**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 06 02:59:57 2020 Feb 06 04:17:15 Maxdamantus: I have heated up the Fxtec Pro1 (against laptop's cooling vent), it's not exactly iron hot but still quite warm. Still no sign of switching on. And no idea how to disassemble that, to have a look at the battery. I mean, two screws at the keyboard are easy, but taking them out doesn't help any. Feb 06 04:39:23 And info@fxtec.com haven't replied yet to email sent out 7 hours ago. I know, I know, timezones, and many other things to do... Feb 06 05:34:06 Maxdamantus: I did not mean file system compatibility, I meant whether the device (computer) is able to use an SD card at all. For example, the TSCM-283 (Touch Screen Computer Module using Freescale i.MX 283 processor) from my company will not boot (using the Freescale boot loader) from a <=2-GB SD card but it will boot from a 4-GB SD card even if the 4-GB card is a raw clone of a 2-GB card with the second half of the card unused. I do not know if a <=2-GB Feb 06 05:34:06 card can be used after the OS using a Linux kernel (GNU+Linux or Android) is running, would have to check. As far as I know, I do not use exFAT for anything. Feb 06 05:35:21 brolin_empey: if you do a raw clone of a 4GB card to a 2GB card, then that resulting image is essentially corrupt. Feb 06 05:35:48 brolin_empey: since at the very least, unless you fix the partition table, the partition table is going to be pointing outside of the device. Feb 06 05:36:44 I suspect Linux will probably allow it to be mounted anyway, but there's a pretty good chance that whatever bootloader is used won't. Feb 06 05:38:01 Maxdamantus: I never mentioned cloning a larger-capacity medium onto a smaller-capacity medium. I mentioned cloning a 2-GB SD card onto a 4-GB SD card, which results in a 4-GB card with only, at most, the first 2-GB of the card used. Feb 06 05:38:29 brolin_empey: so you mean it boots from a 2GB card, but not a 4GB card? Feb 06 05:39:50 brolin_empey: or you mean you prepared an image by doing your own partitioning and filesystem formatting on a 2GB card, then transferred that to a 4GB card? Feb 06 05:41:52 Maxdamantus: No, I mean exactly what I have said at least twice by now: it boots from a 4-GB card but not from a 2-GB card because it supports SDHC but not SDSC because the person who did the software for this platform never took the time to add support for SDSC because the cost of a >=4-GB SD card is too low to justify the cost of adding support for <=2-GB SD cards. Please carefully read my messages, which I usually proofread and correct as necessary Feb 06 05:41:52 before sending, so that I do not have to keep repeating myself. Feb 06 05:42:45 Okay, well I suspect that analysis is wrong. Feb 06 05:42:57 I obviously can't debug that myself though. Feb 06 05:43:52 even if it is correct, it's only an issue in the software that actually talks to the card (ie, at the level of Linux, or a bootloader or something), not something to do with the hardware. Feb 06 05:45:57 to be clear though, if you start Feb 06 05:46:02 er Feb 06 05:46:56 You doubt my knowledge and experience of the product of the company of my family, by whom I have been employed for fourteen years this month? Feb 06 05:47:18 to be clear though, if you start with a provided 4GB image, then do `cat mmc.img >/dev/mmcblk0` to write to the 2GB card then `cat /dev/mmcblk0 >/dev/mmcblk1` to write to the 4GB card, the 2GB card is likely to be considered corrupt even though the 4GB might not be. Feb 06 05:48:17 I doubt your level of certainty. Feb 06 05:48:47 I also work in technology (as a "software engineer"), and people make incorrect analyses all the time. Feb 06 05:49:25 I wouldn't claim absolute certainty about something, but I can certainly doubt other people's claims. Feb 06 05:50:56 I imagine if there is an issue with compatibility of that 2GB card with their software, there are probably also compatibility with other 4GB cards. Feb 06 05:51:42 since it probably just means that there are some parameters that are incorrectly hardcoded (eg, the SD card protocol has something to do with block sizes, which can vary across cards). Feb 06 05:53:30 in fact, I'd be surprised if it would even be acceptable by the consortium to have a device that supports SDHC cards but not SDSC cards. Feb 06 05:55:50 I do not know the specifics but different storage capacities of SD cards are not all the same at