proper then. oh well Oct 22 18:51:55 always nice to remember those things up Oct 22 18:58:23 with TDP, I think the point is about how much heat can be transferred (dissipated) through a particular point. Oct 22 18:58:56 since even if you have a massive heatsink/fan, the heat (measured in W) still goes through the CPU. Oct 22 19:00:42 i suspect that it still takes only thermal (as in human heat definition) in calculations because rest escapes freely Oct 22 19:05:05 I always believed TDP was one of those "funny" values where you rate things in the technically incorrect scale due to legacy reasons Oct 22 19:05:24 swb: also marketing Oct 22 19:05:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power Oct 22 19:05:32 funny story Oct 22 19:05:36 a bit like measuring light fittings in wattage instead of lumens Oct 22 19:06:51 I know that AMD and Intels TDP's are massively different Oct 22 19:07:57 citing cpt. jack: 'more what you'd call a guidelines than actual rules' Oct 22 19:07:58 :) Oct 22 19:10:00 I have no issue with how any scale is invented as long as it's consistent, they where all invented at some point. Oct 22 19:10:10 'were' Oct 22 19:10:23 #grammer Oct 22 19:10:27 but some scales are based on immovable physical points Oct 22 19:10:46 than just human subjective finger pointing Oct 22 19:10:59 swb: #englishlife Oct 22 19:11:21 someone had to decide where those scales where numbered from Oct 22 19:11:37 'were' Oct 22 19:11:46 Imagine if the hottest Kelvin was 0 Oct 22 19:12:46 s/w/wh/g :P Oct 22 19:13:15 whas? Oct 22 19:13:16 ;) Oct 22 19:13:43 exactly is the same ;) Oct 22 19:15:14 ish? :P Oct 22 19:15:27 People get on there high horse about the metric system being superior but a lot of times it can be less practical Oct 22 19:16:18 'their' ? Oct 22 19:17:01 practical doesnt equal proper. it can help in some situations, sure, but are not universal Oct 22 19:17:09 *is not Oct 22 19:17:20 ./join #spelling Oct 22 19:17:36 it's like optimization working for some part of the code, but being slower in general use Oct 22 19:17:39 what do you define as proper? Oct 22 19:17:41 sixwheeledbeast: Well. There is such a thing as negative temperatures, and they are hotter than any positive one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature Oct 22 19:18:29 So... 0K isn't the coldest. I hope you enjoy the confusion *evil grin* Oct 22 19:18:32 swb: ockham rule? or however it was spelled Oct 22 19:19:16 an example of why fixed scales can be flawed. Oct 22 19:19:50 swb: nah, that's just our flawed perception of reality Oct 22 19:20:11 the more we know/see, the better the scales Oct 22 19:22:18 As I say with things like these it doesn't matter as long as everyone is on the same page. 1 inch, 1 furlong, 1 millimeter. Not like 90W TDP on different chips is my point Oct 22 19:22:47 sure, but imperial is very flawed when it comes to little/big values Oct 22 19:23:04 as is metric Oct 22 19:23:05 ie. when you go out of human-proximity range Oct 22 19:23:13 nope Oct 22 19:23:41 it's relative to the scale of the measurement. Oct 22 19:24:10 imagine code required to convert between all length units in imperial Oct 22 19:24:29 it's just overcomplicated Oct 22 19:24:36 ockham rule. Oct 22 19:24:42 The whole point of imperial measurements is each one has an intended purpose. Oct 22 19:25:00 sure, as i've said, local optimizations Oct 22 19:25:07 but failure in generalization Oct 22 19:25:57 It's not a one size fits all thing. If "metric" wasn't invented then you would make another "yardstick" for your even bigger measurement. Oct 22 19:26:13 biggest inefficiency of metric is being 10 based Oct 22 19:26:29 I disagree with that too Oct 22 19:26:33 KotCzarny: how so?? Oct 22 19:26:47 because you then have to convert binary to decimal Oct 22 19:26:54 ebcdic? Oct 22 19:26:55 :> Oct 22 19:27:14 early IT was funny Oct 22 19:27:15 You can divide 10 by a lot less numbers than you can say 12 or 16 Oct 22 19:27:29 see? another human perception Oct 22 19:27:31 or 60. 360 Oct 22 19:27:34 binary ftw. Oct 22 19:27:43 Babylonian maths ftw *g* Oct 22 19:28:47 a computer is a tool, use the best tool for the job Oct 22 19:29:07 computer is application of theory in practice Oct 22 19:29:17 and effectively packing numbers is binary based Oct 22 19:29:32 not 10th, not 12 Oct 22 19:30:26 it's just maths, not human perception Oct 22 19:30:42 for humans you can add some code to display Oct 22 19:31:04 if we had 4 fingers instead of 5, it would be much more effective Oct 22 19:31:05 oh you said inefficiency. I am loosing my marbles... Oct 22 19:32:12 using base2 means you need more figures making it less human friendly. Oct 22 19:32:51 * sixwheeledbeast imagines a base2 measuring tape... Oct 22 19:34:02 really, if we all grew up with 4 fingers on each hand, you would grok binary/octa with mothers milk Oct 22 19:35:33 On the other side, binary… may be just a nowadays computers perspective so I am not sure whether it should be treated as a priority Oct 22 19:36:46 it's basic math, with 2 definite states as a base Oct 22 19:38:30 Yeah, that's also true. Those two states are probably the easiest to differ between them at general level. Oct 22 19:40:00 * mp107 wonders about alien's perspective ;) Oct 22 19:40:08 math is universal Oct 22 19:40:13 that's the trick Oct 22 19:40:19 human perception is not Oct 22 19:40:37 physics is applied math in this particular universe Oct 22 19:40:39 :) Oct 22 19:43:47 with particular constraints and scales. Oct 22 19:44:40 Well I have 4 fingers on each hand so .... Oct 22 19:45:05 but you live in a 10 fingers world. :) Oct 22 19:45:10 anyway, nite. Oct 22 19:45:18 gn Oct 22 19:46:01 10 fingers world can use the metric system if that makes them feel at home. Oct 22 19:47:11 I'll just use the most convenient scale at the time of measurement. Oct 22 21:49:23 My hand has 5 fingers, but 32 states: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15eyfRPhuUU-z3cPU64IK-ybP54SZrgxa/view **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 23 02:59:58 2019