the low-level software, which is why, in practice, some devices (computers) only work with certain ranges of storage capacities of SD cards. I think SmartMedia has a similar issue but the largest SmartMedia card produced is only 128 MB but some things, such as the Epson PhotoPC 550 digital still camera and the DOS driver for the FlashPath for SmartMedia, only Feb 06 05:55:50 work with smaller capacity cards because a software change is required to support the larger capacity cards that were not available during the development of the product that does not support the larger capacity cards. Feb 06 05:56:08 in any case, this is fairly irrelevant to the point I was making last night, which is that the hardware doesn't care about SDSC vs. SDHC vs. SDXC vs. SDUC. If anything cares about it, it's only the software. Feb 06 05:57:47 The Windows driver for the FlashPath for SmartMedia works with a 128-MB card. Feb 06 06:02:40 I do not think I ever said that the limitation is due to hardware but the reality is that some devices are stuck with old software that does not support all storage capacities of SD cards. Feb 06 06:07:40 I think my original point is that it is possible that some new products no longer support <=2-GB SD cards because the user/customer is expected to no longer be using such small capacity cards by now. I guess this is less likely for a consumer product such as the Fxtec Pro1 but the TSCM-283 and maybe other computer platforms based upon the i.MX 283 that also use the Freescale boot loader do not support <=2-GB SD cards. At least they cannot boot from a <=2- Feb 06 06:07:40 GB card but they may still be able to use a <=2-GB card while the OS is running if the OS supports <=2-GB cards. Feb 06 06:17:47 Reportedly at least one model of USB 3.5-inch High-density flexible disc drive does not support Double-Density discs, for maybe the same reason as I mentioned with the <=2-GB SD cards: because DD discs were uncommon in the IBM PC compatible world even by the end of the 1990s. Feb 06 06:19:42 If I had a 2GB microSD card, I'd be inclined to try it out on my Kobo Clara HD. Feb 06 06:20:28 Might be worth mentioning though that my Kobo Clara HD came with an 8 GB microSD card (SDHC), and I replaced it with a 128 GB microSD card (SDXC) with no issues. Feb 06 06:21:02 (Kobo Clara HD is also based on some i.MX Freescale thing) Feb 06 06:22:54 (the SD card is probably not really intended to be replaced, since afaict, they don't offer any support for loading the OS onto a new SD card; you just have to copy it over yourself or obtain an image from someone else) Feb 06 06:23:25 i.MX 2xx is old. i.MX is up to at least 8 by now as far as I know. The TSCM-283 was originally released in 2011, still uses a Linux 2.6.x kernel, not even a 3.x kernel. Feb 06 06:23:43 Ah, okay. Feb 06 06:24:53 I have a Kobo Vox from 2011 but I do not remember if it has an SD card connector nor which SoC it uses. It is at my home but I am currently at my office. Last I checked, some fool on en.wikipedia.org redirected the Kobo Vox article to the Kobo Arc article even though they are two different models of computers. Feb 06 06:26:42 My Vox runs Android 2.3.x (Gingerbread), which I rooted with Gingerbreak. Feb 06 06:27:59 It has Winamp for Android, in which I lost interest when I discovered it does not support module music formats like Winamp for Windows. Feb 06 06:30:10 I mean Winamp for Windows includes an input plug-in to play module music formats but Winamp for Android does not include support for playing module music formats and maybe does not even support plug-ins at all? Feb 06 06:32:39 i.MX 283 is only ARMv5, not ARMv7. Feb 06 06:37:06 maxd: sdcards and devices can be finicky Feb 06 06:38:27 i've have a bunch of 1/2/4gb sdcards and some of them boot fine and some dont (on my opi) Feb 06 06:38:33 KotCzarny: possibly, but I doubt it has much to do with SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC, and to the extent that it is finnicky, it's almost certainly to do with software rather than hardware, so if you're able to run decent software, there shouldn't be an issue. Feb 06 06:38:42 nah Feb 06 06:38:59 same image, just device doesnt boot with some of them Feb 06 06:39:24 That means it's not an issue of SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC. Feb 06 06:39:41 i suspect there are differences in the sd standard that do get or dont get implemented by controller Feb 06 06:39:45 speed/modes etc Feb 06 06:39:53 Since you're presumably saying that out of a mix of 1 and 2 GB cards (which are all SDSC), some work and some don't. Feb 06 06:39:55 i didnt investigate, usually just grab one that works Feb 06 06:40:21 and with h3droid sometimes people even report 4 or 8gb cards not booting Feb 06 06:41:29 my bet is on the speed/modes/voltages/quirkiness, you know, general compatibility of the card and the reader Feb 06 06:42:18 This is obviously just due to bugs in implementation though, not about compatibility as determined by the SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC labels. Feb 06 06:42:26 yup Feb 06 06:42:53 but it's not something fixable by softwar, as bootloader is most often contained as a r/o chunk in soc Feb 06 06:43:13 s/bootloader/boot0 code/ Feb 06 06:43:13 KotCzarny meant: but it's not something fixable by softwar, as boot0 code is most often contained as a r/o chunk in soc Feb 06 13:23:35 clock speed maybe Feb 06 13:24:17 then of course partitioning Feb 06 13:24:37 filesystem... well you said it's same image, so... Feb 06 18:56:22 KotCzarny: still much better than phones which snap to half when sit with them in the pocket ;p Feb 06 19:00:23 i never carry my phone in small pockets Feb 06 19:00:27 usually in backpack Feb 06 19:27:42 KotCzarny: its kind of joking, bc for me its funny the phone could damage in pocket itself with normal usage no jumping/smashing it... Feb 06 19:28:03 well, it's physics Feb 06 19:28:09 KotCzarny: or maybe its me just chose bulletproof phones ;p Feb 06 19:28:37 forces applied, reactions from the materials etc Feb 06 19:29:12 everything can be damaged Feb 06 19:29:32 we want big smart devices, we get them Feb 06 19:29:44 but we havent evolved good storage for them (yet) Feb 06 19:30:16 KotCzarny: yea thats true, but maybe just used to threat the nails with mu phone.. Feb 06 19:30:55 KotCzarny: good old 3210 ;p Feb 06 19:31:08 and only good as a phone :P Feb 06 19:31:17 and maybe a hammer Feb 06 19:38:10 KotCzarny: good have heavy defence friend in Your pocket just in case You not know hour when You need it ^^ and this present ones phones feel so fragile in most cases... last i guess i able to feel solid of the phone body was bb9900... Feb 06 19:43:17 from current ones probly cat or black view sane choices even if s10e is powerfull them still feel so fragile... Feb 06 19:47:16 currently using some old alcatel (pop star) Feb 06 19:47:24 it's light enough not to be damaged on drops Feb 06 19:47:53 (and yeah, it fell out of my pocket in WC few times on the hard floor ;) Feb 06 19:50:39 KotCzarny: imagine drop with any current ones... personaly i have few direct screen side n900 drops where i almost was sure screen out, but not even scratch get on screen... Feb 06 19:51:31 alcatel and n900 use safect display construction Feb 06 19:52:01 screen isnt exposed as much as mainstream phones Feb 06 19:59:07 * drathir also hear some rumours about cheap linux phone which have kind of killswitches used, but cant remember where i saw that... need try to dig a bit to find it probably not sure if it not have a kickstarter campaign as well, and phone intended to be delivered w/o os... Feb 06 19:59:15 pinephone Feb 06 19:59:20 i got it yesterday Feb 06 19:59:42 just that i have to finish my other projects before i sit down and prepare some OS for it Feb 06 20:01:29 KotCzarny: that for sure will be lot of fun... Feb 06 20:01:34 yup Feb 06 20:02:21 i wonder if pali got him one Feb 06 20:08:35 KotCzarny: hope so He could play wih bootloader on the devce... also its nice step forward for more flexible mobile devices... Feb 06 20:08:55 nah, allwinner a64 is quite opensourced already by community Feb 06 20:09:18 it's one of the most open socs available Feb 06 20:09:42 i think there is even *bsd port Feb 06 20:09:51 if one fancies bsd phone Feb 06 20:11:35 KotCzarny: but librem as i remember was expensive with this one its nice approach fore more price friendly models w/o android... Feb 06 20:11:59 pp is much more open Feb 06 20:12:55 i suspect one could use it with maemo-leste as a tablet already Feb 06 20:14:40 KotCzarny: running maemo on it with phone functionality support would be interesting... Feb 06 20:15:16 phone support in linux is interesting no matter the device/distro Feb 06 20:17:10 KotCzarny: yep and often challenging as well... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 07 02:59:57 2020